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In home demo of Beolab 5s, with 9s.

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Sun, Jan 27 2013 2:51 PM
BeoGreg:

Thanks for the lil' review Razlaw.

A shame beolab 5 don't do the job in your home.

I personaly won't bother trying to improve anything if they don't sound good in the begining.

Keep 9 and cash ! Since 1995 : too much to re-write on the new site. Various Beosounds, Beovisions, Beolabs, Beocords, Beocoms...

I am thinking that is what I should do. Maybe 4 9s. Still listening to 5s. Dealer is now offering me the demo 5s at 20% off the 2007 price when dealer bought them, about 65% of current new.

1 year warranty. Am worried that I might regret passing up the "great" deal. If it is "great" deal?

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Electrified
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Assuming you actually think they're better than your 9s, I think that sounds like a fair deal. But it's only fair if you actually want them and think they sounds better. If not, it's still just a waste of money, imo.

 

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Rikard replied on Sun, Jan 27 2013 4:49 PM

Razlaw:
rikarde:

 

I can imagine that the experience when looking at action moveis is far greater with 9s :)

 

If I had the cash and space I know I would have 4 9s

 

 

Are you saying you would prefer 4 9sover 5s and 9s?

 

A long time ago an audiophile told me that the best thing in stereo or 4 channel stereo o even surround is to use the same speaker type - they have the same "sound or tone". So I would probably use the same speakers as front and rears, especially if the room is not big enough for the 5s to begin with.. 

Some 10 years ago I had very good B&W speakers connected to a NAD amplifier, they sounded great, but when I moved to a smaller apartment the full and rich sound was not there. It was gone until I moved again, to a house with a bigger living room, then they sounded great again. 

I have learnt that the bigger is not always better when it comes to speakers.. :) 

 

Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Sun, Jan 27 2013 9:56 PM
I had a crazy idea this afternoon. Wondered what thoughts might be on it.

At present I am still trying out the 5s, 9s as rears, 7-4 as front center.

I have the 4000s I was using as rears sitting here. I was thinking of connecting them also as rear centers.

Any thoughts? Would the detract from the 9s and thus I would be better off not connecting them?

And if I do, should I set them up both as center back or one left back and one right back?

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Rikard
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Rikard replied on Mon, Jan 28 2013 5:23 AM

I have a movie crazy friend who has that type of setup, he says it is great. It will probably give you an even greater movie experience. In my opinion it is abit overkill since the ears can locate sound easy from front and sides, not for the rear..
But if you have cables try it as see the outcome - Im curious of your experience :)

 

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Razlaw replied on Mon, Jan 28 2013 1:35 PM
I have connected one 4000 and set it as center rear. I have only had time to listen to one scene in a movie for a few minutes. My initial impression, and may be my imagination, is that the sound is a bit smoother, more evened out, if that makes sense.

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Thu, Jan 31 2013 1:36 AM
I have pretty much decided to pass on the 5s. The difference between them, in my room, and to my ears, just is not that much.

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valve1
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valve1 replied on Thu, Jan 31 2013 8:26 AM

Razlaw:
The difference between them, in my room, and to my ears, just is not that much.

Well you tried and if your ears are not convincing your wallet its time to walk !

How about bl12's ?

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Rikard replied on Thu, Jan 31 2013 9:32 AM

Razlaw:
I have connected one 4000 and set it as center rear. I have only had time to listen to one scene in a movie for a few minutes. My initial impression, and may be my imagination, is that the sound is a bit smoother, more evened out, if that makes sense.

Theoreticaly it should smooth out the sound, I was actually not aware that it was noticeable :) 

Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Thu, Jan 31 2013 1:14 PM

valve1:

Razlaw:
The difference between them, in my room, and to my ears, just is not that much.

Well you tried and if your ears are not convincing your wallet its time to walk !

How about bl12's ?

