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Move to 7.1

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Seanie_230
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Seanie_230 Posted: Sun, Nov 8 2020 5:43 PM
Hello BeoBuddies

I have a Eclipse 65 with lab5 to the front and lab 6000 to the rear in a small living room 4 meters by 3 meters.

I have been asked by my fella to work out what I want for Christmas.

I thought an essence Mk2 for the office or an M3 for the bathroom etc but neither I would get daily use of so many just a gift for a gifts sake.

So I was thinking of upgrading my living room to 7.1 from the 5.1 I have today.

Question is would it work?

My room looks like this.

Question is if I put a set of speakers Where the red X is and set them to surround and the current lab 6000’s to rear would it work?

Effectively my current 6000,s are just behind me so they could be rear according to 7.1 and surrounds to the side of me.

Does that work?

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leosgonewild
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I think that would work out just fine.

How is the acoustic in the room? A nice acoustic picture over the sofa would be a nice present Big Smile

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Seanie_230
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From the podcast might be better to add surround height using lab 4000’s rather than making 7.1

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Dante
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Dante replied on Sun, Nov 8 2020 10:02 PM

Why the rear speakers are pointing forward?

Shouldn't they be facing the sweet spot?

 

I like the accoustic panel idea behind the sofa!

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Dante replied on Sun, Nov 8 2020 10:09 PM

Regarding the 7.1 upgrade, I think it will be nice to have, but you'll be disappointed with the result.

Aussie Michael
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Perhaps ask him for a Halo? If you use music as your main entertainment source. 

I'm not sure that you will notice that much difference with other speakers in that room.  Already that pad would be rockin. :-) 

Aussie Michael
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After I wrote my previous comment I did watch the podcast on replay.

A very interesting discussion and also perhaps why i think with my rears never sounding that wonderful and I come to the realisation although they are pointing toward my head (BL3) they still are not rear enough for behind (if that makes sense). 

A question that I would have asked in the podcast is in your situation, and in mine, would having ceiling mounted speakers as rears be a better alternative than having them up against a rear wall when you're also sitting on the rear wall? Whether that's 3s or if it is BL15/16 or the equivalent. 

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jowus replied on Mon, Nov 9 2020 4:31 AM
I will suggest, upgrade for a Bigger Space before going for 7.1! BeoLab 5 is too Big for your Place, I wonder, if you have been able to listen to it well
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beojeff replied on Mon, Nov 9 2020 10:35 AM

I think you'd like the effect of adding BL4000s for height channels. I would just do the LEFT SUR HEIGHT and RIGHT SUR HEIGHT and don't worry about doing the LEFT HEIGHT and RIGHT HEIGHT (in the front) since those front height channels are not truly height channels at all. The front "height" channels only help with dialogue. It's the LEFT SUR HEIGHT and RIGHT SUR HEIGHT that you will really notice. Especially when watching "Top Gun."

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beojeff:

I think you'd like the effect of adding BL4000s for height channels. I would just do the LEFT SUR HEIGHT and RIGHT SUR HEIGHT and don't worry about doing the LEFT HEIGHT and RIGHT HEIGHT (in the front) since those front height channels are not truly height channels at all. The front "height" channels only help with dialogue. It's the LEFT SUR HEIGHT and RIGHT SUR HEIGHT that you will really notice. Especially when watching "Top Gun."

@Seanie

Best take that advice.....beojeff sure knows what he is talking about!

MM

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Seanie_230
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Hi there

thanks Beojeff and Mikey defo take that advice.

Question not sure i will get the lab 4000 to face downwards any other idea's?

Rear Sur high need to face downwards right?

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Seanie_230
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Oh trust me I listen to them, films sound amazing.

jowus:
I will suggest, upgrade for a Bigger Space before going for 7.1! BeoLab 5 is too Big for your Place, I wonder, if you have been able to listen to it well

 

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Seanie_230
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Seanie_230:

Hi there

thanks Beojeff and Mikey defo take that advice.

Question not sure i will get the lab 4000 to face downwards any other idea's?

Rear Sur high need to face downwards right?

Quoting myself lol

Would i get enough angle if i put them on the wall and angle downwards if i used lab 4000?

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beojeff
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beojeff replied on Mon, Nov 9 2020 4:12 PM

Seanie_230:

Hi there

thanks Beojeff and Mikey defo take that advice.

Question not sure i will get the lab 4000 to face downwards any other idea's?

Rear Sur high need to face downwards right?

You should try to point them roughly toward the listening position. Just mount the 4000s horizontally. There's a great deal of control by how you mount them on the bracket.

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OldJack replied on Mon, Nov 9 2020 4:27 PM

beojeff:

Seanie_230:

Hi there

thanks Beojeff and Mikey defo take that advice.

