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An unexpected box marked "B&O" has just been delivered?

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Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Steve at Sounds Heavenly Posted: Fri, Aug 16 2019 5:01 PM

Hi Beoworlders,

I have just received a surprise box marked "B&O" by courier, what could be inside? Find out at https://youtu.be/5cdb8sUuN5A

Kind regards Steve.

Steve.

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BEOVOX141
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BEOVOX141 replied on Fri, Aug 16 2019 6:53 PM

Hi 

 

It's been said before, your enthusiasm is contagiousSmile

Looking forward to the next batch of videos!

Strangely, just as you the BL3 is the only B&O speaker I never actually heard at all...

Millemissen
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BEOVOX141:

Strangely, just as you the BL3 is the only B&O speaker I never actually heard at all...

I did.....and still do.

Apart from their ability to be part of a multi channel setup, they are gorgeous small speakers for a room, where you basicly move around and not alway sit still in the sweet spot.

 

Have fun with them, Steve....you’ll like them.

 

MM

 


There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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BEOVOX141 replied on Fri, Aug 16 2019 9:58 PM

Hi Steve.

If you do requests... Smile

I have always wondered about the BL3s very small volume At lower levels its properly great, but if possible can you somehow quantify where it hits the limit, i.e at what level is all the bass boost trickery pulled back?

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Thanks guys!

Yes, the "small volume" of the Beolab 3s is an interesting point.  I'm hoping to look at this in one of the upcoming videos, I also have Royd Minstrels and Beolab 4s for comparison, these speakers also have limited volume potential due to their size.  Hopefully we can quantify the limits of each speaker, plus there should be some great music to hear too........ Cool

Kind regards, Steve.

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Geoff Martin
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BEOVOX141:

Hi Steve.

If you do requests... Smile

I have always wondered about the BL3s very small volume At lower levels its properly great, but if possible can you somehow quantify where it hits the limit, i.e at what level is all the bass boost trickery pulled back?

I'm afraid that your question has to be more specific. Since ABL is dynamic, then its gain at any moment in time is different at different frequencies - and dependent on the previous response to the signal that has already passed.

The good thing is that, generally speaking, this question would be essentially the same for any passive speaker with an external amplifier - "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what level of distortion?" (ignoring any contribution of temperature...)

The ABL version is "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what gain at which frequency for how long?" (ignoring any thermal protection or thermal compression compensation effects)

In addition, the ABL tuning is different for each B&O loudspeaker model. So, the answer for BeoLab 3 will be different than the answer for BeoLab anything else (due to the differences in limitations of the woofer excursions, as well as the amplifier and power supply limits).

In other words, the answer is complicated... :-)

Cheers

-g

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BEOVOX141 replied on Sat, Aug 17 2019 11:22 AM

Geoff Martin:
I'm afraid that your question has to be more specific. Since ABL is dynamic, then its gain at any moment in time is different at different frequencies - and dependent on the previous response to the signal that has already passed.

I am fully aware how the ABL system works, I looked up the underlying patens Smile About to expire if I am not mistaken.

On a BL7 as an example its very well defined where the system really kicks in. The sound is simply different, lighter and more stressed!

A great track for testing this is Coldplay,- Adventure of a lifetime. Not your ordinary "look how great the speakers sound" track.Big Smile Given the right circumstances you can actually almost get a "pumping" effect from the ABL system. Its subtle but its there!

Sure its difficult to quantify, that's why i wrote "somehow", but if you are aware while testing perhaps i would be possible.

Geoff Martin:
The good thing is that, generally speaking, this question would be essentially the same for any passive speaker with an external amplifier - "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what level of distortion?" (ignoring any contribution of temperature...)

Hmmm... Not sure I agree entirely, since the ABL hopefully doesn't introduce the same kind of distortion as an overloaded box speaker.Besides a BL3 is really small (3 litres, guess) and i would aspect the ABL to start working at much lower levels than say a BL7. 

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Geoff Martin:

BEOVOX141:

Hi Steve.

