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Can B&O survive? Maybe soon?

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Clakke
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Clakke Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012 11:11 PM

Hi

During the process when we bought our B&O devices, I often asked myself (and the dealers) how B&O could survive with the equipment available at that time. The equipment for audio were stunning both looks and sound. At the video/TV department, they were never interesting. All the products were extremely overpriced in my eyes. The digital equipment was non existing except for the Beoport, which we bought and combined with Apple. I had some hope when it was time for the Beosound 5, but again way to expensive and no possibility to combine with Apple, no two way remote e t c. Not much better with the encore.

Lately, I have had a feeling that B&O as we know it are really struggling for its survival. I feel even at this eminent forum, that the enthousiasm is not what it has been. There are not so many interesting threads anymore.

The audio part seems still to be OK, but the video part is still suffering from astronomic prices. My guess is that it depends on a combination of B&O entering flat screen market and maintaining their second hand market. There is a tradition with B&O product that there has actually been quite a value in the second hand product when you trade in. Well if B&O entering the market when flat screens cost say 10- 20000 € from normal manufacturers like Sony, Philips e t c. Then they would really have problem when the market decreases the flat screen values at a rate that is much too fast for B&O to cope with. The result is that B&O are still stuck with sky high prices that belongs to an older time. They can not just lower the prices, because then the second hand market would fall to pieces.

Now, with B&O Play, I feel there is a hope for B&O. If they succeed with this market and the new products will sell, like Beosound 8 and maybe Beolit 12, they can just let the old expensive TV sets die out and start over at a more realistic price level. I suspect that it is a possibility that the new B&O management team is thinking like this. They probably must get rid of the old expensive stuff somehow and make profit.

The new B&O TV looks like a Loewe Connect, which we own right now. I have no problem with the design so maybe there could be a B&O TV after all in our home. The prices seem to be OK, if it is a very good TV.

I am looking at B&O Play with interest. This could really be the comeback of B&O.

B R

Clakke

CJM1
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CJM1 replied on Sun, Apr 22 2012 11:21 PM

since you have said that. i know see why B&O are realesing this new tv in may! it is hugely desirable and many people will buy it!

MichaelMiles
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I feel sorry for all those dealers who invested heavily into the brand , many excellent dealers have now gone to the wall after reassurances from the company that things were going to get better. I hope that from Beoplay that the phoenix can indeed rise from the ashes - but all too late for those dealers who have now fallen by the wayside.

Good luck to Beo Play - I think its the only way for the company to move forward.

Seanie_230
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I really hope they do survive as I love the brand and it's the original multi room system in my eyes.

Trouble is that is what attracted me to the brand from day one and now most automation systems can offer this and quite cheaply too. Still this does not mean I would ever part with my beocenter 9300 that I love even know I don't use it.

Beoplay looks like a good step for making hi turnover products but they don't have any of the connectivity issues that I love.

Fingers crossed they find there way forward.

If you price yourself out of the market only one thing will happen.

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PhilLondon
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PhilLondon replied on Mon, Apr 23 2012 10:15 PM

It is interesting to see how the previous CEO, Kalle Hvidt Nielsen, who was from a technical background, was trying to save money by developing a single technical platform for all products. I thought that was a great idea, and it was due to bring the new digital master link.

Tue Mantoni, is from a Marketing background and the changes are more visible, and of course all to do with marketing. There is definitely a lot more buzz about B&O on the net since he is in power, and I totally think his new B&O PLAY range will be a success... but where is the new platform, where is the new digital masterlink?

If only both could have stayed in the company looking after what they knew best!

 

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Clakke
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Clakke replied on Mon, Apr 23 2012 10:16 PM

CJM1:

since you have said that. i know see why B&O are realesing this new tv in may! it is hugely desirable and many people will buy it!

Well, it could be the way they are thinking in Struer. But its just a theory of mine.

Clakke

mbee
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mbee replied on Mon, Apr 23 2012 10:33 PM

PhilLondon:

but where is the new platform, where is the new digital masterlink?

From what I have understood of this strategy, the new platform is the Beosound 5 Encore mainboard, nothing else, nothing more. It will become a "new digital masterlink" (aka BeoNet) product when compatible products will be available (the rumored circular controller for link rooms is one of them). Now it seems that like usual with B&O, the hardware is there, but the software is not ready...

