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S-45 issues

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Piaf
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Piaf posted on Sat, Mar 31 2012 3:48 AM

I was recently gifted with S-45 speakers deposited in a re-cycle facility. While the covers and the veneer suffered slightly from being tossed about in the “garage bin” the speakers appear in as-new condition.

 

Once powered up one speaker has no response from the woofer and the other has a silent tweeter.

 

When I have the time to open them up I am hoping for a loose speaker connection, but I wonder in a bad cross-over network is the more likely cause.

 

Jeff


Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

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Dillen
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Actually, the top pair that Søren shows you are also Beovox S45.2  Geeked  Laughing
You can tell the difference by the rear aluminum strip.

The two older versions all share woofer and midrange.
The last series of the earliest version shares the tweeter too (to add to the confusion).
The latest version (with the two-part front grills) share nothing with the others.

Martin

Steffen
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Piaf:

I know a fair deal about Bang & Olufsen products, but by NO means do I present myself as an expert. As such I hope you will forgive my confusion in regard to these speakers.

Well... You can always look it up here on Beoworld - at the Main Site under  "products",,,Wink As a gold member you should try it Whistle

 

Søren Mexico
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Piaf:

Rambling? Well quite possibly I was, sorry about that.

 

I know a fair deal about Bang & Olufsen products, but by NO means do I present myself as an expert. As such I hope you will forgive my confusion in regard to these speakers.

 

My original and ugly pair of S-45 speakers were a gift from a friend in California who wanted me to use them in conjunction with my Beomaster 2400. There are problems with these speakers beyond appearance and I decided to use my original pair of S-75’s with the 2400.

 

I haven’t seen these speakers in a few years and my “impression” was that the front panel was flat, different from my newest acquisitions. A closer look at my own photos reveals that they are very similar if not quite identical to my newer pair.

 

Jeff

Sorry Jeff Me too got it mixed up, but listen to Martin he's always right Laughing

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Tue, Apr 3 2012 4:55 AM

Hi Martin,

 

Both sets of S-45 speakers have the aluminum strips front and rear.

 

I am “assuming” that my first pair are S-45’s and the later ones are S-45.2’s.

 

Good to know that I can swap the bad woofer from the older pair, while undoubtedly I will, but in truth I much prefer the sound from the S-75’s.

 

I seem to have developed a habit of miss-pairing amps and speakers. The original S-45’s were sent to me as a gift as being more appropriate for my Beomaster 2400. I didn’t like the sound quality and have paired the 2400 with the first set of S-75’s with superb results.

 

I went on to pair my Beomaster 4500 (and my favorite amp for the record) with S120.2 speakers. Blasphemy perhaps, but the sound quality is remarkable. I have it on good authority that if pushed the Beomaster 4500 will run out of steam and the full potential of these speakers will not be realized. This I can confirm, but at anything less than full power, the combination works.

 

Continuing my miss-matching I am pairing the BeoCenter 9000 with the newer S-75’s and have been MORE than pleased with the results. Of course I know that if I intended to press for maximum power the 9000 would go into self-defense mode, but this in not my interest.

 

Should I ever feel the need (and I doubt I ever will) to shake the house with Toccata in Fugue in D minor I will leave that to the 500 watt McIntosh which is more than happy to oblige such a request.

 

One last question, does the magnet/glue issue of the S-45 also affect the S-75 series?

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Tue, Apr 3 2012 4:57 AM

No problem.

 

I agree Martin IS always right and a fine gentleman as well.

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Dillen
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Piaf:

Hi Martin,

 

Both sets of S-45 speakers have the aluminum strips front and rear.

 I am “assuming” that my first pair are S-45’s and the later ones are S-45.2’s.

One last question, does the magnet/glue issue of the S-45 also affect the S-75 series?

No. They are both S-45.2 (type 6312, look at the white label at the back if it's still there).
The early S-45 doesn't have the rear alu trim and they have a composite back with six wall-mounting fittings rather
than a flat wooden back with two threaded holes for the floorstand/wallbracket.

No, the S75 are (so far) not affected. Woofers in P45/P50 and some midrange drivers (M70 or M75) and the slimline Beolit portables are.

