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Peter
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Peter Posted: Fri, Mar 1 2013 1:53 PM

One of my colleagues has just deleted the BS4 thread as this was becoming increasingly abusive . 

There was a comment that moderators are apparently not doing anything and don't care about this type of behaviour. This is not the case. Moderation on this site is usually done with a very light hand, though even this is sometimes greeted with horror when done. We do try to be open minded and allow people to develop ideas. 

However, in recent months, the site has become far more aggressive in form and we feel this is not suitable for a family site. I will therefore give warning that such behaviour will not be tolerated and for the next few weeks we will be coming down hard on such posts. Although it goes against my personal feelings, I will be suspending any offending member until they agree to moderate their behaviour. 

I hope this action will prove to be unnecessary and we can return to the polite behaviour seen in the past. In addition, Apple threads will be moved to the relevant area and derails of other threads will not be tolerated. I don't mind off topic posts but the constant return to Apple topics in every thread is making the site unreadable. Even on my Mac!

Peter

bayerische
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Sounds very good Peter. 

 

Looking forward to this. Yes - thumbs up

 

 

Too long to list.... 

tamtapir
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You have my support (for what it is worth...)!

/***

Flappo
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Flappo replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 4:29 PM

NO COMMENT

 

:D

vikinger
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I have missed all of this having reduced my forum visits. However, I can see from the contributor records that there has been a BS 4 thread with a great number of contributions from one half of the electrifying duo who I suspect came perilously close to being banned on a previous occasion when a lot of us gave up on our visits due to just about every thread being hijacked for a personal duel. At that time the moderators mostly maintained too low a profile and left it to other individuals to remonstrate with the offenders.

Peter and the moderators have my full support because if the stupid and thoughtless contributions go unchecked then the forum will just degenerate and anyone who wants an intelligent response to anything will look outside Beoworld.

Graham

valve1
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valve1 replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 4:44 PM

Glad to read this post !

j0hnbarker
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vikinger:

I have missed all of this having reduced my forum visits. However, I can see from the contributor records that there has been a BS 4 thread with a great number of contributions from one half of the electrifying duo who I suspect came perilously close to being banned on a previous occasion when a lot of us gave up on our visits due to just about every thread being hijacked for a personal dual. At that time the moderators mostly maintained too low a profile and left it to other individuals to remonstrate with the offenders.

Peter and the moderators have my full support because if the stupid and thoughtless contributions go unchecked then the forum will just degenerate and anyone who wants an intelligent response to anything will look outside Beoworld.

Graham

I'm no fan of moderation, but please do adopt a more interventionist approach! Hopefully the general direction of travel can then move back towards enthusiasts talking about B&O products that we own/desire/have experience of, rather than just musings and assertions that could be at home on any AV forum rather than one specifically dedicated to B&O.

My own view is that the mods could and should have done more a while back to address this, but I know they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. The drift of regular established members tells it's own story unfortunately.

Best of luck anyhow :)

beocool
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beocool replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 4:51 PM

Glad to read this. The moderators have my full support Yes - thumbs up

 

Vähintään yhdeksänkymmentä prosenttia suomalainen! 

Flappo
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Flappo replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 4:51 PM

family site lol

as if anyone under 40 posts here

JC
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JC replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 4:54 PM

beocool:

Glad to read this. The moderators have my full support Yes - thumbs up

Here here!!!!

 

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 4:58 PM

Suits me sir!Yes - thumbs up

Ban boring signatures!

Lars
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Lars replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 5:01 PM

Strongly supported from my side. I do not like it either but if required there should be an invisible hand. Dear my Adam Smith ;-) 

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olvisab
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olvisab replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 5:09 PM

Hello everybody

I can't find a more impartial judge than you.

"In addition, Apple threads will be moved to the relevant area and derails of other threads will not be tolerated. I don't mind off topic posts but the constant return to Apple topics in every thread is making the site unreadable. Even on my Mac!"

That sounds perfect to me.

 

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Ƨcɑɽɑɱɑnɡɑ
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olvisab:
Hello everybody

Hi olvisab!

