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Beomaster 1900-2 tape input low volume

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Wouter
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Wouter posted on Sun, Nov 17 2013 11:17 PM

Hi,

I have a Beomaster 1900-2 which is working allright for radio listening. I wanted to use it to listen to music from my iPhone but when I connected the headphone out of my phone to the din5 tape input, the volume is considerably lower than the radio, even with iphone volume almost turned up to the max.

Is this normal? Did the tape output produce a stronger signal than a headphone out nowadays? Does someone have a similar setup? Can I fix it with a small preamp or is it a problem with the beomaster itself and do I need to look into fixing that?

I tried the phono input as well, that is more sensitive (higher volume) but the sound is not good, like higher frequencies are filtered out.

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts and advice.

Wouter

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Andrew
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Answered (Verified) Andrew replied on Mon, Nov 18 2013 1:12 AM
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Hi Wouter

I have a Beomaster 1900 and I have observed the same thing with respect to the volume on the tape input. At first I was concerned and now I have come to believe its not that the tape input is low, it is that the FM tuner input is higher than tape and phono. I think different countries broadcast FM at different volumes (for want of a better term).

I would avoid running anything into the Phono input except for a turntable as the Phono input adjusts the signal based on the RIAA standard (extending bass and reducing treble) which is why your iPod sounds strange plugged into the Phono input

Drew

Christian Christensen
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Actually it most likely the oposit. Its the volume of what comes out of the radio that is very high.
Since the 90this when digitally broadcast compressors took place in radio stations, the level of radio is redicously higher today then when when these machines where designed.

I have the same thing here in Sweden, radiostations compete with level

Luckly , and smartly, many of the B&O products have adjustments for the radiolevel, somtimes for the user through small pots.

The consequence of pumping up radio level to the roof  at the radio stations is that transits and natural dynamic of the music is cut off - destroyed. Music through radio sound horrible today compared to some 10-20 years ago. 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

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Andrew
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Answered (Verified) Andrew replied on Mon, Nov 18 2013 1:12 AM
Verified by Wouter

Hi Wouter

I have a Beomaster 1900 and I have observed the same thing with respect to the volume on the tape input. At first I was concerned and now I have come to believe its not that the tape input is low, it is that the FM tuner input is higher than tape and phono. I think different countries broadcast FM at different volumes (for want of a better term).

I would avoid running anything into the Phono input except for a turntable as the Phono input adjusts the signal based on the RIAA standard (extending bass and reducing treble) which is why your iPod sounds strange plugged into the Phono input

Drew

Christian Christensen
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Verified by Wouter

Actually it most likely the oposit. Its the volume of what comes out of the radio that is very high.
Since the 90this when digitally broadcast compressors took place in radio stations, the level of radio is redicously higher today then when when these machines where designed.

I have the same thing here in Sweden, radiostations compete with level

Luckly , and smartly, many of the B&O products have adjustments for the radiolevel, somtimes for the user through small pots.

The consequence of pumping up radio level to the roof  at the radio stations is that transits and natural dynamic of the music is cut off - destroyed. Music through radio sound horrible today compared to some 10-20 years ago. 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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So , no, dont fiddle around wit pre-amps. There is, most likel, nothing wrong with your Beomaster.
The level from a mobile device such as a Iphone, is in the range that the Beomaster is designed for, if you start using pre-amps, or connecting it to the phono stage, you will force level beyound what the circuits is designed for and result will be distorsion

Blame radio stations  Smile

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

tournedos
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Christian Christensen:

The consequence of pumping up radio level to the roof  at the radio stations is that transits and natural dynamic of the music is cut off - destroyed. Music through radio sound horrible today compared to some 10-20 years ago. 

Indeed.

Also, it is quite normal that you will need to crank the iPod (or any similar device with a headphone output) to the maximum level. They are designed to drive a low-impedance device (the headphones) to a certain power level. Typically that means that their output voltage level (more of interest to a high-impedance input such as the tape input of a Beomaster) may remain relatively low.

Furthermore, even the headphone outputs may not be as high level as they used to be, because the maximum allowable sound pressure levels are regulated nowadays so that you won't have to yell to your kids later Big Smile

--mika

Christian Christensen
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Mika Agree, there is a  misadapt between the a mobile modern device and a tape machine, but the pumped up level on the radiochannels is far far more the biggest factor of level, at least here in Sweden.

When I connect my mobile phone to my beocenter, yes the level is a bit lower then the turntable, but not a big prolem, problem is when i switch to radio, I risk blowing my speakers 

The only radio channel we have that has reasonable  level and kept dynamic is the municipal channel 2 that broadcast classical music, the rest is unfortnually crap sound quailty.

It all started here when commercial radio channels were allowed, then they started to compete in level and unfornually it spread as a virus even to the muncipal channels., and it became way way worse when the digitally mastering compressors entered the radio broadcast market.

 

 

 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

tournedos
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Christian Christensen:
The only radio channel we have that has reasonable  level and kept dynamic is the municipal channel 2 that broadcast classical music, the rest is unfortnually crap sound quailty.

I know, same here. There are two reasonable radio channels over here, they are the "serious" and "old geezer" channels of the national broadcaster. Fortunately they carry most of the radio programming I'm interested in Big Smile The rest are either so-so or completely unlistenable on a decent hifi system.

(And the classical channel which is only broadcast via DVB. Apparently they don't use sound compression at all)

--mika

Christian Christensen
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...which reminded me to adjust the radiolevel myself on my Beocenter 7700. I just turned the potentiometers almost down to minium to match the turntable and the tape input...its that bad here

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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Which takes the question back  to Beomaster 1900


I dont have any user manual, but took a very quick look I did at the schematics between the tuner and preamp amp I can´t find any separate adjustment for the radio on this mahine

Will look better  later when I have more time, anyone else with more info about the 1900 ?

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Wouter
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Wouter replied on Mon, Nov 18 2013 10:46 PM

Thanks to all for the good info. I did find another link in the archive from 2007 that mentions it could be due to wrong wiring in my cable?

http://archivedforum.beoworld.org/forums/t/7920.aspx

 

Christian Christensen
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there is very little that can go wrong in suchcable 

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Christian Christensen
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 most likely you should think, an input idiot  have crammed too much radio into my beomaster

My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

Wouter
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Wouter replied on Tue, Nov 19 2013 8:37 AM

I quickly browsed through the service manual and found only mention of tape input adjustment to a well-specified level, but not for the radio.

Wouter
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Wouter replied on Tue, Nov 19 2013 8:37 AM

I quickly browsed through the service manual and found only mention of tape input adjustment to a well-specified level, but not for the radio.

Christian Christensen
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In that case, you are most likely suffering the  enormous level of todays radio.
Not much today then just use the volume.

When the beautiful Bang & Olufsens vintage equipment were designed, it was designed with the general level of radio at the time

Another classic example is webbrowsed music deliviery services like spotify, wimp grooveshark that has free accounts with advertising. If you listen to old music, with old mastering for dynamic ,the advertising will explode in level.

I dont know how it is in the netherlands regarding TV broadcast, but here, same thing, commercial break explode in level so you have to jump to the remote and turn down the level.

Same thing. new treatment  of distributed material vs old . Result is the same .

Its commercial agendas behind this war of levels.


My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.

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