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S-45 issues

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Piaf
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Piaf posted on Sat, Mar 31 2012 3:48 AM

I was recently gifted with S-45 speakers deposited in a re-cycle facility. While the covers and the veneer suffered slightly from being tossed about in the “garage bin” the speakers appear in as-new condition.

 

Once powered up one speaker has no response from the woofer and the other has a silent tweeter.

 

When I have the time to open them up I am hoping for a loose speaker connection, but I wonder in a bad cross-over network is the more likely cause.

 

Jeff


Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

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Evan
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Evan replied on Sat, Mar 31 2012 4:14 AM

Does the bad woofer move freely? It could have been struck with the dreaded magnet issue where the glue breaks free on the driver magnet and makes it impossible for the cone to move.

Beo4 'til I die!

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sun, Apr 1 2012 5:12 AM

Kindly forgive the uneducated question but can I judge movement with the speaker in place? If so, it does not move at all. I pushed hard as I dared not wanting to damage the speaker and it doesn’t move.

 

I also neglected to mention what now seems an important detail, once connected to my BeoCenter 9000 the additional S-45’s in combination with the S-75’s forced the amp to “turn down” the volume several notches.

 

Once the S-45’s were disconnected the amp was more than willing to power at any level I requested which indicated to me that something was very wrong with the S-45’s.

 

In the past I powered three sets of inefficient speakers (Linn Isobaric’s, McIntosh ML-2’s, and Fisher XL’s with my ever dependable Beomaster 2400 with no problem, but when I attempted the same thing with my Beomaster 4500 it protested cutting back the volume in self-defense.

 

So now what should I do?

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

DMacri
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If you have a meter, disconnect the S45 speakers from your stereo and take a resistance reading of each speaker as a comparison. If one has really low impedance, you may have a shorted voice coil inside. Open the bad speaker and check each driver to see which are bad - the woofer and tweeter may both be bad. It sounds like your woofer at least is damaged.

Dom

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Dillen
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I agree on the above measurements but the Beocenter 9000 always had a somewhat "weak" amplifier.
The amplifier for passive speakers was never first priority in any of these Beocenters.

Compare the cone movement to the working woofer.
If the cone (coil) has frozen solid the only solution is to replace the woofer with an original spare.
And secure the magnet on the working one with glue before it ends up the same way.

Martin

Piaf
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Hi Martin,

 

I have a second pair of “ugly” cosmetically damaged white S-45 speakers that I covered with faux wood, which looks acceptable, however the grills are tattered, so I don’t use them. It would be easy enough to swap out the offending speakers as the new set is more than presentable cosmetically.

 

What I don’t quite understand is my tattered pair function satisfactorily but the speakers themselves look bad, the foam surround on the edge of disintegrating and the paper cones just hanging in there. This compared to the absolutely NEW appearance of the non-functioning speakers I just acquired.

 

In any case considering the massive power of the BeoCenter 9000 at 30 watts per channel; no doubt the S-45’s would be the best choice for pairing up with this amp. That said I have never been all that impressed with the S-45’s that I have….. although it may be argued that I have never heard to “good” S-45.

 

I much prefer the sound quality of the S-75 and just plan to avoid over-driving this modest amp.

 

Jeff


Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Piaf
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The above photo was too large and cropped by the server. Here is a second attempt to show the before and after....

Jeff


Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Dillen
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Beovox S45 (6302) and S-45.2 (6312) never had foam surrounds.
The Beovox S45 (6427) however, did and is a two-way system only.

The white and palisander ones in the photo are both Beovox S45.2 type 6312 so none of them should have foam rot.

Martin

Piaf
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Hi Martin,

I am going to try a MUCH reduced in-size photo of the before and after of my "ugly" S-45 speakers..... the ones that work. This is the before and after shot of the pair. Note the yellow discoloration on the top of the white speaker. Looked nasty! I applied contact paper and the transformation was beyond remarkable. Of course it is fake, but looks "believable."

Unfortunately the new attractive ones have issues. One woofer is absloutely immovable. I took it out and tried everything, but it is like cast in cement. The other speaker has a dead tweeter.

These speakers are ninties equipment and I am a bit surprised that they failed at such a young age..... especially when you consider that my 1971 McIntosh ML-2 speakers survived the massive abuse of my youth and yet 41 years later these 100% original speakers still perform basically as new. The paper and rubber surrounds on the woofers were replaced in 1996, but other than that, these ML-2's are they way they left the factory.

Jeff


Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Dillen
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Piaf:

One woofer is absloutely immovable.

Yes, the magnet became lose and has snapped to one side, squeezing the coil.
That happens far too often with this type of driver. The cone feels like it is rock solid, welded in place and
the woofer will be as quiet as the complaint department at a parachute packing plant.

If you grab it very hard, you will be able to move the magnet about 1mm from side to side with respect to the
metal basket but it will be very difficult and it will constantly snap to the side.
There is no immediate fix for this situation other than fitting a replacement woofer.

Glue the magnet on the working one(s) while there is still time. Handle them carefully.

The Beovox S45 (6302) and S45.2 (6312) are from the 1970's.

Martin

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sun, Apr 1 2012 9:59 PM

Hi Martin,

 

Oh boy but do I ever feel STUPID! Crying

 

The working speakers are unquestionably from the seventies, but my troubled speakers are clearly MUCH newer and likely built around the time of the BeoCenter 9000. Sad that the “old stuff” lasts longer than the new.

 

I imagine the speakers would not swap out between these two very different vintage S-45’s.

 

All this brings up an additional two questions.

 

First, would a dead tweeter and a frozen woofer place a strain the amplifier, causing it to reduce volume in a self-protection mode?

 

Second, does this glue issue with the magnets on the later S-45 series also affect the two pairs of S-75 speakers? Again one from the seventies and the other pair from the nineties.

 

Both pairs of S-75’s “appear” to be functioning well.

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Steffen
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Have I missed something here..? None of the speakers you show in the pictures are from the nineties...Confused

The later model of the S-45's are quite different (2-grille). They are known to have foam-rot -but I've never heard they should have the problem with the magnets...(like the old models). And they are not from the nineties -they are from the mid-eighties.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Mon, Apr 2 2012 5:11 AM

I believe I have spoken in error. My newer S-45’s have a raised area at the top of the speaker, much like my 120.2’s with the split grille. The speakers are undoubtedly the same vintage as the BeoCenter 9000, which is 1988 vintage.

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Søren Mexico
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Piaf:

I believe I have spoken in error. My newer S-45’s have a raised area at the top of the speaker, much like my 120.2’s with the split grille. The speakers are undoubtedly the same vintage as the BeoCenter 9000, which is 1988 vintage.

 

Jeff

Jeff you are rambling.

The first S45s looks like this, and are 3 way speakers, was made 1976 to 1977, they have an aluminum frame front and back.

The S45-2 looks like this and are 3 way speakers made 1978-82

Latest S45s looks like this and was made 1983-86

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Mon, Apr 2 2012 6:14 AM

Rambling? Well quite possibly I was, sorry about that.

 

I know a fair deal about Bang & Olufsen products, but by NO means do I present myself as an expert. As such I hope you will forgive my confusion in regard to these speakers.

 

My original and ugly pair of S-45 speakers were a gift from a friend in California who wanted me to use them in conjunction with my Beomaster 2400. There are problems with these speakers beyond appearance and I decided to use my original pair of S-75’s with the 2400.

 

I haven’t seen these speakers in a few years and my “impression” was that the front panel was flat, different from my newest acquisitions. A closer look at my own photos reveals that they are very similar if not quite identical to my newer pair.

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

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