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IR Data Code, User Code and Beo5/6

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matador43
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matador43 Posted: Sat, Jul 17 2021 12:19 PM

Hi guys,

Got that thing that claims to decode IR signal.

When pointing a remote at it, it show two square waves: Data Code and User Code (see pic).

I read somewhere that you can hard encode IR commands into the Beo6 and I wonder if this could be a starting point to create commands?

Any IR magician advice welcome… (Keith, Is this you I see in the dark?) Smile

Thanks.


Keith Saunders
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Assuming your image is the only thing your device shows without decoding the protocol, then its not clear to me how it defines User and Data.

I suggest to you that it is decoding the most common IR protocol called NEC

You can look HERE to a Beo5 sub-domain of Beoworld which I put together in about 2005. As far as protocols are concerned it is just as valid as for Beo5

There are many tools available which will read the IR and display the waveform, but not many can or do decode the protocol used.

So, without a tool to detect the protocol automatically you are left to decode it manually assuming you know how.

If you look HERE you will see the RC5 decode which along with the NEC protocol is pre-built into the Beo5/6 which makes things much easier.

In the end it is possible to make an XML file configured to control 95% of all IR products. You will need the Beo5/6 configuration tool to download teh XML fiel to your device. If you google "beo5 xml file beoworld" you will see a large number of threads on the subject.


Regards Keith....

matador43
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matador43 replied on Sat, Jul 17 2021 2:22 PM

Thank you for chimming in so fast Keith,

Pffffeew, this dont look easy but I will study it all carefully.

As you may have noticed, it's a cheap Chinese device so there is not much documentation on it.

But I think I've read somthing about Hitachi protocol somewhere? Does this helps?

Tnaks to Beoworld and many of your posts I (believe I) know how to upload tha xml to the remote.

The problem is to capture the IR and to translate it into something the Beo6 can handle.
The solution based on pronto device having failed because of translation issues, I hoped for that one to work. 

Please tell me it can!

Keith Saunders
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If you have the pronto codes for each of your buttons then translation is fairly easy.

Post a few of your captured pronto codes and I will convert them into a simple xml file for you to try

Regards Keith....

Keith Saunders
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I checked to see what protocol Hitachi generally use and it is NEC protocol

Attached is a Generic XML file for Hitachi

Regards Keith....

matador43
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matador43 replied on Mon, Jul 19 2021 6:21 AM

Keith Saunders:

If you have the pronto codes for each of your buttons then translation is fairly easy.
Post a few of your captured pronto codes and I will convert them into a simple xml file for you to try.

Good morning Keith and thank you for your support.

I don't have pronto codes: I drop the idea of buying a pronto capture device some time ago when I figured out I still would need a "translator".

The idea behind this whole search is to be independent and not having to bother you each time I add a device or change configuration!

Keith Saunders:
I checked to see what protocol Hitachi generally use and it is NEC protocol

Attached is a Generic XML file for Hitachi

I've carefully looked the link and picture you provided but I can't see a pattern or find a link between the waveform in my capture device and the xml you provided. Neither what to do with Data and User. All dark science to me!

The Phillips protocol code page on the beo5 website show details on the waveform but the NEC protocol page don't.

I wished it would be as simple as drawing the waveform with 0 and 1 in some kind of xml file but it seems it's not that easy.

Anyway. If on your side you can do something with the codes and waveform shown in my device, I would accept your proposal of xml file.
There is one device I'd like to add to my Beo6, actually the only other remote lying around. That would be just a on/off command.
Its a Yamaha processor but as far as I've tried it's not a generic Yamaha command. 

Thanks again.

Keith Saunders
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I cannot decode the waveform from the image you provided because it lacks the timing detail required even if you wanted to manual translate it.

Attached is the overview diagram of the NEC protocol I did some years ago when I pointed out to B&O an error in their firmware related to the repeat pulse timing was in the wrong position


Regards Keith....

Keith Saunders
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Attached is an actual captured NEC IR signal


Regards Keith....

matador43
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matador43 replied on Mon, Jul 19 2021 8:08 AM

Keith Saunders:

I cannot decode the waveform from the image you provided because it lacks the timing detail required even if you wanted to manual translate it.

I was suspecting something like that and it dont surprises me: I had in the ID that IR decoder was just a gadget and more likely useless.

Is I told you I can't see a pattern or even words like "user" or "data" in the research I've done.
So that's a tech that must be left for those who have knowledge.

So long for my quest of a totally independent end versatile Beo6 Universe! Smile

Thanks for your help.

 

Keith Saunders
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Basically, you need a cheap, yet workable IR capture device and there are quite a few options around.

If you have a Lintronic box then you can capture most IR codes which gives you the actual pulse, pause timing which makes thing quite easy.

There are various small cheap devices like this one HERE which will also do the job.

Regards Keith....