If you do requests... Smile

I have always wondered about the BL3s very small volume At lower levels its properly great, but if possible can you somehow quantify where it hits the limit, i.e at what level is all the bass boost trickery pulled back?

I'm afraid that your question has to be more specific. Since ABL is dynamic, then its gain at any moment in time is different at different frequencies - and dependent on the previous response to the signal that has already passed.

The good thing is that, generally speaking, this question would be essentially the same for any passive speaker with an external amplifier - "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what level of distortion?" (ignoring any contribution of temperature...)

The ABL version is "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what gain at which frequency for how long?" (ignoring any thermal protection or thermal compression compensation effects)

In addition, the ABL tuning is different for each B&O loudspeaker model. So, the answer for BeoLab 3 will be different than the answer for BeoLab anything else (due to the differences in limitations of the woofer excursions, as well as the amplifier and power supply limits).

In other words, the answer is complicated... :-)

Cheers

-g

Thanks Geoff,

That is very helpful.  The aim will be a "real world" comparison in fairly simple layman's terms, to show how the speakers will typically perform at normal listening levels in a real room environment.  The usual YMMV (your mileage may vary) caveats will be clearly stated, plus I will try to explain the variation that ABL can bring.

Due to being in a normal listening room, the room acoustics and microphone response will no doubt also have some impact (as well as the listener's own speakers, which I can't control!).  However, these should be fairly consistent across all the speakers being played.  Hence, the plan will be to show the comparative strengths and weaknesses of the speakers, rather than claiming "watch this video to hear how Beolab 3 speakers sound"........

As with all speaker demos, there is no substitute for getting out to a B&O showroom with your favourite music and listening to the speakers in person Yes - thumbs up My video will hopefully give people an indication of what to listen out for when they are auditioning the speakers for themselves and how to get the best from their visit to their local B&O store.

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on the video - I will post a link to it on this thread in the next few days once it is ready.

Kind regards, Steve.

Steve.

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Geoff Martin
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BEOVOX141:

I am fully aware how the ABL system works, I looked up the underlying patens Smile About to expire if I am not mistaken.

The original patents - you are very likely correct that they are about to expire. However, the ABL in the current products is very different. In fact, "ABL" means different things for different products. So, you can consider it more as a library of algorithms - and one of those algorithms is in that patent.

BEOVOX141:

Geoff Martin:
The good thing is that, generally speaking, this question would be essentially the same for any passive speaker with an external amplifier - "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what level of distortion?" (ignoring any contribution of temperature...)

Hmmm... Not sure I agree entirely, since the ABL hopefully doesn't introduce the same kind of distortion as an overloaded box speaker.Besides a BL3 is really small (3 litres, guess) and i would aspect the ABL to start working at much lower levels than say a BL7. 

That's not what I said. "Distortion", generally speaking means "what comes out is different from what went in" - so, even a volume knob is a kind of distortion. What most people mean when they say "distortion" is "clipping" - which is a large heading on one kind of non-linear distortion. Given this general definition, then any ABL is also a "distortion" of the signal that is introduced to prevent another kind of distortion from happening. So, yes, you're correct that ABL and a woofer driven to its excursion limits are two completely different things.  But both of those "distortions" of the signal are frequency-, level-, temperature-, and time- dependent - just with different resulting artefacts.

Regarding the relationship between enclosure volume and ABL: the question is "what effect does the enclosure volume have on the things that ABL would be "holding back" to prevent clipping of some kind. Yes, BeoLab 3 has a very small internal volume, but it also has slave drivers, which means that (for example, at the resonant frequency of the slave drivers) the excursion of the active woofer is (theoretically) ±0 mm, so ABL is not required, at that one frequency, to protect the active driver. Of course, it may be required to do something to protect the slaves from over-excursion - but we're still only focussing on one frequency. Move above that frequency by 5% (less than a semitone...) and things change. Move below it by 5%, and things change differently.

The BeoLab 7 is different, but BeoLab 7's are different from each other depending on which BeoLab 7 you're talking about.