Question not sure i will get the lab 4000 to face downwards any other idea's?

Rear Sur high need to face downwards right?

You should try to point them roughly toward the listening position. Just mount the 4000s horizontally. There's a great deal of control by how you mount them on the bracket.

 

Suggesting,get them ceiling mounted,pointing downwars.

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Seanie_230
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OldJack:

Suggesting,get them ceiling mounted,pointing downwars.

Beogram 6500 MMC2,Beosound Ouverture,2xBeolab 8000,2xBelolab 4000,Beolab 2,Beolab 7.2,Beo4 navi, 2xBeocom2,Serene,Beosystem 3 mk3,H6 2nd gen,Earphones E8,A8,A9 keyring,Beoplay A1,Bottle opener,Beoplay A2 active(thanks Botty)Wine Set(thanks Botty),4Ktv Samsung 55'',Beolab 7.1 with 42''Panasonic plasma,,Oppo udp-203, LinTronic.

That’s guys

Horizontal would work, I already have enough holes to fill in when I leave this house (rental) and ceiling would be a pain in the..... expecially as it’s some weird artex design.

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leosgonewild
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Just mount the Beolab 5000’s horizontally I the wall. That way you can point them pretty much downwards.

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leosgonewild
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Beojeff has already answered.

And I had a typo :P

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Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Mon, Nov 9 2020 10:56 PM
Iam with beojeff like i said yesterday Stick out tongue

Height surround is great, and basically the only option in your case

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Hi Guys

So i am looking on eBay at Beolab 4000 but I had an interesting thought for the high SUR speakers.

What about using Beovox 3000 flat panel?

Edit: Or Beolab 3000?

Would they cut it in this mix or is the lab 4000 a much better choice.

The Beovox 3000 with Passive amp would be easy to install and remove when we have to move but would it cut the mustard for the sound needed in these channels?

Cheers

Sean

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Millemissen
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As beojeff wrote ‘ You should try to point them roughly toward the listening position. Just mount the 4000s horizontally. There's a great deal of control by how you mount them on the bracket.

That will not in any way be possible with the 3000 panels!

MM 

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Millemissen
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Furthermore - I would try moving the surround speakers/the BL6000 to the position (with the red x’s), that you suggested in your pics above.

This is more the optimal placement for surround speakers......if you angle these pretty much toward the seating position/the couch.

MM

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Seanie_230
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I am on that this week i think.

They would sit slightly in front of my sitting position by about 30cm

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beojeff replied on Wed, Nov 11 2020 8:11 PM

I hate to be a B&O addiction enabler (lol), but the 3000 panel speakers could be great for just the regular rear speakers AND you could add 4000s for the height!

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beojeff replied on Wed, Nov 11 2020 8:13 PM

(I'd edit my last comment for an addition, but we can't edit using Safari. Ugh)

You would thus end up with 7.1.2 ! The best of all worlds.

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Seanie_230 replied on Wed, Nov 11 2020 10:17 PM
I have 6000’s as rear already

So if I have lab 5 front

Lab 6000 rear

And 4000’s as rear height I get

5.2.0 is that right ?

Confused

Edit: seen your post I would get 5.0.2

Five standard height

0 sub

2 high

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Seanie_230
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Seanie_230 replied on Wed, Nov 11 2020 10:17 PM
No need to enable I enable myself enough

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Mikipidia replied on Thu, Nov 12 2020 8:40 AM
Yes, 5.x.2, i use x as the 5’s as basically 2 subs but not really in the way they use that numerical scheme. I would go with bl4000’s honestly.

Also make sure your 6000’s are set to surround, not rear. And the 4000’s would be surround height l/r and possibly the best position would be above the 6000’s angled down towards the seating position.

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Seanie_230
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Tada i did it the two Left and Right SUR height speakers are installed and on.

Question is when I select Apple TV 4K content lets say Dolby 5.1 is the input source in sound info and TrueImage 7.0.2 is shown as the output.

Most content shows as Dolby Atmos but Apple TV does not send that as the TV does not support it.

How to i get the input to send the right channels for PCM which i think is supported?

Also weirdly the YouTube 7.1 app comes in at 2.0 on this TV

What things should i change to test it properly?

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Sean

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Millemissen
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Could you post a picture from the sound menu of how the speakers are assigned for that group....just to be sure.

MM

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Seanie_230
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Here we go, this is on Apple TV.

Surround is great actually but cannot differentiate between surround normal and high.

This program has PCM5.1 in.

How does the TV know what to do with what when it’s Trueimage or if Atmos is the input but TV doesn’t recognise this format.

