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NAS music missing on Moment/Twonky

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seethroughyou
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seethroughyou Posted: Thu, Jun 6 2019 2:08 AM
I have spent the last few weeks investigating why some of my Local music stored on my NAS isn’t showing up on the Moment. My QNAP recognises my Moment device. I simply can not get the Moment to see all of the music on my NAS. I’ve checked the Twonky settings and the QNAP settings and rebuilt or factory reset my Moment many times. A complete puzzle and frustrating. I’m beginning to regret the purchase of the Moment. Does anybody have any ideas or possible solutions please?

Present: BL90, Beosound Moment, Beosound Core, BL6000, Beogram CD7000, Beogram 7000, BS Essence Remote.

Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, Beocenter 2, Beosound 5, BV5, BV4-50, BV4-65, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4.

 

mbolo01
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mbolo01 replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 6:43 AM
seethroughyou:

I simply can not get the Moment to see all of the music on my NAS.

What do you mean exactly? Have you identified what you cannot see? Do you see everything through the Twonky user interface or through the B&O app?

BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1

seethroughyou
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So for example my QNAP NAS hold this folder of music:

Mozart - Concertos for Two and Three Pianos

When I open Twonky it appears here:

First grey folder located column two in line two.

When you click on it, it opens to:

I assume that as Twonky can see it, the Moment should be able to but doesn’t.

Present: BL90, Beosound Moment, Beosound Core, BL6000, Beogram CD7000, Beogram 7000, BS Essence Remote.

Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, Beocenter 2, Beosound 5, BV5, BV4-50, BV4-65, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4.

 

mbolo01
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mbolo01 replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 1:51 PM
When you go into the « by album » view of the Twonky user interface, do you see these missing albums too? Are all your files FLAC, including the ones you see in your Moments?

BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1

seethroughyou
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mbolo01:

When you go into the « by album » view of the Twonky user interface, do you see these missing albums too? Are all your files FLAC, including the ones you see in your Moments?

BS Moment, BS Core, BS Ouverture, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, H5, TR1

No it doesn’t show in the « by album » view.

Yes all files are FLAC.

On Moment I see Local fires first then a swipe or two swipes later I see DEEZER files only.

Present: BL90, Beosound Moment, Beosound Core, BL6000, Beogram CD7000, Beogram 7000, BS Essence Remote.

Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, Beocenter 2, Beosound 5, BV5, BV4-50, BV4-65, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4.

 

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 3:10 PM

As can be seen in the 3th picture the album is not tagged. So it will be indexed as "unknown" by the Moment in the Album View.

Presumably somewhere between all the Albums you will find an Album Unknown with all tracks  which were not tagged with the Album name.

 

Note: above in Twonky you show the Folder view, but the Moment works with Artist, Albums,Track views. Informations as been stored within the the tag's of the files. If you use the Album view in Twonky you will get the same result!

 

 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 3:29 PM
I've got a QNAP and my Moment has never had an issue.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 3:34 PM
I don't think I use Twonky, my dealer set everything up for me.

But when I look at the NAS from my MBP, I see the music in the File Station and Music Station apps.

None of which is probably helpful to you, but only to say that I've never really had an issue.
seethroughyou
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Carolpa:

As can be seen in the 3th picture the album is not tagged. So it will be indexed as "unknown" by the Moment in the Album View.

Presumably somewhere between all the Albums you will find an Album Unknown with all tracks which were not tagged with the Album name.

Note: above in Twonky you show the Folder view, but the Moment works with Artist, Albums,Track views. Informations as been stored within the the tag's of the files. If you use the Album view in Twonky you will get the same result!

How do you tag the album?

I’ve used id3tag editor and the files in this album have correct metadata.

Present: BL90, Beosound Moment, Beosound Core, BL6000, Beogram CD7000, Beogram 7000, BS Essence Remote.

Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, Beocenter 2, Beosound 5, BV5, BV4-50, BV4-65, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4.

 

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 7:08 PM
seethroughyou:

How do you tag the album?

