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Please think about the B&O Ecosystem

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Barry Santini
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Barry Santini Posted: Sat, Oct 31 2020 11:00 AM
I am a B&O fan. There are many B&O fans here on this forum.

Yet so much discussion about new products revolves around their tech specs vs. similar, non B&O tech that is either seen as superior or better value.

I would submit that B&O NOT being not the latest tech or an attractive value is not the root of B&O’s current market weakness. Rather, it is the lack of product support and in its software.

Looking at the B&O vintage market, it is clear that not having the latest tech really doesn’t matter.

But having to bin equipment after a few years of ownership does.

This is my message to B&O management: Not product lifetime support. But a pledge to open the ecosystem innards to others to correct or carry on the legacy.

There’s a lot of brain power out there to do this. And it doesn’t just have to reside in Struer.

Discussion.
seethroughyou
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I agree, you agree and we all agree but B&O read these posts and just shrug their shoulders.

They either don’t care anymore or are by now simply too poor and under resourced to do anything about it.

Iconic product with longevity is not their concern now. They are more concerned with selling little boxes and headphones made in China and forgetting about it after it leaves their warehouse.

Look at the inside of a Beogram record player or turntable. Look the old Beocenters. The best components using amazing techniques. My Beogram 7000 and CD7000 still work all these years later. Look inside a BS5 or Moment - cheap underperforming rubbish. You can’t service or fixed 10-20 years from now. Cheap nasty stuff. Buy something from Naim and they will fix it 20 or 30 years later, no problem. B&O aren’t interested in service, care or longevity.

They can’t fix software problems without creating more bugs in the process and their recent audiomasters like Beosound 5 and Moment were discontinued after a very short while. Their TV department was shut down so no B&O imaging. Most of their stuff is B&O in name only.

Staff the customer department properly and keep it in house.

Stop the silly hipster beards.

Stop the silly coloured aluminium and qvradrat cloth and different colours every 6 months.

Stop bringing out headphones every 5 mins - I’m sinking under the new headphones. It’s a headphone diarrhoea, a headphone tsunami, a headphone monsoon....the world doesn’t need anymore wired or wireless headphones.

I can’t keep up with the new buggy TVs coming out every year either. They can’t perfect a current TV. You go to the toilet or turn around and bang! Another TV from B&O.

In the end it doesn’t matter. They will read this post and ignore it, ignore you and ignore us.
Puncher
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Puncher replied on Sat, Oct 31 2020 11:49 AM

Can I add - stop making things daft shapes that add nothing just because you can.

Ban boring signatures!

Jaffrey2230
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My experience has just been the opposite. In the last couple of years, B&O’s hardware and software quality has improved quite a bit - the B&O App is a good example. it is easy to see the ‘other side of the fence is greener’. I have owned Naim and Focal products and they are no better or worse when it comes to quality and support. My current H95 headphones replaced a Focal headphone and the A9 replaced a Naim speaker. 

My 2 cents is that B&O needs to cut back a few of their products to focus better. B&O to me has always been about design, lifestyle and audio - all together. They are not perfect, but I do enjoy their products. Building something in China does not make it poor quality. In many cases, Chinese products are at the same or even superior to what comes out of Europe or US.  

My B&O Home: 

 

  • Beolab 8002 + Beolab 2 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Office)
  • Beolab 6000 + Beolab 11 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Bedroom)
  • Beoplay A9 Mk2 (Living Room)
  • Beosound 1 with wireless dock (Portable)
  • Beosound Balance (Dining)
  • Beoplay H95 (Focused listening, travel)
  • Beoplay H9 (3rd gen) (retired)
  • Beoplay P6 (Portable)
  • Beotime wall clock (hallway entrance)
  • Beoremote X (poor man's Halo Big Smile)

 

 

 

Seanie_230
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Seanie_230 replied on Sat, Oct 31 2020 12:23 PM
Afternoon

I tend to agree, all my products work really well. I was a little sad when ML died but now with a complete NL system everything just works.

I remember in the 90’s or early 2000’s I had loads of problems with different products.

I avoided Android stuff like the plague but the LG combo in the eclipse is just fantastic.

Being able to upgrade a component and it just works with existing system is great.

Yeah there have been problems but it’s just amazing stuff for me at least.

