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In need of new Part for Beogram 2000

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Carl
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Carl posted on Mon, Jul 8 2019 2:15 PM

Hi,

My Beogram 2000 type 5240 is missing the small wire spring which is located at the end of the start relay. The spring hooks into the armature as well as the relay housing. I'm not quite sure of the purpose of this spring.

The joint service manual for the Beogram 1203 & 2000 shows the spring on page 5-6, with a label number of 87 and part number of 2819073. It appears both the 1203 and 2000 decks use the same spring.

Does anyone have this spring that they no longer need - perhaps from a dead relay?

Many thanks, Carl

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Carl
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Carl replied on Tue, Jul 9 2019 7:23 AM

It is just a thought, and only in anticipation of not being able to find the spring I need - would it be possible to make my own spring, has anyone done this?

I'm sure I could obtain some thin 'sprung' wire. But what I don't have is an original spring to use as a template.

I have a photo of this spring in situ courtesy of Martin, but does anyone have a photo of this spring on its own, i.e. NOT in situ, so that I may observe it in its entirety and attempt to copy its various kinks and bends as accurately as possible?

Obviously I'd prefer to find an original, particularly because I appreciate this is a precision made component that has the correct compression rate, but making my own is 'possibly' my only chance of being able to complete the renovation of my Beogram.

Is this a silly idea? Any thoughts?

Thank you, Carl

 

solderon29
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The spring simply provides the return bias to one of the red lever's.The lever is forced by the action of the cam lifting wheel to keep the contacts closed once the relay has initiated the operating cycle.The spring then ensures that the contacts open at the end of the play cycle,switching off the motor.

They are as rare as hens teeth,these day's,but I imagine that you could fabricate something to achieve the desired action.

I'll look through my own stock of treasure as I may have a salvaged relay that still has it's spring in place,but it's along shot!

Nick

solderon29
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The spring simply provides the return bias to one of the red lever's.The lever is forced by the action of the cam lifting wheel to keep the contacts closed once the relay has initiated the operating cycle.The spring then ensures that the contacts open at the end of the play cycle,switching off the motor.

They are as rare as hens teeth,these day's,but I imagine that you could fabricate something to achieve the desired action.

I'll look through my own stock of treasure as I may have a salvaged relay that still has it's spring in place,but it's along shot!

Nick

Carl
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Carl replied on Wed, Jul 10 2019 10:25 AM

Hi Nick,

Thank you for that explanation on purpose. I can now fully understand why my turntable, without this spring, is behaving so erratically. Thankfully Martin (Dillen) diagnosed this spring was missing else I would never have known of its existence. Goodness knows when and where this spring was lost, but I'm reasonably certain is wasn't in situ when I started my renovation a few weeks ago. An extremely thorough search without success adds to my feeling that it was probably lost long ago, maybe during a house move etc? (just guessing). I keep looking every day though - it's become an obsession to try and find it.

I agree that it could probably be fabricated and maybe that will be my only option. Hoping a stand alone photo to use as a guide may turn up, unlikely though.

My relay levers are black as opposed to red. I only mention this because the colour may signal a spec change, which in turn may mean there could be minor differences in designs of relay housing and spring - I very much doubt it though.

Thank you for looking through your treasure for me - it is much appreciated.

Rgds, Carl

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Wed, Jul 10 2019 2:00 PM

And Alexs photo in the thread I linked to in your other thread isn't good enough?

https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/18165.aspx

(Click the photo).

Martin

Carl
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Carl replied on Wed, Jul 10 2019 3:58 PM

Hello Martin,

Yes the link you provided was extremely helpful and I replied thanking you. I missed the link pointing to Alex's photos that you provided first time around. Not sure if the link was late arriving in the message but for some reason I missed it. You pointed me back to it and I did see the photos and the missing spring - which was extremely helpful and I replied accordingly. I apologised to you for missing the link. I wasn't sure however what this spring actually did but thanks to you I knew it was necessary. 

Subsequently I posted a request for a photo of the whole spring, i.e. as it would appear when not attached to the relay. I only wanted to see how easy or how difficult making one would be. It felt wrong to keep going directly to yourself, only because I can understand how busy you must be with the help you provide others.

I try to reply as courteously as possible to members who offer me help or insight. However, your expertise and experience is evident throughout this site. I have already benefitted a great deal from your input for which I am and remain extremely grateful.