Cheers

-geoff

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BEOVOX141 replied on Sat, Aug 17 2019 1:15 PM

@ Geoff

Not really disagreeing but please give me you take on the following statement:

The kind of "distortion" ABL introduces is benign compared to actual supply(amp) or excursion "clipping!  Isn't that the whole point of ABL ?

As to your 5% argument,- agree completely, but unfortunately that frequency range  is where your human sensory system is supported be the actual physical "feel" of the speaker energy, not just you ears! And as as such it becomes VERY apparent,- just my humble observation. Smile 

And yes they are all different, I referer to the there 7s, as the good (7-1) the bad (7-2) and the ugly (7-6) (all positive)! and since they share the exact same drivers and filter concept the importance of the difference in volume simply can't be ignored. Actually since the 7 series is quite unique (3 sizes) I believe they really showcase the importance of volume, i.e you really compare apples to apples!

Personally I might actually prefer the 7-1 Smile

BTW You taking the time to reply her is highly appreciated,- makes you go from "myth" to an actual person! Smile

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BEOVOX141 replied on Sat, Aug 17 2019 1:54 PM

As to the Good, Bad and the Ugly.- I absolutely love the roar of those engines Big Smile

OldJack
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OldJack replied on Sat, Aug 17 2019 3:23 PM

@Beovox141 

OMG,how many BL7 are actually roaring ? Yes - thumbs up

Beogram 6500 MMC2,Beosound Ouverture,2xBeolab 8000,2xBelolab 4000,Beolab 2,Beolab 7.2,Beo4 navi, 2xBeocom2,Serene,Beosystem 3 mk3,H6 2nd gen,Earphones A8,A9 keyring,Bottle opener,Wine Set,4Ktv Samsung 55'',Beolab 7.1 with 42''Panasonic plasma,Beoplay A1,Oppo udp-203, LinTronic.

Geoff Martin
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BEOVOX141:

The kind of "distortion" ABL introduces is benign compared to actual supply(amp) or excursion "clipping!  Isn't that the whole point of ABL ?

How about "preferable" instead of "benign"? It's hopefully less audible (than clipping - or a woofer former banging on the bottom of the magnet) with most types of music... if it weren't then, as you point out - there would be no point.

BEOVOX141:

And yes they are all different, I referer to the there 7s, as the good (7-1) the bad (7-2) and the ugly (7-6) (all positive)! and since they share the exact same drivers and filter concept the importance of the difference in volume simply can't be ignored.

Actually since the 7 series is quite unique (3 sizes) I believe they really showcase the importance of volume, i.e you really compare apples to apples!

But don't forget that they have different tunings or "sound designs" and different directivities - both of which will have an effect on their linear behaviour... although that's not really what we're talking about here... Except for the relationship between gain in the filtering and the tuning of the ABL - which comes back to your point about enclosure volume and ABL (assuming that the system is neither ported or using slave loudspeakers).

 

BEOVOX141:

BTW You taking the time to reply her is highly appreciated,- makes you go from "myth" to an actual person! Smile

I can assure you that I'm real... although, at the moment, I'm really wet. We just took the dog out for a walk, and the weather around here the past couple of days as been unpredictable...
Have a good rest-of-the-weekend! :-)
-g
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BEOVOX141 replied on Sat, Aug 17 2019 4:59 PM

OldJack:
OMG,how many BL7 are actually roaring ?

You can get a BL7 for as little as 100-125 usd "preloved! in Denmark, that is  if you accept a BV7 tags along. They were sold at 3800 usd when new!

Admitted: I have have quite a few in active service, and as you know when it comes to speakers the more the merrier. Some of them are simply hardwired as mono speakers, and are used as surrounds  or backs. Some are used with Beosounds or Beomasters. Even my car has one Smile

The 7-4 is a gem, once you had one of those as a centre there really is no going back (Except for a BL10 perhaps). Sadly the is no substitute in the current lineup.

