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BeoSound Moment

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Millemissen
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mbolo01:

tobeyone:

But you can simply choose an album or two and let them play, you don't have to let it select the music for you. That is what I have been doing.

Talking about album playing and bug list: Gapless playback is definitively not there, hurting when listening to artists like Pink Floyd. I have escalated to B&O (I'm not the only one I guess)

That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'!

MM

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Chris
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Chris replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 4:47 PM

mbolo01:
Talking about album playing and bug list: Gapless playback is definitively not there

The boys in Struer will probably comment to your remark: If you open the album in Deezer, you can listen to it in Gapless playback.

Ahum Struer, I have the Pink Floyd albums in 24/96... Deezer not! Crying

 

"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."

Chris
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Chris replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 4:54 PM

Millemissen:
That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'!

Are you really sure, we tested it in the shop last week. But will give it another, maybe better try tomorrow.

I tagged an album as Gapless in iTunes, but after loading to the Moment it refused. Its seems more a problem of software. The album was tagged!

"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."

Raeuber
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Raeuber replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 5:00 PM
Chris:

The boys in Struer will probably comment to your remark: If you open the album in Deezer, you can listen to it in Gapless playback.

Ahum Struer, I have the Pink Floyd albums in 24/96... Deezer not!

" Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth. "

I would NEVER listen to Pink Floyd via Deezer or any other streaming service providing compressed music files, only lossless or hires or vinyl.
Puncher
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Puncher replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 5:04 PM

Millemissen:

But I must say, that I am a bit surpriced by the reactions of some of the Boworlders.

They seem to focus on their own expectations for a modern BeoSound.

They are called "customers", and B&O should concentrate on their expectations too or else they will be become mere spectators as their customers shop elsewhere!

Ban boring signatures!

mbolo01
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mbolo01 replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 5:13 PM

Millemissen:

 

That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'!

MM

Oops ... one bug less then! I'm coming from an Airplay world, so a lot to learn on the DLNA front

BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1

Raeuber
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Raeuber replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 5:23 PM
Puncher:

They are called "customers" , and B&O should concentrate on their expectations too or else they will be become mere spectators as their customers shop elsewhere!

Ban boring signatures!

I agree. And only a few CEO's know what their customers really want. One of them was Mr. Steve Jobs, but really not Tue Mantoni. Tue believes that new customers like his new Beoplay products, this might be correct. But he also believes that the old customers will also like these 'Play products' and that's his big fault (in my opinion the Moment is a Beopay product and not a sound system from B&O). The old customers are serious music listeners and don't like childish streaming boxes for background music.
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Puncher replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 5:41 PM

Raeuber:
I agree. And only a few CEO's know what their customers really want. One of them was Mr. Steve Jobs, but really not Tue Mantoni. Tue believes that new customers like his new Beoplay products, this might be correct. But he also believes that the old customers will also like these 'Play products' and that's his big fault (in my opinion the Moment is a Beopay product and not a sound system from B&O). The old customers are serious music listeners and don't like childish streaming boxes for background music.

I don't dismiss the Moodmusic features, I think they are quite novel and can have a place under certain circumstances. What I do question is the reliance on these features only, I believe they should be included on top of a comprehensive search, find and organise system, whereby any album, artist or single track can be found and played easily, with the minimum of effort or fuss, along with seamless local and cloud content integration. Only then can the product be considered a main room music system.

As this is only software there is no excuse for it not to be included.

Ban boring signatures!

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jowus replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 5:55 PM
Raeuber:

I agree. And only a few CEO's know what their customers really want. One of them was Mr. Steve Jobs, but really not Tue Mantoni. Tue believes that new customers like his new Beoplay products, this might be correct. But he also believes that the old customers will also like these 'Play products' and that's his big fault (in my opinion the Moment is a Beopay product and not a sound system from B&O). The old customers are serious music listeners and don't like childish streaming boxes for background music.

I Truly agree with you Raeuber, the Moment is more of PlayMaker than Music System. Come on now, how could they've built BS9000 and BS5 and come down to this. There must be something wrong with the Team, is like, they're not moving forward but rather backwards. I've waited one year to buy this but after seeing it, it doesn't push me to buy it. I rather use the Playmaker with an iPad. We need something serious not this "Childish Streaming Box" they should get their act together else they'll loose their Beloved Clients.
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Flere replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:01 PM
Millemissen:

That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

MM

That may be so, but since B&O has both the controller and the player in one hand in the Moment, solving the gapless play issue is just a matter of priority and whether B&O finds this important.

