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Is Bang and Olufsen in trouble?

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Forester1
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Forester1 posted on Mon, Dec 16 2019 11:42 AM

How else can I interpret a delay of almost two weeks in hearing from them online about my Beosound Stage which has been accepted warrants a full refund? I was told "As soon as our headquarters confirm the process, we will notify you and the return shipping label will be provided" That was on 3rd December and I have heard nothing since.

So what is going on at Headquarters? If anyone has any contact, please help. I have run out of patience.

 

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moxxey
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moxxey replied on Thu, Dec 19 2019 8:35 PM

Chris Townsend:

Start cutting back on your core business with TVs, watch your sales drop accordingly.

One thing we agree on for sure. The BV14 was and is amazing. Just update this. Use the economies of scale reached from a mature production, update the panel and put this out a an 'entry level' OLED B&O. I'd snap one up. Instead of trying to get people to buy an Eclipse for close to £10K. Why not keep the 55" BV14 and aim for a £5K price point - more than an LG C9, but you get half-decent sound, good looking set, fantastic remote and a solid unit.

Makes.No.Sense.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Thu, Dec 19 2019 8:39 PM

Stan:

At least you have dealers to disappoint you Smile  They've "solved" this problem in the US by closing most of them.  I live in the Chicago area (I think we're still the 3rd largest metro area in the states, at one time the HQ for B&O North America was a few miles down the street), and my closest dealer is in Cincinnati (2 states away).  This is similar to having the closest dealer to London being located in Paris (Chicago - Cincinnati: 296 mi vs London - Paris: 286 mi).

Same in Austin, Texas. Visited this store in 2017, a year later it had gone. If you can't make a B&O store work in places such as Austin, Texas, where there's a half-decent amount of income and a 30-something tech crowd, you might as well give up.

Beoradio
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@ Moxxey,

 

I couldn't agee more.

 

Rudy

kawo
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kawo replied on Thu, Dec 19 2019 10:06 PM

It took a while until B&O realized they can not keep up with the innovation race and dropping prices for just 1 year old panels. The Harmony is the only way forward, attach a unmodified (except the B&O App from the LG content store) to the B&O magic. The Eclipse was a kind of a "half pregnant" approach from that point of view. Too much modification. 

For me the next Eclipse must follow the same concept, attach a LG panel out of the box to a body. than have a couple of covers to make it look nice but have the core with the loudspeakers unchanged regardless of size of the panel.

The only question remains, is a Center Speaker with some magic and a sound processor worth 10k Euro? 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Thu, Dec 19 2019 10:47 PM
kawo:

It took a while until B&O realized they can not keep up with the innovation race and dropping prices for just 1 year old panels. The Harmony is the only way forward, attach a unmodified (except the B&O App from the LG content store) to the B&O magic. The Eclipse was a kind of a "half pregnant" approach from that point of view. Too much modification.

For me the next Eclipse must follow the same concept, attach a LG panel out of the box to a body. than have a couple of covers to make it look nice but have the core with the loudspeakers unchanged regardless of size of the panel.

The only question remains, is a Center Speaker with some magic and a sound processor worth 10k Euro?

There is absolutely no sign of an updated Eclipse.

Not any time soon anyway
Mikipidia
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kawo:

The only question remains, is a Center Speaker with some magic and a sound processor worth 10k Euro?

Are we talking eclipse or harmony? Is that with or without motorised stand? What covers in either case are we talking about?

As a base price it won’t be 10k euro, and in case of an eclipse i doubt it’ll be that even for a 65” version.

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4

Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Chris Townsend
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moxxey:

One thing we agree on for sure. The BV14 was and is amazing. Just update this. Use the economies of scale reached from a mature production, update the panel and put this out a an 'entry level' OLED B&O. I'd snap one up. Instead of trying to get people to buy an Eclipse for close to £10K. Why not keep the 55" BV14 and aim for a £5K price point - more than an LG C9, but you get half-decent sound, good looking set, fantastic remote and a solid unit.

Makes.No.Sense.

Exactly, a classic design that will take a long time to date. Just keep updating the panels. Just like Porsche/Rolex etc. I’m still after a 6-26 HDMI for the kitchen.

Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.

Jaffrey2230
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B&O will likely find it hard to exist as a standalone high-end manufacturer because they currently don’t dominate any market they play in. So their best option is to merge and focus. So they could combine and concentrate on the very high end with the Beolab 18 and up line. Or merge and focus on the sub $3K market For the home. The would-be their Beoplay/Beosound line. In any case, they need to reduce their product line. Also, they should merge to improve their retail execution, which sucks right now. 

Unfortunately, for B&O, the best bet is to be acquired by a Chinese company like Huawei looking to get into the high-end market. Similar to what happened with Volvo. The only way for them to stay independent is to focus on the products that are profitable now and to improve service to a level expected at their price point.

My 2 cents.

 

 

 

B&O in my life 😊: 

 

  • Beolab 8002 + Beolab 2 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Office)
  • Beolab 6000 + Beolab 11 + Beosound Core with Essence Remote (Bedroom)
  • Beoplay A9 Mk2 (Living Room)
  • Beosound 1 with wireless dock (Portable)
  • Beosound Balance (Dining)
  • Beoplay H95 (Focused listening, travel)
  • Beoplay H9 (3rd gen) (retired)
  • Beoplay P6 (Portable)
  • Beotime wall clock (hallway entrance)
  • BMW X5 50i with B&O Audio Package (Commute/drive)

 

 

 

bayerische
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Puncher:

I look at my beautiful bs5000 system in the corner and, as beautiful as it is, in truth it could be replaced by a photograph!

My music listening these days is in the car, Google home while pottering in the kitchen and  BT headphones (Sony).

I remember when music was vital and important and had to be actively listened to - I'm not necessarily saying music has changed (it has but that's a discussion for when I have a pint in my hand) but me and my habits. Is it an age thing or has culture changed?

This may be for a different thred but I really believe the convenience of music availibilty has greatly lessened it's perceived value to the point it has become either musical wallpaper or else the "imbetween" stuff is skipped to only play the hits etc. 

It's truly a different world with different players and b&o are in danger of being the old duffer battling Alzheimer's!

Same here (to an extent), my BL5's haven't been providing anything but background music for years. Last time I actively listened to them (whit a drink in my hand) must have been back in 2015. Amazing what dogs and kids to to your life. 

No I don't blame them, it is me who has changed. I too agree with you Puncher, music is available everywhere I go. I have all the thousands of albums right there in my pocket. Sure listening trough a nice pair of headphones (at current my most used pair is the new H9's) isn't getting even close to the pleasure of my BL9's at a proper level. I simply don't have the time, well time yes, but not the convenience. My house is so full of B&O gear that I'm sure my wife will soon either divorce me or have me locked up in a closed mental health ward. 

Too long to list.... 

bayerische
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Jaffrey2230:
Unfortunately, for B&O, the best bet is to be acquired by a Chinese company like Huawei looking to get into the high-end market. Similar to what happened with Volvo. The only way for them to stay independent is to focus on the products that are profitable now and to improve service to a level expected at their price point.

 

Huawei? I certainly hope not. B&O is such a niche company, I really doubt there's a "big company" out there that understands their philosophy... Not even Apple I'm sure. 

And what is the true worth in a company like B&O? It's not as if they're sitting on a massive patent portfolio, at least not one that matters today. Buying B&O would come with a lot of obligations. It would certainly end like a ***-storm and quick. When and if B&O get bought-up, Struer can close its doors. 

Too long to list.... 

Millemissen
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bayerische:

Puncher:

I look at my beautiful bs5000 system in the corner and, as beautiful as it is, in truth it could be replaced by a photograph!

My music listening these days is in the car, Google home while pottering in the kitchen and  BT headphones (Sony).

I remember when music was vital and important and had to be actively listened to - I'm not necessarily saying music has changed (it has but that's a discussion for when I have a pint in my hand) but me and my habits. Is it an age thing or has culture changed?

This may be for a different thred but I really believe the convenience of music availibilty has greatly lessened it's perceived value to the point it has become either musical wallpaper or else the "imbetween" stuff is skipped to only play the hits etc. 

