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Are B&O having a laugh with the Contour?

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andy_js
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andy_js Posted: Sun, Aug 15 2021 2:54 PM
I’ve been looking at upgrading my BV11 to a newer TV and would like to share this observation I’ve made I’ve made about the Beovision Conour.

I can order a 48” LG C1 with a BeoSound Stage and BeoRemote One from Peter Tyson for £2599. On the same site I can spec a Beovision Contour with no stand or cover for £5200. That means the Beovision Contour with no stand or cover is £2601 more than the LG C1 bundle. In other words, I can have two TV setups for the price of one BV Contour, and that doesn’t even include a stand or cover! What am I missing? Is the frame really built to such a high standard that it justifies more than half the total cost of the Contour? I have serious doubts. I think they are just having a laugh.
Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, Aug 15 2021 3:31 PM

I think most concede it is quite a bit too expensive (even my dealer thinks so)

Of course, there were those on the release thread who passionately argued that the extra (i.e a frame) is worth the premium.

A standalone product such as this (no expansion to extra speakers, no motorised stands etc etc) should have been closer to 4k rather than just above 5k.

Get ready for the onslaught of posts arguing that the value proposition is perfectly OK.

That would place an awfully high price on the looks - its nice, though still looks like a cheaper knock off BV11.

 

andy_js:
I’ve been looking at upgrading my BV11 to a newer TV and would like to share this observation I’ve made I’ve made about the Beovision Conour.

 

 

I can order a 48” LG C1 with a BeoSound Stage and BeoRemote One from Peter Tyson for £2599. On the same site I can spec a Beovision Contour with no stand or cover for £5200. That means the Beovision Contour with no stand or cover is £2601 more than the LG C1 bundle. In other words, I can have two TV setups for the price of one BV Contour, and that doesn’t even include a stand or cover! What am I missing? Is the frame really built to such a high standard that it justifies more than half the total cost of the Contour? I have serious doubts. I think they are just having a laugh.

 

BenSA
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BenSA replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 7:39 AM

You also paying for the internal speaker system Contour not just the frame. 

I also presume you get a BeoRemote One with it as well which isn't a cheap remote. 

matador43
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matador43 replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 9:54 AM

BenSA:

You also paying for the internal speaker system Contour not just the frame. 

I also presume you get a BeoRemote One with it as well which isn't a cheap remote. 

 

andy_js:
I can order a 48” LG C1 with a BeoSound Stage and BeoRemote One from Peter Tyson for £2599.

 

andy_js
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andy_js replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 10:00 AM

Either I was looking at the 55" model by mistake or Peter Tyson just adjusted their prices.  The 48" Contour (minus fret and stand, but with a remote) is now listed as £4500.  That would make the aluminium frame and wood panels only £1901.

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BenSA replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 10:18 AM

matador43:

BenSA:

You also paying for the internal speaker system Contour not just the frame. 

I also presume you get a BeoRemote One with it as well which isn't a cheap remote. 

 

andy_js:
I can order a 48” LG C1 with a BeoSound Stage and BeoRemote One from Peter Tyson for £2599.

 

I am not saying its not expensive but looks wise a LG with a Stage doesn't look vaguely as nice as the Contour. 

matador43
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matador43 replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 10:29 AM

BenSA:
I am not saying its not expensive but looks wise a LG with a Stage doesn't look vaguely as nice as the Contour. 

That was not meant to argue but to clarify. I'm not in "The League" for that amount of money for a TV, mostly because I don't watch TV enough.
But if I could afford it and beyond a certain point I would do it just because it's a beautiful object only and it has to stand somewhere obvious in a room.
(That would apply for a BV14, BV Horizon, less for a Contour and not at all for an Harmony!) meaning that if you're not counting and you are a B&O customer who want beautiful things, you don't care it is 4000, 5500 or 7000 €/£/$.

BenSA
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BenSA replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 11:26 AM

matador43:

BenSA:
I am not saying its not expensive but looks wise a LG with a Stage doesn't look vaguely as nice as the Contour. 