I think you are right, that is what I should do. Keep my 9s in front and replace the rear 4000s with 12s. I have been thinking of the 12-3. I want the speakers to match, both sonically and visually. I will be changing the 9s to white so now I am wondering what the white on the 12=3s looks like. Trying to decide which color of the 12-3s would be best with the white 9s.

 

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beolion
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beolion replied on Thu, Jan 31 2013 1:48 PM

Razlaw:

I think you are right, that is what I should do. Keep my 9s in front and replace the rear 4000s with 12s. I have been thinking of the 12-3. I want the speakers to match, both sonically and visually. I will be changing the 9s to white so now I am wondering what the white on the 12=3s looks like. Trying to decide which color of the 12-3s would be best with the white 9s.

Hi

I do also have the 9 as front and 4000 as rear, and I have thought how the 12-3 would sound compared to to the 4000. I think my 4000 sound better for movies than the BL3 as rear though.

I hope you will be able to test a setup with BL9 and BL12.

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Doonesbury replied on Thu, Jan 31 2013 11:06 PM

Razlaw:
I have pretty much decided to pass on the 5s. The difference between them, in my room, and to my ears, just is not that much.

Speaking of room, could you describe your room such as dimensions, wall, floor, and ceiling construction, etc.?  I've seen other comments from listeners suggesting that their rooms were "wrong" for these speakers.  As I hope to get a pair this year, I'm curious to read how these "bad" rooms compare with mine.

 

David

PS.  Did you try measuring room response as noted in the Sound and Vision magazine I noted?  If so, what did you find?

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Razlaw replied on Fri, Feb 1 2013 12:01 AM
doonesbury:

Speaking of room, could you describe your room such as dimensions, wall, floor, and ceiling construction, etc.? I've seen other comments from listeners suggesting that their rooms were "wrong" for these speakers. As I hope to get a pair this year, I'm curious to read how these "bad" rooms compare with mine.

David

PS. Did you try measuring room response as noted in the Sound and Vision magazine I noted? If so, what did you find?

My room is about 17 feet long and 15 feet wide with ceilings about 8 1/2 feet high.

Construction is wood framing with drywall. There is a basement under it.

TV and speakers are on the north wall which is the 15 foot width. No windows in that wall, but there is a fireplace in the corner between the north and west walls, built in at a 45 degree angle to each wall. West wall has no windows. East wall has windows in it that take up approximately 50% of the entire wall area. Room is carpeted. South end of room is open to a small dining area but the opening is only about 10 feet. The other 5 feet of that end of the room does have a wall. Dining area has more large windows and tile floor and then is open to kitchen.

No, I have not tried measuring the room response yet.

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valve1 replied on Thu, Feb 7 2013 7:55 AM

There is an expensive silver set going in Arizona on ebay now.

Any further developments on your rear speakers ?

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Razlaw replied on Thu, Feb 7 2013 9:19 AM
Nothing new on the rear speakers. Still trying out the 5s. At this point I have disconnected the rear speakers and have set up my 9s and the demo 5s next to each other and been listening to music switching between the 5s and 9s. Also tried watching a movie without rears just so I could focus on the sound from the fronts.

I still do not notice much difference. In fact there are times I am listening and hear sounds that make me think wow! the 5s sound amazing....but when I look at the green power lights I realize I am listening to the 9s.

Not sure when dealer wants the 5s back so I just keep playing with them.

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Electrified
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Razlaw:
I still do not notice much difference. In fact there are times I am listening and hear sounds that make me think wow! the 5s sound amazing....but when I look at the green power lights I realize I am listening to the 9s.

The positive in all this is that you now know just how good the 9s are! Smile

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Razlaw replied on Thu, Feb 7 2013 4:53 PM
Electrified:

The positive in all this is that you now know just how good the 9s are!

Yes, exactly correct!

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Lab 9's are phenomenal !
jkhamler
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I want Lab 9s.

Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Thu, Feb 7 2013 10:30 PM
I was just sitting here listening the 5s for an hour and then switched back to the 9s. The instant the 9s started playing I had to look to make sure the 9s were in fact playing, as I was liking the sound I was hearing better than what I had been hearing for the last hour from the 5s. Must just be me, my ears, and my room.

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Electrified
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Probably a combination of your room and what you're used to. I think the room is the worst "offender", so to speak.

 

Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Sat, Feb 9 2013 4:18 PM
I told dealer I do not want the 5s. But, they are not coming to pick them up until the 25th so I guess I will just have to listen to them some more. :)

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elephant
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Razlaw:

I told dealer I do not want the 5s. But, they are not coming to pick them up until the 25th so I guess I will just have to listen to them some more. :)

LOL

I have followed your adventures with interest !

You have convinced me that the 9s a very worthy of consideration . . . . .

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beolion
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beolion replied on Sat, Feb 9 2013 7:42 PM

Thanks a lot for the review, I have looked at the BL5's, but my wife does really not like them (design) compared to the 9's.

I love the sound of the 9's, and with your review, I do not even want to consider the 5's (I am also having my wife's opinion in mind)

My room is a little like your room, and I think the room has so much to say.

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".....and I think the room has so much to say."

When will people ever stop to tell others what is the best speaker for them?

The only way to find out what is the best loudspeaker, is to try them/to listen to them at home!!!

Grrr! Millemissen

 

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

elephant
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elephant replied on Sat, Feb 9 2013 10:26 PM
Millemissen:

"..... and I think the room has so much to say."

When will people ever stop to tell others what is the best speaker for them?

The only way to find out what is the best loudspeaker, is to try them/to listen to them at home!!!

Grrr! Millemissen

if only all dealers were as generous.

None of the local shops have done that ( except for the PM trial ) but on the other hand Peter's wonderful dealer in Newcastle was very generous with several pieces of trial equipment

Maybe it is just part of the curse of living in Australia . .. ... .... .....

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Electrified
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Millemissen:

".....and I think the room has so much to say."

When will people ever stop to tell others what is the best speaker for them?

The only way to find out what is the best loudspeaker, is to try them/to listen to them at home!!!

Well, one can make an educated guess, so one doesn't have to trial every speaker in the world. A big room? You probably can't do with the BL3s or other small speakers. Void under floorboards? Probably wont be successful if the speakers has huge and powerful downward facing bass drivers. But your'e right in that the final decision has to be based on having them in your room. But one can make a fairly short shortlist before listening to a single model.

 

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Electrified:

Well, one can make an educated guess, so one doesn't have to trial every speaker in the world. A big room? You probably can't do with the BL3s or other small speakers. Void under floorboards? Probably wont be successful if the speakers has huge and powerful downward facing bass drivers. But your'e right in that the final decision has to be based on having them in your room. But one can make a fairly short shortlist before listening to a single model.

But what if you subsequently change rooms?

B
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John replied on Sun, Feb 10 2013 4:23 AM

bsantini:
But what if you subsequently change rooms?

I tend to feel that's an especially valid point for Razlaw to consider re his evalution of the 9's v's the 5's.

I have a pair of lab 9's and regard them as the not only the Best loudspeakers I've ever owned, but amongst the finest that I've ever heard - as they're new both literally, and to me, I'm still getting used to them - and have been finding that the performance is often off the scale re their diminutive size and looks, and easily exceeds my expectations of them from the showroom demos, now that I have them in my own home.

However, the fact remains that the Lab 5 is technically the better speaker, and even in my space of 5 x 4 metres, I'd have a pair and put the 9's to the rears as surrounds had I the funds to do so.

I've found the LFE abilities of the Lab 9's so prodigious, that given my past experience in HiFi, I've had recovering audiophile anxieties about the ability of the 9's as a mere 'HiFi' speaker and not high end subwoofer, to be able to deliver the sort of LFE performance that they do, and survive both mechanically and thermally.

