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A pleasant pondering...

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John
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John posted on Sat, Feb 23 2019 1:33 AM

As my V1-40 TV and Beolab 9 speakers have just passed their 6th anniversary, I find myself reflecting on what an outstanding purchase they have been and how much joy and pleasure they have given me.

From having saved me from the angst and obsessions of the audiophile world, to delivering the best sound and picture I've ever experienced in my home, to the absolute best overall ownership experience of any audio kit I've ever owned in more than a few decades, they are easily the best AV purchase I've ever made.

As I write, I find myself presented with the possible purchase of either an 55" Beovision Avant with motorised stand, OR an 55" Beovision 14, also with motorised floor stand - both boxed and new for A$11k.

So no difference in price - having gained an opinion on model differences from one friend, I thought I'd open it up to the membership and ask of those who own them, if doing it again, which of the two would you buy again/prefer - the Avant or the 14?

The other question is of course quite subjective - the only issue I have with the V1-40 is that I sometimes miss having a bigger screen for an more immersive Bluray movie viewing experience - Bluray movies and Youtube docs, with some Netflix thrown in is my main video use for it.  In all other respects I am entirely happy and still delighted with the TV

My room is 5 x 4 metres, and I view across the room at a distance of 3.0 metres.

It strikes me that A$11k is a lot of money to part with in one hit to get that slightly bigger picture, with no doubt slightly better picture and sound to accompany it, over the V1-40, and consequently I am not sure that it is worth it as regards what one pays and what one gets for the money in return.

If I didn't have a B&O TV, then yes, but to spend $11k on an upgrade..., albeit it is a 4k TV, but no Dolby Vision or HD 10+ support - for which one has to jump to an 55" Eclipse at A$17k

So, relatively speaking it's a bargain price - albeit I don't know what the original price was for these TV's here before being discontinued - but I am interested in hearing other B&O afiiciandos thoughts as to whether they would prefer a Beovision 14 or the Avant, and whether the jump in performance over an V!-40 would be likely worth the price of admission.

All thoughts, comments and ideas appreciated.

Kind regards and with many thanks in advance

John.. :-)

 

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Millemissen
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Why not hold your breath a while?

To see, what - if something - is coming from B&O.

Your possible savings could be used for an Eclipse 55, if nothing comes or nothing that you would appreciate comes.

 

I am sure the Horizon, BV14, Avant MK2/NG have matured with the latest updates, but still they are ‘in-between-tv’s’ - and for an Android based tv too old.

IMO a 1st gen Avant 55 (I enjoy mine) or the BV11-55 wiuld be better - you know that platform from your V1.

Though cheaper than e.g. the next generation they might be too old for you to buy now.

 

Glad that you are happy with the V1 - it’s an underrated tv from B&O....they should have made a 46” version of it back then.

Your 40” isn’t that small for your room.....not untill you have had a bigger one in there 😉

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Feb 23 2019 9:23 AM

I'm presuming HDR is not that important to you?

If this is indeed the case, then....

Which version of the Avant are you looking at? MK 1 (non Android) or MK 2 Android?

For what its worth I bought the BV14 when it came out, but returned it after 6 months,

I took an Avant MK 1 in its place, which I am much much happier with.

Part of the reason was that I hated the Android OS on the 14 - it was hideously buggy and laggy (the bugginess may well be better now, the lagginess I don't think can be improved to what I thought was acceptable).

But the main reason was that the panel in the Android BV's was not good - while it was backlit (rather than edge lit), it was really not very good at all with movies, especially dark scenes. 

The Avant MK1 that I got in its place had a better panel tech - even though edge lit, it was much more watchable for content where the newer gen panels.

In addition, the Avant MK 1 speakers are better than the 14 - don't know about the Avant MK 2. The 14 speakers were very good, the Avant Mk 1 speakers are excellent.

And the Avant Mk 1 had the old / normal / pre-Android software platform, which just works.

So while the 14 has a beautiful design, in the end PQ and overall functionality do matter more.

Anyway, let me know if you have any other questions.

