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Bang & Olufsen announces preliminary financial results for the third quarter

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Jeff
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Jeff posted on Tue, Mar 26 2019 4:10 PM

Submitted without comment, for now:

B&O Report

“The results we have delivered in the third quarter are clearly not
satisfactory. We have overestimated the speed at which we have been able to
drive the change towards a more retail-led and demand driven sales and
distribution network. Combined with the unexpected decline in TV revenue in
the quarter, this has led us to reassess our outlook for the year,” says CEO Henrik Clausen.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

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seethroughyou
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I completely agree with Jeff above. 

 

A B&O TV was perhaps 2-4 times the cost of a good Sony or Panasonic in the 80s and 90s. You paid the price because it was just in reach and the integration, reliability and functionality was worth it. B&O TVs now cost 10 times. By raising prices to Oligarch levels, they lost their working and middle income folk - what a disastrous strategy. 


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Millemissen
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Duels:

The full webcast is worth a listen if you have a spare thirty minutes.

IMO that is what anyone, who wants to comment, ought to do.....but - I fear - haven’t done (yet).

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

poodleboy
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Millemissen:

Duels:

The full webcast is worth a listen if you have a spare thirty minutes.

IMO that is what anyone, who wants to comment, ought to do.....but - I fear - haven’t done (yet).

MM

So unless one has heard the unplanned but scripted webcast, one should not comment? OK. 

B&O has experienced nearly 60% loss of book value in 3 months, in 2 huge lots. No need to comment on THAT. 

Millemissen
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You can comment on anything - noone can hold you back.....we all know.

Please notice my phrasing ‘ought to’ - in my poor english that means ‘I’d strongly recommend someone to do it’.

You don’t have to, if you don’t feel that you need these explanations from the CEO.

As for the loss - this is not the first time......these guys don’t give up that easy, which should be common knowledge for anyone with some ‘beo insight ’.

However, feel free to plead for negativity, if that suits you best.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Puncher
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Huh? So, this is actually good news in disguise and we are all fools for not seeing it! - apart from MM obviously.Huh?

Ban boring signatures!

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Mar 29 2019 9:44 AM

Puncher:

Huh? So, this is actually good news in disguise and we are all fools for not seeing it! - apart from MM obviously.Huh?

You mean B&O's secret PR machine? Cool

PeterBOBP
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Millemissen:

Please notice my phrasing ‘ought to’ - in my poor english that means ‘I’d strongly recommend someone to do it’.

I would swap "ought to" fo "suggest you ...." if I were you  Smile (= suggestion)

Anyway I took your advice and here is what stood out for me: 

We can expect lots of new products in all categories (staged, on the go, flexible). looking forward to it and please make them affordable Smile

The CEO said their core capabilities are: sound, design and craft. Video was not mentioned, so no longer a core capability which is true if you insource the video capability. This does imo not mean they will not sell TVs anymore, they just won't do any development on them. 

On the lack of TV revenue. What I understand is that they sell less TVs to retailers ("sell in"), partly because of less "sell out"  retailers had expected. Yet there was an increase of sell out compared to last year. My reading of this is: the eclipse was launched, it did relatively well in terms of revenue (no doubt because of the good margin). The clients that will buy anything of B&O and or are so rich they could not care about the price by now have bought this awesome TV with awesome sound. But the rest? They think it is not worth the money and show less interest than everyone expected. Above and beyond dealers cannot point them to the next model down as the Horizon despite its good look is an old TV in terms of technology (mainly: black levels and smart tv functions). So nothing to sell there either. 

On the retailer side. Nothing to add to what was said (partly because I did not understand everything what was said). I would consider even more radical changes and reduce the number of resellers even further (sorry for any retailers here ...) and opt for a limited number of "Experience centers" (think Tesla / Apple).  Not that current resellers are not doing their job (somedo some do not) , but more and more people know what they want read everything what they need to know online and are happy to order online as well. Of course I did not do the numbers, but maybe this reduces costs as well and with self owned stores you can most likely give a more consistent experience and service. 

Finally I am always a bit surprised that with these type of sessions the business side of things (money, marketing, retail, cash flow etc) are discussed and questioned, but hardly anything on the product side of things / product strategy (there was one questions that was not answered). I do not think the business side of things is unimportant, but it starts with the products. Hopefully their new CTO can change that and put more emphasis on software at the same time as well. 

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Mar 29 2019 4:20 PM

PeterBOBP:

The clients that will buy anything of B&O and or are so rich they could not care about the price by now have bought this awesome TV with awesome sound. But the rest? They think it is not worth the money and show less interest than everyone expected. Above and beyond dealers cannot point them to the next model down as the Horizon despite its good look is an old TV in terms of technology (mainly: black levels and smart tv functions). So nothing to sell there either. s is unimportant, but it starts with the products. Hopefully their new CTO can change that and put more emphasis on software at the same time as well. 

Not forgetting that people just do not need to upgrade as frequently. There are people here in Bath with a tonne of cash. One still uses a BV9 and is happy and another has a 11-55, again happy. They don't care about 4K. And that's the irony. B&O's target audience can live with a HD from a few years ago as they don't need the latest technologies - therefore an Eclipse offers them very little over their tried-and-tested 11-55.

For them it's less about the additional £10K bill to upgrade, just more to do with satisfaction and a fully-working TV. The desire to upgrade is minimal for this clientele.

beolion
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Well. I don’t have a tonne of cash but have a 7-55 and am pretty happy with it. Had it for 9 years now (one of the first shipments in 2009).