The new video platform could be the V1 chassis, who knows? Because with 5 HDMI and DLNA compatibility, it is way ahead of everything with every TV with a B&O badge. Add some "simple" modules (BeoNet=software, HDMI out for videoprojector=hardware switch, Airplay+DTS-HDMA=license fees... + a high quality large panel), and it can become a high end product, with a lot of margin. Who knows? Currently, the BV10 chassis is the same as the BV8, basically they just added some aluminium and glass!

Clakke
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Clakke replied on Mon, Apr 23 2012 10:33 PM

PhilLondon:

It is interesting to see how the previous CEO, Kalle Hvidt Nielsen, who was from a technical background, was trying to save money by developing a single technical platform for all products. I thought that was a great idea, and it was due to bring the new digital master link.

Tue Mantoni, is from a Marketing background and the changes are more visible, and of course all to do with marketing. There is definitely a lot more buzz about B&O on the net since he is in power, and I totally think his new B&O PLAY range will be a success... but where is the new platform, where is the new digital masterlink?

If only both could have stayed in the company looking after what they knew best!

 

Hi

Is there really a need for a new digital masterlink? Would not AirPlay do, at least for the sound? We will have some more zones installed in the near future, but they will be all Airplay. The video part is not that simple. I do not think that part of AirPlay can be bought from Apple. It seems that Apple keep that for themselves (for now at least).

Maybe it would be wise if B&O did not try to reinvent the wheel. Maybe they should use technology that already exist. Even if they develop an own system, I think they must approach standards like AirPlay anyway somehow.

Clakke

mbee
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mbee replied on Mon, Apr 23 2012 10:41 PM

Airplay doesn't provide the best possible quality of sound (no 24bit, no frequency above 16500Hz...)

Airplay only works with iPad/iPhone, even with my Mac I have to use a "hack" (Airfoil) to send sound to an AirPlay speaker. 

Airplay video is very limited...

I d'ont think that B&O will try to reinvent the wheel, just to add some good improvements and a nice user interface to existing technologies, such as DLNA (BS5/BS5E and Beoplay V1 are DLNA compatible).

I'm a user of Airplay, and I would let down B&O if they used this as their only multiroom system.

Airplay for sound distribution is exactly what iTunes is for music : a well-packed "fast-food" experience. For quality, look elsewhere. 

PhilLondon
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PhilLondon replied on Mon, Apr 23 2012 11:14 PM

Airplay is great and I am happy that B&O supports it but a company cannot base its future on only that technology.

UPNP is now supported by 3 products (Beomaster 5 as server, Beousound 5 Encore, and the B&O PLAY V1), so I am wondering if this protocol has not been chosen has the official replacement.

Being more an Apple person, I didn't really know this protocol, but from what I am reading there seem to be plenty of incompatibles and devices that should be working together don't always.

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Clakke
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Clakke replied on Tue, Apr 24 2012 7:53 AM

mbee:

Airplay doesn't provide the best possible quality of sound (no 24bit, no frequency above 16500Hz...)

Airplay only works with iPad/iPhone, even with my Mac I have to use a "hack" (Airfoil) to send sound to an AirPlay speaker. 

Airplay video is very limited...

I d'ont think that B&O will try to reinvent the wheel, just to add some good improvements and a nice user interface to existing technologies, such as DLNA (BS5/BS5E and Beoplay V1 are DLNA compatible).

I'm a user of Airplay, and I would let down B&O if they used this as their only multiroom system.

Airplay for sound distribution is exactly what iTunes is for music : a well-packed "fast-food" experience. For quality, look elsewhere. 

Hi mbee

I thought that Airplay was a lossless format but I admit that I did not check the specifications very careful. You could be right. The quality is of course crucial for a company like B&O. Is there no way to get "full quality" out of AirPlay?

The problem for B&O seems to get products to the market in time. Development of new systems take time and they will be expensive. Someone will have to pay for this, meaning us. I am just not sure that enough people are prepared to do that. Even worse, if a new system is developed that takes time to get to the market, there is still a risk that some new better system from Apple or someone else will beat them.

B&O has a tradition of building very good players/loudspeakers/TVs. Maybe they should concentrate their effort in this arena in this digital age and use other companies to supply distribution and control.