 

 

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David replied on Sun, Aug 18 2019 8:09 PM

Millemissen:

BEOVOX141:

Strangely, just as you the BL3 is the only B&O speaker I never actually heard at all...

I did.....and still do.

Apart from their ability to be part of a multi channel setup, they are gorgeous small speakers for a room, where you basicly move around and not alway sit still in the sweet spot.

 

Have fun with them, Steve....you’ll like them.

 

MM

 

 

Hi MM 

Are you saying Lab 3's don't work as rear speakers in a multi channel setup? 

David 

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BEOVOX141 replied on Sun, Aug 18 2019 9:29 PM

David :

Hi MM 

Are you saying Lab 3's don't work as rear speakers in a multi channel setup? 

David 

I am pretty sure he didn't, why wouldn't they ?

 

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Hi everyone,

I have seen Beolab 3s used as rear speakers, but I personally think they are too good for that.  I've put together some thoughts on how to get the best from these great little speakers and also a way to check if they will suit your room and expectations Geeked

Here's the link: https://youtu.be/xreW6PY4lhs

As there is a lot to cover in the video, I've put links in the description to take you directly to each section if preferred.  Please let me know what you think.....

More videos to follow shortly, including an "in room" test against a range of other B&O speakers Whistle

Kind regards, Steve.

Steve.

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Sounds Heavenly are proud to sponsor BeoWorld!

BEOVOX141
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BEOVOX141 replied on Mon, Aug 19 2019 9:54 PM

@ Steve

The Speakers goes in first! Big Smile  That points towards an awesome wife,- not a lot of guys would get away with that these days.

I have to admit the three tick boxes didn't favor the BL3 in my case..

marexy
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marexy replied on Tue, Aug 20 2019 7:40 AM

BL 3 are fine looking and sounding units.

I have a pair in black but ..i have some spare cabinets to set a custom paint colour.

Can be pearl white ..but it's hard to paint that without pro. paint tools.

Have it as computer speaker but i think it's owerkill of wolume ..so they be perfect as dining room under ceiling.

usb 5v to 4,7v for trigger and connected with powerlink cable.

As the sound ....they are in the middle of BL4000 and 8000 with just a small advantage in treble.

just a hint..if any of you open that speker ..

make sure they are sealed very well back, because the seals no longer seal completely after opening , than you loose performance in bass.

BL3 are very versatile speakers and there are no similar ones on the market, you probably agree.



 

 

 

 

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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BEOVOX141:

@ Steve

The Speakers goes in first! Big Smile  That points towards an awesome wife,- not a lot of guys would get away with that these days.

Absolutely! Yes - thumbs up

The treble clarity of the Beolab 3s is superb, I haven't seen many speakers that can come close, at any price.  However, they do lose a little bit in terms of stereo imaging compared to the very best speakers.  Bass performance varies greatly with room placement, I think I need more time with them to really experiment with their positioning......

Kind regards, Steve.

Steve.

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Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Hi everyone,

I'm getting ready to film the speaker comparison in the next couple of days (I need some time when the house is quiet, which is rare here!)  In the meantime, I've put together a video guide on how to connect Beolab 3 and 9 speakers to virtually anything:-

https://youtu.be/_iM9aQNLInE

Currently lined up for the speaker test are:-

 

  • Beolab 3
  • Beolab 4
  • Beolab 8000

 

The aim will be to highlight the contrasts in how each speaker performs in a "real world" test.  I have some great new music to showcase from a British band called Marvel (see https://marvelband20.com for more details) during the speaker demo.

Please subscribe to my YouTube channel to be the first to see the video once it is ready.......

Kind regards, Steve.

Steve.

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Sounds Heavenly are proud to sponsor BeoWorld!

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delay, I am pleased to confirm that the first part of the speaker test is now online, comparing the Beolab 3 and Beolab 4 speakers with some great new music from British indie rock band Marvel:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIrp9oSWMPk

Further speaker tests to follow - please let me know what you think and which speakers you would like to hear......

