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Beosystem 4

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pauliander
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pauliander posted on Mon, Jul 26 2021 7:07 PM
Hi guys, just a couple of small questions on the Beosystem 4 which I intend to buy.

The Beosystem would be coupled to 2 Beolab 5 speakers and a Beolab 7 center speaker. Over time I would then add 2 rear speakers. Input would be a blu ray player and hdmi out to a projector.

My questions:

1/ Is it possible to obtain a decent 3.2 sound with these speakers? Over time a decent 5.0 sound without needing an additional subwoofer for the .1 channel? With that I mean full activation of the subwoofers just as in a regular 5.1 surround system? I now use the BL5 in stereo mode (feed by coax from TV out) but I hardly can hear the subwoofers in movies…

2/ Is it possible to link an apple TV and airplay music from the iphone without needing to activate the projector?

3/ When I would upgrade the projector over time to a 4K projector, I would use the Beosystem only for audio and send 4k video directly to the projector. In that case, would it be possible to program the Beosystem such that I could use it without needing on screen display? I would basically only shift between stereo and cinema modus, via remote control. Or it there a need to have on screen display for booting, rebooting, settings, etc.

As always I am very grateful for your expert advice!

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BeoMatthew
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Obviously these threads have value beyond the OP's specific needs so it bears mentioning that the BeoSystem 4 is essentially non-functional as a modern AVR. It doesn't process contemporary audio or video, nor does it have internal support for streaming music in the modes commonly used today. Most folks would be better off with a high-quality AVR with pre-amp outs. I chose the NAD T778 and have been thrilled with it.

Understandably, if someone is so deep in the BeoLink Multiroom eco-system that a non-BeoLink piece would cause disruption then by all means... obtain the beast and whatever little gremlins you need to make it work.

I'd suggest investing in a good control system, if only for unified video control. I have Control4 with the Neeo remote and it's wonderful and has a very "B&O" feel to it. I expect the next gen will be even better.

 

pauliander
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I have bought the Beosystem 4 and I am studying its functionalities. I have questions that perhaps some of you have already solved:

1/ using Apple TV 4k directly to a 4K screen: I am planning the use HD Fury AVR key with Apple TV as input and split the first output to the screen and the audio output to the Beosystem 4. My question: Do I need to connect the HDMI output of the Beosystem 4 as well to the screen? Of course I would then need to select the other screen input (from the HD Fury) with 4K material. Can this be automated in a sort of way?

2/ MM suggested above to use a second Apple TV for music use (from the iPhone for example). I like that idea because it allows for a different group of speakers setting (stereo). In that case the Apple tv can be linked directly to a HDMI input of the Beosystem. Is it possible to avoid the use of the screen? Beojeff pointed out that this setting does not work with Apple tv. Is an Airport express or a Belkin airplay streamer a better option? Problem is that these have a toslink output requiring conversion to coaxial etc… Anybody with a practical solution for Apple music?

Thank you!
beojeff
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What is the brand of your screen? I ask because if it is a Samsung 4K TV it does not have Dolby Vision -- which could pose a problem with the Apple TV 4K. I use an HD Fury Integral 2. It's very important that you configure the HD Fury splitter for the correct EDID. This is because the Apple TV 4K senses information about your screen over the HDMI cable. It also senses your audio capabilities. Since the 2 HDMI connects are sending very different info, you need to set the correct EDID to trick the Apple TV 4K into sensing the correct video and audio capabilities. To make this much easier, I bought the HDFury dongle that lets you program these via an iphone app over bluetooth. HBO Max on the Apple TV 4K causes me problems because it thinks my Samsung TV should be capable of Dolby Vision when it isn't. So I get a blank screen when playing 4K movies on HBO Max. I don't have this problem with the apps on the Apple TV. Even with the correct EDID, this is still an issue.HBO Max will not give you an option to play the 1080p version when it thinks you have a 4K screen.

I think that you'll still want an HDMI connection between the BeoSystem 4 and your screen. You need this to be able to manage all of the BS4 settings and to get the menu overlay on non-4K sources.I think the BS4 will even get upset with you if you don't have it connected to a screen.

I actually have TWO Apple TVs connected to my BS4: one for when I watch the rare 4K content and another for non-4K content. I find that I use the 1080p Apple TV 95 percent of the time!

Something else to keep in mind is that many 4K UHD players will not play DVD properly. Therefore, if you still have a DVD library, you might want a UHD player AND a bu-ray player.