But maybe the new system is ready?

Clakke

PhilLondon
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Clakke:
I thought that Airplay was a lossless format
mbee:
Airplay doesn't provide the best possible quality of sound (no 24bit, no frequency above 16500Hz...)

AirPlay is indeed lossless as it uses Apple Lossless as compression format for the sound. This is however at CD quality. Mbee's specs are higher than CD quality.

p.

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MichaelMiles:

Good luck to Beo Play - I think its the only way for the company to move forward.

I agree with this statement.  It's clear the current offerings can only go so far.  I wish all the best for the Beo Play.  Perhaps the V1 is the right telly for my bedroom :-)  I don't care that it looks like a Loewe and i reckon it's going to look hot in 32.  I mean don't all TV's look somewhat similar anyway.  I can't wait to see the different stand options besides the tube metal floor stand.

So essentially I could get a V1 a BS5encore and link up to my NAS (i'm hoping).  woohoo

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Flappo replied on Tue, Apr 24 2012 2:44 PM

5 hmdi's sounds amazing , but who actually needs that many , 3 seem more than enough imo ?

Sky HD - 1

Apple Tv - 2

Mac Mini - 3

What on earth else would you add ? I wouldn't plug a ps3 or 360 into a lovely b&o tv anyway.

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Jeff replied on Tue, Apr 24 2012 3:57 PM

Hopefully the Play line will bring in much needed cash, and spread the brand to a new, younger market. Also, can't hurt to get people hooked on style, considering how much dreadful stuff is out there.

I think there are intelligent signs at B&O. For example, the Beosound 5 Encore. Instead of the more expensive Beosound 5, you save about 2000 dollars by using things most people already have, PCs and networks in the home used as music storage servers. Smart IMO.

They need to guard, however, against getting rid of the design elegance that makes them. I hate to say this, as good as they may sound the Beolab 9's are ugly. Same for the Beosound 4. And they are not as backwards compatible as I'd like, it's hard to integrate older B&O stuff into the new systems. For example, I've not found what I consider a good path to integrating a Beosound 5/Encore, my Beosound 9000, and my turntable. None of the approaches is very elegant or maintains all the capability I want.

 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

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kokomo replied on Tue, Apr 24 2012 4:23 PM

Flappo:

5 hmdi's sounds amazing , but who actually needs that many , 3 seem more than enough imo ?

Sky HD - 1

Apple Tv - 2

Mac Mini - 3

What on earth else would you add ? I wouldn't plug a ps3 or 360 into a lovely b&o tv anyway.

 

A/V amplifier/receiver, soundbar, DVD player ? I'm not saying you'd necessarily want all of them, but the sockets are there if you do.

 

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moxxey replied on Tue, Apr 24 2012 5:39 PM

PhilLondon:

AirPlay is indeed lossless as it uses Apple Lossless as compression format for the sound. This is however at CD quality. Mbee's specs are higher than CD quality.

I guarantee for 99% of the mastered audio tracks available in 2012, AirPlay provides sufficient enough audio quality.

For instance, I can listen to a Pink Floyd track on my Beosound 8. Sounds good, whether it's from iTunes or an uncompressed source. Neither matters really (as the issue is with the BS8, not the source). Push the same track via my BL3s/BL11 and the difference is incredible. However, it's very hard for me or most other people to notice much of a difference between a track played via AirPlay or from CD (in fact, you can argue the AirPlay track is better as it goes via some kind of equalisation).

A lot of this discussion about audio quality above CD quality is more, for me, to do with the placebo effect people think they have by playing tracks in such a manner. They believe that they are doing their speakers/equipment an injustice using anything less.

As I said in the opener, most modern audio tracks aren't produced to a level to justify leaving them uncompressed (and/or above CD quality). They aren't produced in a manner designed to get the most from your BL5s. They are produced flat and geared towards the headphone generation.

And it's this generation that will drive the future sales of B&O. Thus AirPlay etc is far more important for the future of B&O.

Paul W
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Paul W replied on Tue, Apr 24 2012 7:00 PM

Gotta say, that's an excellent and pretty much accurate argument from Moxxey there!

Clakke
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Clakke replied on Tue, Apr 24 2012 8:59 PM

Hi

I feel the same here as moxxey actually. Specially I think moxxeys last line gives us all something to think about.

