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BeoSystem 4 and prehistoric Beo4

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65535
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65535 posted on Fri, Dec 24 2021 7:48 PM

On a whim I bought a used BeoSystem 4.

The seller had an old Beo4 remote that he included as part of the deal. My kids think it's the coolest remote they've ever seen.

I've connected the HDMI out of the BS4 to HDMI in on my Sony TV, and have given the BS4 a test HDMI input as well.

The BeoSystem powers on and, for a brief moment, looks entirely happy. I get the BANG & OLUFSEN logo shimmer in the centre of the Sony display and then nothing. Black screen. I can hear it and it gets warm, but that's the extent of my interaction.

As for the Beo4, it's clearly a super ancient version in that it has "TAPE" buttons. I have no idea how to configure it, or whether it'll ever work in this setup, particularly as everything I can find refers to later designs that have "MEM" buttons instead.

My questions are:

  • Would you expect to see something on the Sony TV other than the B&O logo at startup? If it was lacking an input, would it not say "no input" or similar?
  • Is the Beo4 just too old? How does communicate with something like a BeoSystem anyway? All a bit mysterious. Wondering if I cut my losses and look for a BeoRemote One.

Happy xmas!

Beovision Horizon 48, Beolab 17, Beolab 19, Core, Beosound Stage w/ Sony, BeoSystem 4, Beoplay M3

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65535
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65535 replied on Sat, Jan 8 2022 5:54 PM

kallasr:
Transmitter 1 is the way to go.

If you run into trouble connecting wirelessly you might want to disable the 5 Ghz band of your WLAN (helped me as far as I remember).

WISA was not very stable in my setup so I changed to wired connections again.

Ralf

Ralf, apologies, I missed your response. Thank you, I am now testing fine with a Transmitter 1.

I think I had Googled whether the BS4 supported WiSA, and for whatever reason hadn't investigated much beyond the first result I found. Should teach me a lesson really.

Beovision Horizon 48, Beolab 17, Beolab 19, Core, Beosound Stage w/ Sony, BeoSystem 4, Beoplay M3

Millemissen
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The costs for PUC cables is not really worth mentioning - contact Steve Sounds Heavenly for this or your dealer, if you should need that.
Read the User Guide carefully for how to connect things. There is no way around that…..if you have no (B&O) experience and want to do it on your own.

By the way - I would not call the BSys4 ‘antique’ just because it has no support for CEC. In your case you might only want to use it a an audio motor, for which it is excellent (rightly programmed).

You might need to experiment with the already loaded PUC codes….or download new (which can be done online).

 

Why do you want the Beoremote One/BT to control the ATV/Sony?

First of all you must decide whether you want to control the BSys4 with the connected ATV etc and send the picture to the Sony tv (and to turn this on)?

Or if you want to use/control the Sony tv with the connected ATV and route the sound to the BSys4?

Two different approaches, ways to do this.

In the first case - see illustration/example below

In the second case - you will have to connect a sound output of the Sony tv to an input of the BSys4…and choose this for sound control (depending on the speakers you have connected there).

 

MM

 


There is a tv - and there is a BV.

65535
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65535 replied on Sat, Jan 8 2022 8:35 PM

Thanks MM.

I prefer Apple's Siri remote, but my experience with the Horizon was that the BeoRemote is the only viable option when it comes to waking and sleeping. The Horizon has the worst combination of no infrared and no CEC, meaning the Apple TV can't power the Horizon on or off. Something like a BV14 or an Avant would be different given the knowledge I've acquired on the first generation Siri remote's ability to talk the B&O IR frequency.

Anyway, the Horizon therefore has to be controlled via PUC with a BeoRemote, and I'm doing my best to get used to it!

Given the two options you provided, the second of which I'd not fully considered, my understanding is that both would involve a BeoRemote anyway - because the BS4 needs to be woken from sleep in either case, and the Siri remote can't do that. At least, if there is a way, I'm all ears!

Perhaps it was unfair to call the BS4 an antique so I deleted that quip in my edit of my last message (where I also updated the post with a link to a dual PUC cable I'd found on eBay).

Beovision Horizon 48, Beolab 17, Beolab 19, Core, Beosound Stage w/ Sony, BeoSystem 4, Beoplay M3

Millemissen
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Technically the BSys4 ‘needs’ a Beoremote One/IR or a Beoremote One/BT in IR mode - or the Beo4 (best with navi).

