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B&O just an idea and discussion but probably already been covered :)

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PaulGiles
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PaulGiles Posted: Fri, Jun 26 2020 10:20 PM
Just an idea and seeing the general trend. I certainly think there is a gap in the market for:

BS9000 with modern integration

Sound processor for people that retire their old BV yet have the supporting BeoLabs as the surround sound system.

People have rumoured of the sound centre but an official B&O product that ensures people keep their BeoLabs and use them with their new TV set for years to come is surely the best way forward rather than “simply” Eclipse/Horizon.

Worst still EBay and then leave the brand.

In these modern times the Beovision as powerful and as useful as they are just do not seem to be selling as they used to be.

Thoughts? Would be interesting to hear Johns feedback too from his years in the trade.
Dante
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Dante replied on Fri, Jun 26 2020 11:01 PM

+1 for sound processor with Atmos

Tayne
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Tayne replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 12:19 AM

They tried that.... on more than one occasion.... They were called BeoSystem 2, 3 & 4.... And were all relatively unsuccessful.

Then they tried to scale the idea down to sell BeoLab  loudspeakerswith non B&O TVs... That was called BeoPlay Connection Hub.... Decent product for what it was to be fair, but that was quickly shot.

The fact is people want more than stereo sound integration for their BeoLabs that they've spent £5k+ on, so connection hub was never the long term solution, and for B&O to develop some sort of AVR with full Atmos channels as well as 4K input & output to compete with anything that's currently on the market is a complete non starter. There are far too many licenses and expenses involved for them to even consider the idea with what is essentially a tiny budget in a big boys market place.

And as far as the idea of BeoSound 9000 with modern integration..... give me a break. The industry as a whole hasn't manufactured an audio optical drive for almost a decade now, and what was perhaps considered the successor (BeoSound 5 & BeoSound Moment) to the BeoSound 9000 are perhaps some of the biggest failure of B&Os history.... Swiftly followed by Beo5, HDR2, DVD2 and BeoSound 3 (which should have had a total product recall).

Get it through your head. B&O can develop decent active loudspeakers.... But that's it.... albeit at a certain price point that isn't justified by sound quality alone....

They are a company based on emotional appeal with astehtic value aimed at customers that can afford the most expensive option regardless of the rate of diminishing return.

That's the business model. Not AVRs or nostalgic products that have no business in today's market place.

If you're lucky though, you might get a new colour for BeoSound Edge in the Winter.

kawo
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kawo replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 1:41 AM

I think there is a big difference of what the members of this forum "want" and the market will demand. Just last week I had a chat at my local shop with the sales guy. 20 years in the business. He said I am the first one who even mentioned the word "Atmos" to him. 

Only a minority of his customers have more than 2 speakers attached to a B&O TV, I am the only one with 4 in the back...

As much I would love the see "Denon" technology wrapped in a B&O device with some B&O magic I really doubt that there is a market for it. 

According to sources at my other shop I have been a customer for many years (they do home cinema at all sizes & budget) the market for AV receiver is shrinking 30% year over year and you see big brands step out the market. 

Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 2:37 AM
But b&o has been doing 7.1 for years?! Surely they can do atmos as atm it already does the dts version of atmos on the harmony(eclipse possibly too) and it does dolby truehd on the stage too. It’s just a newer codec it needs to read and i don’t see why it couldn’t fairly soon if they wanted it to be so. It’s literally a matter of a few dollars maybe 20 or so, if even that, for a license.

The people we poled last few weeks on the podcast almost all had surround sound systems, so maybe just your area is different? But even the ones i know personally all have surround setups.

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube (finally Stick out tongue )

https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 7:23 AM
I don’t think we’re very representative though.

The broader market has obviously moved to TV plus sound bar. That B&O should respond to that is sensible. And if the Stage is for them relatively successful, then they will feel justified in responding to the changes in market tastes.

