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Beomaster 5 and SSD

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Weebyx
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Weebyx posted on Mon, May 20 2019 6:39 AM

Hi All.

Since I found out how easy it is to install a new harddrive if you have the service tool, I have tried a few discs I had laying around over the weekend.

I tried some 2.5" Toshiba 128gb 5400rpm discs, a Hitachi 5400rpm 250gb, and a Kingston SSDNow 240gb SSD disc.

All the discs I tried worked fine, however the BM5 with SSD disc was much slower in copying 10gb music from network to it, than the rotating discs. Also the MOTS rebuild was for ever in building on the SSD.

The UI was smooth, and the looooong list of radio stations also seemed faster. But It was not a huge difference over the original HDD.

Since the original disc is making noises I dont like, I will be changing the HDD, but I cannot seem to find the MX100 anymore, however I found the MX500, and since I will not be doing any cloning of the discs, I am thinking about giving it a chance.

I am a bit worried though about the slow transfer and MOTS rebuild I experienced with the Kingston SSD.

Anyone has any ideas on why this is a problem, and are you guys experiencing the same with your SSD's ?

I am actually thinking about just putting a new 2.5" 1TB 7200 disc in to ignore the fact that XP embedded does not support SSD that well.

/Weebyx

 

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Tim84
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Answered (Not Verified) Tim84 replied on Mon, May 20 2019 8:18 AM
Suggested by Tim84

I think this is a great project as the noise of my BM5 really annoyes me. I think the problem culd be trimming right? I think the softwre of the BM5 doesn't sopport the TRIM command what is really important for SSDs to operate in full speed. Perhaps there is a way to activate TRIM?

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Weebyx
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Weebyx replied on Mon, May 20 2019 8:30 AM

Tim84:

I think this is a great project as the noise of my BM5 really annoyes me. I think the problem culd be trimming right? I think the softwre of the BM5 doesn't sopport the TRIM command what is really important for SSDs to operate in full speed. Perhaps there is a way to activate TRIM?

I think you are right. I am thinking about trying a new Seagate / WD or Toshiba 1TB 3.5" 7200 RPM disk and see if they are a bit more quiet than the original disk.

/Weebyx

RaMaBo
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RaMaBo replied on Mon, May 20 2019 12:21 PM

Hi,

 

the slow copying could be caused by mislignment of the partitions! They should start at 1MB.

 

Also the Crucial MX300 series should work fine, they use the same SSD Controller Wink

Ralph-Marcus

Weebyx
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Weebyx replied on Mon, May 20 2019 7:31 PM

RaMaBo:

Hi,

 

the slow copying could be caused by mislignment of the partitions! They should start at 1MB.

 

Also the Crucial MX300 series should work fine, they use the same SSD Controller Wink

But how do the partition alignment get wrong ? The disk was empty and I cloned the drive with the servicetool and all is installed from scratch :)

Today I bought a Toshiba P300 7200RPM 1TB drive and have installed the system on that. Right now it is building MOTS for 10gb music, so it lags sometimes, but it seems faster than the original, and the new drive is much quieter than the old :)

45 Euro for the drive :)

/Weebyx

RaMaBo
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RaMaBo replied on Tue, May 21 2019 10:26 AM

Well, the BeoMaster  is a Windows XP device. When XP was developed SSD and SATA where not invented. So sometimes the partions were created based on the old, basic adressing scheme (Cyl, Head, Sectors) and this could lead to start adresses in LBA (logical block adressing) mode which are not on boundaries, but somehere in between. The system can handle this, but the the problem are often the 512 Byte/sector (used by Windows)  <-> 4K byte/sector translations (used by the drive itself).

The bootsector with the partitiontable is on sector 0 so you could start your partitions at sector 1 which works but could result in a slow performance. Better would be multiple of 8 (512B *8 = 4K) Wink

This could lead to the unwanted situation that the beginning of a logical partion block beginns in the first 4K sector of the disc and ends in the second 4K block. Nothing will happen to your data, or the logical structure of the directory in this partition. Except you have to read one 4K block modify and write it back, but to complete the whole write block sequence you have to read the following 4K block, modify it with the remaining data from the first write and write it back to the disc. So writing a 4K Block from the Filesyystem to the disc can result in writing _2_ physical blocks on the disc resulting in doubling the write time.

 

The Toshiba seems to have a clever layout of the LBA adressing. resulting in a proper alignment and a nice speed for you.

And 45 Euro is a good price Smile

Ralph-Marcus

gerard
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gerard replied on Tue, May 21 2019 2:07 PM
Take a look at the BS5/BM5 future proof threat.

