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POLL : Buying New or Buying Used?

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9 LEE
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9 LEE Posted: Mon, Mar 4 2019 2:39 PM

Seeing the response to my previous thread, I now wonder how many people will only buy used B&O as opposed to new?  Without new, there will be no used - so it's a chicken and egg situation, but if it gets to the point where there's no new or used, it's game over for B&O.

So, how do you buy your B&O main products (I'm not referring to Headphones or Earphones by the way).

How do you buy your 'Main Brand' B&O products?

  • Always bought new and will always buy new. (5%)
  • Always bought new. Now buy both new and used. (7.5%)
  • Always bought new. Now only buy used. (11.3%)
  • Always bought used. Now buy both new and used. (16.3%)
  • Always bought used. WIll never buy new. (25%)
  • Always bought both new and used. Will remain this way. (35%)
  • Total Votes: 80
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 2:57 PM

I'm in the bought both new and used, but now only buy used if I buy at all. B&O's direction is depressing and I don't like the new products as well as the old, or trust their reliability. Unless and until B&O starts building better kit that's stylistically improved, if I need anything it'll be used, and older, not used new generation stuff.

Jeff

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politician
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In the context of this discussion, are we treating ex-demo as "new" or "used"?

Rob - Danish AV
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i guess ex-demo from a dealer would be classified as new, as its still from the dealer?

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Jeff replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 10:48 PM

Rob - Danish AV:

i guess ex-demo from a dealer would be classified as new, as its still from the dealer?

The last "new" B&O product I bought was a pair of ex-demo Beolab 9s. New or used? Live or Memorex? Depends on your point of view I guess, but I got the full warranty on them as if they were new.

Jeff

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Mikipidia
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if ''ex demo'' is new, is a secondhand (under a year old) also new? I would rate ''ex demo'' as second hand, because dealers tend to push them harder to show them of vs ''normal'' customers. Nothing wrong with ex demo though, I kind of like that it's an option.

New: Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beovision eclipse, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound 1 Bronze edition, Beoplay M3.

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Old: Beolab 1's, beolab 2, beovision 10-46, overture 2300, beolab 8000's, beolab 4000's, beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

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Andrew replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 9:50 AM

I used to buy new when it was affordable, now I buy used as you can get some great refurbished stuff and don't have to bother with controlling it all with an iPhone and no software issues.

Recently I have bought new valve equipment rather than B&O, mainly because I love the sound and look of it. Still love B&O classic equipment but buying new competes with other hobbies like Sailing and Amateur Radio. I doubt I would change my M100-2s though as they sound superb through the new system.

At some point I need to change my BV8 - it doesn't get used much and is in a cabinet anyway so I will most likely buy a non B&O set and control it with a lintronic code converter - a fraction of the cost of a B&O TV and the first time I will not have a B&O TV in 30 years of adult life. If it wasn't in a cabinet then I would but a second hand B&O set rather than stray away. 

I do still love the brand and it would be a shame to see it go, but the prices are way too high and technology is moving in a different direction to me.

The sad part of it is that I am now in a position having paid of my mortgage, not having kids and having disposable income, after many years of not having it, to be able to buy brand new B&O but would rather now spend my money on other activities. Perhaps that's just something to do with getting older and personal preference coupled with the fact that there isn't anything new from B&O that I feel a need to own.

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moxxey replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 10:03 AM

Andrew:

I do still love the brand and it would be a shame to see it go, but the prices are way too high and technology is moving in a different direction to me.

I used to be in my local (Bath) dealer at least once every other week, just keeping up-to-date, looking for ex-demo offers and more. I'd trade in my TV every 2-3 years and receive a decent price, meaning I could upgrade often and I'd regularly upgrade my speakers and buy some ex-demo kit, too. Often spent £3-5000/year if not more.

Now? Almost nothing. Can't remember the last time I was in any B&O dealer (I didn't bother visiting the 3 in Munich when I was there in January!), rarely purchase anything, keeping my existing products and only occasionally invest in "BeoPlay" products. To be honest, I'm much more critical of B&O products, too - the BeoSound 1 was rather disappointing and the A6 only a shade better. Both were sold on.