Sitting 3.5 metres away, 1080p still looks amazing. And Apple TV is doing the smart thing I need.

Those buying the Eclipse today might say the same in 2029 :-)
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Mar 29 2019 5:21 PM

beolion:

Sitting 3.5 metres away, 1080p still looks amazing. And Apple TV is doing the smart thing I need.

Definitely true. I am as avid a movie watcher as anyone, and very serious about video performance. 4K really doesn't offer any improvement that I care about or can get excited about. I have a 65 inch Panasonic VT series plasma, supposedly the same panel as the BV12. It's performance is stunning, outstanding black level and shadow detail, which matters far more than 4K.

Heck, I still have my 12 year old 42 inch Panasonic EDTV, 480p, and it's contrast and black levels are better than about any LCD based panels, and from 10 feet away you can't tell how many pixels there are, the picture is still outstanding.

Like you I use an Apple TV to consolidate the smart TV functions, easier and cheaper to upgrade it if needed than buy another panel, and since they finally made peace with Amazon enough to offer Amazon Prime Video as an app, it does everything I need.

This is where the Horizon falls down to me, the design is very attractive, simple, minimalist, but the performance of the panel on blacks and shadow detail is insufficient for something in that price range. I think the video performance of the BV11 is far superior.

Time will tell if B&O can get it's act together or not, so far their ideas are not encouraging to me. The problem is not, I think, that they need one or two stunning products, it's that their whole line lacks the cohesiveness and quality/reliability they used to offer. It's a collection of bits and pieces, not an integrated design language.

Guess I'll go put on my slippers and get my pipe ready now...Stick out tongue

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Mar 29 2019 5:51 PM

Jeff:

beolion:

Sitting 3.5 metres away, 1080p still looks amazing. And Apple TV is doing the smart thing I need.

Definitely true. I am as avid a movie watcher as anyone, and very serious about video performance. 4K really doesn't offer any improvement that I care about or can get excited about. I have a 65 inch Panasonic VT series plasma, supposedly the same panel as the BV12. It's performance is stunning, outstanding black level and shadow detail, which matters far more than 4K.

Heck, I still have my 12 year old 42 inch Panasonic EDTV, 480p, and it's contrast and black levels are better than about any LCD based panels, and from 10 feet away you can't tell how many pixels there are, the picture is still outstanding.

Like you I use an Apple TV to consolidate the smart TV functions, easier and cheaper to upgrade it if needed than buy another panel, and since they finally made peace with Amazon enough to offer Amazon Prime Video as an app, it does everything I need.

This is where the Horizon falls down to me, the design is very attractive, simple, minimalist, but the performance of the panel on blacks and shadow detail is insufficient for something in that price range. I think the video performance of the BV11 is far superior.

Time will tell if B&O can get it's act together or not, so far their ideas are not encouraging to me. The problem is not, I think, that they need one or two stunning products, it's that their whole line lacks the cohesiveness and quality/reliability they used to offer. It's a collection of bits and pieces, not an integrated design language.

Guess I'll go put on my slippers and get my pipe ready now...Stick out tongue

 

Yep - I have a BV 12 as my main screen, and its way better than the Avant MK 1 in my second room.

Any proper film is watched on the 12, no competition.

As for the Horizon, I had one of these newer panels in the BV14 (prior to the Avant Mk1) - and it was an atrocity for watching movies, simply incompetent at shadow detail.

With respect to viewing distance, I think if you (general you) look at the studies of what the eye can determine, 10 feet is at the very outer edge (or maybe a touch beyond) where 4K is noticeably better than 1080P.   

HDR is the main reason for upgrading - but again, coming from the rich and naturalistic colours of a top end plasma, I don't see any great hurry.

 

 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Mar 29 2019 6:25 PM

I think the HDR thing is vastly overrated. I think many people think it increases the dynamic range of the panel, it doesn't. It does not lower the black level or increase the white level, it's the video equivalent  of Ansel Adams' Zone System. It lightens some areas and darkens others to try and fit a higher dynamic range into the range available in the panel. That can be done well, or it can result in a freakishly overblown effect.

The film, assuming the video was sourced from film, had a limited dynamic range to start with, and either film or video, the cinematographer/cameraman had to decide how to expose the video to capture what the director wanted. Trying to go in after the fact and diddle with contrast and brightness levels of different parts of the image has the potential to be an improvement, but also has perhaps a greater potential to be gimmicky looking. I remember the early days of stereo LPs where stereo was new new new. No center image at all, they were mixed with everything panned right or left so by god you'd know you had a stereo!

Jeff

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poodleboy
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"No center image at all, they were mixed with everything panned right or left so by god you'd know you had a stereo!"

@Jeff. So funny. I remember playing The Beatles' "Hello Goodbye" 45 on my brother's first stereo and freaked out because the vocals were in 1 channel and the strings were in the other. Decades later we know the Beatles catalog was remixed in lightning speed from mono to charge a bit extra. 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Mar 29 2019 11:49 PM

And first they sold you the mono recording, then the faked stereo one, then a better stereo mix, then a CD of it, then a remastered CD, then a High Def audio download...

Reminds me of the scene in "Men In Black" where he says "This is going to replace the CD, guess I'll have to buy another copy of the White Album."

Jeff

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Millemissen
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@Jeff

You forgot the MQA version 🤪

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Millemissen
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......and in between the SACD version!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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