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Is Bang and Olufsen in trouble?

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Forester1
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Forester1 posted on Mon, Dec 16 2019 11:42 AM

How else can I interpret a delay of almost two weeks in hearing from them online about my Beosound Stage which has been accepted warrants a full refund? I was told "As soon as our headquarters confirm the process, we will notify you and the return shipping label will be provided" That was on 3rd December and I have heard nothing since.

So what is going on at Headquarters? If anyone has any contact, please help. I have run out of patience.

 

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Millemissen
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Sandyb:

I'm perfectly calm, and wasn't the one moving it the person realm or expressing pity.

Some of those, myself included, do have products like the A9 or one of the BS 1/2.

But as I've said to you before when you've constantly defended any critique with "well my stuff works" - if you had none of your existing (mostly not current) gear, and had to start from scratch, you'd be less happy than you are now, and would struggle to end up with something as elegant as you have now (a work around like a 3rd party screen and BS4 for ex, may well function for you, but its hard to argue its as elegant as what you have now).

They may well survive, who knows, but thats different from flourishing. 

And while there are still people willing in theory to sink money into a B&O infrastructure at home, when it comes to bigger ticket items (not A9s), its a tough choice at the moment, when its not clear what if any company you will be facing off against customer service wise over the life of the product.

Thats entering vicious circle territory, which raises darker possibilities than one of just survival.

 Although my two tv’s aren’t from the current range, the backbone of my whole-house setup is NL and therefore current.

And I have enough experience ‘away from home’ to know, what I am talking about.

 

Sorry to say it - those who write here is a minority of the B&O (device) owners and honestly those with no problem don’t post on socalled social media.

There are a lot of people out there, who just use their gear.

Not that I wouldn’t want to discuss what could be made better or different (for me and in general).

I am just hesitant with these discussions here, because it mostly ends up in B&O being completely unable to do anything right, having no clue of SW and best close their doors and sell to Huawei (as somebody recently proposed).

The result is that I - with my positivity - is being scolded as being a default fanboy.

 

IMO there are a lot of things, that B&O does right!

I would not want to miss what they do nowadays....even if I dislike the winky, winky Harmony and actively look for options maintaining rhe B&O backbone in my setup at home (you referred to my post with the 3rd party screen).

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

bayerische
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Sandyb:

Your default position of batting away any or most critique has proved to be horribly wrong.

Good reply Sandyb. 

 

Too long to list.... 

pauliander
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I experience the same lack of time to listen to my Beolab 5s since I have become a father in 2014. To be honest I listen more to my homepods spread around in the house than to my BL5 in the lounge. And to my headphone while commuting (on trains and in the car). Do I totally agree with this comment! However, since recently I do listen again to my pentas since I moved those at the sea Smile.
Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Dec 20 2019 3:58 PM

You're right, there is the risk that the subset of forum members may be representative of selection bias.

The most comprehensive referendum on their prospects though is their sales figures, which have been so awful the investor presentation itself describes it as a crisis. Maybe they should bring you along to tell investors that (a) my (older) stuff still works well, and (b) they still do some things well.  Sure that will sort out the share price.

As for their software, it's been far closer to an absolute disaster and barely fit for purpose than it has to be either leading edge, on par, or what a premium brand should be delivering. 

When the head himself describes them as being in a crisis, your protestations over recent years questioning why people are complaining have been shown to lack credibility.

That all said, I hope they find a way forward, through whatever route, sufficient to be able to continue to offer some strong products.

 

 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Dec 20 2019 4:05 PM

Again, an Eclipse Mk 2 is nowhere near imminent or coming at all.

Yes they definitely thought about it, but that was a. while ago, and do not hold your breath.

 

 

Aussie Michael:
I hear the eclipse mk2 isn’t too far away

 

 

So everyone calm your farm Stick out tongue

 

 

I think we have all discussed B&O being in trouble many times and they seem to weather the storm.

 

 

Recently they posted a few job ads for software people so I’m sure it’s a focus for them

 

 

Even if coding is done overseas it’s not the coding but the management of the coding and testing and creating accurate test cases that’s important against that code.

 

 

If I can save enough I’m likely to get an eclipse over a harmony because of the fact of the moving stand and a few other things too.

 

 

But it is correct to assume that customer service is the priority here.

 

 

B&O I always say: You have no customers, you have no business. So keep that in mind.

 

 

And I don’t care if others say you’re a small company. I don’t care. You are playing in a global market. You’re in most countries.

 

 

Also B&O you cant contravene local country laws. If I bring a product back for a refund and it’s stipulated in my countries law. I don’t care whether you want to accept that or not.

 

 

Nor do I need to wait for you to accept a return back in Denmark.

 

 

You’re not above the law.

 

 

And yes. My farm is calm.

 

 

 

PaulGiles
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Ok. These threads keep appearing.

One thing we cannot deny... B&O is like no other.

Whether it is sound or design they are just different and in a very good way.

The BV6..... out dated and no real use but the sound is still amazing and people still want them in a used market (with HDMI) because they are a beovision and not a television.

B&O captures people because they produce products that just stay in your mind.

Who else can command £1500 for a six disc CD player on EBay week in week out??

B&O, if you are listening/watching, support and look after your dealers, treat them with respect and allow them to show your brand to all.
beolion
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beolion replied on Fri, Dec 20 2019 10:48 PM
PaulGiles:

B&O, if you are listening/watching, support and look after your dealers, treat them with respect and allow them to show your brand to all.

Well put Paul.

Also. I do think B&O has a good current line up with few additions needed though ie a good sound system of a kind. And with good sw and integration, a way ahead is there.

