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Bang & Olufsen announces preliminary financial results for the third quarter

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Jeff
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Jeff posted on Tue, Mar 26 2019 4:10 PM

Submitted without comment, for now:

B&O Report

“The results we have delivered in the third quarter are clearly not
satisfactory. We have overestimated the speed at which we have been able to
drive the change towards a more retail-led and demand driven sales and
distribution network. Combined with the unexpected decline in TV revenue in
the quarter, this has led us to reassess our outlook for the year,” says CEO Henrik Clausen.

Jeff

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seethroughyou
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I completely agree with Jeff above. 

 

A B&O TV was perhaps 2-4 times the cost of a good Sony or Panasonic in the 80s and 90s. You paid the price because it was just in reach and the integration, reliability and functionality was worth it. B&O TVs now cost 10 times. By raising prices to Oligarch levels, they lost their working and middle income folk - what a disastrous strategy. 


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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Mar 30 2019 12:06 PM

Jeff:

I think the HDR thing is vastly overrated. I think many people think it increases the dynamic range of the panel, it doesn't. It does not lower the black level or increase the white level, it's the video equivalent  of Ansel Adams' Zone System. It lightens some areas and darkens others to try and fit a higher dynamic range into the range available in the panel. That can be done well, or it can result in a freakishly overblown effect.

The film, assuming the video was sourced from film, had a limited dynamic range to start with, and either film or video, the cinematographer/cameraman had to decide how to expose the video to capture what the director wanted. Trying to go in after the fact and diddle with contrast and brightness levels of different parts of the image has the potential to be an improvement, but also has perhaps a greater potential to be gimmicky looking. I remember the early days of stereo LPs where stereo was new new new. No center image at all, they were mixed with everything panned right or left so by god you'd know you had a stereo!

I guess rated / overrated is a bit subjective. HDR can be quite striking if done well, which we know isn't always the case.

I guess my point above was that while the extra resolution of 4K is not really very noticeable at distances of 10 feet etc, the HDR colours are a bit more noticeable at those distances.

Whether they are more natural, I agree, is a whole different debate.

 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Mar 30 2019 2:47 PM

Back when I was doing B&W photography a lot in my earlier years, and had my own darkroom, I played around with the Zone System. You're spot on about can be done well or not well. When I got everything right, it did capture the image I saw very well, when not, it was often awful. I never played around with it long enough to get expert at it, not like Saint Ansel.

I've only seen a couple of demos of HDR at a store, but most of the images were too WOW and not normal looking, but a  couple were quite nice. I also expect that it was like the early stereo demos, over exaggerated to make the great unwashed see the effects, time will tell I guess whether it will catch on or go the way of 3D TV.

But, if you're looking for a 1080p plasma today, you aren't going to find one, so we might as well figure out how to live with OLED and 4K/HDR as it's the best that's currently available. Hopefully my set will last until this all gets sorted out and settles down.

Jeff

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Mar 30 2019 3:43 PM

Jeff:

Back when I was doing B&W photography a lot in my earlier years, and had my own darkroom, I played around with the Zone System. You're spot on about can be done well or not well. When I got everything right, it did capture the image I saw very well, when not, it was often awful. I never played around with it long enough to get expert at it, not like Saint Ansel.

I've only seen a couple of demos of HDR at a store, but most of the images were too WOW and not normal looking, but a  couple were quite nice. I also expect that it was like the early stereo demos, over exaggerated to make the great unwashed see the effects, time will tell I guess whether it will catch on or go the way of 3D TV.

But, if you're looking for a 1080p plasma today, you aren't going to find one, so we might as well figure out how to live with OLED and 4K/HDR as it's the best that's currently available. Hopefully my set will last until this all gets sorted out and settles down.

Yep, in store demos aren't the best, given the vvid picture modes they use.

I did spend some time with my sisters new Panasonic OLED, lauded amongst the current OLED generation for its colour accuracy out of the box, and closer to the more natural colours of top end plasmas.  They sit quite close to it - and it is damn nice, not in a garish way, but you can see why the Panny gets the reviews that it does.

But at 10 feet away, and with a BV12 (or similar in your case), any upgrading itch can wait - in a very good place to start with.

beolion
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What always surprised me a little bit the massive price point of the TV’s. Especially now.

I would have thought - and hoped - that they would reduce the price of TV’s and thereby have customers who are potential speaker buyers.