By the way, this thread took an interesting direction, but my intention was really just to come up with a theory why B&O launches something like B&O Play. What do you think of that? Whistle

Clakke

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I'm with Moxxey with regards to the future direction of B&O, and there is a small amount of irony that the budget end of an expensive make leads the way.

On November the 24th 2009 Linn ditched their CD players after 25 years for digital streaming. They even offer a demo where you can try and compare the 2 medias to see if you can really tell the difference. We have an audiophile relative who loathes all things B&O(has house like Goonhilly Earth station) who to his credit took the test and confessed to not being able to tell the difference. Personally I order CDs off EBay and then rip them in Apple Lossless. I then stream them via Apple tv to my current Beovision 7, Beolab 8000,6000 setup. Mute the screen and hey presto.

http://www.linn.co.uk/systems/majik

Wouldn't it be great if we could stream music from a B&O top quality library! The futures bright, the futures wireless.

Beovision Eclipse, BeoLab 17,Beolit 15, Beoplay A2 Active

kokomo
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kokomo replied on Tue, Apr 24 2012 10:23 PM

Chris Townsend:
I then stream them via Apple tv to my current Beovision 7, Beolab 8000,6000 setup. Mute the screen and hey presto.

Out of interest Chris, from what device do you stream your audio to the Beovision  - your computer?   

 

Chris Townsend
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iPhone, iPad 1 or iMac/MacBook pro. Take your pic but Apple Tv will stream anything directly from your chosen device to the box attached to an hdmi socket. Makes for a very cheap, flexible way of streaming music/videos etc. The new version is 1080p but doesn't quite match blu ray apparently. Not yet anyway!

Beovision Eclipse, BeoLab 17,Beolit 15, Beoplay A2 Active

elephant
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elephant replied on Wed, Apr 25 2012 1:37 AM

Chris Townsend:
 
KoKoMo:

 Chris Townsend:
I then stream them via Apple tv to my current Beovision 7, Beolab 8000,6000 setup. Mute the screen and hey presto.

Out of interest Chris, from what device do you stream your audio to the Beovision  - your computer?  

iPhone, iPad 1 or iMac/MacBook pro. Take your pic but Apple Tv will stream anything directly from your chosen device to the box attached to an hdmi socket. Makes for a very cheap, flexible way of streaming music/videos etc. The new version is 1080p but doesn't quite match blu ray apparently. Not yet anyway!

Nowadays I stream, like Chris, from the iPad to the Apple TV (Airplay push mode), or use the ATV's interface to select music from the iCloud (I subscribed to iTunes Match) or the Mac directly or music video clips in Vimeo / YouTube.

However I still have my LinkPlayer setup so that on occasions I use the BeoVision's N-Music function.

KoKoMo, if you are after a Windows streaming approach, take a look at the recent "WIreless DIsplay" thread ... not that I am going to go in that direction

BeoNut since '75

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Alsfeld replied on Sun, Apr 29 2012 7:21 PM

4 reasons why I did start buying B&O Equipment 10 years ago?

1) Integration: Integration / link of all B&O products even in different rooms and control them by one remote. It was even possible to install only a loudspeaker in one room e.g. Beolab3500 and you had access to all sources in the main-room.
AND today? Masterlink is technical outdated and new products even do not support it any more. Follow-up product is not noticeable.

2) Minimalism: As many function / features as possible within one product. I loved first the Ouverture and then the Beocenter 2, one product offering radio, CD-player, cassette-player / DVD-player everything you need within one small device.
AND today? Nothing new available, I am still waiting for a product supporting NAS, audio and video streaming, CD and DVD like the Mediacenter of Loewe.

3) Design: Bauhaus orientated design clear, smooth and purism.
AND today? There are many other brands following this design concept, it not anymore a unique selling point of B&O.

4) Quality & Service: My first products Ouverture, Beolab 3500, Beocenter 2, MX8000, … are still working like on first day.
AND today? New products like Beosystem 3 and Beovision 9 cause trouble since they are installed, several times already a technician had to come for software update and exchanging parts. And since the warrantee run out B&O does not care at all (see thread http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/845.aspx
).

I do not thing that B&O will survive as long as they do not return to the above mentioned principals. And that is the reason why I do not belief that beoplay line will help them to survive. Even with the best marking you will not get long lasting customers, when the products are not convincing.