The Apple TV's PUC tells the BS4 that it's a video source, so you can't set it to come on without turning the screen on. You CAN, however, set audio sources to play without turning on the screen. Therefore, you could connect an Apple TV or Airport express the the BS4 and use a PUC for an audio source and possibly get the source to play without turning on the screen.

You asked about automating switching between HDMI inputs of your screen. I do this with a BeoLink Gateway and a Global Cache iTach. You can write macros in the BLGW to have the iTach send out IR commands to switch the HDMI inputs on your screen based on which source is playing. It's a costly solution, but you asked!

pauliander
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beojeff:

What is the brand of your screen? I ask because if it is a Samsung 4K TV it does not have Dolby Vision -- which could pose a problem with the Apple TV 4K. I use an HD Fury Integral 2. It's very important that you configure the HD Fury splitter for the correct EDID. This is because the Apple TV 4K senses information about your screen over the HDMI cable. It also senses your audio capabilities. Since the 2 HDMI connects are sending very different info, you need to set the correct EDID to trick the Apple TV 4K into sensing the correct video and audio capabilities. To make this much easier, I bought the HDFury dongle that lets you program these via an iphone app over bluetooth. HBO Max on the Apple TV 4K causes me problems because it thinks my Samsung TV should be capable of Dolby Vision when it isn't. So I get a blank screen when playing 4K movies on HBO Max. I don't have this problem with the apps on the Apple TV. Even with the correct EDID, this is still an issue.HBO Max will not give you an option to play the 1080p version when it thinks you have a 4K screen.

I think that you'll still want an HDMI connection between the BeoSystem 4 and your screen. You need this to be able to manage all of the BS4 settings and to get the menu overlay on non-4K sources.I think the BS4 will even get upset with you if you don't have it connected to a screen.

I actually have TWO Apple TVs connected to my BS4: one for when I watch the rare 4K content and another for non-4K content. I find that I use the 1080p Apple TV 95 percent of the time!

Something else to keep in mind is that many 4K UHD players will not play DVD properly. Therefore, if you still have a DVD library, you might want a UHD player AND a bu-ray player.

The Apple TV's PUC tells the BS4 that it's a video source, so you can't set it to come on without turning the screen on. You CAN, however, set audio sources to play without turning on the screen. Therefore, you could connect an Apple TV or Airport express the the BS4 and use a PUC for an audio source and possibly get the source to play without turning on the screen.

You asked about automating switching between HDMI inputs of your screen. I do this with a BeoLink Gateway and a Global Cache iTach. You can write macros in the BLGW to have the iTach send out IR commands to switch the HDMI inputs on your screen based on which source is playing. It's a costly solution, but you asked!

I really appreciate your answer Beojeff Smile !

My screen is an older Sony 75kd8505 4k TV (without HDR10, Dolby Vision, …) from 2017. I am planning to use only the apps from the Apple TV (not HBOmax as I am living in Belgium and not any other external device like DVD or blu ray player, I use these with my projector on a different location. I actually intended to use the Beosystem 4 there first but changed plans… perhaps later).

I agree that content played from the Apple TV is a mix of 1080p, 4k, HDR, … towards the screen. But I would use a straight passthrough from the HDFury (splitting the audio towards the Beosystem) wouldn’t that be ok? I mean the Integral 2 solution is perhaps overkill for my needs? Doesn’t the TV output the resolution it gets (eg 1080p) and when it’s not capable (eg HDR10) it will then play lower quality? That’s what happening currently with the internal tv apps but I have not used an apple tv yet.

For music I see your point. By using a PUC for an audio source the Beosystem will not turn on the screen. However, is that possible using HDMI from the apple tv or do you refer to the older apple tv versions with toslink output?

pauliander
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Thanks for explaining, well understood! I have looked to the instruction movie of AVR Key and via the GoBlu dongle you can set-up audio and video settings as well, albeit more basically. For video there are 2 EDID choices: 1/ 4K SDR and 2/ 4K HDR while for audio there are 3 choices: 1/ automatic detection of audio mode (adviced) 2/ force all audio to go through and 3/ only stereo mode. I believe it could work and send the required info to the Apple tv! If not I will go for the Integra 2.

I also understand your remark on the use of apple tv and music choice for Beosystem 4 without turning the screen on. I will try and see how it works with some PUC’s. 