Keith Saunders
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Did you try the Hitachi generic XML file I added to a previous post?

Regards Keith....

matador43
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matador43 replied on Mon, Jul 19 2021 8:37 AM

Keith Saunders:

Basically, you need a cheap, yet workable IR capture device and there are quite a few options around.

If you have a Lintronic box then you can capture most IR codes which gives you the actual pulse, pause timing which makes thing quite easy.

There are various small cheap devices like this one HERE which will also do the job.

I don't have a Lintronic box.
Do the device like the one you pointed generate a code that is more or less directly transferable to the Beo6 or will it need a translation process that, as far as I know right now is still complicated and note easily available?
Keith Saunders:

Did you try the Hitachi generic XML file I added to a previous post?

Not yet, mostly because not understanding your first posts I presumed that it would not help me see more clear.
I did read the xml plain file, looking for something that would ring a bell. That's here that I thought I could replace the "00100100111000" sequence with a similar one derivate from the waveform in my device.
But I will load it in the CF tool to see. maybe it will help me understand.
Keith Saunders
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matador43:

Not yet, mostly because not understanding your first posts I presumed that it would not help me see more clear.
I did read the xml plain file, looking for something that would ring a bell. That's here that I thought I could replace the "00100100111000" sequence with a similar one derivate from the waveform in my device.
But I will load it in the CF tool to see. maybe it will help me understand.

If you look at one command in the XML file like the one below you can manually work out the address and the command

It defines the width of the pulses and the pauses which are the gaps between the pulses.

 


Regards Keith....

matador43
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matador43 replied on Mon, Jul 19 2021 9:21 AM

Keith I really appreciate your effort to point me in the right direction. Thank you again for that.

What I understand from the command you show is:

#IRSEQUENCE=NEC#BITS=111110010000011000101111110100001 must the actual waveform that I need to translate from the waveform on my decoder device.

#IRSEQUENCE=NEC#BITS=1 and most of the #Parameters with "1" as value, must be flags.

- Other # parameters must correspond to the timings, formatting of the command and are not given by my device but are with the USB thing you liked to.I dont want to ask too much but do you have somewhere a similar part of xml code and the corresponding waveform. I'de like to see the graphical translation of each parameters (if this is relevant)?

Keith Saunders
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The NEC Standard protocol is 32 bits long and the binary bits produce the transmitted IR signal with the timings defined by the other variables as below

A binary "1" is equal to a pulse high and a "0" is a pulse low in the waveform.

The NEC protocol uses what is called "Pulse Position Modulation" method of transmission which means that the width of the transmitted pulse defines if the binary data is a "0" or "1" A pulse width of 1.12 Milli seconds is a "0" and a pulse width of 2.24 milli seconds is a "1!. The protocol is not a standard as such, and comes in two typical forms. The first being a simple 8 bit address and 8 bit command with each address and command inverted. The second form does not have an invert address field, rather it is used to extend the addressing capability from 65 addresses to 65,000. The normal carrier frequency is 38 Khz

The "Start" bit and associated pause are defined by:-

  • PRESIGNALHI=9000 which is 9 milli seconds
  • PRESIGNALLO=4500 which is 4.5 milli seconds
The other pulses and associated pause are defined by:
  • MARKFLANK=560 which means 5.6 milliseconds
  • SPACEFLANK=560 which means 5.6 milli seconds
  • SPACE2FLANK=1680 which means 16.8 milli seconds

There are other variables, but these are the key ones for decoding an IR signal

Regards Keith....

matador43
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matador43 replied on Mon, Jul 19 2021 11:32 AM

I need to "ingest" all this and will keep in touche after that.

 

Thanks, Keith.

gerard
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gerard replied on Mon, Aug 16 2021 11:24 PM
I remember there was a tutorial here in the forum to capture the code with a HP iPaq .

but I can’t find it right now.

I think the IR code was captured with HP iPaq, after that it had to be transcoded with some piece of software from Lintronic. This softwate was lnked to here in the Wiki.

Some years ago I managed to capture the code with the iPaq, but I never found the piece of software (lintronic) which was linked to in Beoworld-Wiki to transform the code.

If some body has the lintronic converter stored, please give me some Help.
Stoobietoo
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Gerrard,

The Lintronic software has been updated and the old version is no longer available. If you go to the Order Page on the Lintronic website you can purchase the new software and a licence key

Price exclusiv vat/tax
240,00 kroner
32,43 euros
41,38 dollars

I am not sure how useful that will be without the Lintronic Box. But it can convert codes and produce XML files for Beo5/Beo6, without the box, which you may be able to make use of. There is also a huge database of components in the software and is being updated by users often. You might find yours in there already.

You might also find the Remote Central website useful, where you can get a huge number of Pronto codes for components, which I believe you can put into the Lintronic software to convert.

Stoobie

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