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"An old cupboard" - Master 38 RG

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Dillen
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Dillen Posted: Sun, Mar 25 2012 8:32 AM

This thread was initially started in the old Beoworld forum where it can be found in the archives.
Like all other threads there, it has been made read-only and can no longer be updated so I've decided
to start over here.


An elderly woman put an old cupboard up for sale last december, the story goes like this:
She had it for years and with its suitable height it saw use as the platform for the family telly.
It was empty inside and she thought long and hard about what to put in there. It would be a
shame not to use the considerable amount of storage space it could provide but, knowing that access to
the cupboard contents would be a bit difficult, she decided that the garden chair cushions and carpets
would be about the only perfect things to fit in there since they wouldn't require access more than twice a year.
You see, the problem with this cupboard was that it opened at the top rather than the front so the
big television set had to be lifted off to open the lid and she was not able to do that on her own.
It was a nice looking piece of furniture and it was taken great care of for many years but the day came
when a new flatscreen TV entered the building. With the new purchase fixed directly onto the wall, the
cupboard was now only in the way.
That is, up until now it had served two functions, a primary and a secondary, but from now on it would
only do one, that being the secondary, and that wasn't quite enough to justify its presence so therefore
the garden accessories found other means of winter storage and the cupboard was put up for sale.

I bought it.

The nice old lady asked me what on earth made a person make a roundtrip of apprx 800 Km plus
an expensive bridge in minus 15 degrees C, on extremely icy roads and with high winds to pick up this old thing ?
I told her that the sole reason I did this, was that I have been collecting old radios for more than 35 years.
Not quite understanding the connection, she asked me again: "But why this cupboard, then ?".
I turned it around and pointed at the backside: "You see, it says Bang & Olufsen on the back, it's
an old radiogram cabinet!".
- "Ah..", she said, "- so the heart-shaped cutout with the cloth at the front is where the music would come out?".
- "Exactly!"
She had wondered about that for years and never quite figured it out but she liked the look of it nevertheless.
- "But it's empty", she said, almost excusing herself.
- "Yes, I know", I replied, " - you stated that in the ad, but I hope to fill it up again with what was originally in there".
She wished me the best of luck, surely shaking her head in disbelief as I disappeared around the
first corner, most likely assuming I must be nuts.
Little did she know just how correct her assumption was.

And this is how the story about this Master 38RG project begins. Where it (if it ever) ends, noone knows.

Martin

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sun, Mar 25 2012 8:51 AM

I may have bought a dead horse.
That is, it really IS a nice cupboard but, honestly, there's not a big hope for this beauty to ever become whole again.
Well, I suppose I may be able to fit something in there and I can probably make it play some sounds but
I would never expect it to be all original again.
Not a huge amount were produced, maybe less than a hundred, so finding correct parts to
complete it will be surely prove very difficult, if not downright impossible.
I will update this thread whenever (if ever) any progress will be made with this project.

Martin

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sun, Mar 25 2012 8:51 AM

Not a lot of Master 38RGs were produced and even fewer are known to exist.
Actually, I only know of one complete set.
I know who owns it and I have contacted him for information etc. It would be a huge help to me if I could find out
how things once were inside my cabinet.
However, the owner doesn't seem too fond of communication, I never had a reply from him so I suppose
I am left pretty much on my own and I will have to make do with what little info and photos, I can find on the net
and elsewhere.
Yes Mika, I think the chassis is basically the same as sees use in the tabletop model Master 38K, the
original service manual covers both models but gives no info on the fitting etc.
Finding a Master 38 chassis shoudl not be too difficult but even with a good one at hand there will
be lots of details unknown and questions unanswered.

Under the large lid on top, it should look like this (borrowed photo):

Martin

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sun, Mar 25 2012 8:52 AM

Mine looks like this...

Clearly, I am missing quite a few essentials...

Martin

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Step1 replied on Sun, Mar 25 2012 9:41 AM

Will be quite a peice if you can restore it! Love that radio dial!

Olly

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sun, Mar 25 2012 4:17 PM

Down in the dungeons I found a speaker.
This is a Perma Kino I from a Master 38K. If the radiogram version used the same speaker, it
will be useful for the project.
If I look closely, maybe I can spot holes or other traces from the fitting of the original speaker.
I could have wished for a better condition but repairs can be done to it if I can't find a better one.