Agreed.

Regards,

BYPAHTEC

 

P.S. Thanks Peter!

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olvisab
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olvisab replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 5:24 PM

Hi ɓʋɾɑɳɫɘɮ/BYPAHTEC,

Nothing personal, just collateral damage

surely, too powerfull shots but  the situation required it

Have a nice evening

Best regards

Olivier

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hfat
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hfat replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 5:55 PM

I totally agree!

hfat

Electrified
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vikinger:
I have missed all of this having reduced my forum visits. However, I can see from the contributor records that there has been a BS 4 thread with a great number of contributions from one half of the electrifying duo [...] 

That would be me. I entered into a discussion when I had had enough of Apple fanboyism with no basis in reality. And him having to be dishonest to defend his position. I'm glad to hear that Apple comments now will be moved. I'm as tired of it as the next guy, hence me accepting the discussion when someone praised Apple to no end as a response to my post.

 

vikinger:
[...]who I suspect came perilously close to being banned on a previous occasion when a lot of us gave up on our visits due to just about every thread being hijacked for a personal duel

So what if we came close on some previous occassion.You say that in the same breath without even a comma in between.  I have tidied up a bit, but that doesn't mean I let people spew nonsense unfettered.

With that said, I'm okay with this moderation.

 

 

 

 

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:02 PM

Flappo:

as if anyone under 40 posts here

I'm under 40 :) Just.

I also don't see the need to move comments on Apple products if someone is making a post about quality (or lack of it) and referring to an Apple product in their example. Discussions can cross between topics and involve other brands.

On a serious note, of course there should be some moderation involved. Deleting an entire thread though? Why not just add a warning to the thread and lock it? This way we can see the offending posts and the reason for the closure. Without it, we can only speculate.

Chris Townsend
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Electrified:

That would be me. I entered into a discussion when I had had enough of Apple fanboyism with no basis in reality. And him having to be dishonest to defend his position. I'm glad to hear that Apple comments now will be moved. I'm as tired of it as the next guy, hence me accepting the discussion when someone praised Apple to no end as a response to my post.

So what if we came close on some previous occassion.You say that in the same breath without even a comma in between. I have tidied up a bit, but that doesn't mean I let people spew nonsense unfettered.

With that said, I'm okay with this moderation.

You better have have a bloody good reason to accuse somebody, in this case me of dishonesty. And i do not "defend my position" to you sir. Be gone.

Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.

Electrified
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Screw that, not worth it to be banned for responding in detail to this. So this is the shortened version:

Chris Townsend:
You better have have a bloody good reason to accuse somebody, in this case me of dishonesty. And i do not "defend my position" to you sir. Be gone.

I have: Your posts.

 

Ƨcɑɽɑɱɑnɡɑ
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Electrified:

Chris Townsend:
You better have have a bloody good reason to accuse somebody, in this case me of dishonesty.

I did have a good reason. It was in the deleted thread where you constantly moved the goalposts and made sh.. up as you went along, ending with you ignoring reality and even what you said just a post or two earlier.

 

Chris Townsend:
And i do not "defend my position" to you sir.

No, of course you don't, that's why you argued your position to me, and had to move the goalposts every time you were shown to be wrong.

Chris Townsend:
Be gone.

Do you think incantations work? "Expelliarmus!"

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Had the thread not been moved to somewhere where noone of us can read it and some of the posts deleted it would be obvious to anyone. As it is, I rest assured that anyone who read that thread when it was available and whole will see just what I mean when I talked about dishonesty.

But this thread is not for that. If you feel like asserting more about Apple and iPads with very little basis in reality, be my guest - just don't reply to my posts with that type of nonsense. On the positive side -  with this new moderation I might have a chance of avoiding your posts entirely.

I can not believe that this is happening again -AND IN THIS THREAD!!!

You are an utter sadomasochist.

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MediaBobNY
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How ironic if the moderation thread had to be deleted due to aggressiveness

Peter
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Peter replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:29 PM

Electrified - banned 1 week initially - I suggest a civil tongue  is in order.