** FYI, the above is my second room (bedroom) TV....personally I would never use an LCD / LED tv for my main room. 

John
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John replied on Sat, Feb 23 2019 10:38 PM

HDR is important, mainly because as I understand it, with 4k and the increased colour gamut used, Dolby Vision and HDR 10 + seem to be 'default' specifications as regards getting the very best picture from the new standards - at least from reading - i have not done A/B comparisons of 4k TV's running Dobly Vision/HDR 10+ and those without to see the difference.

Unfortunately I cannot say as to which Avant model - I would assume Mk 2.

Here in Australia, B&O was in the recent past few years handled and distributed by the luxury goods group Kennedy - which has gone bankrupt and owes B&O in Struer a very large amount of money.

As Kennedy was in financial difficulties, and before B&O cut their losses and ties with them, and they officially went bankrupt, Kennedy was unable to pay their freight forwarding company, who promptly held on to the B&O stock in their possession in lieu of payment.

A year later, this stock, having been languishing in a warehouse for a year, has been bought by one of the newly appointed dealers and is going on sale shortly.  There will be a selection of Avant and Beovision models, and also a pair of Lab 5's brand new in a box.

The prices are not firesale at all (A$35k for the Lab 5's) but represent an opportunity to buy some very nice, and brand new, otherwise unavailable B&O products.

However, I do recognise that both Avant and Beovision 14 are a bit lacking in specs when it comes to the latest in 4k - whether that really makes a difference or not to what one sees on screen (UHD Bluray discs) I am unsure as I have not had the opportunity to do an A/B visual comparison - but in that regards the Horizon seems a little bit more up to date albeit it is only a 48" screen, or perhaps I would be better off overall waiting and saving to an Eclipse 55"?

Whichever way one goes, it is a lot of money to spend, and I think to future proof ones investment as much as possible would be the best way to go overall. 

Thank you very much for your input as an owner and re your technical comments as to sound quality, type of panel tech etc.  

The reason I bought my V1-40 initially, was that it's price was comparable to competing TV's from Sony, LG, etc but with nicer picture, vastly better sound, and was the centrepiece of my first B&O system with onboard surround sound processing and active centre channel speaker, where, given the volatility of TV tech, it made more sense to invest more in high quality speakers with more mature tech.  

And it was the right decision at the time looking at how much and how quickly TV tech changes.

OLED is now the tech to have - and there is some discussion I note about micro LED possibly coming to challenge OLED.

If you find LCD/LED tv's lacking for your main room, may i ask what you use? - Projector, OLED perhaps?

Many thanks for your most thoughtful and helpful comments - very much appreciated.

Cheers

John

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Feb 23 2019 11:03 PM

Micro LED is still a few years off, don't believe the more excitable commenters online. 

I'd agree OLED is the way to go right now, and assuming your potential Avant is a MKII, I would avoid both that and the BV14.

My comments above related to the Avant MKI - but like the BV14, the 2nd gen (Android) uses a backlit and not brilliant panel.

That panel, in both, is perfectly fine for sports, regular broadcast HD television - but movies and programmes with dark scenes were difficult to watch on this backlit panel. When I bought the 14, I didn't spend long in the store looking it properly, and its not always easy to test these out well.

But another more learned commenter did explain to me that while backlit panels are good, when they are globally dimmed (as opposed to having full array local dimming), there are real limitations with the image. And they were right.

Both of these, and indeed the Avant MK I, are 4K but not HDR - as most will tell you, the extra resolution vs 1080P is not especially noticeable. It's the HDR - being the other part of the newer Ultra HD specs - that makes a much bigger difference, especially on OLEDs and very high end LCD / LEDs.

So yes, moving from a 40 inch to a 55 will be a bit more impressive because of the size - but its only the Eclipse that will give you the big step in PQ.

The software, being LG's webOS, is modern, snappy and by general consensus the best smart TV OS, even if its. bit bright and garish for some. I'd take that in a heartbeat over Android OS - remember the Android BV's have a version that is now old, and can't be updated for Android Oreo, the latest and allegedly better functioning current software.

And bear in mind too the Eclipse audio is incredibly good, and offers Airplay (2) capability too. 

