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Lift button assembly on my Beogram 2000

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Carl
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Southampton
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Carl posted on Thu, Jun 6 2019 2:19 PM

Hello,

Following some lubrication of my Beogram 2000 type 5240 to rectify some issues (which so far has been unsuccessful, in fact I seem to have made things worse), I put it all back together yesterday (for the umpteenth time) in order to test. With a record all ready to go I pushed the lift button. It wouldn't depress? I've had no issues with the lift button up till this point so I was confused. After taking it all apart again and gaining access to the plastic container that the lift button sits in, and removing the lift button along with its spring, I discovered two pieces of broken 'hard' plastic and a copper coloured metal strip loose inside the container. This is what was causing the problem. I have no idea what caused the plastic pieces to break but I can see they were once part of the container. More puzzling is where the metal strip came from. To my limited knowledge and having examined the container carefully I couldn't find anywhere in the container where the metal strip would serve a useful purpose. The metal strip measures 10mm long x 4mm wide and has a raised bit in the middle. If anyone can tell me where this metal strip belongs I'd be most grateful. I fear the container will now need replacing, however and because I couldn't see what purpose these broken plastic pieces served, nor either the metal strip, I decided to put it all back together to try it. Low and behold the lift button works, and its stalk connects just fine with the separate solenoid mounted above it (or below it when the turntable is the right way up). One big caveat however is that unlike before, now the lift button doesn't raise the pickup arm nor does it stop the platter from spinning. This fault maybe coincidental resulting from something I've inadvertently done, or it may be due to these broken pieces. Would anyone out there know? I have taken some photos which I'm sure will help enormously, but as yet I haven't discovered how to include photos in a post. Thank you.

 

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AudioOrigin
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Hi Paul,

I am in Southampton also; I should be able to supply any parts you need.

If you upgrade your beoworld membership to silver you can Download the manual to help you fix it and also you can ask other Beoworld members for parts.

Best regards Alistair

 

Audio Origin

 

Carl
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Carl replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 5:05 PM

Hi Alistair,

Good to know someone from here who is also in Southampton, feeling a bit isolated and definitely out of my depth. Started to work on my turntable because of a few issues but as a result of my handy work I think they've now become major issues!

I'm currently contemplating removing the motor once I figure out how, so that I can clean and re-lubricate it, or perhaps preferably pay to have it done properly. That is assuming there are people in the Southampton area that do that kind of thing?

But my immediate problem is the lift button assembly as described in the first part of my post. I think I've worked out where the metal strip goes - I think it is used to keep a small ball bearing in place that is housed in the side wall of the plastic cylinder in which the lift button and its spring are located. But exactly what this ball bearing does and why it is there escapes me. But as I said, I only think I know where the metal strip goes, and sadly I can't put it back into its place because two pieces of the plastic, which I think are the metal strips retainers, have broken. I've tried gluing them with no success.

Removal of the whole lift button assembly, and subsequent replacement of the plastic container looks easy, but I haven't found a way of doing it. So yes I will upgrade to Silver and obtain the manual, hopefully the manual will include the relevant section and be easy to follow.

Do you have this assembly then? I think I would only need the plastic container, i.e. the bit that has the two raised grips used to change platter speeds. However more could get broken in the removal process. If you do have it are you able to confirm my view on the location of the metal strip?

Don't mean to trouble you unnecessarily but to know I'm on the right path would be helpful. In the meantime I will upgrade my membership and view the manual. Many thanks, Carl

 

AdamS
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AdamS replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 6:03 PM

There are a few of us in the area - I'm up near Winchester!

Carl
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Carl replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 7:00 PM

Hello AdamS, it's good to know members are local to me. I've just upgraded to silver so tomorrow I will search for the required Beogram 2000 service manual. Hopefully I should then start making proper progress.

Keith Saunders
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Please see Carl's image below

 


Regards Keith....

Carl
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Carl replied on Fri, Jun 7 2019 4:52 PM

Hello,

I am having some issues with the lift button on my Beogram 2000 type 5240. I received some kind replies earlier but as yet haven't received any specific answers that take me forward. Yesterday I upgraded my membership to silver in order to access the relevant service manual, but alas it doesn’t provide me with the specific answers I need.

What I am hoping for is to find someone who can take a look at the photo in the previous post above and explain the purpose/function of the following, and subsequently allow me to acquire a fix :-

After several disassemblies and reassemblies for the purposes of lubrication of the actual turntable itself, I noticed the lift button wouldn't depress? I wasn't working in this area and I've had no issues with the lift button up till this point. 