That was not meant to argue but to clarify. I'm not in "The League" for that amount of money for a TV, mostly because I don't watch TV enough.
But if I could afford it and beyond a certain point I would do it just because it's a beautiful object only and it has to stand somewhere obvious in a room.
(That would apply for a BV14, BV Horizon, less for a Contour and not at all for an Harmony!) meaning that if you're not counting and you are a B&O customer who want beautiful things, you don't care it is 4000, 5500 or 7000 €/£/$.

I do understand what you are saying, it does make perfect sense 

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moxxey replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 1:36 PM

andy_js:

Either I was looking at the 55" model by mistake or Peter Tyson just adjusted their prices.  The 48" Contour (minus fret and stand, but with a remote) is now listed as £4500.  That would make the aluminium frame and wood panels only £1901.

That's a fair-ish price for those materials and from a premium brand. Also, remember B&O has limited economies of scale on these higher-end products. ie. they sell thousands, not hundreds of thousands.

Obviously the shock is when you add the stand on top of that. That's when it gets seriously pricey. And don't forget you don't get PUC control (so can't control a Sky Q box), you don't get external speaker support.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 1:52 PM

The premium is pretty big 

From the Peter Tyson website

Contour 48 with basic fret cover, floor stand and included BR One = 5750

LG 48 inch (999) + Stage (1200) + floor stand (600) + BR One (300) = 3100.

 

Comparing 55 inches sizes the Contour comes to 6350, the sum of the parts comes to 3600 (C1) or a bit more for a G1....but still around 2000 extra.

Either way - a lot extra, unless you value the framed Contour looks that much,

There is no way the Contour looks as classy as the BV10/11/14 - so its far from the easier call that a BV11 investment was, for example.

 

 

Millemissen
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I wonder what is wrong with the BV11, since it has to go?

MM

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andy_js
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andy_js replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 2:28 PM

There's nothing wrong with the BV11 other than the fact that it's starting to show its age (no 4K or HDR).

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BeoJosh replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 2:46 PM

It's not for everyone, but perhaps I'm that unique B&O customer. I have a Contour 48 in gold/light oak in our guest room and I love it. Yes, it's a large premium over separates and not worth it on specs alone. But ultimately it was worth it for me for the aesthetics, because I wanted a full B&O solution, it completed the look of the room, and the finish complemented the other B&O products in the home. We did not need an Eclipse or Harmony there.

We had an LG and Stage with an STB bracket there prior, and as well made and beautiful as the STB stand is, it did not look as finished on the back as we would've liked compared to our B&O TVs, so we moved it to the garage for workouts and bought the Contour, which wasn't available when we made our original order. We wanted the flexibility of being able to float the TV in the room if we placed it elsewhere or moved, and given the already significant investment in B&O the extra money wasn't too prohibitive given the longevity we hope it will have and the enjoyment of it in the meantime.

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Sandyb:

The premium is pretty big 

From the Peter Tyson website

Contour 48 with basic fret cover, floor stand and included BR One = 5750

LG 48 inch (999) + Stage (1200) + floor stand (600) + BR One (300) = 3100.

 

Comparing 55 inches sizes the Contour comes to 6350, the sum of the parts comes to 3600 (C1) or a bit more for a G1....but still around 2000 extra.

Either way - a lot extra, unless you value the framed Contour looks that much,

There is no way the Contour looks as classy as the BV10/11/14 - so its far from the easier call that a BV11 investment was, for example.

 

 

These prices that you compare, are they with the same price for the LG C1?

Because B&O use the recommended sales price of the C1, and not the price from Best Buy.

But if you ask they can sell it for the same price. So I am not sure that the prices you write give a good indication of what you are paying for the aluminium. As some of it is that you pay more for a LG C1, and that you do not need to.

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 4:10 PM

Makes little difference if I use the C series (for 48 inch) - adds a couple of hundred over the 999 quoted above.

And no these are prices all from Peter Tyson, who retail both LG and B&O in an official capacity, so not some discount big box store, which I think Is your implication.