- Flere

smile and enjoy the moment

Paul W
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Paul W replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:05 PM

Hey Raeuber, Steve Jobs actually did not know what his customers wanted. The guy was so such an arrogant salesman that he 'told' people what they should want! He did the opposite of what we learn in marketing which is 'know your customer'. People learnt to accept his ideas and eventually fell in love with them.

Sadly Raeuber this 'older' B&O customer is a 'dying' breed - literally. Like it or not streaming is the thing. It's certainly not a 'childish' service. Only today the UK's best respected BBC DJ since John Peel, Zane Lowe left the shores of the UK to join a Management position at iTunes (streaming division). He was the guy who interviewed Paul McCartney for the BL18 launch! Whilst I prefer downloading music myself, I do stream all of my movies.

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:09 PM

Paul W:

Hey Raeuber, Steve Jobs actually did not know what his customers wanted. The guy was so such an arrogant salesman that he 'told' people what they should want! He did the opposite of what we learn in marketing which is 'know your customer'. People learnt to accept his ideas and eventually fell in love with them.

Sadly Raeuber this 'older' B&O customer is a 'dying' breed - literally. Like it or not streaming is the thing. It's certainly not a 'childish' service. Only today the UK's best respected BBC DJ since John Peel, Zane Lowe left the shores of the UK to join a Management position at iTunes (streaming division). He was the guy who interviewed Paul McCartney for the BL18 launch! Whilst I prefer downloading music myself, I do stream all of my movies.

Streaming or not, the product needs to be able to locate any particular song quickly and efficiently, I do not always want to listen to what someone else thinks I might like!

Ban boring signatures!

Paul W
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Paul W replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:10 PM

Jowus, interesting but he lies the problem. BS9000 was 20 years ago. Tue Mantani did A LOT of research when he joined B&O to find out why B&O the brand wasn't cool with todays generation. The answer was simple. The new generation of DENMARK said that they were products that their father's bought and never them. And there's your problem. Old. Boring. Has beens! They WERE NOT SELLING!!! = NO MONEY!!! Period! This is why Tue discontinued all of those old iconic to some products. 

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Paul W replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:12 PM

Too true Puncher. When I listen to music I want to choose it myself. There and then. Thats why a mood wheel is no good for me. It's like the 'shuffle' button on a CD player back in the 80s. 

Millemissen
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Puncher:

Millemissen:

But I must say, that I am a bit surpriced by the reactions of some of the Boworlders.

They seem to focus on their own expectations for a modern BeoSound.

 

They are called "customers", and B&O should concentrate on their expectations too or else they will be become mere spectators as their customers shop elsewhere!

No!

They are called: some of the costumers.

You can't please everyody - even B&O can't Stick out tongue

MM

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Mr 10Percent
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Booted from another thread........

 

I had a play with the Moment this week.

It is much smaller than I had anticipated and the physical form is much better in real world than it is from the photographs.

I share a similar view on the Moment to BB above:-

1. It is an unfinished product. It is so far behind schedule, B&O had to release it currently is.

2. Searching:- Artist search to come 2-3 updates later (after Multi-room). Otherwise, I found the BSMo very frustrating to use in search mode. With 35 million songs available on Deezer (I assume your own content will be in the 35m), it is like a very large random song player. i.e. I did not readily find an album I wanted to listen to. So I want to find Dark side of the Moon. Finding Pink was very difficult never mind Pink Floyd.  So in essence, the search function to be anything like 5% of the Beosound 5, it needs a monumental programming effort IMHO

3. Integration with legacy B&O products. ML is gone, Need a further £600 ML/NL box if you don't have a BV11/Avant Smart TV. BSMo becomes audio Master, other products (BS5, BS9000) become Option 6 Slaves.

4. The BSMo does not incorporate other B&O controls. Thus you will need the BSMo tablet and you will need the BeoR1 if you want to sit down a flick between audio and video. Thus the total integration package B&O is renowned for, is questionable from a control perspective.

5. Highly likely other wood finishes are in the pipeline.

 

Overall, I like the concept but it appears to be such an unfinished product, with the incorrect focus on Multi-Room. In my opinion, the basic search functions need drastic upgrading (BS5 on steroids), followed by BV TV/Audio Master control issue needs fixing ASAP, then Multi-Room.

 

10

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:30 PM

Millemissen:

Puncher:

Millemissen:

But I must say, that I am a bit surpriced by the reactions of some of the Boworlders.