After taking it all apart again and gaining access to the plastic holder that the actual lift button sits in, and removing the lift button along with its spring, I discovered two pieces of broken 'hard' plastic and a copper coloured metal strip loose inside the lift button holder. These pieces are visible in the photo above as is the area of the plastic holder that has broken.

This is what was causing the lift button to not depress. I have no idea what caused the plastic pieces to break but I can see they were once part of the holder. More puzzling is where the metal strip came from. To my limited knowledge and having initially examined the container carefully I could not find anywhere in the holder where the metal strip would serve any useful purpose. 

The metal strip measures 10mm long x 4mm wide and has a raised bit in the middle. After further examination I now suspect the metal strip was held in place by the two pieces of plastic that have now broken, and I suspect the metal strips purpose was to act as a retainer for a small ball bearing that is located in the the side of the holder.

I am very keen to understand this metal strips purpose, and if as I suspect it is to retain the previously mentioned ball bearing, then what purpose does the ball bearing serve? Nothing strikes me as obvious.

To confound me even further and with the two broken plastic pieces removed, along with the metal strip, I decided to put the turntable back together to test it. Low and behold the lift button works, i.e. the lift button stalk connects just fine with the separate solenoid mounted just above it (or below it when the turntable is the right way up). 

One big caveat however is that unlike before, pressing the lift button does not raise the pickup arm nor does it stop the platter from spinning. This fault maybe coincidental resulting from something I've inadvertently done elsewhere, or it may be due to these broken pieces. Would anyone out there know? Thank you in anticipation.

 

NB: I don't necessarily want to replace the broken plastic holder as to do so looks a pain, especially when I cannot ascertain what functionality the metal strip and small ball bearing perform. But obviously I will have to replace if you think not doing so will present problems. The metal strip and ball bearing must perform some purpose - they must be there for a reason, but what?? If I do have to replace the broken parts then help on how to do this would also be most welcome. The service manual doesn’t explain in words, it just gives an expanded diagram.

AudioOrigin
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Hi ,

The ball bearing makes the rotating selector sit in the right positions, so it’s not loose.

I will upload images but I think you will need to replace the plastic part.

Best regards Alistair

Audio Origin

Carl
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Carl replied on Fri, Jun 7 2019 6:09 PM

Hi Alistair,

Thank you, that was the conclusion I was coming to. The speed selector seemed fine without the ball bearing locator. Perhaps it would have been more noticeable to try the selector with and without the ball bearing (which of course I cannot now do).

Do you have the part (the plastic holder) and if so how much would it be?

Also do you know how the holder is removed?

In addition to removing the holder I can see I will have to detach a flat aluminium rod that uses B&O's version of a circlip to connect the rod to the selector ring. How these circlips are removed without the usual circlip holes and without breaking them is as yet unclear.

Many thanks 

AudioOrigin
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Hi Carl,

The main job on that beogram to make it work properly is a motor rebuild, and it also likely needs a new stylus if your stylus has been used for about 1000 hours it should be replaced or professionally rebuilt

Here is my website about stylus repairs

www.audio-origin.co.uk

Yes I can post you the part I will send you an email.

Best regards Alistair

Audio Origin

 

 

Carl
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Carl replied on Wed, Jun 12 2019 10:10 AM

Hi to all,

Beogram 2000 type 5240. Are there any technicians out there who know how to remove the plastic holder that the 'LIFT Button' is depressed into. My plastic holder has broken inside. This break means the simple mechanism inside the plastic holder (spring & ball bearing), which holds the speed selector in its selected setting, is no longer held securely in position and no longer works. Photo suppled earlier in this thread.

I have checked the service manual and although the part is shown it has not been assigned a part number.

I know I'll need to replace this plastic holder but I'm hesitant to do so until I know how to remove it without causing further damage.

Many thanks for any help.

Carl
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UPDATE 13 June 2019: I didn't receive any advice so went ahead and did the best I could. The inner plastic holder is now removed - and even more broken than before, including the small raised plastic nub that attaches the long metal arm for the speed controller - it just broke off when trying to remove B&O's version of a circlip.

To remove the inner plastic holder i prized off the plastic outer ring (left of photo). There were some horrible breaking noises that hard plastic produces, but unfortunately I couldn't see any alternative. It was almost as if the outer ring was fixed to the inner holder (right of photo), which houses the LIFT Button.