I have a Crucial MX500 1TB running in my BM5.

My projekt was to do all the swaping/cloning on the BM5 without additional PC and without Service-tool.

It worked, but I have a boot up error very often, "boot device not found".

After 3 restarts BM5 boots the right way.

As time is running short on other projects, I could not redo the whole cloning. In the meantime, as the service-tool is now available, I think I will stop my BM5 only project and use the service tool to clone the original drive to the SSD.

BTW my original HDD is a 0,5TB and I have to repartition it to 1TB
Weebyx
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Weebyx replied on Wed, May 22 2019 9:01 AM

RaMaBo:

Well, the BeoMaster  is a Windows XP device. When XP was developed SSD and SATA where not invented. So sometimes the partions were created based on the old, basic adressing scheme (Cyl, Head, Sectors) and this could lead to start adresses in LBA (logical block adressing) mode which are not on boundaries, but somehere in between. The system can handle this, but the the problem are often the 512 Byte/sector (used by Windows)  <-> 4K byte/sector translations (used by the drive itself).

The bootsector with the partitiontable is on sector 0 so you could start your partitions at sector 1 which works but could result in a slow performance. Better would be multiple of 8 (512B *8 = 4K) Wink

This could lead to the unwanted situation that the beginning of a logical partion block beginns in the first 4K sector of the disc and ends in the second 4K block. Nothing will happen to your data, or the logical structure of the directory in this partition. Except you have to read one 4K block modify and write it back, but to complete the whole write block sequence you have to read the following 4K block, modify it with the remaining data from the first write and write it back to the disc. So writing a 4K Block from the Filesyystem to the disc can result in writing _2_ physical blocks on the disc resulting in doubling the write time.

 

The Toshiba seems to have a clever layout of the LBA adressing. resulting in a proper alignment and a nice speed for you.

And 45 Euro is a good price Smile

Just did a quick try with the Kingston 240GB SSD again, and after restore with service tool, the partition alignment starts at 32k which is ok for the SSD.

This time it only took 38 minutes to copy the music via network. The Toshiba and original disk takes 1 hour approx. 

So maybe my first test was just bad :)

The Kingston SSDnow 400 240GB is even faster that then 1TB Toshiba 7200 RPM, so maybe I will buy the Crucial MX500 SSD and stick with that instead. 

I have one problem with the N.Radio stations missing covers. The list is populated fine, but no covers will load. They are there on the orignal disk, which is also restored from service tool, and I am pretty sure they were also there the first time I tried the Kingston SSD.

Are these covers random in when they will load ?

 

/Weebyx

RaMaBo
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RaMaBo replied on Wed, May 22 2019 12:43 PM

Weebyx:

...The Kingston SSDnow 400 240GB is even faster that then 1TB Toshiba 7200 RPM, so maybe I will buy the Crucial MX500 SSD and stick with that instead. 

...

 

 

Several people here tried different SSDs without a great success. Those who had success used a Crucial MX100 SSD. This series uses the same onboard controller chip Marvell 88SS1074 as the still available' MX300 series.

The MX500 series uses another onboard controller chip which gives some problems with windows XP and its old SATA driver spport.

 

Atleast that's what i read out from the threads. Therefore i recommend a Crucial MX300 525 or 1050 GB. Whereas all cloned the original disk to the SSD with some cloning tools (software or hardware) and not with the service tool itself. This might give the success you had with the Kingston SSD Now.

They first had to move the 'hidden' system partition to the end, then resize the data-partition and then they had to use the rescue function while booting to reset the system and finally add the B&O Updates. Using the service tool (just a guess, because i don't own a BM5 Sad but the service tool) creates the four partitions and fills them with the necessary data i assume.

 

Concernig the covers i don't have a clue because the BeoMedia1 i own doesn't show or use cover pics for N.Radio or N.Music via BeoPlayer software. There are only covers shown on TV when using N.Music

 

Ralph-Marcus

Weebyx
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Weebyx replied on Wed, May 22 2019 1:33 PM

RaMaBo:

Weebyx:

...The Kingston SSDnow 400 240GB is even faster that then 1TB Toshiba 7200 RPM, so maybe I will buy the Crucial MX500 SSD and stick with that instead. 

...

 

 

Several people here tried different SSDs without a great success. Those who had success used a Crucial MX100 SSD. This series uses the same onboard controller chip Marvell 88SS1074 as the still available' MX300 series.

The MX500 series uses another onboard controller chip which gives some problems with windows XP and its old SATA driver spport.