Peter

Peter
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Peter replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:31 PM

I don't have issues with mentions of Apple, but will delete or move posts that derail threads. I agree that cross discussion of products is reasonable.

Peter

Peter
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Peter replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:38 PM

I repeat my advice; any uncalled for attacks etc will be dealt with severely at present. Please avoid feeding the trolls - just tell the moderating team.

Peter

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Razlaw replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:55 PM
Thank you to Peter and the other moderators. Totally agree with you.

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linder replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 8:59 PM

Peter:

I don't have issues with mentions of Apple, but will delete or move posts that derail threads. I agree that cross discussion of products is reasonable.

Peter,

I do not envy your predicament of moderating these threads.  Usually these threads start with a question or a suggestion that is quite civil and then unfortunately become somewhat nasty.

Whether it is Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, or maybe Qobuz, they should be treated as a music source for our newer B&O equipment.  For some people, these digital sources are the basis of arguments which descends into rudeness.  I hope this changes.

Thank you.

 

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graemeben replied on Fri, Mar 1 2013 10:25 PM

I am very saddened to read this type of temper driven language on this forum. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but when the discussion topic deteriorates into rudeness, well, no one wins any argument. I wholly support Peter in the actions, but feel saddened that he has been faced with no alternative in order to maintain the integrity of the website. This does not reflect well to visitors of Beoworld. I hope the individuals concerned can accept this and keep their disagreements to themselves rather than decline into public mud slinging.

DMacri
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DMacri replied on Sat, Mar 2 2013 12:10 AM
Thanks, Peter. Fully agreed.

Dom

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Steffen replied on Sat, Mar 2 2013 12:19 AM

Flappo:

family site lol

as if anyone under 40 posts here

 

Your friend Paul W claims to be under 40 -and use every opportunity to tell about it...Whistle

Stan
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Stan replied on Sat, Mar 2 2013 12:49 AM
Sad, but necessary I suppose... Stan
Rich
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Rich replied on Sat, Mar 2 2013 12:52 AM
Sad moderation thread is sad.

Three of the site moderators are the finest example of Gentleman I have met in this New World of the Internet. I have no doubt they will Do The Right Thing.


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vlohjr1 replied on Sat, Mar 2 2013 1:03 AM
Thank you Peter

Regards

Vince
elephant
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I have returned to Beoworld to find this thread top of the list.

My last post was 12 Feb, some 18 days ago ... yes I have been busy, but also Beoworld had changed and I felt discouraged from visiting.

I am sorry I missed the BS4 thread, since I own one :-)

And I apologise for all the times I have taken threads off as at tangent .... they were never meant as "derailings" but rather conversations with people who I have known for almost 10 years.

So I welcome the moderation, and I hope it settles us all down ... and we can return to civility between friends.

BeoNut since '75

Søren Mexico
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elephant:
I am sorry I missed the BS4 thread, since I own one :-)

You didn't miss anything, it was mostly about the fruit company, and thanks to the moderators it now gone.

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

MediaBobNY
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Blackberry?  Banana Republic?  Fruit of the Loom?  Apple Records?  Am I getting warmer?

Søren Mexico
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You are on track, think a bout the old saying, one apple a day ----

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Ƨcɑɽɑɱɑnɡɑ
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Computer companies have/had little whatsoever to do with the ugliness that has befelled BeoWorld the last few months.

That topic, while alway a hot potato on ANY site was not what killed us collectively.

Rather, it was the perpetual deep hamstring slashes from a handful of posters.

Beyond the current GOLD/SILVER/BRONZE membership, it is time to implement something along the lines of the B&o PIN code and keep this site effective and out of the hands of the trolls.

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John
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John replied on Sat, Mar 2 2013 6:28 AM

Peter:

One of my colleagues has just deleted the BS4 thread as this was becoming increasingly abusive . 

There was a comment that moderators are apparently not doing anything and don't care about this type of behaviour. This is not the case. Moderation on this site is usually done with a very light hand, though even this is sometimes greeted with horror when done. We do try to be open minded and allow people to develop ideas. 