P.S. Older Apple remotes had an option to learn ir commands:

https://www.groovypost.com/howto/control-tv-volume-power-apple-tv-remote/

I have no personal experience with this and B&O/BSys4 - but this has been discussed somewhere on the forum.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

65535
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65535 replied on Tue, Jan 11 2022 2:44 PM

re: second option above (using BS4 as the audio engine)

I've bought an S/PDIF Toslink > coaxial Toslink converter in order to go from my Sony TV (optical) to the rear of the BS4 (not optical). I chose a small device from Amazon which could be powered from the USB socket on the rear of the BeoSystem and it's working nicely; I only mention this in the event someone else wants to do the same.

But, I'm now at a bit of a loss how to configure the BS4.

The Apple TV continues to be connected to the Sony TV, where I can control it via the Siri Remote, and the optical audio output from the Sony runs via the converter into to the digital audio in on the BS4.

I've created an "AV" source in the config and set S/PDIF to "On".

But (and I'm guessing here) the BeoSystem doesn't seem to like the fact it is only being fed audio, and shuts down shortly afterwards. If I run an HDMI cable from the Apple TV to the input of the BS4, this doesn't happen.

Is there some sort of Eco setting I've missed?

Beovision Horizon 48, Beolab 17, Beolab 19, Core, Beosound Stage w/ Sony, BeoSystem 4, Beoplay M3

frog
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frog replied on Tue, Jan 11 2022 3:01 PM

The best way to connect is to use hdmi splitter off the appletv and connect that into the beosystem4 as well as the tv - then you need a hdmi edid emulator plugged into the hdmi out of the Beosystem 4 so the Beosystem 4 won’t switch off. Doing it this way means that you don’t need the sp/dif cable and you’ll get full 5.1 sound through the hdmi cable. 

A emulator such as this one should do the trick

 

https://www.amazon.com/gofanco-Prophecy-Emulator-Passthrough-Adapter/dp/B094XP8814/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=edid%2Bemulator&qid=1641913125&sr=8-8&th=1

 

 

65535
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65535 replied on Wed, Jan 12 2022 10:07 AM

Thank you for the suggestion.

I've managed to configure the BS4 such that it plays S/PDIF from the Sony TV without video, without interruption, hooray, but haven't yet got past the BS4 going to sleep when the TV is off and the audio stream is nil. I suspect the HDMI route won't alter this behaviour but will try.

My problem with the BS4 going to sleep is that the only way to wake it is to use the Beo4 or B&O in-app remote, then wait n seconds for it to sort itself out. My family won't stomach this.

I think we've all gotten so used to the no-nonsense, braindead simplicity of HDMI-CEC, and of products like the Stage - which do not require any interaction once installed - that this might be a road to nowhere for me.

Beovision Horizon 48, Beolab 17, Beolab 19, Core, Beosound Stage w/ Sony, BeoSystem 4, Beoplay M3

Millemissen
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65535:

My problem with the BS4 going to sleep is that the only way to wake it is to use the Beo4 or B&O in-app remote, then wait n seconds for it to sort itself out. My family won't stomach this.

I think we've all gotten so used to the no-nonsense, braindead simplicity of HDMI-CEC, and of products like the Stage - which do not require any interaction once installed - that this might be a road to nowhere for me.

That IMO should not be the biggest problem of the world.

And...in my experience CEC is not always reliable.

Looking forward to hear how you get along.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

65535
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65535 replied on Wed, Jan 12 2022 11:13 AM

You're right of course MM, the notion that having to - gasp! - manually power on an appliance is some sort of modern day tragedy is overdramatic nonsense on my part.

But I know full well that I'll get pushback from my users, given the current setup is simplicity itself (press MENU on the Siri remote, that's it).

As a note to any future Google searcher landing here, the S/PDIF route means the volume level from the Sony TV is of course fixed, so to be able to alter the volume on the BS4 I have to:

 

  1. either revert to an older generation Apple Siri remote and teach it the B&O volume IR using a Beo4 remote, which I have actually tried after following this thread but for reasons I can't explain got precisely nowhere,
  2. or I go the HDMI splitter route that frog described above, meaning the TV audio is then variable

 

Beovision Horizon 48, Beolab 17, Beolab 19, Core, Beosound Stage w/ Sony, BeoSystem 4, Beoplay M3

swestland
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65535:

Update!