 

Atleast that's what i read out from the threads. Therefore i recommend a Crucial MX300 525 or 1050 GB. Whereas all cloned the original disk to the SSD with some cloning tools (software or hardware) and not with the service tool itself. This might give the success you had with the Kingston SSD Now.

They first had to move the 'hidden' system partition to the end, then resize the data-partition and then they had to use the rescue function while booting to reset the system and finally add the B&O Updates. Using the service tool (just a guess, because i don't own a BM5 Sad but the service tool) creates the four partitions and fills them with the necessary data i assume.

 

Concernig the covers i don't have a clue because the BeoMedia1 i own doesn't show or use cover pics for N.Radio or N.Music via BeoPlayer software. There are only covers shown on TV when using N.Music

 

The servicetool. uses Ghost32 to restore an image created at B&O, this creates all the correct partitions, and also handles serial number and partitioning the large Data partition.

So I guess there are more disks that can be used if the tool is used for restore.

However, I seem to have figured out the issue with the covers. In the logs for the BM, there are issues concerning parsing of XML data with Radio station metadata.

My concern is that B&O has updated the N.RADIO list with data that causes XML parsing errors..

I Will try to do a restore without updating to the latest SW and see if it is a bug in the latest.

/Weebyx

Weebyx
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Weebyx replied on Wed, May 22 2019 3:32 PM

Weebyx:

RaMaBo:

Weebyx:

...The Kingston SSDnow 400 240GB is even faster that then 1TB Toshiba 7200 RPM, so maybe I will buy the Crucial MX500 SSD and stick with that instead. 

...

 

 

Several people here tried different SSDs without a great success. Those who had success used a Crucial MX100 SSD. This series uses the same onboard controller chip Marvell 88SS1074 as the still available' MX300 series.

The MX500 series uses another onboard controller chip which gives some problems with windows XP and its old SATA driver spport.

 

Atleast that's what i read out from the threads. Therefore i recommend a Crucial MX300 525 or 1050 GB. Whereas all cloned the original disk to the SSD with some cloning tools (software or hardware) and not with the service tool itself. This might give the success you had with the Kingston SSD Now.

They first had to move the 'hidden' system partition to the end, then resize the data-partition and then they had to use the rescue function while booting to reset the system and finally add the B&O Updates. Using the service tool (just a guess, because i don't own a BM5 Sad but the service tool) creates the four partitions and fills them with the necessary data i assume.

 

Concernig the covers i don't have a clue because the BeoMedia1 i own doesn't show or use cover pics for N.Radio or N.Music via BeoPlayer software. There are only covers shown on TV when using N.Music

 

The servicetool. uses Ghost32 to restore an image created at B&O, this creates all the correct partitions, and also handles serial number and partitioning the large Data partition.

So I guess there are more disks that can be used if the tool is used for restore.

However, I seem to have figured out the issue with the covers. In the logs for the BM, there are issues concerning parsing of XML data with Radio station metadata.

My concern is that B&O has updated the N.RADIO list with data that causes XML parsing errors..

I Will try to do a restore without updating to the latest SW and see if it is a bug in the latest.

/Weebyx

Ok, the issues with the radio station covers is weird. They work if I use the original 500GB harddrive. If I use the 1TB Toshiba or the 240GB Kingston SSD, they stop working :(

This is really really weird as I am sure I had the stations working on other drives than the Original. Time to go back to the other drives I tested :)

 

/Weebyx

 

Weebyx
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Weebyx replied on Wed, May 22 2019 6:41 PM

Weebyx:

Weebyx:

RaMaBo:

Weebyx:

...The Kingston SSDnow 400 240GB is even faster that then 1TB Toshiba 7200 RPM, so maybe I will buy the Crucial MX500 SSD and stick with that instead. 

...

 

 

Several people here tried different SSDs without a great success. Those who had success used a Crucial MX100 SSD. This series uses the same onboard controller chip Marvell 88SS1074 as the still available' MX300 series.

The MX500 series uses another onboard controller chip which gives some problems with windows XP and its old SATA driver spport.

 

Atleast that's what i read out from the threads. Therefore i recommend a Crucial MX300 525 or 1050 GB. Whereas all cloned the original disk to the SSD with some cloning tools (software or hardware) and not with the service tool itself. This might give the success you had with the Kingston SSD Now.

They first had to move the 'hidden' system partition to the end, then resize the data-partition and then they had to use the rescue function while booting to reset the system and finally add the B&O Updates. Using the service tool (just a guess, because i don't own a BM5 Sad but the service tool) creates the four partitions and fills them with the necessary data i assume.