They seem to focus on their own expectations for a modern BeoSound.

 

They are called "customers", and B&O should concentrate on their expectations too or else they will be become mere spectators as their customers shop elsewhere!

No!

They are called: some of the costumers.

You can't please everyody - even B&O can't Stick out tongue

MM

You remind me very much of TripEnglish, who also was very pro-B&O and wouldn't accept anything negative said about them, he always had to come back with something implying you were wrong, he had some sort of "insider" knowledge, and B&O knew what they were doing and would win out in the end ................................... right up until the shop he worked in went under!

Ban boring signatures!

Beobuddy
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Beobuddy replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:35 PM

Millemissen:

People in general do not want to fiddle with searching for music in a more or less well structured library - period!

They do want to hear the music, they like - at an instant!

It should be an "All in One solution". A replacement for your exsisting audiodevice.

Let the customer decide if it presses the Moodwheel to start, or to start with a specific album/artist WITHOUT the help of any extra iDevice. After that the Moodsensing comes in (or not)

Millemissen
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Flere:
Millemissen:

That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'!

MM

MM

That may be so, but since B&O has both the controller and the player in one hand in the Moment, solving the gapless play issue is just a matter of priority and whether B&O finds this important.

Please do some searching on 'gapless playback - DLNA' and you will find out, that it is not that easy.

Personally I settled with my Squeezebox/LogitechMediaServer-solution because of that issue.

I am mostly an album listener (one of the old socks like Räuber, you know). And I hate listening to an album like 'Sergent Pebber's...', the Pink Floyd albums or the Moody Blues first albums with gaps!

MM

 

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Raeuber
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Raeuber replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:38 PM
Paul W:

Too true Puncher. When I listen to music I want to choose it myself. There and then. Thats why a mood wheel is no good for me. It's like the 'shuffle' button on a CD player back in the 80s.

👍

This afternoon I listened to 'Moody Blues'. How on earth can a computer know that after this I wanted to listen to 'AC/DC'?

Or: What colour do I have to choose on mood wheel when I want to listen to 'Pink Floyd'? Turquoise like the album covers of 'Meddle' or 'Pulse'?

And yes this is for sure: To find an artist, album or song can't take more than a few seconds.

Räuber
Millemissen
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Beobuddy:

Millemissen:

People in general do not want to fiddle with searching for music in a more or less well structured library - period!

They do want to hear the music, they like - at an instant!

 

It should be an "All in One solution". A replacement for your exsisting audiodevice.

Let the customer decide if it presses the Moodwheel to start, or to start with a specific album/artist WITHOUT the help of any extra iDevice. After that the Moodsensing comes in (or not)

Just swipe up from the main screen - and do your search!

MM

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Beobuddy replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:44 PM

Then this comes in: http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/13922.aspx

You can't be serious.

Raeuber
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Raeuber replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:50 PM
Paul W:

Hey Raeuber, Steve Jobs actually did not know what his customers wanted. The guy was so such an arrogant salesman that he 'told' people what they should want! He did the opposite of what we learn in marketing which is 'know your customer'. People learnt to accept his ideas and eventually fell in love with them.

Sorry, but you are wrong. Steve Jobs DID know what customers wanted, but customers DID NOT know it until Steve Jobs presented his 'one more thing', that's a ingenious kind of marketing. Customers are not as foolish to buy a product only because anybody tells they should do so. Millions of people felt in love with an IPhone, how many people do you think will fell in love with the Moment? I guess a few hundreds...

Regards

Räuber
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jowus replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:55 PM
Paul W:

Jowus, interesting but he lies the problem. BS9000 was 20 years ago. Tue Mantani did A LOT of research when he joined B&O to find out why B&O the brand wasn't cool with todays generation. The answer was simple. The new generation of DENMARK said that they were products that their father's bought and never them. And there's your problem. Old. Boring. Has beens! They WERE NOT SELLING!!! = NO MONEY!!! Period! This is why Tue discontinued all of those old iconic to some products.

Paul, but what you seems to forget is the old generation made them millions . The reason I mention the BS 9000, if they could've made that in 20 years, how come, they can't make some extraordinary for this generation. And I bet you, Tue's new ideas are not working that's why they're having problems. He's waisting his time on unnecessary stuff. Most of the stuff on the BeoPlay are junk, except the A8, A9 and H8. The S8 speakers are waist. If he's trying to get the young generation into B&O, All they've to do is Marketing and the Right sales People. Most of the sales Guys in the Store now have no idea what they doing at the stores.
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elephant replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 6:56 PM
PhilLondon:

You have playlists for that. You are not forced to use the mood wheel or pattern play. Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons. Other apps: The Story Mouse . Grignan guide .