The alternative I'd consider, if you decide on OLED and don't love the Eclipse design / price, is to get a high end Panasonic OLED, save yourself quiet a bt of cash, and buy a box that allows the Panasonic to use your BL9s. The Panasonic FX952 is bloody good, and has a pretty strong speaker - my sister bought one recently, and despite being a big fan of BV's audio, the Panasonic is pretty darn good. But going away from BV's may or may not suit, depending on your broader needs / setup.

 

Millemissen
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Why not hold your breath a while?

To see, what - if something - is coming from B&O.

Your possible savings could be used for an Eclipse 55, if nothing comes or nothing that you would appreciate comes.

 

I am sure the Horizon, BV14, Avant MK2/NG have matured with the latest updates, but still they are ‘in-between-tv’s’ - and for an Android based tv too old.

IMO a 1st gen Avant 55 (I enjoy mine) or the BV11-55 wiuld be better - you know that platform from your V1.

Though cheaper than e.g. the next generation they might be too old for you to buy now.

 

Glad that you are happy with the V1 - it’s an underrated tv from B&O....they should have made a 46” version of it back then.

Your 40” isn’t that small for your room.....not untill you have had a bigger one in there 😉

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Mikipidia
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yep Iam with Millemissen,

either get a mk1 55'' avant or a bv11-55, both part of the greats in the B&O tv range, or wait.

 

but if you want newer tech and really want hdr, I would too suggest to wait. And I must make extra clear that you should, at all cost, skip the android platform, it's not worth it.

New: Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beovision eclipse, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound 1 Bronze edition, Beoplay M3.

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Old: Beolab 1's, beolab 2, beovision 10-46, overture 2300, beolab 8000's, beolab 4000's, beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

David Coyne
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Hi John

I trust you're well.

I have a mark 1 Avant- and generally I've been very happy with it. It did have some components replaced after a year but nothing significant. The picture is really lovely, the sound great.

What I  will say is that there now appears to be software incompatibility issues with the TV being integrated with a CORE and using multi room.  I had difficulties for months, no reply from Denmark at all, not even an acknowledgement. I think i must be on a serial complainant list and so I don't even get a courtesy reply anymore. Through an independent  technician (contracted to B&O) here a beta software has been added to the Avant and all updates on other products have been switched off. For now everything is working well.

In short, if you want a nice TV, the Avant is great. If you want it to be part of a bigger multi room system I'd almost stay away form Bang and Olufsen- the constant software problems have rendered my system unusable at times. My technician tells me Im not alone and he is travelling all over NSW to try and manage work arounds. Just a couple of products and its all fine... more and its problematic, Presently I have:  Avant and core integrated (after returning my Moment) with beolab 9s, a beocentre 2 and beolab 3s with an essence, a beosound 1, a beoplay 6 and a beogram 7000.

A final word, not sure how many updates the Avant will have from this point? I think the core has just had an update 1.42... that should help resolve the TV issues for now..

Regards

David

 

Beovision 8-40, Beocentre 6-26, Beocentre 2, Beolab 9's, Beogram 7000, Beogram 9500, Beo 5, Beolit 1000, 800, 700, 600, 400, Beocom 6's, Beotalk 1200

 

AnalogPlanet
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I believe I am in a similar situation like John, after moving to a new apartment. Currently improvising with a 1080p projector, and eagerly waiting for new B&O products in TV-related lineup.

As tempted as I am sometimes to simply buy a Loewe TV, I still would really prefer to go B&O route - but the (potentially) indefinite waiting is killing me. :) If anyone in the know would kindly at least drop me a hint in a private message I would be very grateful.

Alternatively: if I speak to a dealer, do you think they might be willing to give me a rough idea at least, without disclosing sensitive details (I know and respect that they can‘t go into particularities...)

Millemissen
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David Coyne:

In short, if you want a nice TV, the Avant is great. If you want it to be part of a bigger multi room system I'd almost stay away form Bang and Olufsen- the constant software problems have rendered my system unusable at times. My technician tells me Im not alone and he is travelling all over NSW to try and manage work arounds. Just a couple of products and its all fine... more and its problematic, Presently I have:  Avant and core integrated (after returning my Moment) with beolab 9s, a beocentre 2 and beolab 3s with an essence, a beosound 1, a beoplay 6 and a beogram 7000.