Why is Apple so successful? I think because they are following all mentioned principals:
1) iphone, ipad, macmini everything can be linked and integrated. So you have the feeling to need another product from the same company to integrate and improve your setting.
2) E.g. iphone combines: mobile phone, mp3player, computer, camera, remote, etc. all in one product.
3) Apple follows pure minimalistic design
4) So far I had no quality issues with my apple products

When B&O does not start to launch a big product offensive considering the above mentioned principals, they will be gone within the next two years.

And I am asking myself who will take the B&O place in my household Loewe, Apple, Samsung?

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ouverture replied on Sun, Apr 29 2012 10:37 PM

+1 Alfsed

you and I are very alike, but my first exposure to B&O was a bit earlier with the fabulous Beogram 4000 record deck that my dad had, it went wrong many times in the seventies, mainly our fault, but B&O always fixed it and never gave us a hard time, they even replaced the SP15 cartridge a number of times as long as they kept the old one - happy days :-) 

1) Integration:  yes I had it installed in the last three houses I've been in at great expense, but now in our current home with two teenage daughters I decided it was not worth it, the world has moved on and nobody wants to listen to the radio or my music collection anymore, end of "Multi-Room" market I believe and no wonder B&O can't be arsed with it, and launch B&O Play brand to younger audience.

2) Minimalism: yes, a big yes, my Beosound Ouverture that I bought in 1997 with the new Beo 4 remote, and new design Beolab Active 4000 speakers, it was the most expensive and one of the best Hi-Fi purchases I ever made, and still looks good in my study today, everything I needed 15 years ago was inside this Beosound, and it still gets the thumbs up from visitors. At the same time I bought a Beovision Avant 32 VHS for the lounge, again superb design, and colour cues, mine was maroon red, very stylish and elegant, and still works, but the VHS does not work, so looking to put it in the bedroom and buy a nice Samsung ES8000 for the lounge, why, when I should really be going for B&O,  after all I am smitten with the brand, but the B&O range of flat screen TV's seem less than special design wise these days, so another lost sale for Streur

3) Design: yes, they had the market to themselves for a decade or two, but now I think it is so much harder for B&O to be unique and charge 5x times more for product, many companies now are spending a lot more on R&D but the Design departments are now also getting generous budgets allocated to them, which was not usually the case in years gone by.

4) Quality & Service: yes, the quality is there inside most of the devices that B&O used to sell, the components used were generally of high quality and made to last, they did not get everything right, but by and large the shops (UK service dept) stepped in and sorted out most issues without fuss.

I am not sure today, B&O shops are closing up and down the country, and it is becoming harder to find talented engineers who can repair old B&O models like my old Beogram, so it sits in a box in the garage. So I think it is going to be tough to keep the "Excellent Service" tag, they will probably go the way of Sony in this regard, we will see.

However, I don't think the B&O Play idea will work for them, the three headphones they are over priced and not that cool for young people these days, we went to our local B&O shop recently and we all tried the headphones, my daughter compared them with her V-Jays (great little Swedish company). and she did not feel that the "Form 2" were that good, she also tried the Earset 3i and was not really that impressed, I tried all three models as I want something for my iPod when I travel but the SQ was not as good as I was hoping for, another sale lost for B&O, and this was not about price either. 

Beosound 8 iDevice dock looks good, trendy in white, the SQ was good, my two daughters loved it, but both of them seemed a bit taken aback when the price was discussed, only £750 quid, well at least it looks the part, which is good. But compared to the Philips Fidelio DS9800 ( priced at £700 retail) , the DS9800 sounds a lot more HiFi, I think this is more to do with the spacing of the speakers, but anyways B&O have competition and there will be many others in the high end iDevices and Airplay market, you can be assured of that, which is probably not what Streur want to hear. 

The yellow Beolit 12 with the real leather carrying strap was a hoot, it's loud and super sounding in a mono way, more like a boom box for the rich, only £600, I can see them being highly popular on the bus or the tube, hell yeh ! 