Using the tablet to manage playlists would be a pain if not impossible.

I would hope the App is at least as iTunes' playlist editing & tuning capabilities. Otherwise I would be constantly editing, exporting, and importing playlists .... which is not going to happen.

BeoNut since '75

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Puncher replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 7:06 PM

elephant:
PhilLondon:

 

You have playlists for that. You are not forced to use the mood wheel or pattern play. Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons. Other apps: The Story Mouse . Grignan guide .

 

 

Using the tablet to manage playlists would be a pain if not impossible.

 

 

I would hope the App is at least as iTunes' playlist editing & tuning capabilities. Otherwise I would be constantly editing, exporting, and importing playlists .... which is not going to happen.

As the Moment is, at it's heart, a tablet, there should be no need to use any other phone or tablet + app to allow extended search capabilities, it should all be possible on the Moment itself.

It needs to be as good as the best of the rest with the mood stuff on top if it wants to be a worldbeater!

Ban boring signatures!

elephant
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elephant replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 7:14 PM
It needs to be as good as the best of the rest with the mood stuff on top if it wants to be a worldbeater!

@puncher.

That is what concerns me. That the base / core's starting point may be too compromised.

BeoNut since '75

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Beobuddy replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 7:18 PM

jowus:

 Paul, but what you seems to forget is the old generation made them millions .

 

Question. I'm in the mid 40's. So am I old if I ask for traditional proper working basic search functions?

People around my age are mostly more capable of buying than the youngest generation, I think. Let the "older" customer be your ambassador for the brand. They are not that old to understand a new way of using/controlling, but don't take away their faith in the brand when it comes to easy controlling.

 

 

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Chris replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 7:27 PM

This subject suddenly changed from with a brilliant children's eyes look into a new sound system in a disappointment for long loyal and serious users/listeners. I really hope that the 'boys' in Struer not feel superior and read along.

But imagine nothing, for Gapless playback you need a double buffering mechanism (playing track and next track), don’t expect it from the Moment its not designed for this.

I will probably buy the Moment, mostly for the benefit of my family. It’s easy to use if you make some ready playlists on Deezer for them.

For serious listening myself I will keep the Mac mini, Audirvana & Amarra combo with my Dac connected to the ML/NL converter . And that was actually not my planning, its a disappointment.

 

But now it comes: How on earth can I justify the purchase of the Moment with those opportunities to my wife, she will explain to me I’m definitely crazy. Should I mention its the ‘Beovirus’? Would that be of any help.

"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."

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Normann replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 8:23 PM

I have now sold my BS5/BM5 combo and are ready to call my dealer and order the Moment tomorrow 😃

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Paul W replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 8:44 PM

Sadly Jowus, I don't think any generation made them millions as since the 1980s, B&O go bankrupt every decade on a trot. Maybe some of its management are secretly stealing the money ;)

But no, I agree, a new product should perform well, perfectly. Naples playback - come on, that's essential! And something that every iTunes user has been used to since 2004. Hence why I still like my music on my iPhone streaming to either my Apple TV OR B&O A8 Airplay!

Anyway, interesting debate.But, it is an awful lot of money isn't it!

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vikinger replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 9:14 PM

'Naples playback'?

Looks like someone's auto-error-introducer is turned on.

Graham

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mbolo01 replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 10:04 PM

Millemissen:

 

Please do some searching on 'gapless playback - DLNA' and you will find out, that it is not that easy.

 

Using Synology DS Audio on my iDevice against Synology Media Server, the same DMS the Moment is a renderer of, I can play my Floyd tracks gapless, so I'm assuming it is not a that difficult for B&O coders to do what Synology has done in the DS Audio app. I keep hope :-)

 

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elephant replied on Sun, Feb 15 2015 10:24 PM
vikinger:

'Naples playback'?

Looks like someone's auto-error-introducer is turned on.

Graham

I didn't see Paul as a gramophone guy ! But fluff in one's needle does ruin the playback.

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vikinger:

'Naples playback'?

Looks like someone's auto-error-introducer is turned on.

Graham

Must mean 'continuously playing back' - the music doesn't even take a nap!

MM

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mbolo01:

Millemissen:

Please do some searching on 'gapless playback - DLNA' and you will find out, that it is not that easy.