A final word, not sure how many updates the Avant will have from this point? I think the core has just had an update 1.42... that should help resolve the TV issues for now..

Not questioning your problems.

But generally seen I can’t confirm your experiences - my NL network runs smooth.

I don’t have a Core, but the Essence, however I would not hesitate to buy one, if I needed a new BS.

A change from a V1 (which the op has) to an Avant/2014 would not be significant - if there are no problems there by now.

 

There will be no more updates (hasn’t been for long) for the Avant/2014, V1, BV11’s.

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Millemissen
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@AnalogPlanet

Don’t expect anyone (in knowing) to tell you anything.

All rumours and at some point maybe leaks (on the forum) will have to be confirmed officially.....there simply is too much speculation and wishfull thinking going on.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

AnalogPlanet
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I know what you mean. :) Makes sense, of course. I would just hate giving my money elsewhere if I could have waited for few more months and buy B&O rather than a competitive brand. :/ And with no TV in the house my ability to wait indefinitely is understandably... ...limited. Sniff.

beotex
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beotex replied on Mon, Feb 25 2019 2:22 AM
I’ve got an Avant NG, and while I know there were lots of issues with software at launch, I’ve had no issues since I bought mine a year ago (just after the big software update). It works great in a multi room scenario, and I’ve got it connected to a core. Picture and sound are great. Not sure why everyone still says to avoid it.

I suppose the main reason the android OS doesn’t bother me is I have an AppleTv connected that provides every app I need.
John
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John replied on Fri, Mar 1 2019 9:38 AM

 

 

Millemissen:

Why not hold your breath a while?

To see, what - if something - is coming from B&O.

Your possible savings could be used for an Eclipse 55, if nothing comes or nothing that you would appreciate comes.

 

I am sure the Horizon, BV14, Avant MK2/NG have matured with the latest updates, but still they are ‘in-between-tv’s’ - and for an Android based tv too old.

IMO a 1st gen Avant 55 (I enjoy mine) or the BV11-55 wiuld be better - you know that platform from your V1.

Though cheaper than e.g. the next generation they might be too old for you to buy now.

 

Glad that you are happy with the V1 - it’s an underrated tv from B&O....they should have made a 46” version of it back then.

Your 40” isn’t that small for your room.....not untill you have had a bigger one in there 😉

 

MM

 

May I just thank everyone who contributed to this thread and took the time to write and offer some really helpful rationalisations and constructive information as to the best way forward on this. 

I have essentially decided to wait and see, as I love my V1 in every way other than a desire at times for a bigger, more immersive picture for Bluray movie involvement and immersion on the visual side.

The audio side is truly excellent on the V1, and the styling - which some dislike - but yet which one a Red Spot design award, still looks understated and elegant 6 years on.

At the end of the day, if I spend a considerable amount on a TV, I want more for the dollar than just a bigger screen, slightly better picture quality and slightly better sound as regards a centre channel role in movie mode, over and above the V1-40  - I also want the latest specs for 4K such as HDR and Dolby vision etc such as to get the jump in PQ these latest technologies offer.

Given that TV tech is still relatively volatile compared to loudspeakers, I think to wait and see what happens, and buy the latest B&O TV tech if the Eclipse or Horizon is updated in due course.

It also will allow me in the short term, to look at a pre-owned set of Lab 9's to use as my rear speakers in a surround setup and thus match my front Lab 9's.

This should considerably improve the audio side of things for resolution, transient response/dynamics, and timbral matching in a surround sound movie context.

Additionally, SPL levels in deep bass/LFE should rise, as with 4 Lab 9's, the rear channels will play their own bass and not redirect it to the fronts, and as LFE is mono, it should be shared between all four Lab 9's, hopefully giving a noticeable uplift in LFE/low bass performance for surround sound Bluray movies.

Thanks again everyone for all the most helpful advice - it is such a pleasure to be on this forum and share knowledge and experience with so many kind and thoughtful members.

Kind regards

John

 

 

 

Aussie Michael
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I think you gave it some great consideration John.

You never know what is around the corner.
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