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Official Dealers and selling on eBay...

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9 LEE
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9 LEE Posted: Mon, Mar 4 2019 12:10 PM

So, when Bang & Olufsen's Official Dealer Network is struggling like mad and wants to reach as many customers as possible to make sales which could keep their business afloat - B&O slam the door in their faces.

Surely it's time B&O turned to their dealers and said "guys, we know we're not supporting you with enough brilliant new products. Ninety six new colours of the same old product won't pay your bills, so just get out there and use every sales avenue you can to get B&O in people's homes..."

But no.

I sent this screenshot to someone this morning. His reply was simply :

"The longest self-destruct in corporate history"

I'd be interested to hear alternative views, but my initial reaction is that B&O think it's fine to dump the whole play range on eBay themselves, but oh... not the main brand.  Okay, so when they rebadge the Play brand as simply 'BANG & OLUFSEN' will they then stop selling on eBay?  Of course they won't...

Yet another kick in the teeth for the Dealer Network, or a brilliant piece of brand protection? You decide.


Chris Townsend
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I've just bought a car from a very traditional dealer, who ONLY advertises on Ebay.

B&O retails TVs and speakers, not the Turin shroud or cancer curing drugs for goodness sake. Adapt or die basically.

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Beosince98
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In my eyes many dealers in Germany just don't offer the customer service you expect from a brand this expensive, hence I buy mostly used from ebay. I used to buy new/used from the store, but there is just no reason to do so anymore from most sellers. I am lucky to have a dealer that offers me good prices and a good service. I find it astonishing how little technical know-how most salesman have! Most B&O products are sold, in my eyes, by the "one more thing". For example the disks staying in perfect position on the Beosound 9000, moveable stands for televisions, the lights turning on with the Beolab 18s. No one buys B&O because they are the best or they offer great value, but because they offer something special (the "magic" aspect) which you simply can not get elsewhere, and I am willing to pay a premium for that! But if I walk into any store in Germany, no salesperson can tell me the technical specialities that the Beolab 50s or 90s have, so why would I buy them? If I don't see the magic, I am not willing to pay that amount for speakers. B&O should produce products that have more of that magic that I love, and dealers should just know their products and their capabilities and the brand will be great again!

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 2:03 PM

No surprise Lee, and in the modern world it's short sighted and very damaging to the very people they rely on to push their products. My ex dealer friends had similar complaints when Play first launched.  Margins were too tight on them to discount, plus B&O didn't want them to. And B&O forced them to buy a multi-thousand dollar display for the Play brand, and then B&O not only sold Play online but expected the dealers to handle warranty claims and returns! Hi, we're from Corporate, bend over an grab your ankles.

A large part of B&O's problems stem not only from cluelessness but a completely unwarranted arrogance that their **** don't stink.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

altist
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altist replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 2:24 PM
That’s my local dealer and they have had to diversify massively.....brand wise. B&O really seem to be losing the plot from the top down in marketing terms. I rarely,if ever,buy new myself...the cost versus reliability and service is too heavily loaded in the wrong direction. Im

Lucky my dealer has a fab service guy who has done great work for me...hope he never retires!!
matador43
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Beosince98:
In my eyes many dealers in Germany just don't offer the customer service you expect from a brand this expensive, hence I buy mostly used from ebay. I used to buy new/used from the store, but there is just no reason to do so anymore from most sellers.

I totally agree with that here in France too!

Of course, I'm not (and most likely will never be) a client for a brand new Eclipse or BL50 or BL90. But I can be attracted by more affordable products (Horizon, BS1, BL10, A9). But Here around Paris, dealer not only have no or poor knowledge of the brand and historical products but also very rude commercial methods or near none of them. I was gifted a beoplay headphone pouch which I was never going to use. Not even opened it. It was a long and hard path to have it refund because the store stated that they technically can't even do it! After month of discussion, the original buyer finally got a refund.

From now on I will be buying B&O stuff from wholesales stores which even if they dont know more about the product offer refund in case the product dont suit my needs, and are sometimes offering great discounts, the main brand will never be close to (I paid 169€ for a H4 when the same was labelled 299€ on B&O store. Or of course, second hand.