So no, 9000 with AV surround processing- zero chance

A more fully featured (expandable) sound centre, yes that should not be a stretch technologically, and still fits with the current market.
PaulGiles
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PaulGiles replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 7:55 AM
Yep all good points. Probably right that forum can be very different to real world sales and wants.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 7:58 AM

Erm, the title of this discussion bears very little correlation to the contents :)

I thought this was a report on improved sales!

I've been doing my best over the last 3 months to boost sales. I've bought:

1 x Edge

2 x Stage

2 x BeoRemote (with 55" and 65" GX)

1 x BeoSound 2

You could argue I have a few too many speakers now!

PaulGiles
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PaulGiles replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 8:13 AM
Nice kit!

I have changed the title of the thread :)
kawo
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kawo replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 12:23 PM

and I bought the Harmony which I never had plans for :-)  But this is just a damm good kit with my BL5. 

But back to what Mikipedia mentioned, I tent to agree, think it as all about license cost,  might also be the reason why there is no room correction tech like Dirac or Audessy.  

The two B&O shops I frequently visit and where I bought all my stuff both belong to a larger chain with in total more than 10 B&O shops. With the end of the good old Beoliving concept they both have no 5 channel setup anymore to demo. Their largest shop in Frankfurt has the BL90 in a separate room, but the Harmony with two BL50 and two BL17, but not properly setup. And and in a very large open area with a very high ceiling.... so I think no way it could convince a customer... at least not me :-)  

10 years back all three B&O shops (yes three at that point in time...) in my hometown had a full blown Beoliving setup, I need to ask them how many of those setup they have sold. 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 1:27 PM

kawo:

But back to what Mikipedia mentioned, I tent to agree, think it as all about license cost,  might also be the reason why there is no room correction tech like Dirac or Audessy.

It is disappointing though that a setup as expensive as a B&O TV or processor doesn't have Audessy when a 400 dollar AVR does. I suppose B&O's idea was that the dealer would calibrate your setup...wait, what dealer?

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Millemissen
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Jeff:

kawo:

But back to what Mikipedia mentioned, I tent to agree, think it as all about license cost,  might also be the reason why there is no room correction tech like Dirac or Audessy.

It is disappointing though that a setup as expensive as a B&O TV or processor doesn't have Audessy when a 400 dollar AVR does. I suppose B&O's idea was that the dealer would calibrate your setup...wait, what dealer?

Maybe B&O/the sound guys at B&O just weren’t/aren’t found of what Audessy offers (in a Beolab environnement).

As for dealer or not dealer.....if you have bought a full fletched B&O setup, there must have been a dealer somewhere!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

AnalogPlanet
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Millemissen:
Maybe B&O/the sound guys at B&O just weren’t/aren’t found of what Audessy offers (in a Beolab environnement).

Possible. What would B&O guys recommend as the alternative? I always search for the most B&O-like setup.

Millemissen
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AnalogPlanet:

Millemissen:
Maybe B&O/the sound guys at B&O just weren’t/aren’t found of what Audessy offers (in a Beolab environnement).

Possible. What would B&O guys recommend as the alternative? I always search for the most B&O-like setup.

That is a really good question, that I have asked, too.....since I am an advocate for sound calibration and room compensation being done in the audio processor/Sound Center.

Untill now I have not had an answer!

Assisted setup/calibration of the speakers can be done in some cases e.g. the Avant 1 gen - but it is not a general feature for the BV’s.

However, you can do much manuall....if you are aware of how sound behaves in a room.

MM 

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Sat, Jun 27 2020 7:31 PM
The Avant has tuning software in it does it not? I hope they bring that to the newer platforms soon.

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube (finally Stick out tongue )

https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Stan
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Stan replied on Sun, Jun 28 2020 4:51 PM
I had a surround setup when they first came out, prior to B&O. It was difficult to wire the rear speakers, and then I barely used them because often the little ones were asleep. I haven’t bothered with surround sound since.

Adding wisa rear speakers to my Eclipse is on my list, but I have a hard time justifying the cost of bl17s when I’m fully satisfied right now. Although, it sometimes bothers me that I’m not using the eclipse to its full potential.