Using Synology DS Audio on my iDevice against Synology Media Server, the same DMS the Moment is a renderer of, I can play my Floyd tracks gapless, so I'm assuming it is not a that difficult for B&O coders to do what Synology has done in the DS Audio app. I keep hope :-)

That is something that takes place on the server side (in the Synology NAS/Audio Station) - and you must use the Synology app for playback.

The server side is not controlled by the Moment (or B&O).

MM

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Puncher replied on Mon, Feb 16 2015 6:39 AM

Millemissen:

mbolo01:

Millemissen:

Please do some searching on 'gapless playback - DLNA' and you will find out, that it is not that easy.

Using Synology DS Audio on my iDevice against Synology Media Server, the same DMS the Moment is a renderer of, I can play my Floyd tracks gapless, so I'm assuming it is not a that difficult for B&O coders to do what Synology has done in the DS Audio app. I keep hope :-)

That is something that takes place on the server side (in the Synology NAS/Audio Station) - and you must use the Synology app for playback.

The server side is not controlled by the Moment (or B&O).

MM

His point is that it is possible and therefore there is no excuse to present a product this late in the game that can't do it!

 

Ban boring signatures!

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mbolo01 replied on Mon, Feb 16 2015 6:47 AM

Millemissen:

That is something that takes place on the server side (in the Synology NAS/Audio Station) - and you must use the Synology app for playback.

The server side is not controlled by the Moment (or B&O).

MM

My understanding is, and correct me if I'm wrong:

Synology Digital Media Servers (DMS) stores content and makes it available to network digital media players (DMP) e.g Synology DS Audio app on IOS or B&O Moment. In my test, the media server is the same for both players, one of them plays gapless, the other doesn't.

I'll try other players I have in hand like VLC, Sony TV, XBMC, DENON Amp

BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1

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Chris replied on Mon, Feb 16 2015 7:19 AM

Extract from my post above:

But imagine nothing, for Gapless playback you need a double buffering mechanism (playing track and next track), don’t expect it from the Moment its not designed for this.

It means, your server (any type) is of no importance. You need two parts to realize Gapless:

First, a player who has the capabilities in his software.

Second, the hardware where the software is placed on, needs memory to load a new track before the playing track ends.

For recognition of Gapless: You have to write a tag in your file, could be done by hand or automatic by the players software you using (what iTunes does, look into the configuration).

Memory on board the Moment: how much is a mystery as with all their specifications. Will it be enough? Maybe, but the software they use at the very moment on the player is not capable. Even when a tag is placed in the music file.

"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."

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Hiort replied on Mon, Feb 16 2015 8:57 AM

I have sent the following to Beocare:

- Suddenly I see a few more playlists in the Playlist view on Moment than I have added in Deezer. Also, I see a Loved Tracks that is not mine (those tracks do not appear in "Artist view").
Is this a known problem? What should I do to have only my own playlists there?
- When I look for e.g. artist Diana Krall in my collection, I find two Diana Krall in the "Artist view". One include the albums in my collection (thats fine) and one include the Diana Krall songs I marked as loved tracks in Deezer. 
This is very confusing. There should be only one Artist shown. Is this an intended design?
- The album art has some kind of blur effect added to the image.
This is probably a matter of taste, but I think you should reconsider this.
- All FLAC or Apple Lossless tracks I have, appear with their file extensions. MP3 files do not.
Is there a specific reason to this or is this something you will change in next release?
- Generally, Moment has huge problems populating cover art to my albums. Majority of my tracks are Apple Lossless and added trough iTunes.
Does Moment require that you have albumart embedded in the Metadata? iTunes do not embed coverart, but keep that in a separate directory.
When I use a tool to add coverart to the songs, they appear in Moment as they should. But with the ugly blur effect.
- In the settingsmenu there is a possibility to either rebuild a new database, or just refresh from the DLNA server. 
When pressing either option (its not even clear where to press), there is no indication that anything actually starts. Very confusing.
There should be a menu saying something like: 
Do you really want to rebuild the database     YES             NO

- For PatternPlay, does Moment include also e.g Radio when trying to understand what I listen to? 
So if I always play a certain radiochannel 8 o´clock in the morning on weekdays, PatternPlay will adapt to this. Correct?
- Does PatternPlay take certain days into account when creating a pattern, or only time of day?
- I think you should rethink the implementation of artwork for artist. 
Moment is very poor in getting the artist artwork from Gracenote. 
Even well known correctly spelled artists are missed. Think you should enable the user to add artist artwork manually.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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