I understand this is unfair for retailers, but in my experience Parisian B&O retail is not good. Price are uneven on spare parts, service and accessories (beo4 battery cover range from 5€ to 25€), knowledge about products is poor ("I can tell you sir there's absolutely no eeprom in the BS3000, the 3200 has but not the 3000…) and they all behave like if we were still in the 80's when the brand was standing strong and people just had dealers and brochure to have get acquainted with the products. 

Also, and this may be more an answer to the OP topic, the brand act with the same rules than luxury brands or say Apple but with a very smaller footprint and awareness.

Whats gonna remain from B&O when "our generation" will leave? Who gonna buy thoses overpriced "disposable" items?

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 4:19 PM

9 LEE:

So, when Bang & Olufsen's Official Dealer Network is struggling like mad and wants to reach as many customers as possible to make sales which could keep their business afloat - B&O slam the door in their faces

B&O is a strange beast. They are still acting as if they hold ALL the cards and have a bag full of potential new dealers keen to take over your local area if you don't meet their store requirements.

As you see from places such as Bath a) there isn't a list of potential new dealers and b) when the previous Bath store went bust and the new owner took over, they went bust a couple of years later, too. In a city such as Bath, which has oodles of cash and your typical traditional B&O customer! If you can't make it work here, where can you make it work?

poodleboy
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Perhaps the US company Tesla are copying B&O, except with the opposite footprint? 

"Changes to their retail model have been made as well, all global sales will now take place online. Tesla factory stores outside the United States will close. Factory owned showrooms in the United States will stay open but will revert to galleries." 


Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 4:48 PM

poodleboy:

Perhaps the US company Tesla are copying B&O, except with the opposite footprint? 

"Changes to their retail model have been made as well, all global sales will now take place online. Tesla factory stores outside the United States will close. Factory owned showrooms in the United States will stay open but will revert to galleries." 


I wonder which one will flatline first, B&O or Tesla. As for selling out of "galleries" Tesla wanted to go with an internet showroom only model but in most US states, due to rich auto dealership owners and their political influence, it's illegal to do that, sell via internet without going through a local dealer. Crony Capitalism at work.

Jeff

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StUrrock
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No worries as  B&O website claims that the store performance for new retailers will be as follows (a quote taken from the retail parner section of Bang-Olufsen.com);

 

"Bang & Olufsen Brand Stores

Ideal for major cities and key retail destinations, the Bang & Olufsen Brand stores offer the full product portfolio. And with our new Sensory store concept, customers can immerse themselves in the full brand experience.

Initial investment: €225,000 to €375,000
Expected return: 3-5 years"

 

I take it, this would be an average figure, so the top showrooms must be making shedloads of cash!!

Wink

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 6:22 PM

Usually when people are that delusional they wind up in institutions so they can't hurt themselves or others. Just sayin...

Jeff

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 6:58 PM
Jeff:

I wonder which one will flatline first, B&O or Tesla. As for selling out of "galleries" Tesla wanted to go with an internet showroom only model but in most US states, due to rich auto dealership owners and their political influence, it's illegal to do that, sell via internet without going through a local dealer. Crony Capitalism at work.

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

Tesla recently announced they are moving towards internet only sales in the US. Polestar has made a similar announcement.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/tesla-shifts-sales-to-online-only.html

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Razlaw:
Jeff:

 

I wonder which one will flatline first, B&O or Tesla. As for selling out of "galleries" Tesla wanted to go with an internet showroom only model but in most US states, due to rich auto dealership owners and their political influence, it's illegal to do that, sell via internet without going through a local dealer. Crony Capitalism at work.

 

Jeff

 

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

 

 

Tesla recently announced they are moving towards internet only sales in the US. Polestar has made a similar announcement.

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/tesla-shifts-sales-to-online-only.html

 

 

The difference is that the roads are a “gallery” for Tesla in a way that B&O products cannot be once sold....

Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1

Rob - Danish AV
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Tesla slashed their prices by 33% on their top of the range Ludricus cars.

You see them on the road all the time. Best form of advertising is people using the product!

 

How often do you see a B&O product in the wild? maybe a set of H9's at the airport every now and then!