I 'appear' to annoy you and that certainly is not my intention - I hope I am wrong. I am a newbie to this site and to repairing B&O. I appreciate dealing with newbies like me can be frustrating but I have made great progress over the last few weeks. That is thanks to you and other members of this site.

Always my best intentions. Rgds, Carl

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Wed, Jul 10 2019 4:42 PM

Carl:
I 'appear' to annoy you

What?

- Not at all!
If my answers are short and "to the point" or email answers are delayed for a couple of days, it's because I usually have
some 60-80 B&O-related emails in my inbox to answer every day - outside of my 8-16 job, family, housekeeping etc.
When I asked you if Alexs photo wasn't good enough, it was because I would see if I could take a spring from a Beogram and take a better photo if it wasn't.

I already spent more than two hours last night digging through boxes in the dungeons, looking for this spring and about a handful or two of other parts for others.
It's not an easy part to find. It's small and easily overlooked, I don't have everything in the same physical location, and far from all boxes are marked with their contents.
But I am not known to give up.

Martin

Carl
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Carl replied on Wed, Jul 10 2019 5:31 PM

Hi Martin, 

I'm very relieved to hear you're not annoyed. I'm not usually a sensitive sole but the brevity of your replies made me wonder. I always suspected you had a lot on your plate and with hindsight I can now see you were querying if you could provide better photos. Please accept my sincere apologies for my misunderstanding. I won't misinterpret again so be as short and to the point as you want.

Thank you for the effort you've put in looking for this spring. I know from my own search how hard it must be, particularly when it is so small and there is no certainty of finding one. 

Your help in restoring my B&O is very much appreciated (truly).

Rgds, Carl

 

 

Schletti82
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I have a completely broken Beogram 2000 but still this spring is there 😉

Carl
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Carl replied on Wed, Jul 10 2019 9:31 PM

Hello Schletti82,

Thank you for getting in touch, welcome news indeed. Would you consider selling the relay spring to me? 

Regards, Carl

Schletti82
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Sure, but I think the shipping costs will be higher than the price for the spring.

i life in Munich (Germany) but of course I will send it to you

Carl
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Carl replied on Wed, Jul 10 2019 11:22 PM

Thank you. I’m planning to visit Munich next year but we won’t wait till then (smile). Yes shipping costs can be high but I didn't want to be presumptuous on how much you wanted for the spring, plus I’m not sure what the shipping costs would be to the UK. I’ve noticed most people prefer to discuss these matters directly so would you be happy to do that. If yes then my email is cralt@me.com. 

Rgds Carl

Carl
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Carl replied on Thu, Jul 11 2019 8:12 PM

Hi all, quick update - unfortunately the spring offered above was from a different deck with different internals. 

So I will proceed with trying to make a spring.

If in the meantime an original spring is found and offered then great.

Rgds, Carl 

Carl
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Finally!!!!

Hi All,

Found time this morning to tackle the making of a relay spring.
Took 3 attempts but eventually I was happy with fit.
Fitted spring and tested deck - 'shock horror' I still had the problem where the motor would cut out as soon as the pickup arm lowered onto the record.
I re-adjusted the relay contacts because I discovered the top contact was not making a connection when the service manual said it should, i.e. in relation to the position of the top armature when located in a specific position on the cam.
Tested again and now ALL works perfectly.
I’ve attached a photo of my handy-work. I used 0.2mm gauge wire which is a little less then I believe it should be. The tension it provides seems fine though. Think I'll glue this spring in place but have yet to decide the best place apply glue.
My only remaining issue is the speed of the platter. I’ve set the speed to 30 and centred the fine adjustment knob on the side of the deck. But no matter which way I turn it I cannot get the strobe squares around the edge of the platter to show as standing still. I’ve been using an energy saving bulb so I will try a traditional light bulb - does it matter what the wattage of the bulb is?
I set the position of the conical shaft that the idler wheel makes contact with when I refitted the motor (set in accordance with the service manual), so I don’t really want to start playing with it now, but I may have no choice.
Thank you to all of you who have helped, specifically Martin (Dillen) who identified the relay spring was probably missing and who pointed me toward some photos, and Solderon29 who provided some explanations and kindly sent me a photo of the relay spring on its own, i.e. unattached from the relay.
Regards, Carl

 

 


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