I started a thread about how ABL works and protects the speakers, and also a couple of queries about the use of loudness compensation, and whether my setup of V1-40 + pair of Lab 9's would benefit from the addition of a dedicated Beolab 2 subwoofer, and am greatly indebted to the exceedingly helpful replies of members, and especially to Geoff Martin from B&O.

In other threads I've read of how the bass capabilities of the Lab 5's exceed the Beolab 2, but thought that the addition of a Beolab 2 would ultimately lift my setup with Lab 9's to another level - but no, it appears that even the Lab 9, is broadly as capable as a Beolab 2 in the bass, and in a stereo pair, even slightly more capable.

I would note that in an AV setup, movie LFE can go to extremely loud and at very low true infrasonic frequencies; the Dinosaur foot-stomps in Jurassic Park for instance are around 5hz, and atypically re Dolby specs, a LFE channel is expected to be able to reproduce 115db peaks - the extra 10db needed as it is mono, and to balance out the SPL levels with the main channels which are required to produce 105Db peaks as per Dolby specs.

In so called high end separates, home theatre setups, the top performance subs could be rightly be assigned to the likes of the digital drive, motional feedback Velodynes; the JL Audio Fathoms etc; - all state of the art re bass/LFE performance - yet, the Beolab 5 is able to match them in the bass re both frequency extension and output level - an absolutely stunning achievement for a so called HiFi speaker, - let alone a dedicated high end specialised sub woofer, and an achievement it's well worth mentioning, that no high end passive speaker that I'm aware of can match.

Personally, unless I was absolutely sure I would never move house; that I was going to stay in a particular dwelling until my time in this mortal world was up, and I had the necessary funds, I'd have a pair of Lab 5's over a pair of Lab 9's in a heartbeat.

Hope this helps - I'm delighted with my 9's, but the 5's are still the technically better speaker overall, and whilst they might not benefit from your present space, I would think they would still outperform the Lab 9's on movie LFE, or if you listen say to a lot of classical pipe organ, even in a smallish space - perhaps something to try out?

Kind regards

John... 

 

 

 

 

 

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valve1 replied on Sun, Feb 10 2013 6:55 AM

elephant:
Maybe it is just part of the curse of living in Australia . .. ... .... .....

Swings and roundabouts !

Guess who has all the sunshine......  :-)

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elephant replied on Sun, Feb 10 2013 10:23 AM
valve1:

Swings and roundabouts !

Guess who has all the sunshine...... :-)

apparently Germany

(I am referring to an outrageously incorrect FOX News report this weekend ... At what point did some one decide that it was OK to call right wing opinions "news" ?)

(( oh wait ... Rupert is ex-Australian ... I think that's a GOOD thing))

Rant off Smile

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Sun, Feb 10 2013 1:56 PM
Beoboiinoz:

I tend to feel that's an especially valid point for Razlaw to consider re his evalution of the 9's v's the 5's.

I have a pair of lab 9's and regard them as the not only the Best loudspeakers I've ever owned, but amongst the finest that I've ever heard - as they're new both literally, and to me, I'm still getting used to them - and have been finding that the performance is often off the scale re their diminutive size and looks, and easily exceeds my expectations of them from the showroom demos, now that I have them in my own home.

However, the fact remains that the Lab 5 is technically the better speaker, and even in my space of 5 x 4 metres, I'd have a pair and put the 9's to the rears as surrounds had I the funds to do so.

I've found the LFE abilities of the Lab 9's so prodigious, that given my past experience in HiFi, I've had recovering audiophile anxieties about the ability of the 9's as a mere 'HiFi' speaker and not high end subwoofer, to be able to deliver the sort of LFE performance that they do, and survive both mechanically and thermally.