But I am surely concerned about how the sales is performing and how the dealers are impacted.

And changing ceo frequently is not a healthy sign.

Crossing my fingers. But won’t buy share right now ;-)
moxxey
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moxxey replied on Sat, Dec 21 2019 11:45 AM

PaulGiles:
Ok. These threads keep appearing.

One thing we cannot deny... B&O is like no other.

Totally true. And no-one here is denying this. As I keep saying, we're all active purchasers of B&O kit.

We're just a tad...worried. Plus it's genuinely hard for a Brit to justify £10K for a TV in 2019 in the current climate. I'd buy an Eclipse in a heart beat if it was a tad more cost-affordable (and now knowing a C9 + Stage can be bought for £2500), that's why I'd love an entry-level BV14 style TV for around £5-6K. I'd snap this up immediately. But it doesn't exist. And I don't need any more speakers as, like others point out, they last ages. I still have BL3's going strong from about 2005!

vlohjr1
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Sandyb:

Again, an Eclipse Mk 2 is nowhere near imminent or coming at all.

Yes they definitely thought about it, but that was a. while ago, and do not hold your breath.

I am intending to wean myself from beovision

BO recommends wisa dongle and axiim wisa transmitter for connection to LG c9

Axiim transmitter is better as it can down/upmix

It would be great to have some more variety of BeoLab with wisa
Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Dec 21 2019 3:03 PM
moxxey:

Totally true. And no-one here is denying this. As I keep saying, we're all active purchasers of B&O kit.

We're just a tad...worried. Plus it's genuinely hard for a Brit to justify £10K for a TV in 2019 in the current climate. I'd buy an Eclipse in a heart beat if it was a tad more cost-affordable (and now knowing a C9 + Stage can be bought for £2500), that's why I'd love an entry-level BV14 style TV for around £5-6K. I'd snap this up immediately. But it doesn't exist. And I don't need any more speakers as, like others point out, they last ages. I still have BL3's going strong from about 2005!

Indeed, and having spent some time with my dealer yesterday, he thinks a Stage 2 (if you want to use the name), with WISA / PUC etc would be 5-6 thousand, and a big leap from the more limited Stage.

If it came to pass in that way, it would be interesting to see how well received it is. And to what extent it keeps existing customers in the fold
Mikipidia
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People keep telling me that’s what they want and i can only see the price being in that range and then they get less excited...

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube (finally Stick out tongue )

https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Dec 21 2019 5:40 PM
Mikipidia:

People keep telling me that’s what they want and i can only see the price being in that range and then they get less excited... New: Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beovision eclipse, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound 1 Bronze edition, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1.

Mikipedia on YouTube (finally )

https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Old: Beolab 1's, beolab 2, beovision 10-46, overture 2300, beolab 8000's, beolab 4000's, beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Hence my question

Someone posted on the Stage thread that they wanted the fully featured version for a bit more than the current one. My response was that it would be more in the 4k range, although as my dealer suggested, it would likely be more.

As a product it would allow people continue using their existing BLs, but not necessarily need to buy more. So I can see the logic from their viewpoint of a high price. Of course it shouldnt be prohibitive for people entering the B&O world and wanting to add BLs.

Not that we will find out any time soon.

Jaffrey2230
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Yes, their business is in trouble. Yes, they make the most beautiful AV products. Yes, some of their products command premium prices on eBay. The Beolab 11 is by far the worst price-performance subwoofer I can think of, but it is also by far the most beautiful - like nothing else.

The key is product-market fit. Is there a big enough market for what they are creating? I love B&O products and wish they succeed. They make great iconic products.

B&O products I use by zones in my home: 

Platform: Apple Home  (iOS/Mac, with Google Wi-fi (3x mesh), 100% streaming audio (Sirius XM, Apple Music, TuneIn Radio); TV/Office: Beolab 8002 (Red) + Beolab 2 [Sony OLED (65 inch), Apple TV 4K]; Living: Beoplay A9 (MK2), Bedroom: Beolab 6000 (Red) + Beolab 11 + Beosound Core w/ Essence Remote [LG UST Projector directly to wall (85 inch), Apple TV 4K]; Guest Rooms: Apple HomePod x 2  Dining: Beoplay M5 [previously Beosound Stage] ; Portable in-house: Beosound 1 with dock; Travel/bluetooth: Beoplay P6, BeoPlay H9 (3rd Gen) [H95 any day now!], Apple AirPod Pro. 

 

Aussie Michael
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moxxey:

Totally true. And no-one here is denying this. As I keep saying, we're all active purchasers of B&O kit.

We're just a tad...worried. Plus it's genuinely hard for a Brit to justify £10K for a TV in 2019 in the current climate. I'd buy an Eclipse in a heart beat if it was a tad more cost-affordable (and now knowing a C9 + Stage can be bought for £2500), that's why I'd love an entry-level BV14 style TV for around £5-6K. I'd snap this up immediately. But it doesn't exist. And I don't need any more speakers as, like others point out, they last ages. I still have BL3's going strong from about 2005!

BV14-***-15 makes sense to me as an entry level harnessing economies of scale. The ROI on the R&D of that design must surely be maximised by now.

Or even one like the BV9 where there was a separation of screen and lower section but still in one square housing if it is difficult to put a glass screen over modern LED/LCD/OLED screens

Being that Torsten does a great job of updating previous designs I’m sure he could work his magic on it.
Johan
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Johan replied on Mon, Dec 23 2019 9:05 PM

In Haarlem, Netherlands, there is some trust in the future - new main street store opening in Feb (not a big one though)

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