 

Concernig the covers i don't have a clue because the BeoMedia1 i own doesn't show or use cover pics for N.Radio or N.Music via BeoPlayer software. There are only covers shown on TV when using N.Music

 

The servicetool. uses Ghost32 to restore an image created at B&O, this creates all the correct partitions, and also handles serial number and partitioning the large Data partition.

So I guess there are more disks that can be used if the tool is used for restore.

However, I seem to have figured out the issue with the covers. In the logs for the BM, there are issues concerning parsing of XML data with Radio station metadata.

My concern is that B&O has updated the N.RADIO list with data that causes XML parsing errors..

I Will try to do a restore without updating to the latest SW and see if it is a bug in the latest.

/Weebyx

Ok, the issues with the radio station covers is weird. They work if I use the original 500GB harddrive. If I use the 1TB Toshiba or the 240GB Kingston SSD, they stop working :(

This is really really weird as I am sure I had the stations working on other drives than the Original. Time to go back to the other drives I tested :)

 

/Weebyx

 

Update :)

I think the Beomaster 5 SW is kind of buggy and memory-leaky.. After a few reboots, the radio stations begins to download and update logo's without faults in the logfiles about XML parsing errors and so on :)

So... The Toshiba 1TB works fine :)

/Weebyx

bennie17
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Thank for your guide.

I have succeeded in upgrading to SSD.

My method and equipment :

1. SSD : Crucial BX500 960GB SSD (Micron)

     Original HDD : Hitachi 500G (JUL 2010)

2. Clone method : Hard clone by NEXT-943DCU3 USB3.0/2Bay

3. Procedure

   1) take out the original HDD from my Beomaster 5

   2) clone it to new SSD(BX500) by NEXT-943DCU3

   3) increase the volume of DATA (in SSD) by gparted (LINUX)

   4) relocated the volume of DATA by window HDD manger  because 1 Gb was remained. 

   5) install the new SSD to my Beomaster 5

   6) restart 3 times because no booting system message.

   7) after booked, select beomaster 5 recovery

   8) select "beomaster update".

   9) I can use beomaster 5 like the original hdd.

 

* After 8), it was so slow and some lag at first. but now same as the original status.

** I did not  use "the service tool"

 

Thanks and good luck.

gerard
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@ Weebyx

Could you tell us the procedure you used to install a new HDD or SSD using the service tool?

1) I replaced the original HDD by the new SSD connected to SATA1 port.

2) I’ve connected the original HDD to SATA2 and a powersupply.

3)Connected the service tool stick to the usb

4) Powered up the BM5 while holding the ESC-key.

5) Boot menu pops up , when selecting *HDD I see the original Hitachi HDD, the Sandisk 1TB SSD and the USB-flash drive.

6) selected the USB-Flash drive

7) Service tool comes up

8) clicked RESTORE

9) Symantec Ghost opens and starts cloning.

10) 4 disks have to be cloned, but after 3/4 finished window pops up and asks for reboot.

Here comes the problem, reboot goes to the following window:

11) After this I disconnected the original HDD and the USB-Flash drive.

12) on reboot I chose the BM5 recovery

procedure is started and reboots several times (3 I think)

13) BM5 boots to the user interface and works fine.

During the whole procedure I never got a boot error with this Sandisk ULTRA 3D SSD .

I think compatibility is better then with my Crucial MX500
Weebyx
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gerard:
@ Weebyx

 

Could you tell us the procedure you used to install a new HDD or SSD using the service tool?

 

 

1) I replaced the original HDD by the new SSD connected to SATA1 port.

 

2) I’ve connected the original HDD to SATA2 and a powersupply.

 

3)Connected the service tool stick to the usb

 

4) Powered up the BM5 while holding the ESC-key.

 

5) Boot menu pops up , when selecting *HDD I see the original Hitachi HDD, the Sandisk 1TB SSD and the USB-flash drive.

 

6) selected the USB-Flash drive

 

7) Service tool comes up

 

8) clicked RESTORE

 

9) Symantec Ghost opens and starts cloning.

 

 

 

 

10) 4 disks have to be cloned, but after 3/4 finished window pops up and asks for reboot.

 

Here comes the problem, reboot goes to the following window:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11) After this I disconnected the original HDD and the USB-Flash drive.

 

 

12) on reboot I chose the BM5 recovery

 

procedure is started and reboots several times (3 I think)

 

 

13) BM5 boots to the user interface and works fine.

 

 

During the whole procedure I never got a boot error with this Sandisk ULTRA 3D SSD .

 

I think compatibility is better then with my Crucial MX500

I used the "Clone entire HDD" option, this starts 100% from scratch. I have not tried the "Restore" option like you did.

/Weebyx

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