So we came to the shop to look at TV's, we looked and listened to everything, came out of the shop empty handed, and decided to go with a Samsung ES8000 LED Smart 60inch TV with built in camera, and it looks really beautiful with its slim, borderless design, reminded me of B&O in years gone by, very Bauhaus :-) . The Sony KDL-55HX853 at £1800 pounds was nice as well, but the Samsung seemed better value for money at £2400 with 5 year warranty.

So I would also strongly add Samsung to the list with Apple, not so sure about Loewe, never really been a fan, but even a small company like Oheocha in Dublin are taking design cues from B&O

http://www.oheocha.com/index.php?g=products

 

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elephant replied on Sun, Apr 29 2012 10:41 PM

You make 4 very valid buying criterai that will resonate with most of us - certainly I have banged on for years about "systems integration" and "systems architecture" which was your first point - and I agree the Apple of today has these strengths (others will tell you that Apple fails the "service quality" test which is a little different from "build quality") - a lot of the "quality" issues that B&O stem from the fact that today everything has software inside it - and I suspect world quality programmers and designers would find Struer less attractive than say Santa Clara

However I do think that B&O does have one integrated capability - and that is the TV - admittedly it needs to access a BeoPort or an ATV, but once your music is digital a B&O TV can once more become a centre of entertainment 

BeoNut since '75

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bayerische replied on Sun, Apr 29 2012 10:43 PM

I'm not losing sleep over whether B&O will survive, I think they will. However what I'm stressed about how they haven't figured out better ways to get my cash! Cool

Too long to list.... 

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moxxey replied on Mon, Apr 30 2012 7:55 AM

ouverture:
Beosound 8 iDevice dock looks good, trendy in white, the SQ was good, my two daughters loved it, but both of them seemed a bit taken aback when the price was discussed, only £750 quid...

Well if you're planning on getting one, bear in mind that when the Beosound 8 "A8" (with AirPlay) ships soon, it will increase in price! My dealer says it will be an additional £100 and getting closer to £1000.

B&O are running a 15% off BS8 at the moment, making it very cost-effective.

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bayerische:

I'm not losing sleep over whether B&O will survive, I think they will. However what I'm stressed about how they haven't figured out better ways to get my cash! Cool

Quite right, B&O never thought about how to get at other peoples money, and I will never never pay USD 100,000.00 to get a new up to date setup, with all the bells and whistles, where, come to think of it, B&O cant deliver it even at that price, their software is outdated before it hit the market.

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

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Flappo replied on Mon, Apr 30 2012 8:22 AM

I agree with alsfeld , if Apple bring out a consumer Tv etc - and they no doubt will eventualy , then b&o are dead in the water. Their software is a joke in comparison. With Jony Ive designing the tv will no doubt be stunning. Unlike B&o the guts and the technology will match the exterior...

There really is no contest. It's sad really. But B&O are / were arrogant like Apple were in the late 80's early 90's. Before SJ came back gave them a reality check and saved the day. Maybe Tue can do the same , I wish him luck.

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I Use apple stuff from 1982. I bought everything in good and bad days (pre & post SJ) but I have to say something: take a 1996 bang & olufsen loud speaker and take a same year apple stuff... There is not a possible comparison... Apple makes a design that it's an icon for 2 years than the new stuff make the old stuff like a 100 years old design. Apple make design to do not stand for years... They make a great job in the evolutive design... An every two years they reach a new milestone... No one can match the b&o year over year feeling.
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moxxey replied on Mon, Apr 30 2012 10:36 AM

scognamiglio1969:
No one can match the b&o year over year feeling.

No, true, but then there are a lot of people who say B&O products look like they were designed in the 80s and, to be fair, they can give that impression, especially when you have a lot of kit. Also, the design generally appears more to the 35+ year olds (those who can remember the 80s), than the younger generation. The way most of us look at B&O design is very different from how the younger generation perceive the products. As 9Lee rightly says, the people who vote B&O products as super cool aren't the consumers who walk in to the store (or do not walk in to the store), they consist of a 40-year-old bespectacled, cashmere-wearing, BMW-driving committee.

Besides, speakers do not "age" as badly as most tech equipment as technology improvements do not tend to influence speakers. With laptops getting thinner and smaller by the year, a two year old laptop can look big, cumbersome and, thus, out of date.