Thanks a lot 😉

beojeff
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You might want to sent an email to HDFury. They are very fast in responding! They're very fast in shipping, too. I'm concerned about you not being able to be more specific with the EDID. There are quite a few choices. For the first year that I had mine, I did not have the EDID set up exactly correctly. When I modified it, the video become stunningly more beautiful. I was also having problems with Disney+ before I modified the EDID.

pauliander
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Yes, I have sent an email to HDFury and will follow up in due course Smile
pauliander
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Hi Beojeff, just to understand your solution. Am I correct that you are making a distinction between 1080p content and 4k content each time you are watching something? By using the Integral 2, you then make the decision to go by Apple tv HD or Apple tv 4K selecting the appropriate input on the Beosystem 4? I was hoping that such a distiction wouldn’t have to be made. How are you then controlling content, via apple tv remote or Beo one remote with PUC? Sorry, just trying to understand.
beojeff
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beojeff replied on Sun, Aug 15 2021 12:49 AM

I actually use one Apple TV connected completely to BeoSystem 4 for 1080p. I just use the Apple TV 4K for the rare 4K content. (5% of the time.) So I have 2 Apple TVs. The reason is that the Apple TV 4K sometimes will NOT work with 4K based on your EDID and will not give the option to go to 1080p. Like I said with HBO Max. The Apple TV 4K takes control based on the HDMI capabilities detected -- which is not always correct. This is a small investment of cost to get 2 Apple TVs and is well worth it.

pauliander
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beojeff:

I actually use one Apple TV connected completely to BeoSystem 4 for 1080p. I just use the Apple TV 4K for the rare 4K content. (5% of the time.) So I have 2 Apple TVs. The reason is that the Apple TV 4K sometimes will NOT work with 4K based on your EDID and will not give the option to go to 1080p. Like I said with HBO Max. The Apple TV 4K takes control based on the HDMI capabilities detected -- which is not always correct. This is a small investment of cost to get 2 Apple TVs and is well worth it.

Agreed, that seems a practical solution and I see why you need the 2 different outputs of the Integral 2. I presume that you are using IR command with PUC’s to control both apple tv’s via Beosystem? Sorry for all those questions but the sky becomes clearer Big Smile
beojeff
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beojeff replied on Sun, Aug 15 2021 11:18 AM

pauliander:
beojeff:

 

I actually use one Apple TV connected completely to BeoSystem 4 for 1080p. I just use the Apple TV 4K for the rare 4K content. (5% of the time.) So I have 2 Apple TVs. The reason is that the Apple TV 4K sometimes will NOT work with 4K based on your EDID and will not give the option to go to 1080p. Like I said with HBO Max. The Apple TV 4K takes control based on the HDMI capabilities detected -- which is not always correct. This is a small investment of cost to get 2 Apple TVs and is well worth it.

 

 

Agreed, that seems a practical solution and I see why you need the 2 different outputs of the Integral 2. I presume that you are using IR command with PUC’s to control both apple tv’s via Beosystem? Sorry for all those questions but the sky becomes clearer Big Smile

Right. The IR PUC provides control of the Apple TV so you just need your one BeoRemote One remote

I have a Sony UBP-X800b UHD player that has dual HDMI outputs. B&O wrote a PUC for it for me so that it cn be controlled. There is a HUGE boost in audio quality when playing discs compared to streaming. This is something you would especially notice with your BeoLab 5 speakers. Top Gun and Airforce One sound amazing.Game of Thrones on UHD 4K is also a feast for the eyes and ears.

beojeff
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beojeff replied on Sun, Aug 15 2021 11:20 AM

FYI, the BeoRemote Halo now can control the BeoSystem 4. It's really great having it on the side table to adjust the volume by turning the halo wheel with your hand.

pauliander
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Just by curiosity, how is the Sony UHD player installed? Since it has 2 outputs, the video output directly to the screen and the audio one to the Beosystem? No need for the HDFuRy here? You have made me interested given the boost in audio quality you mentioned Big Smile
beojeff
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pauliander:
Just by curiosity, how is the Sony UHD player installed? Since it has 2 outputs, the video output directly to the screen and the audio one to the Beosystem? No need for the HDFuRy here? You have made me interested given the boost in audio quality you mentioned Big Smile

That's correct. Having dual HDMI connections avoids the need for an HDMI splitter for that device.

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