Honestly, I’m very happy with the sound performance of the Eclipse without any external speakers. I have a bs2 connected, but only turn it on for action/adventure movies. 90% of the time the sound center is all I need/want.

I think there is a market dynamic here that is similar to the growth of “single point” speakers where convenience tops sound quality. At least that’s how it is working for me right now.

TWG
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TWG replied on Mon, Jun 29 2020 8:51 AM

Tayne:

And as far as the idea of BeoSound 9000 with modern integration..... give me a break. The industry as a whole hasn't manufactured an audio optical drive for almost a decade now, and what was perhaps considered the successor (BeoSound 5 & BeoSound Moment) to the BeoSound 9000 are perhaps some of the biggest failure of B&Os history.... Swiftly followed by Beo5, HDR2, DVD2 and BeoSound 3 (which should have had a total product recall).

There are still companies that do manufacture and optimize optical drives. T+A is just one example:
https://www.ta-hifi.de/en/audiosystems/hv-series/mp-3100-hv-multi-source-sacd-player-2/

There's a (niche) market and I think B&O can deliver a product that fits perfectly right into the market.

They could make a single disc multiformat player (overhauled DVD2 design for example, but this time mechanical reliable parts) or a disc changer in Beosound 9000 format that can read everything like CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, SACD.

A Beosystem 5 could have a chance on the market, not only with B&O customers but with every customer that uses active speakers!
There aren't that many surround preamps on the market, most of them are fully equipped amplifiers.

Pindsen
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Pindsen replied on Wed, Jul 1 2020 9:08 PM

If B&O still has customers for a device with an optical drive, maybe - it's really hard to tell. I still listen to and buy new CD's and could be a possible buyer.

I have reflected many times about the fact that B&O not anymore support physical media, Cassette I can understand, CD - there might still be a small niche market if done right but a more certain success could be a new turntable at least if we look at the increasing sales of records for turntables (at least in DK).

To add to TWG, also Densen still have CD players in their product program:
http://densen.dk/index.php?page=Densen-CDPlayers

/Pindsen

Beosystem 3500, Beolab 6000, Beosound Century, Beoplay S3

Nietz
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Nietz replied on Wed, Jul 1 2020 10:01 PM

... and honestly: having BL5 connected to a B&O TV is quite all you need (BL5 on BeoVision Avant 55) - I don't really care about surround anything - it's just great enough - really great I mean.... the sound ... and I'm quite glad to hear it's great on Harmony as well :-)

 

 

 

kawo:

and I bought the Harmony which I never had plans for :-)  But this is just a damm good kit with my BL5. 

But back to what Mikipedia mentioned, I tent to agree, think it as all about license cost,  might also be the reason why there is no room correction tech like Dirac or Audessy.  

The two B&O shops I frequently visit and where I bought all my stuff both belong to a larger chain with in total more than 10 B&O shops. With the end of the good old Beoliving concept they both have no 5 channel setup anymore to demo. Their largest shop in Frankfurt has the BL90 in a separate room, but the Harmony with two BL50 and two BL17, but not properly setup. And and in a very large open area with a very high ceiling.... so I think no way it could convince a customer... at least not me :-)  

10 years back all three B&O shops (yes three at that point in time...) in my hometown had a full blown Beoliving setup, I need to ask them how many of those setup they have sold. 

 

kawo
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kawo replied on Fri, Jul 3 2020 2:36 AM

Oh yes, Harmony and BL5 are really good! My old setup with the Beosystem 3 the center channel was always the problem. I had Bl7.4/7.1, a single BL3 but the center speaker never could keep up with the 5's. Not sure how much this would have improved with the Beosysem 4 and the much better audio in it. But with the Harmony is just one "wall of sound" from left to right. I would love to see how much a pair of BL50 could improve the experience in my room, but not sure if my shop wants lift the heavy elephants to my house just for my fun...

Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Fri, Jul 3 2020 11:31 AM
If the gyms are also closed where you are maybe you can sell that idea of fun for you as a free way of working out to your dealerBig SmileStick out tongue

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube (finally Stick out tongue )

https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

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