9 LEE
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9 LEE replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 2:49 PM

For the sake of argument, I would class Official Dealer shop floor ex-demo products as 'new' because they should not be older than 6 months old and will come with a fresh manufacturers warranty as if you were the first owner.

'Second Life' from an Official Dealer, a reseller, or eBay all count as 'used'.

Lee

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Stan replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 3:25 PM

I'm in the US, there's not really an after-market for B&O, except e-bay which is fraught with peril (unknown quality, massive shipping charges).  After I bought my first system new (BL9000 + BL8000), pretty much everything else was "open box" from the dealer.  I determined that "new" wasn't necessary because of the robust build quality and slow product cycles, but buying "used" in the US is more hassle and risk than I care to take on.  I did buy some used BL1s from a pawn shop (found them via ebay, but purchased only after looking/listening at the pawn shop).  I did break the open box cycle and buy a new Eclipse last year.  However, now that my local dealer is closed, there's no more readily available open box so I don't see buying much - although, to be fair, I'm very well stocked with B&O so I'd probably not buy much even if my dealer was still open. 

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Jeff replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 3:55 PM

Stan:

I'm in the US, there's not really an after-market for B&O, except e-bay which is fraught with peril (unknown quality, massive shipping charges).  After I bought my first system new (BL9000 + BL8000), pretty much everything else was "open box" from the dealer.  I determined that "new" wasn't necessary because of the robust build quality and slow product cycles, but buying "used" in the US is more hassle and risk than I care to take on.  I did buy some used BL1s from a pawn shop (found them via ebay, but purchased only after looking/listening at the pawn shop).  I did break the open box cycle and buy a new Eclipse last year.  However, now that my local dealer is closed, there's no more readily available open box so I don't see buying much - although, to be fair, I'm very well stocked with B&O so I'd probably not buy much even if my dealer was still open. 

I hear you on the state of used sales here in the US. EBay is fraught with problems. Most of the equipment is poorly maintained, in bad or hard to determine condition, usually poorly packed by people who have no idea how to do it (especially turntables, the horror stories I've heard), and they want a fortune for it! I longed for a company like Lee's Lifestyle AV what sold used B&O gear at sane prices, and who was honorable and only sold quality pieces.

Like you I bought my BS9000/BL8000 setup new, my Beogram 3000 new, and my BL9s were ex-demo therefore "new" by Lee's definition and "open box" by yours and got a good price on them. I'd love a set of the pizza boxes, a full set, but finding any of them in decent condition via eBay seems almost impossible.

My dealer has been closed for a couple of years now, the nearest one (allegedly, according to the B&O dealer page which I have no idea if it's accurate or wishful thinking) is about 800 miles away, at least.

 

Jeff

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AnalogPlanet
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I would happily buy new (if I can afford and I believe it makes sense to me technologically).

Otherwise, I‘ll continue to buy used. So far I was able to buy a barely used Moment @ 900EUR and a pair of lovely BL17s @ 800EUR. Great deals, and I never bought anything just to take commercial benefit out of the deal (resell it at higher price).

Now looking for the great deal in Avant 55.

If I fail, I‘ll (have to) go with series 8 LG B/C 55“, and at 1.299 EUR new incl. shipment on Amazon I won‘t feel it is anything but a fantastic deal. With, NB, Beovision 11s 55s currently offered at 3.500+ EUR and 5+ years old. Respectfully to their owners, happy selling.

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Jeff replied on Wed, Mar 6 2019 9:31 PM

AnalogPlanet:

I would happily buy new (if I can afford and I believe it makes sense to me technologically).

 

I'd second that, only add that with B&O it's not only technologically it needs to make sense, but design wise. The reason I've been willing to pay a premium for B&O gear is that their designs not only integrated well with each other but were stunning pieces of modern design. While style is personal taste, not an objective measure like performance, to me the current crop of B&O products, with the exception of the A9, do not offer the kind of stunning style of the past and therefore don't tempt me to pay what it would cost to buy new, or not at all for the modern products.