I started a thread about how ABL works and protects the speakers, and also a couple of queries about the use of loudness compensation, and whether my setup of V1-40 + pair of Lab 9's would benefit from the addition of a dedicated Beolab 2 subwoofer, and am greatly indebted to the exceedingly helpful replies of members, and especially to Geoff Martin from B&O.

In other threads I've read of how the bass capabilities of the Lab 5's exceed the Beolab 2, but thought that the addition of a Beolab 2 would ultimately lift my setup with Lab 9's to another level - but no, it appears that even the Lab 9, is broadly as capable as a Beolab 2 in the bass, and in a stereo pair, even slightly more capable.

I would note that in an AV setup, movie LFE can go to extremely loud and at very low true infrasonic frequencies; the Dinosaur foot-stomps in Jurassic Park for instance are around 5hz, and atypically re Dolby specs, a LFE channel is expected to be able to reproduce 115db peaks - the extra 10db needed as it is mono, and to balance out the SPL levels with the main channels which are required to produce 105Db peaks as per Dolby specs.

In so called high end separates, home theatre setups, the top performance subs could be rightly be assigned to the likes of the digital drive, motional feedback Velodynes; the JL Audio Fathoms etc; - all state of the art re bass/LFE performance - yet, the Beolab 5 is able to match them in the bass re both frequency extension and output level - an absolutely stunning achievement for a so called HiFi speaker, - let alone a dedicated high end specialised sub woofer, and an achievement it's well worth mentioning, that no high end passive speaker that I'm aware of can match.

Personally, unless I was absolutely sure I would never move house; that I was going to stay in a particular dwelling until my time in this mortal world was up, and I had the necessary funds, I'd have a pair of Lab 5's over a pair of Lab 9's in a heartbeat.

Hope this helps - I'm delighted with my 9's, but the 5's are still the technically better speaker overall, and whilst they might not benefit from your present space, I would think they would still outperform the Lab 9's on movie LFE, or if you listen say to a lot of classical pipe organ, even in a smallish space - perhaps something to try out?

Kind regards

John...

Thank you for the excellent comments. I agree completely with you about the 5s being the technically better speaker. That is why I have wanted them for many years.

I just wished I liked them as much I want to like them when I listen, if that makes sense.

But I have two more weeks to listen before the dealer comes to get them. What I should do is move them into the room where my Beolab 1s are. When I moved the 1s in there they sounded much better than they had in the other room. But, the 1s match everything in the the other room, (smaller room, but much taller ceiling) and I want the 5s, if I were to get them, to e with my 7-55, not my 10-40.

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beolion replied on Wed, Feb 13 2013 10:58 AM

Hi Razlaw

Can you notice any difference in bass level when watching movies? The BL5 goes "deeper" and has a much more powerful bass than the 9's. I.e., I still like to have the BL2 connected to my TV together with my 9's, as I like the "rumble" of the BL2 in movies.

By the way, didn't you also have the BL2 once?

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Razlaw replied on Wed, Feb 13 2013 3:01 PM

beolion:

Hi Razlaw

Can you notice any difference in bass level when watching movies? The BL5 goes "deeper" and has a much more powerful bass than the 9's. I.e., I still like to have the BL2 connected to my TV together with my 9's, as I like the "rumble" of the BL2 in movies.

By the way, didn't you also have the BL2 once?

The biggest difference I hear in the bass is that the 5s are much tighter, the bass starts and stops instantly. As for going lower, I know they do but the difference I hear is not that great. I have a Velodyne 12 inch sub in the room with the 9s although I have it disconnected. I find I like the bass from the pair of 9s better than what I get from one sub. I did try out a Beolab 2 in my other room with my Beolab 1s and did like it but did not buy it.

I have now turned the loudness setting to ON and am liking the 5s more. Dealer is coming to get them on the 25th so I have more time to listen to them.

 

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mjmedlo replied on Wed, Feb 13 2013 3:49 PM

I have enjoyed following your experience with the 5s.

I have a pair with 3s in the rear and LOVE them.