However, in recent months, the site has become far more aggressive in form and we feel this is not suitable for a family site. I will therefore give warning that such behaviour will not be tolerated and for the next few weeks we will be coming down hard on such posts. Although it goes against my personal feelings, I will be suspending any offending member until they agree to moderate their behaviour. 

I hope this action will prove to be unnecessary and we can return to the polite behaviour seen in the past. In addition, Apple threads will be moved to the relevant area and derails of other threads will not be tolerated. I don't mind off topic posts but the constant return to Apple topics in every thread is making the site unreadable. Even on my Mac!

Over the last ten years or so, I"ve contributed to a number of different HiFi/AV forums, but have slowly withdrawn from most of them due to circular arguments, many over either brands, or subjectivity v's objectivity in the assessment of audio kit, leading to ad hominen attacks, insults and sometimes threats etc.

Unfortunately mods can't be the ultimate forum police without seeming to restrict free speech on one hand, or allow unbridled personal attacks, gang mentality, and outright nastiness to often prevail.

It's incumbent upon all of us in my view, to consider when writing, the other as a person in real life; would you speak in such a manner to a person in real life?  Certainly I've been spoken to on a couple of exceptionally bellicose forums where some people if they spoke like that to a stranger in a pub, and to the wrong person, are likely to be carried out on a stretcher.

I really hate arguments in real life, and certainly have no time for them on internet forums, and will just avoid.

So if the membership itself does not tone it down, then unfortunately the mods have no choice to but to act unfortunately - it can't be an easy job at all.

I must say though, even as an Apple as well as B&O owner, I find the derailing of threads by repeated comments as to how an Apple product is so much better than B&O somewhat tiresome and unnecessary, and also in particular the constant sniping at B&O as 'overpriced or poorly performing tat' etc - I do think this comes under the heading of trolling, and whilst these sorts of comments are 'opinions' and free speech and all, there is enough of the objectivist within me to expect some sort of backup proof for these sorts of claims, otherwise it is just meaningless noise, and ultimately destructive to B&O to anyone new to B&O's products, or thinking of purchasing them, reading or researching on this site.

I'm all for free speech, and in particular, constructive and fair criticism, but baseless comments that brand X is sooooo much better than B&O type claims are, IMHO, - and without at least as a minimum carefully controlled blind listening tests to support the claims, and/or measurements, - simply nothing more than the unsubstantiated claims commonly found on every other HiFi/AV forum, and something I don't expect to find here.  

B&O is very much a science lead company, with impecable engineering and R&D, and if some folks (trolls?) are going to make wild claims about the inadequacies of B&O kit on engineering or sonic grounds, I expect some professionalism in assessment and facts to back up the arguments made.

Otherwise, it's just plain unfair on the members/owners of B&O, and B&O the company as well IMHO.

In short, whilst there's some difficulties with moderation, i.e too heavy and a forum of fanboys and sycophants as some brand forums are as a result, I'd say trolls ought not to be fed, or they need to back up their arguments with factual evidence, IMHO of course.

I for one will avoid arguments, but will happily continue to support this forum and contribute here, and appreciate hugely that the site exists at all, and the tireless effort the mods and many members put into making the site the usually splendid place that it is.

Kind Regards

John... Smile

 

Peter
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Peter replied on Sat, Mar 2 2013 8:52 AM

elephant:

I have returned to Beoworld to find this thread top of the list.

My last post was 12 Feb, some 18 days ago ... yes I have been busy, but also Beoworld had changed and I felt discouraged from visiting.

I am sorry I missed the BS4 thread, since I own one :-)

And I apologise for all the times I have taken threads off as at tangent .... they were never meant as "derailings" but rather conversations with people who I have known for almost 10 years.

So I welcome the moderation, and I hope it settles us all down ... and we can return to civility between friends.

There are derailings, and derailings! I have no problem with threads that meander but I will act on those that become aggressive with entrenched views.

Peter

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