While I've heard the BL4000 and BL17, and I freely admit the BL17 sounds better, to me the BL4000 looks much, much better, the BL17's looks leave me cold.

 

Jeff

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AnalogPlanet
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Jeff:
I'd second that, only add that with B&O it's not only technologically it needs to make sense, but design wise. The reason I've been willing to pay a premium for B&O gear is that their designs not only integrated well with each other but were stunning pieces of modern design.

True, I took it as something that is - and specifically for B&O - the default state of things.

Technologically I just need that it isn't inapropriately average at the moment of launch (example: LCD panel in Horizon) because then the price becomes insulting. And design-wise, B&O products are always made of better materials and look exponentially nicer and classier than any competition.

I have BL17s at home on floor stands and they look sculptural and nice (to me at least LOL)... but I have to agree that BL4000s are beautiful too. In any case, as I said, even the most not-so-great-looking B&O product is leaving good impression in person as materials and finish quality are really good. And that is why I dream so much about the Beovision. :)

 

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Jeff replied on Thu, Mar 7 2019 3:01 PM

Well, as said design is a matter of personal taste, for which there are no absolutes. And certainly the BL17s look far better than the traditional monkey coffins most speakers are. But you make a very good point about quality of materials and fit and finish, something that B&O still does well at.

The killer is when the price is eye bleedingly high, and the tech is not up to speed, or has problems, that is for me, as you, a very very hard sell. One thing that has consistently amazed me about B&O is the number of problems they repeatedly have with wifi in their products, which is uncalled for. It's a mature technology. My Playmaker was only one band, and had wifi problems, some of which I solved but some which got much worse over time. I've had an Auralic Aries Mini streamer for a year now, multi-band, it's been rebooted exactly never, and it always works perfectly. I stream to it and it responds almost instantly, never drops out, never loses connection, never needs rebooting, whereas if you didn't use the Playmaker daily, say went a week or so without using it, it would invariably drop the network and need reset. And the Auralic was about the same price, and also includes a spot for a hard drive to store music on.

 

Jeff

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Stan
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Stan replied on Thu, Mar 7 2019 3:35 PM

At least with the Playmaker, you got a "classic" B&O design Big SmileStick out tongueCrying

Assuming smoke detectors are your ideal...

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Thu, Mar 7 2019 3:44 PM

Stan:

At least with the Playmaker, you got a "classic" B&O design Big SmileStick out tongueCrying

Assuming smoke detectors are your ideal...

Big SmileSurpriseBig Smile

Now that's funny! Good thing I had a cabinet to keep it in!

Jeff

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Hopefully a "classic" B&O designed cabinet 😉

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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moxxey replied on Fri, Mar 8 2019 10:09 AM

Millemissen:

Hopefully a "classic" B&O designed cabinet 😉

MM

I hope it's better than the rubberized version I have for my BeoSystem 3. That rubber top layer might look (and feel) good, but boy does it mark permanently, really easily.

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moxxey:

I hope it's better than the rubberized version I have for my BeoSystem 3. That rubber top layer might look (and feel) good, but boy does it mark permanently, really easily.

:-) they don’t it soft touch for a reason

They should call it no touch
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Jeff replied on Sat, Mar 9 2019 2:23 AM

Millemissen:

Hopefully a "classic" B&O designed cabinet 😉

MM

Well, does Swedish count? A highly modified IKEA I hacked. Couldn’t find a cabinet that met my needs so modded one up, cable channels, thermostatic fans, etc. 

Jeff

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OldJack
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OldJack replied on Sat, Mar 9 2019 11:19 AM

Aussie Michael:
moxxey:

 

I hope it's better than the rubberized version I have for my BeoSystem 3. That rubber top layer might look (and feel) good, but boy does it mark permanently, really easily.