I use them as Speaker 2 when listening to music and they quite simply blow me away.

I have a close friend with 9s and 3s and can tell you that there is a noticeable difference that only time can reveal.

The LFE (in movies/explosions/etc) is stunning with the 5s.  I have paired the 9s with them in the rears as a demo -- - WOW

unfortunately, couldn't pull the trigger on the 9s i ended up buying a bv10 for a guest room instead..

I have a 2006 or 2007 pair and would not trade them for anything in the current lineup.  I have a beolab 2 with 8ks in another room

and enjoy it but i think the bass on it is "sloppy" when compared to the 5s.

What has been your experience with the 5 bass versus the 9 bass?? I read you thought it was tighter  . .. interesting to me. .

I have found the 5s to be much tighter in the midrage with the dedicated midrange speaker.  .the bass i have always thought

was looser in the 5s and much more of a 'punch' with the 9s?

one other thing. . .i think the 5s 'feel' louder than the 9s. . i don't know what your volume level is but when the 5s get up to about 78-82 in volume

i really 'experience' the music. . that is feel every snare in my chest. . .which i personally thoroughly enjoy. .. i'm a loud listener. . 

just my thoughts. . .thanks for sharing your experience!

Jered

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Razlaw replied on Wed, Feb 13 2013 6:31 PM
Maybe the volume I listen to has something to do with my opinion. I tend to listen to both music and movies in the 50s, sometimes up to 64. Perhaps the difference between the 5s and 9s is less noticeable at the those levels?

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AS
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AS replied on Wed, Feb 13 2013 8:46 PM

I've had BL9's but i changed them(only because of looks, not quite my taste) to a pair of BL12..
The sound is very much alike, but on my BV11 i like the BL12-3 better.. I had and buzzing sound coming from the tweeter on my BL9s, that is gone on the BL12-3, also they sound a bit more detailed.. However, i tried the BL12-3 as back and BL9 as front and it worked perfectly for me :)! Though i only did it because my dealer hadn't picked up my BL9.. I would personally prefer BL12-2 as back because the BL12-3 is a tall speaker, and you don't need the bass response on back speakers so 1 bass driver should be enough Smile 

Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Wed, Feb 13 2013 10:10 PM

AS:

I've had BL9's but i changed them(only because of looks, not quite my taste) to a pair of BL12..
The sound is very much alike, but on my BV11 i like the BL12-3 better.. I had and buzzing sound coming from the tweeter on my BL9s, that is gone on the BL12-3, also they sound a bit more detailed.. However, i tried the BL12-3 as back and BL9 as front and it worked perfectly for me :)! Though i only did it because my dealer hadn't picked up my BL9.. I would personally prefer BL12-2 as back because the BL12-3 is a tall speaker, and you don't need the bass response on back speakers so 1 bass driver should be enough Smile 

Thanks!  I have been thinking that if I do decide against the 5s, as I currently think I will, I will want to replace my rear 4000s with either another pair of 9s or 12s. I was thinking the 12s are the way to go, less cost  than 9s and can wall mount above the furniture. Very glad to know they work well with the 9s.

Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5

Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Thu, Feb 14 2013 10:57 PM

I have been demoing the 5s in my house now for 3 1/2 weeks. I have them for another week and a half. I am starting to rethink my opinion and may want a pair. Since turning "LOUDNESS" to "ON" I find I am liking the much better than before. The question is whether I like them enough better than my 9s to justify the cost.

Question: Speakers I am demoing are a 2007 pair that have been in the store since 2007. They have been moved around for in home demos etc. 

Any thoughts on buying the demos? Anything to look out for? Any changes been made since 2007 such that new ones would be different?

Thanks!

Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5

Barry Santini
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Try Widor Adagio from Sym #6: about a few minutes from the end -a low A, bottom note on the piano, approx 32Hz. My Pentas do it, albeit about 10 db down, but still there
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