Whichever way you cut it, the Contour at 48 and 55 inches is around 2000 more than the sum of its parts.

If one values the looks of the Contour at around 2000 extra, then its no issue.

As for discounts available on the Contour, which would bring down the 2000 premium - thats hard to comment on, as some seem able to get a good discount, others maybe less so.

For the Eclipse / Harmony, it seems fairly clear that the retail price is supposed to adjust lower as the panel price falls through the year.

Whether that is the same for the Contour, I'm not sure.

 

 

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OlivierC replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 5:02 PM
Sandyb:

If one values the looks of the Contour at around 2000 extra, then its no issue.

I tend to agree with Sandyb‘s post, especially this part I have quoted.

Still I find hard to justify the difference in terms of RRP between the Contour, 6.100 Euro w/ wall bracket, and the Horizon, 4.500 Euro with PUC, Powerlink and WiSA.

We can’t blame inflation for this.

IMHO, the Contour is still an assembly of existing products in a better looking package, so again it’s just a matter of personal opinion about the value allocated to aesthetics.

Market is the king, so if B&O can sell many Contours with a 2 grand extra, well done, it’s healthier for the company! Smile

Olivier
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I've visited the B&O factory more than once... and can assure you that it takes a lot of work in doing the aluminium. 2K is in my opinion a descent surplus for the frame and stand. And that's just the production of the aluminium. Design is also not done in 2months... prototyping, test production, marketing, settting up the polishing robots. 2K extra seems more than fair if they want to sell the set with a profit.

Karel.

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Sandyb replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 5:33 PM
And I think the broader issue, over and above the price, is that you’d be buying a 5.5/6k TV that cannot be expanded with other speakers, nor has a motorised stand or PUC.

Funny though it sounds, the Eclipse seems a better buy , despite the higher price, simply because of it’s greater flexibility.

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Sandyb:

And I think the broader issue, over and above the price, is that you’d be buying a 5.5/6k TV that cannot be expanded with other speakers, nor has a motorised stand or PUC.

Funny though it sounds, the Eclipse seems a better buy , despite the higher price, simply because of it’s greater flexibility.

And that is, despite the ‘lower’ price of the Contour, I’m looking into the Eclipse!
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@OliverC

Just like kuyttendaele I have visited the factory ‘more than once’.

I can asure you that this Beovision is not just an ‘assembly of existing products in a better looking package’.

Yes, the tv is the LG-tv and the sound system is basicly the Stage and both can be controlled with the Beoremote One - but there is a great deal of craftsmanship and efford gone into this ‘better looking package’.

I don’t know, whether you have seen the BV Contour in the flesh, touched it to feel the quality of the ‘package’, but most people who have or own it, are impressed. IMO it is just as or even more genuine than what we know from the BV10/11/14.

Yes, it is a lot of money - everything B&O is for different reasons a lot of money.

But the asked for prize of the Contour is not too much, also concidering the costs of the materials used.

The BV Contour is simply something else than an LG-tv and the BS Stage.

Whether someone will want to pay the more that the Contour cost, is (of course) his/her own personal decision - but that should not be done without having experienced the Contour in real life.

 

@Sandyb

A lot of people do not care for things like PUC control and expanding with more speakers - this is an offer for those people.

Those who need a greater flexibity can go for the Eclipse/Harmony.

I can easily recommend this BV - although it is not one, that I personally would want to buy myself……that is, if I wanted to buy one for my wife as her personal tv ;-)))

 

MM

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 8:45 PM

I've seen the Contour in the flesh a few times - and it is nowhere near as impressive or elegant or luxurious as the BV10 / 11 / 14

They looked expensive, the Contour looks somewhat less than that.

One may subjectively like the Contour, and I'm by no means arguing its poor, but objectively it would be hard to argue it looks anywhere near as classic or luxurious as the 11 / 14 etc.   Yes they were more expensive, but they also offered a lot more functionality wise.

OLED panels of 48/55 inch are not much more than 1k.  Adding a nice sound bar, remote and frame shouldn't make the whole package 5.5-6k.