 

 

:-) they don’t it soft touch for a reason

 

 

They should call it no touch

 

Don't know what you put on it,mine is 15+ years old,no any marks on rubberized top surface.

 

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OldJack
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OldJack replied on Sat, Mar 9 2019 11:46 AM

Bying used audio components,yes.Used tv,no way.

 

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OldJack replied on Sat, Mar 9 2019 11:50 AM

9 LEE:

For the sake of argument, I would class Official Dealer shop floor ex-demo products as 'new' because they should not be older than 6 months old and will come with a fresh manufacturers warranty as if you were the first owner.

'Second Life' from an Official Dealer, a reseller, or eBay all count as 'used'.

Lee

Bying used audio,yes.Bying used tv,no.

 

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Mar 9 2019 3:13 PM

I'd be more leery of buying a used TV, I would definitely want to know how many hours were on the panel and want a significant discount.

Jeff

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chartz replied on Sat, Mar 9 2019 4:09 PM

Buying new is just not possible for me. Way out of my league as a civil servant.

I always buy used and not functioning albeit with mint or as-new cosmetics.

Jacques

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Jeff replied on Sat, Mar 9 2019 4:23 PM

chartz:

Buying new is just not possible for me. Way out of my league as a civil servant.

I always buy used and not functioning albeit with mint or as-new cosmetics.

That's what is so frustrating about used B&O on eBay, at least in the US, the cosmetics are most often bad. It's a lot easier to repair the internals than the cosmetics, and cosmetics are a large part of what makes B&O special.

Jeff

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chartz
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chartz replied on Sat, Mar 9 2019 9:28 PM

Like you Jeff, the Beovirus is dormant. I haven’t bought anything B&O for three years, but using it everyday nevertheless.

Not sure I’m cured though.

Jacques

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Jeff replied on Sat, Mar 9 2019 10:14 PM

chartz:

Like you Jeff, the Beovirus is dormant. I haven’t bought anything B&O for three years, but using it everyday nevertheless.

Not sure I’m cured though.

Same here my friend, sadly. I keep hoping for another "must have" product like my BS9000 but, well, hope springs eternal I guess.

Jeff

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vikinger
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vikinger replied on Sun, Mar 10 2019 9:15 AM

9 LEE:

For the sake of argument, I would class Official Dealer shop floor ex-demo products as 'new' because they should not be older than 6 months old and will come with a fresh manufacturers warranty as if you were the first owner.

'Second Life' from an Official Dealer, a reseller, or eBay all count as 'used'.

Lee

I think that the 6 months idea comes from car demonstration, where dealers often use a new car for personal and/ or demonstration use for a short period, and also have to watch out for the new or updated model, sometimes an annual event.

On the other hand, if say the BL5 didn't change in 10 years, why would a B&O dealer change his display/ demonstration set regularly, if at all, if it was in good cosmetic condition? Couldn't a 10 year old pair eventually be legitimately sold as a dealer ex-demonstration model? 

Graham

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vikinger replied on Sun, Mar 10 2019 10:56 AM

In fact B&O Guildford are currently selling BL3's on eBay as showroom ex-display............. from 2005! 14 years old!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BeoLab-3-loudspeaker-pair-in-black-from-Authorised-B-O-showroom/223350635926?hash=item3400bc3d96:g:tHAAAOSwUMBcUE~i

AnalogPlanet
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I think it is as well about the perception certain naming it is supposed to create with prospective buyer.

For me „ex-Demo“ is something that has been used for a short period of time (say, one year), was lovingly taken care of by B&O experts, will be packed in full and complete and to me as a buyer would be the closest possible thing to buy a new product - possibly/likely coming with some remaining warranty. Hence, discount expectation is not huge as I factor in the peace of mind I get with such purchase.

All else is „used“ in my mind. A bit of a risk, but at the discount high enough that it makes sense taking it.

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sun, Mar 10 2019 4:25 PM

AnalogPlanet:

I think it is as well about the perception certain naming it is supposed to create with prospective buyer.