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Razlaw replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 9:30 PM
I was in no way expressing an opinion one way or the other about Tesla or anyone else using the internet as a main means of sale. Was merely pointing out that the statement that internet car sales are illegal in the US as posted here, seems to be somewhat inaccurate, given recent moves by Tesla and Polestar.
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, Mar 4 2019 10:45 PM

Why You Can't Buy A New Car Online

Americans can buy virtually anything over the Internet these days—sex, booze, houses—everything, that is, but a new car. If you want to buy a new Ford Fusion, you have to go down to your local dealership and haggle with the car salesmen, an unpleasant and daunting task. The process usually subjects consumers to hours in the dealership hotbox and can add hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to the price of the car. Wouldn’t it be nice if you could cut out the middleman and just order your Prius straight from Toyota?

But you can’t. And there’s one reason why: the car-dealer lobby, which has worked hard to ensure that this will never happen. Since the late 1990s, car dealers have used their considerable political clout to pass or better enforce state franchise laws that in many cases make it a criminal offense for an auto manufacturer to sell a new car to anyone but a state-licensed car dealer. The laws governing who can sell new cars are among the most anti-competitive of any domestic industry. By creating local monopolies for dealerships and prohibiting online sales for new cars, they constitute a major restraint on interstate commerce; in 2001, the Consumer Federation of America estimated [pdf] that the laws added at least $1,500 to the price of every new car.

Jeff

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 12:06 AM
You could not find anything more recent than an article that is over 10 years old? I guess Tesla and Polestar among others all missed that 10 year old article when they made their decisions to sell cars online.
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 1:18 AM

See any article saying it”s changed? But keep spinning, it’s good exercise. 

Obtuse as always. 

Jeff

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 1:20 AM

Jeff:

See any article saying it”s changed? But keep spinning, it’s good exercise. 

Obtuse as always. But yeah, believe Musk, that’s a winning proposition.

 

Jeff

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 2:21 AM
If you would spend one minute researching facts online you would find countless articles about both Polestar and Tesla going to only online purchases, if you would look at Tesla’s web page you would learn how to purchase a car online, if you would venture in to Youtube you would find countless videos of new Teslas being delivered directly to customers at their homes. Facts are stubborn things. And apparently facts are totally irrelevant to you.
Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 2:27 AM
78% of 2018 Tesla Model 3s were purchased online.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/03/78-of-teslas-2018-model-3-sales-were-online-musk-email-sheds-light-on-new-sales-strategy/
Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 3:06 AM
As you asked for a more recent article, here is one that is only three years old. Reading it might give you some insight as to how cars can be sold online. Remember, 50 states means 50 different sets of laws.
Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 3:06 AM
http://fortune.com/2016/01/19/why-tesla-sells-directly/
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 2:47 PM

Cranky aren't you? And your article doesn't even say what you think it does, from the very first sentence:

Tesla’s strategy of selling its own cars through its own Tesla-branded stores doesn’t sound all that controversial.

And  Polestar? It's not even on the market yet, and gee, let's see, it's made by Volvo, wonder who they will find to meet the requirement in most states to sell it through a dealer if someone "buys" it online? Gee, wonder where Volvo could find a dealer?

Your reading comprehension skills seem to be pretty lacking. You'd be better off not obsessing over me, all it does is give you more opportunities to show when you're wrong and unwilling to admit it.

And as we said to Felicia, bye!

 

Jeff

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9 LEE
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9 LEE replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 2:56 PM

So... swerving away from Tesla and Polestar....

Do we think 'online only' selling of Bang & Olufsen products is the way forward?  B&O clearly don't, otherwise they'd let their dealers sell on eBay as just one of the selling platforms available.

I have to admit I'm pretty confused at the moment. Their website is a mess and their new internal ROS system is a mess, so it's kinda pointing to the fact that computers, the internet, and Bang & Olufsen aren't the best bedfellows at present?

Lee

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Puncher replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 3:09 PM

They should definitely be selling on the internet but through their own site, - I can understand that allowing new sales through eBay and the like  doesn't really befit the brand image as it can create a bit of an 'Arthur Daley' vibe.