Good that they offer a simpler BV, but few would raise eyebrows if it was 4000/4250.

People have debated since the Eclipse launch what actually constitutes a BV - well, the Contour really does pose that question!

 

Millemissen:

@OliverC

Just like kuyttendaele I have visited the factory ‘more than once’.

I can asure you that this Beovision is not just an ‘assembly of existing products in a better looking package’.

Yes, the tv is the LG-tv and the sound system is basicly the Stage and both can be controlled with the Beoremote One - but there is a great deal of craftsmanship and efford gone into this ‘better looking package’.

I don’t know, whether you have seen the BV Contour in the flesh, touched it to feel the quality of the ‘package’, but most people who have or own it, are impressed. IMO it is just as or even more genuine than what we know from the BV10/11/14.

Yes, it is a lot of money - everything B&O is for different reasons a lot of money.

But the asked for prize of the Contour is not too much, also concidering the costs of the materials used.

The BV Contour is simply something else than an LG-tv and the BS Stage.

Whether someone will want to pay the more that the Contour cost, is (of course) his/her own personal decision - but that should not be done without having experienced the Contour in real life.

 

@Sandyb

A lot of people do not care for things like PUC control and expanding with more speakers - this is an offer for those people.

Those who need a greater flexibity can go for the Eclipse/Harmony.

I can easily recommend this BV - although it is not one, that I personally would want to buy myself……that is, if I wanted to buy one for my wife as her personal tv ;-)))

 

MM

 

Steffen
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Steffen replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 8:56 PM

@andy_js

You talk about "upgrading your BV11"... You are aware, that the price of the BV11 was much higher back then, than the price of the Contour today?

Why didn't you think the BV11 was too expensive when you bought that?

I think we have had this debate a little too often, when B&O launch a new product. The answer is simple - If you think it is too expensive, then it is not for you... Wink

From what I have heard, the Contour is selling quite well... And that's what matters. Some people simply want a standalone TV that looks good. If you want a cheaper solution, then buy something else... 

Why do some people buy Rolex watches or Gucchi bags..? Do you tell them: "Oh -its way too expensive - you can buy cheaper watches or bags that does the same job"..?

Some people want that extra luxury, and can afford it - others don't. If you don't want it, don't buy it... It's as simple as that.

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benoit replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 9:14 PM

I think that the price has as well to do with the fact that for this TV you don't need an extra TV furniture. Most of the people will use the floor stand. And a nice TV furniture or low cabinet from a well known brand or designer is quite often much more than 2000€...

LG 48 inch (999) + Stage (1200) + floor stand (600) + BR One (300) + nice furniture >= Contour 48 price!

An here is my 'problem' : for a small BeoVision I would have preferred it to have a more classical (rectangular) shape that I could easily put on a furniture. The Contour 48 on my 60 cm high back lacquered frosted glass cabinet would look really strange and bulky :-( . I miss very much the Horizon shape and its nice simple easel stand. My only chance now to have a BeoVision in a not so far future is to wait the 42 oled panels... if ever B&O launch one day a small TV.

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benoit replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 9:32 PM

Steffen:
Why do some people buy Rolex watches or Gucchi bags..? Do you tell them: "Oh -its way too expensive - you can buy cheaper watches or bags that does the same job"..?

For Gucci bags I don't know. But a Rolex watch will hold it's value and even increase it over the years. I don't think any BeoVision will do the same. Big Smile

But I agree that all the 3 are exemples of 'perfect' manufacturing and they are made to bring you some pleasure!

andy_js
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andy_js replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 9:41 PM
My 40” BV11 with a motorised stand was virtually the same price as the 48” Contour is now with the floor stand. I felt it was worth the price because it was a fully integrated setup (surround sound processor, PUC, support for sharing audio using BeoLink multi-room and running in an integrated setup with the Moment).
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Sandyb replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 9:52 PM

The Rolex example is silly

Rolex make watches a certain level of luxury and finish, and functionality.