For me „ex-Demo“ is something that has been used for a short period of time (say, one year), was lovingly taken care of by B&O experts, will be packed in full and complete and to me as a buyer would be the closest possible thing to buy a new product - possibly/likely coming with some remaining warranty. Hence, discount expectation is not huge as I factor in the peace of mind I get with such purchase.

All else is „used“ in my mind. A bit of a risk, but at the discount high enough that it makes sense taking it.

That's a good way of looking at it. If the discount is high it's worth taking a larger risk, but I also have to note that the more complex the product is, the less comfortable I'd feel without a warranty. For example, I think I'd be perfectly fine buying a pair of BL9s with no warranty, but a Moment? No way. Same for the BL9 vs. the BL5. I truly love the BL5, but I've seen enough people complaining about problems with them here to make me leery of purchasing a pair used, especially as they are no longer made and I don't trust the availability of spare parts.

Anything Play at a discount, sounds good though. I payed full price for my Beolit 15, mainly because I wanted to support the local dealer, and the discounts online for that then were not enough to counteract me wanting to buy it from him. If it'd been 30% less or so, maybe I'd have had a different decision.

Jeff

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pepps replied on Fri, Mar 15 2019 10:24 PM
I buy used, always. I prefer the look, siund and theatre of the 80s and 90s music systems to anything offered up now.

The way things slid open and closed still captivates me.

B&O has always meant slow, smooth moving panels to me, I love it!

(And I play almost all my music from a tangible medium, so my tape decks, record players and cd players are all in use.)
9 LEE
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9 LEE replied on Sat, Mar 16 2019 10:21 AM

So, what we have as results are broadly in line with what I expected from an enthusiasts forum. Not much has changed since I last asked the question apart from less people buying new.

You could read many things into this, but what worries me is that we are a bunch of 'hard core fans' who should be buying new but are, on the whole, buying used. This doesn't support dealers who rely on selling new products, so what can we take from this?  Well, it would appear B&O Dealers have to lean on their customers who are not hard core enough to go onto the internet and talk about B&O, but simply target those who buy it as a matter of course.

Are those people around in enough numbers now?  That's the question..

Lee

Barry Santini
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Honestly, if the products, sale interactions and after support warranted paying the new premium here in the states, I gladly would buy new.

Sadly, they don’t.

All addressable and fixable. But the culture has to change.

B
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Jeff replied on Sat, Mar 16 2019 1:56 PM

pepps:
I buy used, always. I prefer the look, siund and theatre of the 80s and 90s music systems to anything offered up now.

 

The way things slid open and closed still captivates me.

 

B&O has always meant slow, smooth moving panels to me, I love it!

 

(And I play almost all my music from a tangible medium, so my tape decks, record players and cd players are all in use.)

That points out there are two kinds off used buyers. Those who like the new stuff and want it used at lower prices, used, demo, etc. And those who don't like the new stuff enough to buy it used even and only want older used gear of previous products.

 

Jeff

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Esax
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Esax replied on Sat, Mar 16 2019 4:44 PM
I like new stuff cheap. And demo cheaper. Bought the beolab 17 whit wall, table and floor stands. Plus extra frets. Ex demo whit 3 year warrenty for 40% of listing price.

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Stefan E replied on Sat, Mar 30 2019 3:35 PM

I buy used B&O products except for some accessories some times, since I'm working in the environmental circular business its more right to buy already produced products than buying new ones ;)

I prefer the more classic iconic products, sort of technical art to have in your house... 

//S 

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My sort of introduction was getting a bunch of used B&O and the experience from there. Still devoted 100% for audio and video and so sure I would if the need and the budget is there to buy new.

Still I could see what the Beosound 9000 mkiii I had briefly was the target market for and technology for audio enjoyment in 2019 has moved on as well so some dealers say a full Beosystem 6500 is not the gold it used to be.

Being the owner of complete Beosystem 6000 and 6500 still working I don't see the change there but maybe in Beovision but I am not much of a tv guy 

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