I’ve used id3tag editor and the files in this album have correct metadata.

nice program to edit the tags. But despite your remark, at least some Albums do not have the correct metadata. See your own example before; Twonky doesn’t recognise the Album. And therefore the Moment also not!

mbolo01
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mbolo01 replied on Thu, Jun 6 2019 9:48 PM
Carolpa:

nice program to edit the tags. But despite your remark, at least some Albums do not have the correct metadata. See your own example before; Twonky doesn’t recognise the Album. And therefore the Moment also not!

I agree with Carolpa, these tracks are missing the Album name while they have the artist. Try to search for this artist and you may see this track under the unknown album of this artist.

You’ll have to correct the album tag, rescan with Twonky (hopefully Twonky is set for manual rescan) and check again with Twonky UI.

If OK then rescan with the Moment if you are in Expert mode with otherwise let the Moment trigger a rescan.

If KO, then let us know

BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1

seethroughyou
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Ok, I have used tag editor for the third time, restarted the Twonky server and rebuilt it. Nothing changed or improved so I did a factory reset on Moment. The albums are now showing in the Moment but no artwork.

What is annoying is that the artwork showed on Roon and all the correct metadata showed on Roon.

To further complicate matters, there are hundreds of albums that are apparently untagged but when I used Roon and my Beosound 5 years ago showed up correctly with the right metadata and artwork.

I’m not sure I have the patience to spend hundreds of hours fiddling with it all just to please Twonky and the Moment.

What is further puzzling is a lot of these albums are downloaded from websites complete with the right metadata and artwork yet Twonky shows them as incomplete.

What a ********* disaster and mess. I’m beginning to regret the Moment purchase with local files. Never had any of these problems with iTunes or Roon. Good grief. Bury your head in your hands moment with exasperation.

Present: BL90, Beosound Moment, Beosound Core, BL6000, Beogram CD7000, Beogram 7000, BS Essence Remote.

Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, Beocenter 2, Beosound 5, BV5, BV4-50, BV4-65, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4.

 

seethroughyou
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The Mozart albums that were showing as LOCAL a few hours ago are now not showing. Only two albums showing. There is no percentage progress showing. So we are now reversing any progress.

Present: BL90, Beosound Moment, Beosound Core, BL6000, Beogram CD7000, Beogram 7000, BS Essence Remote.

Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, Beocenter 2, Beosound 5, BV5, BV4-50, BV4-65, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4.

 

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Sat, Jun 8 2019 8:54 AM
seethroughyou:

Ok, I have used tag editor for the third time, restarted the Twonky server and rebuilt it. Nothing changed or improved so I did a factory reset on Moment. The albums are now showing in the Moment but no artwork.

What is annoying is that the artwork showed on Roon and all the correct metadata showed on Roon.

To further complicate matters, there are hundreds of albums that are apparently untagged but when I used Roon and my Beosound 5 years ago showed up correctly with the right metadata and artwork.

I’m not sure I have the patience to spend hundreds of hours fiddling with it all just to please Twonky and the Moment.

What is further puzzling is a lot of these albums are downloaded from websites complete with the right metadata and artwork yet Twonky shows them as incomplete.

What a ********* disaster and mess. I’m beginning to regret the Moment purchase with local files. Never had any of these problems with iTunes or Roon. Good grief. Bury your head in your hands moment with exasperation.

2 remarks: Roon is a completely different ball game than DLNA and/or iTunes.

iTunes is part of Apples own eco system and they would love to keep it that way! So for years you could have good metadata in iTunes, but using it somewhere else could be tedious. All for their own eco system.

IA64
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IA64 replied on Thu, Dec 26 2019 12:04 AM

seethroughyou:
The Mozart albums that were showing as LOCAL a few hours ago are now not showing. Only two albums showing. There is no percentage progress showing. So we are now reversing any progress.

 

 

 

 

Have you found the solution to this? I also had missing tracks and realized after going through every single track I have that the moment will surprisingly consider some albums as duplicates and ignore them. 