Martin

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sun, Mar 25 2012 8:05 PM

I visited a very good friend and fellow B&O collector and picked up this little, sad looking thing.

Martin

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sun, Mar 25 2012 8:08 PM

Being a Master 38K, it has a chassis, a nice dial and glass, power plug and a couple of knobs suitable for my project.
That is, I assume the chassis used in the radiogram and tabletop models were identical.
The speaker could easily turn out to be in better condition than the one, I found the other day but I'm
still not convinced that it is the correct one for the radiogram model. I will have to find out.
Not easy to see in the photos, but the cabinet of this Master 38K is completely warped, most of the veneer has gone and
everything is practically held together with scotch tape. In other words; A good parts donor potential for the project.

Martin

Peter
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Peter replied on Sun, Mar 25 2012 8:29 PM

I am preparing to be amazed - although knowing Martin, this will exceed even my wildest imagination!

Peter

valve1
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valve1 replied on Mon, Mar 26 2012 5:47 AM

Great to see this project is still happening Martin.

Beoradio
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Beoradio replied on Tue, Mar 27 2012 2:45 PM

Hi Martin,

 

Good to see that you are still working on the Master 38 RG.

I'm looking forward to see the end result.

 

Rudy

Søren Hammer
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Looking forward to see how your project is progressing! Smile

Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.

Rich
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Rich replied on Wed, Mar 28 2012 5:54 PM

valve1:

Great to see this project is still happening Martin.

My thoughts exactly.  I was hoping to see this thread reborn sooner rather later.


Dillen
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Dillen replied on Wed, Mar 28 2012 9:03 PM

Thanks guys, I will do my very best but I obviously cannot guarantee succes.

I came across this strange object and just had to pick it up.
If you look very closely, you will know exactly why.

Martin

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Steffen replied on Thu, Mar 29 2012 12:25 AM

Dillen:

I came across this strange object and just had to pick it up.
If you look very closely, you will know exactly why.

Hmm...You already have the dial...So it must be because You miss one of the knobs...Smile

Søren Mexico
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Steffen:

Dillen:

I came across this strange object and just had to pick it up.
If you look very closely, you will know exactly why.

 

Hmm...You already have the dial...So it must be because You miss one of the knobs...Smile

Or maybe the pregnant B&O plaque

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Søren Hammer
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Søren Mexico:

Steffen:

Dillen:

I came across this strange object and just had to pick it up.
If you look very closely, you will know exactly why.

 

Hmm...You already have the dial...So it must be because You miss one of the knobs...Smile

Or maybe the pregnant B&O plaque

Or the wooden control panel that hides under the black leather Whistle

Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Fri, Mar 30 2012 4:55 PM

Søren is spot on !
Actually, the wooden part is not the primary thing;

This is most definitely a 38RG chassis built into a somewhat newer (non-B&O) cabinet.
The nice metal B&O logo badge gives it away from a distance. It belongs above
the dial glass on the Master 38RG.
A close look also reveals two holes under the homemade leather, that will be the holes for the needle cups.
Find of the year !

Martin

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Medogsfat replied on Fri, Mar 30 2012 5:16 PM

Where the heck do you find these things Martin????

I could do a walking tour of the British Isles looking into every second hand shop & barn & not find any of the things you come across (except the ghastly 70's cabinets of course). Unbelievable...

Chris. 

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Fri, Mar 30 2012 6:08 PM

Well Chris, it's not like there are things like this left on every street corner
in Denmark, very far from actually, and I must admit to beeing more than extremely
lucky to find this 1970's cabinet with the 38RG chassis in an ad on the net.
And particularly at this time.
I am slowly parting with most of my collection, mainly on Ebay etc. and I rarely buy
anything anymore so it's not every week I check the selling ads either.
I can hardly believe it myself. Geeked

Off with the baffle.
It's very clear to see that this is an original 38RG baffle.
2 identically sized holes for the needle cups, one larger hole for the needle dispenser,
a smaller hole with perimeter marks from three small screws for the tonearm base
and the remains of a large cutout where the gramophone deck once was.
The latter has been partially filled to make the new leather sit nice.
The dial glass still sits, untouched, with its original wooden fasteners and frame.