Old TV’s used to use PCM for all channels

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Millemissen
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What about the two (L/R) speakers of the Eclipse Sound Center?

Are they turned off?

MM

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Seanie_230
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Oh sorry got ya

They are on as Geoff Martin recommends that setup with different difference

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Millemissen
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Seanie_230:
Oh sorry got ya

 

They are on as Geoff Martin recommends that setup with different difference

Sorry to keep on investigating (since Miki didn’t want to comment on that question yesterday in the Beotalk podcast).

As what are they on?

They should be on all 3 as Center (with the middle speaker a bit further away in the settings).

If those were set to L/R, it would explain why you have the odd 7.0.2 outgoing signal.

 

MM

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Mikipidia replied on Mon, Nov 16 2020 9:40 AM
What didn’t i want to do? I probably didn’t see it more likely, but what’s the question?

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Seanie_230 replied on Mon, Nov 16 2020 10:30 AM

Hi Guys

all is good, the reason I have 7 is because all three eclipse speakers are set to center like Geoff's post.

So I watched Lord of the Ring last night and it was amazing it has so much extra sound.

I am interested to Know if I have the input right as if apple TV sends in Atmos but the TV doesnot reconise that how it will determine the ceiling speakers sound.

I watched Lord of the rings and input formt was PCM5.1 so that was great and I believe celing speakers were being upmixed.

Now sure how I can get dolby Atmos or other formats to come in via PCM only for max decoding.

Youtube on the TV app only comes in at 2.0 even if its upmixed to 7.0.2

Netflix app on the TV is 5.1 or Atmos, not sire if I can default or if I need to tell it to alwsy use PCM

Main thing is it sounds incredible, I am currently reading a great site written by Tonemister.

 

 

 

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Seanie_230
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Seanie_230 replied on Mon, Nov 16 2020 10:56 AM

Millemissen:

Seanie_230:
Oh sorry got ya

 

They are on as Geoff Martin recommends that setup with different difference

Sorry to keep on investigating (since Miki didn’t want to comment on that question yesterday in the Beotalk podcast).

As what are they on?

They should be on all 3 as Center (with the middle speaker a bit further away in the settings).

If those were set to L/R, it would explain why you have the odd 7.0.2 outgoing signal.

 

MM

thats exactly how I have it setup

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Millemissen
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Mikipidia:
What didn’t i want to do? I probably didn’t see it more likely, but what’s the question?

Easy now - first of all you are the one, who decides what to discuss in the podcast...no problem there!

It was just a statement, that it was not discussed (and maybe answered).

 

The question was posted from Sean in this thread/the posting with the picture of the 4000’s = how come he gets the notification of 7.0.2 as output, when the layout is 5.0 plus the 2 height channels (which makes 7 channels).

Sinne you are familiar with this setup, I thought it should be easy to answer (might also interest others!).

However, could it be that Sean in his post this morning already has the answer - does the TrueImage processor count the 3 speakers of the Sound Center as 3 channels (all set as center) and not as 1 channel?

Obviously Sean is very pleased with the result as of now, which is great ;-)


P.S. There also were a couple of other questions there.

MM

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Millemissen
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Seanie_230:

Hi Guys

all is good, the reason I have 7 is because all three eclipse speakers are set to center like Geoff's post.

So I watched Lord of the Ring last night and it was amazing it has so much extra sound.

I am interested to Know if I have the input right as if apple TV sends in Atmos but the TV doesnot reconise that how it will determine the ceiling speakers sound.

I watched Lord of the rings and input formt was PCM5.1 so that was great and I believe celing speakers were being upmixed.

Now sure how I can get dolby Atmos or other formats to come in via PCM only for max decoding.

Youtube on the TV app only comes in at 2.0 even if its upmixed to 7.0.2

Netflix app on the TV is 5.1 or Atmos, not sire if I can default or if I need to tell it to alwsy use PCM

Main thing is it sounds incredible, I am currently reading a great site written by Tonemister.

Glad that it works well - and that the efford was worth it.

As for Atmos from the ATV - you will never benefit from the objectbased information in an Atmos stream with the Eclipse.

The Sound Center gets the baselayer (the 5.1 part) as PCM for further processing.
But don’t worry, the content is there, just not placed in the heights as when an Atmos decoder is involved.

As you write, the TrueImage upmixes this base layer. And it does it pretty well, which is the reason that you thought it ‘incredible’!

Have fun listening to more titles - and please do tell us about your experiences.

MM

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Seanie_230
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Hi there

Thank you for the replies

One question, is there a senario where the surround height speakers will get the dedicated PCM for them?

So next question what’s next?

I have

Center front

Right and left Lab5

Surround lab 6000

Surround high 6000

What would be the next to add just for fun?

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