 

For example, I have 4 albums named : Bla bla Part 1 Bla Bla part 2 etc....  In the tag, the Album name is Bla Bla and Disc number i 1,2,3 and 4. 

 

The Genius moment doesn't realize that this is not the same album so it drops it from the list. 

 

That's my observation and now I'm retagging everything from scratch.  

seethroughyou
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Thank you kindly for the suggestion.

To be honest, I no longer have the energy or motivation to try and even attempt a fix for this. I’ve already put in a lot of effort. I actually hate this product now and wish I’d never bought it. Intelligent Roon doesn’t have any issues and catalogues all my music properly with no intervention on my part. It even suggests sensible corrections to my tagging if/when it finds a problem.

I’ve learnt my lesson and I will never buy another B&O audio player again.

Present: BL90, Beosound Moment, Beosound Core, BL6000, Beogram CD7000, Beogram 7000, BS Essence Remote.

Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, Beocenter 2, Beosound 5, BV5, BV4-50, BV4-65, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4.

 

Mr 10Percent
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STU,

I’m jumping in here with a few presumptions. I seem to have had a lifetime myself of trying to get digital media to do what I want in terms of filing and archiving and what I see on the screen – whether that is B&O equipment like the BS5, Avant 55, Eclipse 65 screen via DNLA, or now on an iPad with the Auralic streaming media, the Auralic DAC itself or the Essence with the B&O app.

Similarly, I have had countless problems with NAS, gaining access, passwords and the integration of Twonky (and/or Minimserver). These issues in my opinion and experience are almost 100% nothing to do with B&O, their equipment or their software. Save for the fact that they may be a tad underpowered in processing terms for todays bloated software)

Some experiences:-

1.    BS5 and WMA (Lossless). Taught me to get the naming nomenclature into a system that meets my needs. Folders are named after Artists; Albums are named Artist X – Artist Album Title. Through a tag editor, I deleted lots of rubbish and forced some tags (date) to follow the original album release year) for instance.

There are also many Tags which can remain invisible or appear not to show data. These need to be expunged from your database.

2.    I found the sound of the BS5 to be horrible once I had the BL90s. That is using the NL/ML converter as well as SPDif. Did not work for me. Converted everything to FLAC 1 to 1 and placed everything on a WD4100EX NAS.

3.    WDs software – total nightmare. Think B&O is bad. Think again.

4.    WD NAS is electronically noisy. NAS built for PC data access and not for music delivery. Moved over to the Melco N1H2/60. Immediate improvement in SQ clarity. Gone was the clunky hardware and via SMB File networking (I am not an IT guru here so give a break on the terms), I can rip on my PC, edit tags and drop straight on to the Melco. It is like a pro noiseless hard drive with DNLA (Twonky or Minimserver) compatibility.

 

The Melco interface via my PC made adjusting Twonky easy. Twonky only delivers the metadata I want and because I got the nomenclature the way I want it, everything works 100% perfect.

  • Albums in Artist order
  • Various Artist Albums grouped in certain ways, i.e. Various Jazz (as an Artist), Various Lounge etc…
  • Albums in ABC order
  • Album dates by release date (when not important, I defaulted to 1999 for everything else)
  • Embedded my own Art at maximum resolution possible
  • Where albums are multi-disc – although a pain, I physically numbered them concurrently from the previous disc.

Everything now displays correctly everywhere. However, you have to do this I feel because at the end of the day, any PC-based machine is programmed for sorting – it’s just sometimes you have to delve deep to find the cause why it is doing something other than what you want. 

 

10%

 

 

seethroughyou
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Mr 10%, did you once use a streamer with the BL90. I’m also looking for a music machine that can deliver the best to my BL90. I’ve looked at Innuos, Auralic and Roon Nucleus. I think Geoff who designed the BL90 has used this and one of the B&O configuration documents recommends it as part of a setup.

Present: BL90, Beosound Moment, Beosound Core, BL6000, Beogram CD7000, Beogram 7000, BS Essence Remote.

Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, Beocenter 2, Beosound 5, BV5, BV4-50, BV4-65, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4.

 

Mr 10Percent
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Hi STU,

Yes, quite a bit of splash to get where I want and one can argue of the route/effectiveness. I think GM used the series 1 Auralic Aries (no longer made/had compatibility issues - along with the Auralic Mini with its firmware and the BL90)

1.       The Melco N1H2/60 Hard drive. – called a music server, but the interface is rubbish. Great if you want to use it as a DNLA Server but I found you could not pair it well with the BL90s directly and have a decent level of control. However, works brilliantly with both the Eclipse DNLA renderer and the other BeoPlay gear around the house.

You can combine this with a Streamer/Transport/Bridge (meh…the names and meanings) directly. This apparently is the best way but you lose network/DNLA unless the streamer has this function.

2.       Next I went for SoTM sMS-200 Neo. Nicely built but a kid’s toy for PC nerds. Again, control integration is a problem without a PC. I also found that both USB and SPDif outputs were not much to get excited about.

3.       The BL90s still don’t have integrated USB and Powerlink volume control – so that’s 4 years in March 2020, 1 year out of warranty – so that is root cause (b) annoyance with B&O. Root cause (a) is the lack of integrated hardware to support the BL90s in a fashion we have all come accustomed to.

4.       I then had a difficult choice of identifying what was the next hardware. Where I live when not working away and the time I now actually have at home resting is limited. A bit like pinning the tail on the donkey. I opted for the Auralic system. The G2 platform is built like a tank (milled up-side down mono-chassis) and oozes value at (in the grand scheme of things) for the quality internals.

5.      With questions over USB and SPDif, I opted for the Vega G2 Streaming DAC (Also avoid future Auralic firmware issues as per the Series 1/Mini is negated)        

a)      I got an offer on trading in the SoTM so it made better sense

b)      DAC runs XLR to the Labs, freeing up the SPDif from the Oppo

c)       The DAC can be expanded with the addition of the high-femto Leo Clock. Eliminates ALL jitter to a state difficult to measure. (apparently).

d)      Can expand (will do this soon – a bit over-egging the issue really) by adding the Aries G2 (improved processing and upsampling, reducing process load of the Vega)

e)      The Aries is a DNLA compliant server (Vega is not) – so the Melco can run direct off the Aries and I keep my B&O DNLA compatibility.

f)        The iOS App for the Auralics is as good as any and user friendly.

g)       The G2 series allows currently the highest resolution comms between 4 flagship products using a proprierty link (HDMI connects). I guess the whole/sum of the parts argument for 0.001% extra? Make it a hobby and the man-maths make sense.

6.       I have connected an IR Eye to the BL90 and control volume with an Essence remote. A tad slow in responsiveness but it means I can select music on the Auralic App, deselect the DACS volume control and allow the BL90s to do the work. It peeves me that I just can’t do this volume control on a BR1 without deselecting Eclipse and joining “Beosound”. (point 3 above)

7.       A few nasty surprises though:- The B&O App sometimes has a habit of going to 90 on start-up. No idea why? It seems random now and again. Also getting the BL90 to come off the Auralic source trigger and back on to the Eclipse/Powerlink trigger was a problem. This was solved by making the trigger priorities opposite to intuition (at least to me).

Overall, a big spend. Worth it? Depends on your point of view and priorities. I would have preferred a one-box integrated B&O solution (and frankly would have been cheaper than my outlay) that would work faultlessly with the Lab90s and play at max. resolution without the Eclipse taking everything and dumbing it down somewhat with Powerlink. However, B&O have essentially indicated they are not in this game anymore so it is inevitable we have to move to another brand to get what we want.

Overall, if you have confidence in the USB connects and don’t plan going full Audio-weirdo, I suspect the much cheaper Aries G1 will meet most expectations with the BL90’s (and you can mount a 4TB HDD inside to boot)

 

10

 

 

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