Martin

Peter
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Peter replied on Tue, Apr 3 2012 8:14 AM

On the S45/S75 sound quality issue, the S75s offer considerably more bass than the bookshelf S45. However in purist terms, the S45 offers a more analytical sound in my view. The bass is reduced but in a progressive manner so that the sound reproduction is excellent. S75s, which I chose over S45s when a young man, are wonderful for parties and can produce an impressive amount of noise, but the bass is actually a little out of control and blousy if you sit down and listen to them. S120s, which replaced them in the range, correct this and are probably the best of the S range. S75s however are most appealing and sound more exciting than even S120s! I suppose they are speakers with the loudness button switched on!! Big Smile

Peter

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Tue, Apr 3 2012 2:57 PM

Hi Peter,

 

The real problem I am having with judging the quality of the S-45 series speakers is primarily that I have yet to encounter a pair in good condition. Something to look forward to I am certain.

 

Typical for a North American, as opposed to European taste, I like my sound to have a full rich bass characteristic. However I also like crisp highs, so to date the search for the “perfect” speaker escapes me.

 

If I want to play something with heavy bass, say organ music, nothing comes close to the McIntosh ML-2’s, but the high end in these speakers is almost an afterthought.

 

The Lynn Isobarics are the reverse with spectacular highs, maybe even a bit too bright, but no bass. Oddly enough I play the McIntosh and Linn speakers at the same time and they seem to compliment each other.

 

I find the S120.2 speakers most impressive, which are a good deal like the Linn speakers in a smaller package.

 

Thanks for your input which is most appreciated! Smile

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Peter
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Peter replied on Tue, Apr 3 2012 4:58 PM

Took me ages to get my head around S45 speakers! Let's face it - B&O when I mentioned S45.2 speakers at one point denied such a thing existed! If you look at the badges, they only say S45 - only on the labels on the back does the .2 feature!

Peter

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Thu, Apr 5 2012 4:44 AM

Peter,

 

With all the problems that seem to plague the S-45 series speakers I don’t know if I am especially motivated to find, at long last, a good pair, to see what all the talk is about.

 

From the working pair that I have I rather think that all things being equal that I’d likely prefer the overall sound quality of the S-75 speakers.

 

I purchased the S120.2 speakers in hopes of finding the “ultimate” B&O speakers and they have more than impressed, with the exception that I find the bass a bit lacking. This may have more to do with the limited power of the Beomaster 4500 than anything vis-à-vis the speakers, but if it were you, what speaker would you choose?

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Dillen
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Not to spoil the fun, jeff, but the S75 have issues too, you know.
Blown tweeters, burned resistors, lose woofer solder lug rivets etc.
Plenty to worry about.  Laughing

With limited power, I would never go for bigger B&O speakers. Actually, for the Beomaster 4500 I think
the S45 would be fine.

Martin

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Thu, Apr 5 2012 2:45 PM

Hi Martin,

 

The cold hard truth is nothing lasts forever, especially electronics, so rather than worrying about inevitable failure, I just “enjoy” my “treasures.”

 

Besides I have a pretty good track record with my “antiques” as my main stereo is 41 years old including the speakers.

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Peter
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Peter replied on Thu, Apr 5 2012 3:14 PM

I must confess that the B&O speakers I use the most are either Beolab 4000s or CX100s. Serious listening is done on my BBC LS3/5a and AB1 combination and for best, I have a pair of M100s. These would satisfy both your high and low wishes! MS150s are also excellent though you need a good amplifier as any distortion makes the tweeter shriek. S45s and S120s are both actually a little bass light but this suits the European home. In the US, you are used to bigger rooms and you need the bass to fill it.

Peter

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Fri, Apr 6 2012 5:49 AM

Hi Peter,

 

Yes you are quite right, American homes are for the most part on a much larger scale than those in Europe.

 

I have no doubt that your recommendation of M100’s would fit my taste well.

 

My favourite amp is the Beomaster 4500 with its delicious mellow sound quality. I don’t know how it would fare paired with the M100’s as it struggles if pressed to its limits with the S120.2’s.

 

I suppose if I were serious about this I would be looking for a Beomaster 8000 from Bill Rapp.

 

And yes, I agree, the S120.2’s are lacking in bass…. a likely mistake on my part as they are too much for my intended amp, the Beomaster 4500. Still they have a delightful sound quality within their limitations.

 

While I truly love my McIntosh 2250 with its mighty 500 watts and will forever be grateful to the McIntosh Company for recently completely rebuilding my amplifier and pre-amp at NO charge…. I still find the sound quality a bit cold in stark contrast to the Beomaster 4500.

 

When I play records I choose the stereo system best suited to the particular recording. It is all part of the fun, especially when sharing music with fellow audiophiles.

 

Thanks for your recommendation of the M100’s.

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Peter
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I think you need one of these!


Peter

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