I am mainly interested in sound and watching films and the wow factor which the whole system still has.

I started with a Beosound 3000 in 1998 and over the years have been frustrated and annoyed at times but the quality is great.

Business has to move with the times and sadly our planet is all about more more more consumption of resources and simplicity.

I am generally alright having older tech spec if it’s stable, I suppose it’s all about your expectations, I don’t buy new as quite frankly I could afford it but it’s too much in my mind so used means I get to choose stuff a little cheaper and already tested by others.

I don’t feel I am missing out because LG has this or Sonos does that, my system works for me.

As for the ecosystem as long as NL works in the future and the New NL is backwards compatible it’s good for me.

Just my thoughts

Eclipse 65
V1-32
Beosound M5
Essence MK2
BLI

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Oct 31 2020 12:47 PM
Puncher:

Can I add - stop making things daft shapes that add nothing just because you can.

Ban boring signatures!

Indeed, you do sometimes get the impression that form is given too much priority over function.

The Edge being a case in point - very pleasant looking design, but its proper use case is very limited. As evidenced by its lack of success / impact.

The Halo too - very nice looking in fact, but so very limited in its function.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Oct 31 2020 1:02 PM
Jaffrey2230:

My experience has just been the opposite. In the last couple of years, B&O’s hardware and software quality has improved quite a bit - the B&O App is a good example. it is easy to see the ‘other side of the fence is greener’. I have owned Naim and Focal products and they are no better or worse when it comes to quality and support. My current H95 headphones replaced a Focal headphone and the A9 replaced a Naim speaker.

My 2 cents is that B&O needs to cut back a few of their products to focus better. B&O to me has always been about design, lifestyle and audio - all together. They are not perfect, but I do enjoy their products. Building something in China does not make it poor quality. In many cases, Chinese products are at the same or even superior to what comes out of Europe or US.

My B&O Home:

Beolab 8002 + Beolab 2 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Office) Beolab 6000 + Beolab 11 + Beosound Core (Bedroom) Beoplay A9 Mk2 (Living Room) Beosound 1 with wireless dock (Portable) Beoplay M5 (Dining) Beoplay H95 (Focused listening, travel) Beoplay H9 (3rd gen) (retired) Beoplay P6 (Portable) Beotime wall clock (hallway entrance) Beoremote X (poor man's Halo )

The B&O app is a good example of something very mediocre.

The cant be class leading in every respect i concede.

But what even is the B&O ecosystem?

The TVs use LG’s smart platform,, for many of their speakers (both portable and Besound) they were so happy that people were using Airplay and CC for music listening (both single and multi-room) so much that they were already down the road of ditching Network Link.

Sharing of the audio from video sources to other rooms has also disappeared in their current TVs.

That all aside, you are right re China - too many here cheaply throw around the made in China as a pejorative. Of course, there is a lot of cheap crap made there, but also plenty of stuff to a high standard. Do Apple not make a lot of their phones there?

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Sat, Oct 31 2020 2:04 PM

Sandyb:

The Edge being a case in point - very pleasant looking design, but its proper use case is very limited. As evidenced by its lack of success / impact.

I own an Edge....and barely use it. There aren't many places you can use it, the bass is just ridiculous. And the sound is very odd. The cheaper BeoSound 2 (of which I have two pairs) is a better speaker.

I disagree about integration. I don't need it anymore personally. I love controlling my new B&O speakers with voice. I just think a lot of the older generation don't want to go near this with the fear of learning something completely different, so want control via their remote. Voice control is far better and far more convenient for me.

I can walk around my apartment effectively talking to my various devices. No need for remotes, no need for 'integration' and no need to go back to 1994.

OlivierC
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OlivierC replied on Sat, Oct 31 2020 4:33 PM
Barry Santini:

This is my message to B&O management: Not product lifetime support. But a pledge to open the ecosystem innards to others to correct or carry on the legacy.

+1

B&O might consider to open source at least a portion of the “legacy” systems they have already dropped support, such as PUC codes for BS3 and 4 (especially BS3, it doesn’t make sense anymore that an official B&O dealer has to manually add a PUC code on an old TV), MasterLink specs, Beosound MP3 player etc.