It's truly a different world with different players and b&o are in danger of being the old duffer battling Alzheimer's!

Same here (to an extent), my BL5's haven't been providing anything but background music for years. Last time I actively listened to them (whit a drink in my hand) must have been back in 2015. Amazing what dogs and kids to to your life. 

No I don't blame them, it is me who has changed. I too agree with you Puncher, music is available everywhere I go. I have all the thousands of albums right there in my pocket. Sure listening trough a nice pair of headphones (at current my most used pair is the new H9's) isn't getting even close to the pleasure of my BL9's at a proper level. I simply don't have the time, well time yes, but not the convenience. My house is so full of B&O gear that I'm sure my wife will soon either divorce me or have me locked up in a closed mental health ward. 

I feel really sorry for you guys.

It is a pity that you don’t seem to be in control of your life.......or at least of your (listening) habits ;-)

And that you don’t seem to be wanting to change them  - and blame it an ‘age thing or change of culture’

 

Maybe facts like these are a bigger thread to B&O than anything else.....why should B&O keep on producing stuff that nobody needs?

Having a lot of B&O seems absurd, when you don’t use it.....unless you want to live in a museum without wife ;-))

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Dec 20 2019 10:12 AM

Take a breath.

There obviously has been change in how people listen to music over the last 20 years or so.

Not just on the go, but even at home, with fewer wanting / needing audio gear as a visible or feature part of their living set up.

That's a challenging environment for B&O ( and others).

One that they have not made easier, with their horrific execution and all over the pace design language.

Your default position of batting away any or most critique has proved to be horribly wrong.

Yes, ppl still hang around in hope, but that's a different issue.

The share price does not lie.

 

Millemissen:

bayerische:

Puncher:

I look at my beautiful bs5000 system in the corner and, as beautiful as it is, in truth it could be replaced by a photograph!

My music listening these days is in the car, Google home while pottering in the kitchen and  BT headphones (Sony).

I remember when music was vital and important and had to be actively listened to - I'm not necessarily saying music has changed (it has but that's a discussion for when I have a pint in my hand) but me and my habits. Is it an age thing or has culture changed?

This may be for a different thred but I really believe the convenience of music availibilty has greatly lessened it's perceived value to the point it has become either musical wallpaper or else the "imbetween" stuff is skipped to only play the hits etc. 

It's truly a different world with different players and b&o are in danger of being the old duffer battling Alzheimer's!

Same here (to an extent), my BL5's haven't been providing anything but background music for years. Last time I actively listened to them (whit a drink in my hand) must have been back in 2015. Amazing what dogs and kids to to your life. 

No I don't blame them, it is me who has changed. I too agree with you Puncher, music is available everywhere I go. I have all the thousands of albums right there in my pocket. Sure listening trough a nice pair of headphones (at current my most used pair is the new H9's) isn't getting even close to the pleasure of my BL9's at a proper level. I simply don't have the time, well time yes, but not the convenience. My house is so full of B&O gear that I'm sure my wife will soon either divorce me or have me locked up in a closed mental health ward. 

I feel really sorry for you guys.

It is a pity that you don’t seem to be in control of your life.......or at least of your (listening) habits ;-)

And that you don’t seem to be wanting to change them  - and blame it an ‘age thing or change of culture’

 

Maybe facts like these are a bigger thread to B&O than anything else.....why should B&O keep on producing stuff that nobody needs?

Having a lot of B&O seems absurd, when you don’t use it.....unless you want to live in a museum without wife ;-))

 

MM

 

Millemissen
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Sandyb:

Take a breath.

There obviously has been change in how people listen to music over the last 20 years or so.

Not just on the go, but even at home, with fewer wanting / needing audio gear as a visible or feature part of their living set up.

That's a challenging environment for B&O ( and others).

One that they have not made easier, with their horrific execution and all over the pace design language.

Your default position of batting away any or most critique has proved to be horribly wrong.

Yes, ppl still hang around in hope, but that's a different issue.

The share price does not lie.

 

Go take a breath yourself - I was just adressing the fact that these two posts state, that you have to be active to choose to listen actively.

That is nothing that you can blame ‘the changes how people listen or the dog’.