The equivalent would be if Rolex made a model that sort of looked like the Submariner, but with fewer functions (eg no date window, no second hand), a clearly much less nice finish, but charged 75% of the full Submariner, when at the same time Tudor make the same thing for less (than the 75% price).

It would not be well received by the Rolex community.

The answer that "if its too expensive dont buy it" doesn't really deal with the critique being offered.

 

 

Steffen:

@andy_js

You talk about "upgrading your BV11"... You are aware, that the price of the BV11 was much higher back then, than the price of the Contour today?

Why didn't you think the BV11 was too expensive when you bought that?

I think we have had this debate a little too often, when B&O launch a new product. The answer is simple - If you think it is too expensive, then it is not for you... Wink

From what I have heard, the Contour is selling quite well... And that's what matters. Some people simply want a standalone TV that looks good. If you want a cheaper solution, then buy something else... 

Why do some people buy Rolex watches or Gucchi bags..? Do you tell them: "Oh -its way too expensive - you can buy cheaper watches or bags that does the same job"..?

Some people want that extra luxury, and can afford it - others don't. If you don't want it, don't buy it... It's as simple as that.

 

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andy_js:
My 40” BV11 with a motorised stand was virtually the same price as the 48” Contour is now with the floor stand. I felt it was worth the price because it was a fully integrated setup (surround sound processor, PUC, support for sharing audio using BeoLink multi-room and running in an integrated setup with the Moment).

Still wondering what is wrong with having the BV11!

If you really want a ‘more modern’ tv….and you want to maintain some of the virtues of the BV11, the BV Contour (and even more the LG/Stage combination) is the wrong way to look.

You’ll need the Eclipse/Harmony - otherwise you will have to get acoustumed to the fact of getting something, that is excellent picture and soundwise, but does not have the funcionallity of your current BV11.

Only you can answer that.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

OlivierC
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OlivierC replied on Tue, Aug 17 2021 1:34 AM
Hello MM,

I didn’t want to underestimate the B&O craftsmanship, the Contour is a beautiful set and it’s playing on a different league compared to all the regular TVs, at the same time I am not willing to hijack the thread to a Cost Breakdown / Perceived Value exercise.

Here I am just an enthusiast sharing an opinion. Beer

Getting back to comparisons within the B&O range, BV 10/11/14 you have mentioned were exquisite products with anti glare glass panels etc. and packed with more features, while they were a tad more expensive then the Contour when new.

On my previous message I was thinking about the Horizon, that also had B&O craftsmanship in it - admittedly not at the same level of the Contour - plus other relevant features.

There is a significant delta between the two, without considering that the 55” option is increasing the gap with a price list of 7.600 Euro, +1.500 Euro than the 48” Contour and +3.100 Euro than the 48” Horizon.

I am not complaining in general about the B&O prices, I am trying to compare B&O with B&O but I am struggling in finding a rationale in this specific price policy.

Of course if we have a “money is no object” approach, then we are all off topic.

IMHO I find hard to justify such price differences but again, it is only a personal point of view, while most importantly we all want to see B&O revenue and profit going up!

If this price list works, don’t fix it! Smile

That’s why I see your point as a valid and alternative perspective and I am not only perfectly fine with it, but I read the comments from you and all the senior members with interest as you have a deep knowledge of all-things-B&O! Yes - thumbs up

Thanks.

Olivier
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Steffen replied on Tue, Aug 17 2021 8:24 AM

Sandyb:

The Rolex example is silly

Rolex make watches a certain level of luxury and finish, and functionality.

The equivalent would be if Rolex made a model that sort of looked like the Submariner, but with fewer functions (eg no date window, no second hand), a clearly much less nice finish, but charged 75% of the full Submariner, when at the same time Tudor make the same thing for less (than the 75% price).

It would not be well received by the Rolex community.

The answer that "if its too expensive dont buy it" doesn't really deal with the critique being offered.

 

Talking about silly examples - you win the price...