I may even be able to use what remains of the original baffle.
At least it will answer a lot of questions regarding hole sizes, placement etc.
Actually, it also reveals that the frontmost 10cm or so with the knobs sits at an angle.
This was new to me, not visible in the (very few) 38RG photos I have access to and
no doubt I would have gotten this detail wrong if I hadn't found this cabinet.

Martin

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tournedos replied on Fri, Mar 30 2012 6:18 PM

My knowledge on gramophones isn't quite up to scratch, it seems...

"Needle cups and needle dispenser"? I can understand the latter, but what are the "cups" for?

--mika

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Fri, Mar 30 2012 6:33 PM

The needle dispenser gives you a fresh needle for each push down on the top part.
The cups are for storing used needles so you won't have to walk every used needle to the door right away.
You see, the very early needles only lasted for a few records, sometimes just one single play so
would have to be replaced quite often.
The needle is held by the tiny fingerscrew visible at the extreme front of the cartridge head, the head
rotates 180deg to ease replacement.
Later, multiplay needles were developed, that would last longer, 5-10 plays or more.

Martin

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Mar 30 2012 11:39 PM

I remember reading that in the early days they used cactus spines for gramophone needles. 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sun, Apr 1 2012 6:02 PM

The chassis must come out now.
Very clean.
A little surface oxidation (rust) towards one end of the metal chassis but nowhere near
the usual amount of dust, dirt, cobwebs etc. found in 1930s sets.
This is definately the top priority chassis to use rather than the first, I found.
The power cord is a round white-ish modern PVC type fitted with the original power plugs.
The cord needs to be of a different type and I still have some of the nice braided PVC type
that I bought from a fellow beoworlder when I did a previous restoration. I will use some of that,
it's safe and looks the part and I now also have the correct plugs, very nice.
Clean chassis and modern power cord. It does suggest that this set was in daily use until
fairly recently. I will take a closer look at the chassis when I get it inside. Maybe I can find
traces of previous repairs etc. that could reveal a little more.
The lower 10cm of this second cupboard, and the bottom plate in particular is quite worm-eaten as
can be seen in the above photo and I'm not sure if there is still some activity so I will
not bring the whole thing indoors.
It will be dismounted outdoors and the empty cupboard discarded.
The baffle, fortunately, is plywood and not affected by the infestation.

Martin

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Thu, Apr 5 2012 8:19 AM

Some work must be done to the chassis, I'm sure, but even then I still miss quite a bit.
The turntable section f.e.;

... err..hmm...let's see, If I can make this beast run, maybe I can use it until (if ever)
something better comes along, even if for nothing more than the fun of it. 

Martin

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Dillen replied on Thu, Apr 5 2012 8:22 AM

It's a B&O G64A record changer. A record changer is a turntable that will automatically change records.
You place the records in a stack, one directly ontop of the other on the center steel rod and press start.
The changer will then push down the first record onto the platter and start playing it.
When done playing the first record, it will push down the second, it will land right ontop of the first
and it will start playing again.
This changer will take up to 8 records and they can even be of different sizes.
Furthermore you can program a pause with the choice of three different lengths between
each record - or between every second record.
The four main pushbuttons on the left are for Start, Repeat, Stop and Change.

In other words, a lot of electronics - eh ?
Wrong ! - It's all mechanical....

Martin

Rich
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Rich replied on Thu, Apr 5 2012 3:40 PM

I have a few two LP sets that are setup for a record changer.  The Soundtrack to "Apocalypse Now" and Frank Zappa's "Sheik Yerbouti" come to mind.

One record will feature sides 1 and 4, the other sides 2 and 3.  You put 1/4 on the bottom with 1 up, then put 2/3 on top of it with 2 up.  The changer will then play side 1 and 2.  Then when you flip the stack over, 3 is ready to go with 4 on top to be played last!  Great if you have a changer, kind of a minor annoyance for those of us who don't.

Growing up in the 70s, the two record players my family had were both changers.  We were always losing the adapter that allowed you to play a stack of 45s (very handy for junior high school dance parties).


Søren Mexico
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I love that motor and gearbox, worm drive, gear wheels and real steel ball bearings,clean it, add new grease and a drop of oil, new brushes, sand and clean collectors, new ball bearings and it will work for another 200 years Laughing

Is it made of aluminum or cast iron ?? 78 RPM only ? adjustable ?