If you don’t or won’t want to do that, it is a personal choice - nothing more, nothing less.

 

And that fact has - as you wrote - brought up challenges to what B&O can sell, produce.

B&O has IMO in reality made lots of product that might appeal more to that kind of listening - think of BS1/2, A9, the BS Shape.

The problem is, that many on the forum think these new things need to have an oldschool design to be good.....and therefore don’t buy them.

N.B. Why should I blame ‘bad sw’, when my things generally are working well - call that having a ‘default position’, if you want.

 

P.S. It is very long ago that the share prices were up - and B&O is still here.

We hear the same song from the forum members each time there has been a quarterly or yearly report from B&O.....keep it cool!

I am positive that the new CEO can bring up some changes - but I fear it won’t be changes that can satisfy the/most forum menbers.

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Dec 20 2019 11:09 AM

I'm perfectly calm, and wasn't the one moving it the person realm or expressing pity.

Some of those, myself included, do have products like the A9 or one of the BS 1/2.

But as I've said to you before when you've constantly defended any critique with "well my stuff works" - if you had none of your existing (mostly not current) gear, and had to start from scratch, you'd be less happy than you are now, and would struggle to end up with something as elegant as you have now (a work around like a 3rd party screen and BS4 for ex, may well function for you, but its hard to argue its as elegant as what you have now).

They may well survive, who knows, but thats different from flourishing. 

And while there are still people willing in theory to sink money into a B&O infrastructure at home, when it comes to bigger ticket items (not A9s), its a tough choice at the moment, when its not clear what if any company you will be facing off against customer service wise over the life of the product.

Thats entering vicious circle territory, which raises darker possibilities than one of just survival.

 

Millemissen:

Sandyb:

Take a breath.

There obviously has been change in how people listen to music over the last 20 years or so.

Not just on the go, but even at home, with fewer wanting / needing audio gear as a visible or feature part of their living set up.

That's a challenging environment for B&O ( and others).

One that they have not made easier, with their horrific execution and all over the pace design language.

Your default position of batting away any or most critique has proved to be horribly wrong.

Yes, ppl still hang around in hope, but that's a different issue.

The share price does not lie.

 

Go take a breath yourself - I was just adressing the fact that these two posts state, that you have to be active to choose to listen actively.

That is nothing that you can blame ‘the changes how people listen or the dog’.

If you don’t or won’t want to do that, it is a personal choice - nothing more, nothing less.

 

And that fact has - as you wrote - brought up challenges to what B&O can sell, produce.

B&O has IMO in reality made lots of product that might appeal more to that kind of listening - think of BS1/2, A9, the BS Shape.

The problem is, that many on the forum think these new things need to have an oldschool design to be good.....and therefore don’t buy them.

N.B. Why should I blame ‘bad sw’, when my things generally are working well - call that having a ‘default position’, if you want.

 

P.S. It is very long ago that the share prices were up - and B&O is still here.

We hear the same song from the forum members each time there has been a quarterly or yearly report from B&O.....keep it cool!

I am positive that the new CEO can bring up some changes - but I fear it won’t be changes that can satisfy the/most forum menbers.

 

MM

 

Aussie Michael
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I hear the eclipse mk2 isn’t too far away

So everyone calm your farm Stick out tongue

I think we have all discussed B&O being in trouble many times and they seem to weather the storm.

Recently they posted a few job ads for software people so I’m sure it’s a focus for them

Even if coding is done overseas it’s not the coding but the management of the coding and testing and creating accurate test cases that’s important against that code.

If I can save enough I’m likely to get an eclipse over a harmony because of the fact of the moving stand and a few other things too.

But it is correct to assume that customer service is the priority here.

B&O I always say: You have no customers, you have no business. So keep that in mind.

And I don’t care if others say you’re a small company. I don’t care. You are playing in a global market. You’re in most countries.

Also B&O you cant contravene local country laws. If I bring a product back for a refund and it’s stipulated in my countries law. I don’t care whether you want to accept that or not.

Nor do I need to wait for you to accept a return back in Denmark.

You’re not above the law.

And yes. My farm is calm.

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