CJM1
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CJM1 replied on Mon, Apr 30 2012 11:01 AM

i feel that B&O are also Choking you and not only that scrimpting on their products performance. for example take the Avant. for its day it had an amazing picture (ok in todays standards) but the sound was amazing! and when it came out it was only about 4 grand, plus the later models had a built in DVD player to replace the back breaking VCR. But now if you want to buy a 32 inch B&O tv you get a stunning design. But the speakers are no where near as good as the ones on the Avant. plus you don't get a built in DVD player or HDD recorder. And then the price is about 7 thousand. Which is 3 grand more for what you could get an avant for! 

CJM1
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CJM1 replied on Mon, Apr 30 2012 11:01 AM

i feel that B&O are also Choking you and not only that scrimpting on their products performance. for example take the Avant. for its day it had an amazing picture (ok in todays standards) but the sound was amazing! and when it came out it was only about 4 grand, plus the later models had a built in DVD player to replace the back breaking VCR. But now if you want to buy a 32 inch B&O tv you get a stunning design. But the speakers are no where near as good as the ones on the Avant. plus you don't get a built in DVD player or HDD recorder. And then the price is about 7 thousand. Which is 3 grand more for what you could get an avant for! 

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Mon, Apr 30 2012 11:14 AM

CJM1:

i feel that B&O are also Choking you and not only that scrimpting on their products performance. for example take the Avant. 

Again, living in the past. You have to move on. It's very very difficult producing a TV in 2012 that both looks ultra-modern (thin) and also ships with superb audio (requires depth). They aren't mutually exclusive. That's the problem B&O have these days.

This is easily resolved by connecting separate speakers. That's the only way around this dilemma. You simply can't have both, easily.

BV12 has proved this. Top-of-the-range picture, ultra thin, but poor centre speaker. No way near the level of the 7.4, for example. However, connect BL3s/9s/5s/12s and the sound is incredible.

Steph
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Steph replied on Mon, Apr 30 2012 2:17 PM

I think in 2005, the new BeoVision 7-32 could have been the successor of the Avant:

32" screen, superb materials, amazing loudspeaker, surround connections, motorised stand...

But the picture quality with bad source was poor.

Maybe the 7-40 MKVI could be the real successor...

Clakke
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Clakke replied on Mon, May 7 2012 11:06 PM

Hi

Personally I believe that B&O have what they need to survive now with the line up within B&O Play. I think this is a really good start. When a company launch a new series, like this V1 television, they normally start with the top line model. Hopefully we will see even cheaper TVs in the B&O Play range (and of course more expensive ones as well).

I have only seen the pictures but it looks good. I am satisfied so far.

B R

Clakke

ouverture
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ouverture replied on Sat, May 12 2012 11:21 PM

I don't think it will be easy for B&O, now that Apple are buying Loewe for $113 million USD

http://www.tchnws.com/tech-news/apple-linked-with-113-million-acquisition-of-german-television-manufacturer-loewe/

 

Apple has been linked with the acquisition of German electronics company and reputable television manufacturer Loewe AG, with reports that a deal could be announced internally by the end of next week, AppleInsider reports.

Sources have told the Apple-focused website that Apple has entered negotiations with the premium television manufacturer, tabling a €87.3 million (around $113 million) bid for the company, although it has reportedly yet to be agreed.

However, the company is said to have been “advised by its financial advisor to accept the offer and a final decision is scheduled to be announced internally before 18 May 2012.”

One of Loewe’s major shareholders is Sharp, a company that is said to be supplying panels for Apple’s new television sets. The company was established in 1923, has around 1,000 employees and is regarded for its stunning flat-screen televisions.

The purchase of a Loewe would all but confirm Apple’s intent to introduce new televisions, bringing aboard employees of a company that has manufactured sets for over 75 years.

B&O will fade away into insignificance if this materialises on the 18th May.

 

 

PhilLondon
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PhilLondon replied on Sat, May 12 2012 11:34 PM

ouverture:
B&O will fade away into insignificance if this materialises on the 18th May.

Not only B&O, but Loewe, as Apple would certainly close it and just use people, patents and technologies.

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ouverture
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ouverture replied on Sun, May 13 2012 1:21 AM

it does seem an odd mix, Sharp, Apple and Loewe,  but I don't think for a minute that Apple have gone into this blind, I have a feeling Sharp and Apple are looking at ways to increase market share, and Loewe needed to be taken out of the equation !

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