Ban boring signatures!

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 3:18 PM

Puncher:

They should definitely be selling on the internet but through their own site, - I can understand that allowing new sales through eBay and the like  doesn't really befit the brand image as it can create a bit of an 'Arthur Daley' vibe.

Personally, nothing lately from B&O outside of a small BT speaker has demonstrated the reliability or ease of use that would tempt me to spend major bucks buying it online or mail order or what without a dealer nearby to take care of it and me. Kind of like ordering up a Yugo without anyone to service or adjust it, not bright. Or a Jag back in the day.

But, while I can understand that they might think the brand image doesn't go with eBay, c'mon guys, help a brother (aka dealers) out. B&O seems actively hostile to their dealer network.

Jeff

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moxxey
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moxxey replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 3:51 PM

9 LEE:

I have to admit I'm pretty confused at the moment. Their website is a mess 

I'm perplexed why they merged BeoPlay and B&O - it's made the website rather confusing/messy. The old BeoPlay website was well designed and easy to navigate.

EDIT: hold on, they've changed the B&O website, again! I wonder how much budget/finance B&O put into their website design. Must be a well-budged department.

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Razlaw replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 5:50 PM
Jeff:

Cranky aren't you? And your article doesn't even say what you think it does, from the very first sentence:

Tesla’s strategy of selling its own cars through its own Tesla-branded stores doesn’t sound all that controversial.

And Polestar? It's not even on the market yet, and gee, let's see, it's made by Volvo, wonder who they will find to meet the requirement in most states to sell it through a dealer if someone "buys" it online? Gee, wonder where Volvo could find a dealer?

Your reading comprehension skills seem to be pretty lacking. You'd be better off not obsessing over me, all it does is give you more opportunities to show when you're wrong and unwilling to admit it.

And as we said to Felicia, bye!

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

LOL. You post “it’s illegal to do that, sell via internet without going to a local dealer.” I posted an article indicating internet sales are occurring. You respond with a 10 year old out of date article. Upon me pointing out the age of your article, you respond with a personal insult by calling me obtuse. Rather than recognizing a different opinion, you resort to a personal insult. You also ask if I have any articles to show that things have changed since your 10 year old article was written. I again point out that facts relating to internet sale of new cars are readily available online, an article indicating 78% of Tesla Model 3s were sold online, and an article mentioning the restriction you believe to be pervasive every where and I point out that with 50 states there are 50 different sets of laws.

Your response? Again a personal insult calling me cranky. A claim that one of the articles does not say what I say it does, without indicating which article or what the article says, in your opinion. You comment about Tesla strategy not being controversial. At no point did I say it was controversial.

As for Polestar, once again your response is factually inaccurate. Polestar is now a separate entity, not a subsidiary of Volvo. And the cars are available for order, online, currentIy. I could give you links to numerous articles on that topic but as you clearly do not read the articles that would be a waste of time.

As for you accusation I obsess over you, you are the one who began the discussion with a personal insult, and personal attacks. In fact, then as usual you have to include another personal insult directed at my reading abilities.

All I have done is provide facts. I will end my participation in this nonsensical discussion as facts being refuted only personal insults from you is a total waste of time.

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 5:55 PM

Razzy, bless your little heart, the only thing your obsession proves to me is that I definitely need to find a way to attract a better class of enemy.

Jeff

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rfc1
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rfc1 replied on Tue, Mar 5 2019 8:41 PM

altist:
That’s my local dealer and they have had to diversify massively.....brand wise. B&O really seem to be losing the plot from the top down in marketing terms. I rarely,if ever,buy new myself...the cost versus reliability and service is too heavily loaded in the wrong direction. Im

 

Lucky my dealer has a fab service guy who has done great work for me...hope he never retires!!

 

You based around Glasgow mate?  Smile

 

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AnalogPlanet
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Does not look to me as if much has happened (changed). Entry products still availabe for an online purchase, „real“ loudspeakers and TVs still not. Both on eBay and B&O website. 

I mean, there were already some resellers with solid offer in their webstores with complete portfolio - but that I merely see as an individual enterpreneurial effort rather than a „policy“. 