You're talking about "much less nice finish"... My point is, that if one buy the Contour, you'll get a much nicer finish/high end materials than if you buy the LG screen alone with a Stage.The Contour is not a downgrade of anything - it is an "upgrade" of a LG tv - not that you get better picture - but you get a luxury frame, that some people want to pay for...
Then you talk about "if Rolex made a model that looked like another, but with fewer functions"... oh my...Surprise
- this is NOT about a model that "looks like another"... it is a model with added extras. So your example is silly.

My point is that some people want to pay extra for that good look - they don't expect to get a "better" TV. - and they certainly don't care about what you think.

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Steffen replied on Tue, Aug 17 2021 8:34 AM

andy_js:
My 40” BV11 with a motorised stand was virtually the same price as the 48” Contour is now with the floor stand. I felt it was worth the price because it was a fully integrated setup (surround sound processor, PUC, support for sharing audio using BeoLink multi-room and running in an integrated setup with the Moment).

You're talking about a 40" compared to a 48"...If you will compare prices, it would be more correct to compare the 46" BV11 with the 48" Contour.
The BV 11 series was generally much more expensive than the Contour, if we compare screen sizes.
Do you remember the price of the 55" BV 11?

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andy_js replied on Tue, Aug 17 2021 8:56 AM

IIRC I paid £5500 for the TV and £1200 for the stand, so £6700 in total.  That's not far off the £6550 for the Contour with floor stand and fabric cover.

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andy_js replied on Tue, Aug 17 2021 8:58 AM

My bad.  That was the 55".  That 48" is only £5550.

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Sandyb replied on Tue, Aug 17 2021 8:58 AM

Well, I'm sorry if it was badly explained by me,

But the response that "why do people buy Gucci when much cheaper things are available" is a throwaway explanation.

In the end considering the Contour price, potential customers are comparing to other B&O as much as they are comparing to the LG combination. Especially when the LG / Stage combination is so close to the Contour, and even sold by B&O dealers. So comparing both up and down is logical.

For me, the fact that.a 55 inch LG OLED can be had for around 1000, wrapping it and the sound bar in a frame shouldn't raise the package to around 5500-6000. Especially when that investment of 5500/6000 offers no further flexibility.  

If you're floor standing either the Contour or LG / Stage combination, the point someone made about having to buy extra nice furniture is irrelevant.

But anyway, if you like the frame / looks of the Contour enough, then the premium will be comfortable.

To me, it looks nowhere near as classy, luxurious or timeless as the BV11 / BV14. And while those were even more expensive, some of that extra is surely accounted for by the extra functionality.  Heck, even my dealer thinks item Contour is quite a bit too expensive.

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moxxey replied on Tue, Aug 17 2021 10:48 PM

Millemissen:

@Sandyb

A lot of people do not care for things like PUC control and expanding with more speakers - this is an offer for those people.

Maybe. But there's a LOT of Sky users in the UK and lack of PUC means the Sky Q box has to be controlled via the Sky remote - very frustrating.

In fact, realistically for an LG, you really need to keep the LG remote close by, too, if you want to control the settings.

andy_js
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andy_js replied on Wed, Aug 18 2021 9:07 AM

I always found the PUC thing to be kind of clunky.  On my BV11 at least there is a noticeable lag.  I was hoping the LG based sets would be able to use HDMI-CEC to control my Sky box instead, but I'm getting the impression that's not the case.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Wed, Aug 18 2021 9:43 AM

Seems as if thats the case - i.e the LG remote cant properly control Sky Q.

All of the protocols are limited to one degree or another - they can do the basics, but not the more advanced stuff on the (in this case) Sky Q remote.

I use PUC to control my Sky Q, and in most cases its fine. But if I want to search for something on the Sky home page, and its not always easy to find something, the Sky Q's voice search is useful.     A PUC enabled Beoremote One obviously doesn't have a voice command button. And the same goes for using the voice search on an Apple TV, which the Siri remote can do, but the BR One cannot.

In the end PUC is fine, works well enough for me, but it has its limitations.

And the lag is pretty minor in my setup, compared to the Sky Q remote itself.

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