I definitely now need a replacement 'inner holder' but I’m not sure about the outer ring. I'm not sure because i don't know if the outer ring is supposed to be permanently attached to the inner holder once installed, or, now that I have separated the two parts, whether the outer ring will work ok with a replacement inner holder - the outer ring kind of looks ok to me?

I'd be grateful for any thoughts on this work in progress. Also I would appreciate hearing from those who have these part(s) as it would be good to have a choice on condition and cost.

 

Here is the latest photo, thank you...

 

 


matador43
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Good Afternoon Carl,

I'm not a specialist, but my experience is that you'll be more lucky finding a full deck "for parts" than that specific part alone.

If I were you, I would study the services manuals for same generation decks to see which references share the same part number so I could broaden my search for a "dead body" deck. Maybe some people here can also help you in that.

The remaining problem being that if you broke it once when dismantling, chances are that you gonna break it again.

If your cartridge, belt and dustcover are OK, plus any visible and easily swappable part (wood, patter, cables, maybe motor), I recommend you start to search a full deck. As much as I've seen with mine, mechanics dont go wrong too much or can be easily fixed. Your button how it is now, can't.

 All the best.

Carl
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Carl replied on Thu, Jun 13 2019 4:40 PM

Good Afternoon,

Thank you for taking the time to comment, not many people have and so I very much appreciate your feedback.

I have a feeling you could be right about a 'full deck' for parts, however there was a suggestion some days ago that these parts were available? It was thinking they were available that gave me the confidence to proceed.

So far as the specific part number, I have looked at the relevant service manual. It shows the LIFT Button holder in its fixed position, i.e. attached to the underside of aluminium deck, but unfortunately the manual doesn't show a part number. More work to do here as you suggest.

It's a mystery how it initially got broken, it was working fine then suddenly I couldn't depress the LIFT button to test my repairs, I found broken pieces in the holder?

The turntable, wooden plinth and dust cover, cosmetically at least, are all in excellent condition. It has been in storage for over 30 years, very well wrapped up and worked (kind of) the first power up a couple of weeks ago. Although slow to start, speed was good and cartridge was good (record I played sounded great). I am currently re-lubricating the motor the proper way. Bearings are in soak and I shall be infusing them with oil via vacuum over the weekend. 

The way forward to full restoration was looking to be plane sailing, i.e. a fully working motor, purchase of new belt and possibly new idler wheel.

Now though, and as you starkly and rightly point out, I could be foiled by this plastic piece, a piece that should never have broken! - I wasn't even working in that area.

I'm going to stay positive though. Hopefully someone out there will have the piece I'm looking for.

Thank you - Carl

Carl
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Carl replied on Fri, Jun 14 2019 8:08 AM

HELP! I need somebody HELP! not just anybody HELP! you know I need someone HELP! 

Ok, thats enough of the Beatles song...

But I really am in bit of a pickle. I am trying to restore a beautiful Beogram 2000 (type 5240), and up until very recently I was making great progress.

However, If you've read a few of the latest threads above (and seen the photos), you will know I have broken the plastic holder that the LIFT button sits in. 

Things started off quite innocently in that the holder broke (don't know why), which rendered the spring and ball bearing mechanism contained within, to no longer hold the speed selector dial in the users chosen speed position.

I decided I had no choice but to remove this broken holder on the premise that a new part would be available.

Removal wasn't easy, there was nothing obvious to undo, and so I resorted to prying off the securing outer ring, which appeared to be stuck fast.

Net result - an even more broken holder!

Glueing it all back together again is not an option because I doubt it would last and it wouldn't be fair on any future buyer (if I did decide to sell).

* I NEED A NEW HOLDER *

Yes - I need a new holder, does anyone have one please?

Matador43 makes a very sensible and pragmatic suggestion in his post above - that I obtain a 'dead deck' (not duck) with an unbroken holder, and transfer all the swappable pieces over (mechanics, wooden plinth, dust cover etc..). 

The trouble is though that the new 'swapped' turntable would no longer feel like mine, i.e. the one I saved up for over a couple of years as a young teenager and cherished, even to point of holding on to it all this time (along with the rest of my B&O system).

The hard nosed among you will rightly say I am being silly and sentimental - which of course I am.

So... where does that leave me?

Well, I am hoping that someone out there has a holder that I can use, either still attached to a deck that will never work again, or as an individual part.

In terms of the various deck types that utilise a LIFT button, I have still to look into compatibility for the part I need. This is not helped by the service manual for my 'type 5240' not showing a part number.

The problem of re-installation can be addressed once and hopefully, after a part is found. 

Many thanks for reading and for any help, regards Carl

 

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