Kind regards, Steve.

Steve.

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joeyboygolf
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My personal favourite in the bookshelf/wall mounted range was the Beolab 4000. It would be interesting to hear how they compared with the Beolab 3 as I was not a lover of 3's back in the day.

I liked the volume cranked up which didn't always suit Beolab 3

Regards Graham

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Thanks Graham,

That is an interesting idea.  Beolab 4000 is one of the few classic B&O speakers that I have never owned, so I will look out for a pair to test.....first plan is to do a Beolab 3 vs Beolab 8000 test, which should be ready later this week.

Kind regards, Steve.

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I just listened to the BL3/BL8000 comparison and, of these two, my preference for the 8000 is confirmed. What you call clear and crisp, I call screechy and it will only get more so as the volume is increased.

Send the BL3's back and keep your 8000's, better still change them for a pair of BL5000 if you can find a nice unmarked set, you could always send the amp's to Craig for a refurb!!!

Regards Graham

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BEOVOX141 replied on Sun, Sep 1 2019 12:29 PM

joeyboygolf:
and it will only get more so as the volume is increased.

This is exactly the experience I have with the speakers that relies heavily on active compensation and small boxes. You can't defeat physics!

I this case you mentioned the 8000 came out ahead,- try putting them up against a pair of Pentas, A true eyeopener!

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BEOVOX141 replied on Sun, Sep 1 2019 12:37 PM

Actually...

I wish Geoff would do a basic Beolab with a decent box size and drivers that wouldn't need all this excessive active compensation. I could be as simple as a BL50 without all the fluff. 

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Good call!

Beolab 8000 vs Penta will be my next review once my new measurement microphone arrives.....

Kind regards Steve.

 

Steve.

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Steve at Sounds Heavenly:

Good call!

Beolab 8000 vs Penta will be my next review once my new measurement microphone arrives.....

Kind regards Steve.

Steve.

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Sounds Heavenly are proud to sponsor BeoWorld!

Is this a fair comparison? The Penta’s bow the BL8000 out of the water in any situation. Low volume, mid or high volume.

Descent comparison would be BL9/20 vs Penta. Or Penta vs BL5/50.
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kuyttendaele:
Is this a fair comparison? The Penta’s bow the BL8000 out of the water in any situation. Low volume, mid or high volume.

 

Descent comparison would be BL9/20 vs Penta. Or Penta vs BL5/50.

I think its worthwhile to quantify how much you sacrifice, trying to get a small speaker or a different design. I am sure the BL9/20 would benefit tremendously from an increase in volume (size). Perhaps going simpler would push the cost down as well. Personally I would rather pay for raw performance rather than technology compensating for inadequacies.

In that setting I would love to see Steve do the comparison, although I know the result, since I am using both in some of my setups!

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Hi,

To continue the speaker tests/demos, I decided to look at the sound of Beolab 3 and Beolab 8000......

Here's a chance to hear both speakers side by side, with some great music: https://youtu.be/qcYi9wWQCvM

Which speaker would you choose? Unsure

Kind regards, Steve.

Steve.

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Puncher replied on Mon, Sep 2 2019 2:03 PM

See HERE

Ban boring signatures!

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Pentas have a warm old school sound very suitable for certain genres of music such as jazz and soul. BL5 are masters in clarty and accuracy which I like for instance for classical music, electronic music and movies. I like to listen to both of them but depending on the type of music have preferences Stick out tongue ...
Mikipidia
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A similarly mysterious box arrived here Big Smile

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound 1 Bronze edition, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1.

Mikipedia on YouTube (finally Stick out tongue )

https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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Big Smile

Will you tell us more on the Beotalk podcast tonight? Yes - thumbs up

Kind regards, Steve.

Steve.

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Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Sun, Sep 8 2019 10:50 AM
Ofcourse, I wouldn’t keep these things from you Steve Wink

See you all tonight Big Smile

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound 1 Bronze edition, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1.

Mikipedia on YouTube (finally Stick out tongue )

https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

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