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Søren Mexico
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Rich:
Growing up in the 70s, the two record players my family had were both changers.  We were always losing the adapter that allowed you to play a stack of 45s (very handy for junior high school dance parties).

!959 my parents bought a new radio with all bells and whistles, I got the old radio/turntable "cupboard" and a stack of mixed 78/45/33 records, one of them was a 78 Bill Haley Rock around the clock, beside the radio i had a chair, where i sometimes put the records just played or ready to play, my little sister one day came into my room, Bill Haley on the chair, my sister sat on Bill Haley and broke it, I never forgave her.Sad

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Cleviebaby
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richhaffner:

I have a few two LP sets that are setup for a record changer. The Soundtrack to "Apocalypse Now" and Frank Zappa's "Sheik Yerbouti" come to mind.

One record will feature sides 1 and 4, the other sides 2 and 3. You put 1/4 on the bottom with 1 up, then put 2/3 on top of it with 2 up. The changer will then play side 1 and 2. Then when you flip the stack over, 3 is ready to go with 4 on top to be played last! Great if you have a changer, kind of a minor annoyance for those of us who don't.

Growing up in the 70s, the two record players my family had were both changers. We were always losing the adapter that allowed you to play a stack of 45s (very handy for junior high school dance parties).

All time favorite piece of non-B&O: NAD 7175PE receiver.

Rich,

I think the arrangement of LP sides as described may have been a peculiarly American approach.

I have a few US boxed sets from Angel that are organised in that way but no UK or European sets like it. I think many US LP buyers were still using auto changers even in the late 70s.

Cleve
Rich
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Rich replied on Sat, Apr 7 2012 7:23 PM

Cleviebaby:
richhaffner:

I have a few two LP sets that are setup for a record changer. The Soundtrack to "Apocalypse Now" and Frank Zappa's "Sheik Yerbouti" come to mind.

I think the arrangement of LP sides as described may have been a peculiarly American approach.

Well, we are a lazy lot after all, aren't we?  Embarrassed


Cleviebaby
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Rich,

I'm not sure I can talk - sitting here listening to music whilst writing this post - on the same iPod - so that I don't have to get up at all!

Cleve
Cleviebaby
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Dillen:

This changer will take up to 8 records and they can even be of different sizes. Furthermore you can program a pause with the choice of three different lengths between each record - or between every second record. The four main pushbuttons on the left are for Start, Repeat, Stop and Change.

In other words, a lot of electronics - eh ? Wrong ! - It's all mechanical....

Martin

Martin,

I've being trying to remember any record changing mechanism that offered all those facilities and I'm struggling to.

Looking forward to reading more about this restoration in the future.

Cleve
Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sun, Apr 15 2012 7:57 AM

Thanks for all the comments, greatly appreciated !

The G64A is from the late 1940's so really a bit too new and modern for the radiogram but it will
have to do and it wouldn't be all wrong to imagine a situation where the original deck was replaced
when this smart invention came around. The changer was available as chassis only, you could order one
to build into your homemade cabinet (or to replace a Philips..).
The arrow knob on the left is for a tonefilter, a simple RC filter to cut out more or less needlenoise and/or
motor rumble. The switch on the right is for lighting.
Note those needle cups. They are bakelite and just sits in holes in the chassis surface. They would also
be correct for the old radiogram.

- And they have B&O logos UNDERNEATH of all places !

Martin

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Dillen replied on Fri, May 17 2013 3:59 PM

Things like this take time. Laughing
Today I found a needle dispenser that seems to be correct.

Martin

Søren Mexico
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Slowly getting there, I love to see real vintage come to life again.

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

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Beoradio replied on Fri, May 17 2013 9:43 PM

 

Good to see that you found the time to continue the restoration of this fine radiogram.

Can't wait to see the end result.

 

Rudy

 

 

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Ben_S replied on Fri, May 17 2013 10:41 PM

Fantastic thread Martin. Good luck with the project!

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Hi Martin,

My struggles with the BM900 pale into insignificance against this project. Looks like you're almost in ther home straight....!! Good Luck.

 

Duncan

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Ben_S replied on Wed, Feb 11 2015 7:54 AM

A long time ago now Martin, but did you make any more progress with this one?

Ben

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