I understand B&O cannot give access in areas where there is specific know how, such as audio settings for each BeoLab speaker, video settings on old BV’s, old Beoremote IR frequencies and so forth, but at least they can still give the opportunity to keep their old masterpieces alive by releasing to the public non-essential information in the form of SDK, documents or other preferred form.

I am sure there are enthusiasts who would be happy to still use many of the old devices without infringing copyright and without the need to disclose B&O relevant information.

Cheers.

Olivier
seethroughyou
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Puncher:

Can I add - stop making things daft shapes that add nothing just because you can.

Ban boring signatures!

Somebody needs to confiscate the 3D shapes poster off Kresten’s wall at B&O. Big Smile

Jaffrey2230
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My experience with the B&O App with the products I have had been pretty good and solid. FWIW, I had a couple of older BeoLab products and once I connected them to a BS Core abs set the speaker settings in the App, the sound quality was noticeably better. So in a way, B&O has supported their product for me for 15 years now! Any product from any other brand would have been retired by now.

My 2 cents worth.

My B&O Home: 

 

  • Beolab 8002 + Beolab 2 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Office)
  • Beolab 6000 + Beolab 11 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Bedroom)
  • Beoplay A9 Mk2 (Living Room)
  • Beosound 1 with wireless dock (Portable)
  • Beosound Balance (Dining)
  • Beoplay H95 (Focused listening, travel)
  • Beoplay H9 (3rd gen) (retired)
  • Beoplay P6 (Portable)
  • Beotime wall clock (hallway entrance)
  • Beoremote X (poor man's Halo Big Smile)

 

 

 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, Nov 1 2020 9:32 PM
Jaffrey2230:

My experience with the B&O App with the products I have had been pretty good and solid. FWIW, I had a couple of older BeoLab products and once I connected them to a BS Core abs set the speaker settings in the App, the sound quality was noticeably better. So in a way, B&O has supported their product for me for 15 years now! Any product from any other brand would have been retired by now.

My 2 cents worth.

My B&O Home:

Beolab 8002 + Beolab 2 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Office) Beolab 6000 + Beolab 11 + Beosound Core (Bedroom) Beoplay A9 Mk2 (Living Room) Beosound 1 with wireless dock (Portable) Beoplay M5 (Dining) Beoplay H95 (Focused listening, travel) Beoplay H9 (3rd gen) (retired) Beoplay P6 (Portable) Beotime wall clock (hallway entrance) Beoremote X (poor man's Halo )

They just completely screwed up a software update for the 50s and 90s.....so any claims that their software is now rock solid does not stand up to scrutiny.
Jaffrey2230
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I guess the software for the BeoLab speakers is different than the ones I have - Beoplay and Beosound. Luckily the the only software my BeoLab speakers rely on is the Beosound Core. Just curious what the software update was for.

My B&O Home: 

 

  • Beolab 8002 + Beolab 2 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Office)
  • Beolab 6000 + Beolab 11 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Bedroom)
  • Beoplay A9 Mk2 (Living Room)
  • Beosound 1 with wireless dock (Portable)
  • Beosound Balance (Dining)
  • Beoplay H95 (Focused listening, travel)
  • Beoplay H9 (3rd gen) (retired)
  • Beoplay P6 (Portable)
  • Beotime wall clock (hallway entrance)
  • Beoremote X (poor man's Halo Big Smile)

 

 

 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, Nov 1 2020 11:33 PM

Which is why general statements about how much they have improved when it comes to software, and how rock solid their software now is will fall on deaf ears.

There is little evidence of an improved capability in software delivery. The big problem that hampered the Android BVs was solved by letting LG do most of the work. The B&O app has remained stagnant and extremely limited.  The Balance has been out almost 8 months, and their communication of updating it for multi room almost as long. Which gives me no confidence that the Halo will get any of the meaningful added functionality that dealers have talked about in any reasonable time frame.

But if people want to repeat the notion about how their software capability has suddenly become very / pretty good, go right ahead I guess.

Jaffrey2230:

I guess the software for the BeoLab speakers is different than the ones I have - Beoplay and Beosound. Luckily the the only software my BeoLab speakers rely on is the Beosound Core. Just curious what the software update was for.

 

Aussie Michael
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In all seriousness though, I agree it’s important to have a good ecosystem

I want the latest specs and be fully functioning. I am not sure these are mutually exclusive terms.

From one fan to another 👍🏼
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