But that is just my opinion but people today might not really buy into surround systems/speakers like in the “old days”, especially now where we see good front speakers able to produce some kind of virtual surround.
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Mar 30 2019 4:49 PM

@Sandyb

Glad to hear Panasonic is doing a good job with someone else's OLED panel. I remember reading years ago, back when the thing was 480 vs. 720 vs. 1080, a piece by the Imaging Science Foundation (ISF). Their point was resolution, e.g. number of pixels, was a long way from being the most important aspect of performance. I can't recall the order now, but contrast/black levels, gray scale linearity, color temperature, and color decoder accuracy were all much more importat. One good thing I do to evaluate a panel and the stock settings is to watch a good B&W movie. That will show up problems in everything but color decoder, it's easier to see anomalies in the other things above with a B&W image, especially color temp. Many sets aren't black and white, but gray and blue. Surprise

Jeff

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PaulGiles
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beolion:

What always surprised me a little bit the massive price point of the TV’s. Especially now.

I would have thought - and hoped - that they would reduce the price of TV’s and thereby have customers who are potential speaker buyers.

But that is just my opinion but people today might not really buy into surround systems/speakers like in the “old days”, especially now where we see good front speakers able to produce some kind of virtual surround.

Agreed, know a couple B&O customers that never even considered the BV due to price point.

The Eclipse has been pretty much discounted from launch though with their trade in deal

vikinger
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Apparently Aston Martin Lagonda shares are down 40% since their Oct 2018 launch. Does this indicate that the luxury markets have peaked and that B&O had better refocus again?

Graham

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vikinger:

Apparently Aston Martin Lagonda shares are down 40% since their Oct 2018 launch. Does this indicate that the luxury markets have peaked and that B&O had better refocus again?

Graham

Not necessarily. It's quite dangerous to look at the share price of one company and turn it into an indicator for a certain line of business or in this case the luxury market. If you look at LVMH stock price for instance it closed at € 258,20 at the end of last year. Last Friday it said € 324,10 on the boards. If you take that as an indicator you would imagine the luxury market about to explode.

I would try and look for indicators like the S&P global luxury index, which is based on 80 of the largest publicly traded companies. At the time of writing, this index shows a decline of 2.6% over the last year. 

 

Vähintään yhdeksänkymmentä prosenttia suomalainen! 

BEOVOX141
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It really is very, very simple. Without products, you will not have sales! And right now the shelves are empty!

The staged product range is virtually non-existing apart from a couple of speakers, and a hockey puck and both remaining TV sets are based on ageing OEM products.

The most appealing product right now is actually Beoamp 2,- Old school virtues,- Icepower and versatile. Pair with a couple of Beovox 2 and you have a reasonably priced powerful audio system, at approx 10.000 dkk which is pretty much the price of a MONO (?) Beosound1.

Duels
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Duels replied on Sun, Mar 31 2019 2:25 PM
BEOVOX141:

It really is very, very simple. Without products, you will not have sales! And right now the shelves are empty!

You are right if course. However the recent company webcast did say that the next year will see a significant number of new product releases across all categories.
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sun, Mar 31 2019 3:10 PM

Wonder how the Edge i selling?

Jeff

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beocool
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BEOVOX141:
It really is very, very simple. Without products, you will not have sales! And right now the shelves are empty!

The shelves are hardly empty. I'd say the shelves are stuffed with too many products with a relatively low profit margin that aren't appealing to enough people. 

 

Vähintään yhdeksänkymmentä prosenttia suomalainen! 

BEOVOX141
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I did hear that,- you could hope for:

A 4k Beosystem, capable of driving any brand of TV.

A set of speakers for 7.1, including a dedicated centre speaker.  

A sound system without strange proprietary hard to explain mono algorithms, with an actual design!

Let's see...

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sun, Mar 31 2019 3:46 PM

beocool:

BEOVOX141:
It really is very, very simple. Without products, you will not have sales! And right now the shelves are empty!

The shelves are hardly empty. I'd say the shelves are stuffed with too many products with a relatively low profit margin that aren't appealing to enough people. 

IMO the products are too scattered, a result of what appears to have been a frantic approach to rush things to market, throwing things against the wall to see if anything sticks. B&O used to take a more conservative, integrated approach, all their products looked good together, all worked together more or less, their showrooms looked like a well conceived systems approach, with a consistent design language. Fewer products, better integrated, and they worked.

Jeff

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Duels
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Duels replied on Sun, Mar 31 2019 4:01 PM
Jeff:

Wonder how the Edge i selling?

Jeff

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I don’t get the feeling they are shifting huge numbers. My local dealer had sold three by Christmas which was when I last asked.
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