And btw, is this forum moderated at all or we are just going to call each other random names and patronize? Not cool.

altist
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altist replied on Wed, Mar 6 2019 8:42 PM
Stirling and Perth had dealers long ago but they closed around 10 years ago. So unless you live near Aberdeen the Glashow shop is your only dealer and they have added so many new brands presumably to keep business turning over....for a good while yet one hopes,even though I haven’t bought new in a long while as nothing new really appeals and I have what I need in my home.
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kallasr replied on Wed, Mar 6 2019 9:08 PM
Jeff:

Razzy, bless your little heart, the only thing your obsession proves to me is that I definitely need to find a way to attract a better class of enemy.

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

I cannot believe this kind of tone on this forum.

We do not need this here.

Ralf

PS: moderating team, please ban this guy. Calling forum members enemy is sick and immature,

Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-6 (Center), Beolab 9 (Fronts), Beolab 8000 (Rears), no Subwoofer. Screen: Panasonic TX-P65STW60
Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab Penta 2 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears) and Beolab 2. Projector: Sony VPL-HW55
Home Office: Beovision 10-40 on STB Bracket wall mount masterlinked to Beosound 9000 MK3 on horizontal wall bracket driving Beolab 5000 Speakers
Bedroom: Loewe TV with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all white, wall-mounted)
In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s). 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Wed, Mar 6 2019 9:24 PM

Well, I've never come in at the end of a thread, acted indignant, and called for anyone to be banned so there's that at least. Wink

Jeff

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Wed, Mar 6 2019 10:51 PM
kallasr:

I cannot believe this kind of tone on this forum.

We do not need this here.

Ralf

PS: moderating team, please ban this guy. Calling forum members enemy is sick and immature,

Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-6 (Center), Beolab 8000 (Fronts and Rears) and Beolab 2. Screen: Panasonic TX-P65STW60 Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab Penta 2 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears) and Beolab 2. Projector: Sony VPL-HW55 Home Office: Beovision 10-40 on STB Bracket wall mount masterlinked to Beosound 9000 MK3 on horizontal wall bracket driving Beolab 5000 Speakers Bedroom: Loewe TV with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all White) In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).

Thank you for your post. Sadly Jeff has a long history of making personal attacks and insults directed at me. Over the last several months, in addition to the language you mention and the modification of my name to Razzy in an obvious attempt to mock and degrade, Jeff has directed the following statements at me: He has called me "Captain Pedantic", he has called me self absorbed, indignant, has referred to me as having a hissy fit, called me worthless, tedious, told me to grow a sack of self confidence, called me a whiner, referred to our discussion as he said SHE said, accused me of having an imprecise conversational style, has accused me of histrionics, and has described me as "lacking in the level of curiosity.....”. Given this past history I am sure nothing will change in the future.
The Beonic Man
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I don't think moderation is needed on this occasion.

Beoworld is a great forum with some fantastic valued members, all who contribute positively and constructively the majority of the time. Razlaw and Jeff are such valued members and it would be a great shame in my opinion to 'moderate' them, or anyone else come to that.

We are all human and it can often be challenging to accept difference, let alone celebrate it. We have all had our disagreements in here, myself included when I was also rude to Jeff and his culture once, which I apologised for swiftly afterwards. Conversations are fuelled with passion and sometimes that passion gets lost in anger and attacking words, but I feel sure that this is never intentional from the outset from any of us.

Can we agree to draw a line under the past, noting and acknowledging the hurtful words that have been said, but bringing us all back to the main reason we joined; to discuss, share and debate our love (or dismay) at the Bang & Olufsen company and brand? This is a truly resourceful site with some great people and I personally look forward to logging in and keeping up with the threads most evenings.

Simon.

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Thu, Mar 7 2019 12:05 AM

Well said Simon.

Jeff

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Puncher
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Puncher replied on Thu, Mar 7 2019 6:37 AM

Sticks and Stones etc.  

Ban boring signatures!

Keith Saunders
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The Beonic Man:
I don't think moderation is needed on this occasion.

I can confirm that I did NOT moderate any posts in this thread, But I would ask members to communicate in a manner you would expect to receive postings meaning with politeness.

Regards Keith....

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