Discovered my BeoSystem 4 doesn't understand HDMI-CEC meaning I need more cables to go the PUC route.

I have a question:

My Bravia KD-65X9005A does not have a PUC table specific to it. There are a bunch of Sony appliances listed as downloadable PUC entries on the BS4, including PlayStations and Blu-ray players and so on, but no 'Generic Sony Display' or suchlike.

There must be a way to configure this, so that my BeoRemote can control both the Apple TV and the Sony? The BR talks to the BeoSystem via infrared, but whether it's capable of controlling multiple external devices simultaneously is an unknown for me.

** EDIT >>

eBay item as below is a "dual" cable and looks to do what I want?

BeoSystem 4 | RJ45 STB PUC IR Blaster Transmitter for Bang & Olufsen B&O (3 M)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154592971061

Can you update the PUC table in the BeoVision ? See this text: 

Your BeoSystem 4 must have your device equipment loaded into the software list. For example, if you wish to connect an Apple TV and control it through your BeoVision TV and remote control, the setup list for the source connections must show Apple TV or Apple Remote under set-top box. If your BeoSystem does not show your equipment in the list of sources, then a PUC software update may be required. This is carried out by the on-screen menu (when connected to the internet) or via your authorised Bang & Olufsen dealer/installation engineer. If the TV/equipment is connected to the internet, the list can be updated via an online software update. Alternatively, the software can be downloaded to your computer (via the Bang & Olufsen website) and transferred to a USB memory stick. The memory stick can then be plugged into your TV and a software update completed (dependent on specific model).

- Beosound Shape

Millemissen
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I see your dilemma.

However, I would never sacrifice good sound just to be able to skip one single touch on the beoremote (and use the volume control there)…..well, two for turning off, too.

From your listed devices I see, that the Sony has the Stage connected - so it should be pretty good as is.

Maybe in the end you have no need for a BSys4….but it was good to learn a bit about it.

And you can safely sell it, knowing that it works as supposed to.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

frog
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frog replied on Wed, Jan 12 2022 10:53 PM

I’m puzzled. I’ve given you the read0n of why the Beosystem switches off due to the lack of EDID and you talk about CEC - which is quite different. 

65535
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65535 replied on Thu, Jan 13 2022 1:34 PM

My continuing reference to CEC is more a reflection of my mental state Smile

With few exceptions every item of A/V equipment in my home is interoperable via CEC down to the horrid orange/brown plastic 2009 LG monstrosity in the spare room. No cables, no setup files, no hair lost. Stick an Apple TV in an HDMI socket and boom, done.

Beovision Horizon 48, Beolab 17, Beolab 19, Core, Beosound Stage w/ Sony, BeoSystem 4, Beoplay M3

65535
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65535 replied on Fri, Jan 14 2022 5:06 PM

Update.

I've borrowed an 8-port HDMI splitter from work, which is overkill, and worked out why I'm getting odd behaviour when switching the BS4 into standby: it's because I'm powering the A/V tools off the USB on the BeoSystem which goes dead when the unit is in standby.

So to summarise, I'm an idiot Sad

I've setup 4x BL17s and BL19 with the BS4 and am trialling it on the family this weekend. I still need a centre channel that I don't currently have, and am browsing eBay for a used 7.2 unless anyone has a better suggestion.

Having wired up an IR-eye with the correct cable, a final snag is my Beo4 is I believe too early for the BeoSystem: it lacks the navigation button. I can do everything from set the volume, display menus, and so on, but not go up and down the menu entries. I've had to steal the BeoRemote One from the Horizon.

The Stage has been decommissioned. I'd forgotten just how superior the sound is from a proper surround setup. The Stage is good, but it's good like a BeoSound 1, i.e. 'modern good' and no replacement for old fashioned separated sound.

Beovision Horizon 48, Beolab 17, Beolab 19, Core, Beosound Stage w/ Sony, BeoSystem 4, Beoplay M3

Millemissen
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Be sure to get that 7.2 for the center channel!

That would be a killer setup Smile

By the way - you can navigate in the menus with the old Beo4 when you user 1,2.3 etc downwards for the entries in the menu.

But do get the Beo4/Navi anyway - it will make things a lot easier.

 

Looking forward to hear what you and the family think, once setup properly.

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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