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Bang & Olufsen in 2019... Your predictions?

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Jan 4 2019 11:18 AM

Hasn't the Beosystem come the Core? Which is more or less what is in the Sound Centre? (question, not statement)

I.e. audio processing, not video.

 

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Fri, Jan 4 2019 11:38 AM

Millemissen:
....which I doubt it can.

I ask again - why not?

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OldJack
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OldJack replied on Fri, Jan 4 2019 12:56 PM

Sandyb:

Hasn't the Beosystem come the Core? Which is more or less what is in the Sound Centre? (question, not statement)

I.e. audio processing, not video.

 

Right,audio processing,but guess Core is 2 channels only.Or am I wrong?

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Emil Jensen
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Puncher:

I'm not a Video Engineer and so I would love to know to what extent you can overwrite/overlay a passthrough HDMI video stream in order to provide additional menus to control features etc. 

e.g. could the "curtains" function be achieved by modifying HDMI stream etc.

Depending upon results of above I think there is more mileage in option2 than option 1.

It is possible, as you have it in any surround receiver on the market.

One thing I can say, after owning several of such solution, it sucks.

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Puncher
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Puncher replied on Fri, Jan 4 2019 5:57 PM

Emil Jensen:

Puncher:

I'm not a Video Engineer and so I would love to know to what extent you can overwrite/overlay a passthrough HDMI video stream in order to provide additional menus to control features etc. 

e.g. could the "curtains" function be achieved by modifying HDMI stream etc.

Depending upon results of above I think there is more mileage in option2 than option 1.

It is possible, as you have it in any surround receiver on the market.

One thing I can say, after owning several of such solution, it sucks.

……….were they engineered to be and important part of the interface/experience or just a quick and dirty access to sub menus?

Its strange that folk are willing to dismiss this out of hand but are willing to accept the disjointed interface of the Eclipse!

I think this is a real opportunity to be explored and if it can be done well will be a real winner.

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Jan 4 2019 6:17 PM

The issue is not so much what is possible, but what B&O are likely to do.

For those who regard the Eclipse UI integration as disjointed, surely that's as good as it will get - whether thats a successor to the Eclipse (i.e. another BV), or a separate sound bar / centre.

Surely by now everyone understands that modern TV's are smart, and come with messy (to varying degrees) UI's stuffed with apps. You can't have a well featured smart TV and the old elegance of B&O. 

Loewe's is strong on elegance, but its smart platform is odd, highly euro-centric and dated.  And the software isn't up to webOS usability and stability.  So there are compromises everywhere.

No one makes a dumb TV anymore unfortunately.

So a sound centre (my option 2) will overlay its menu's just like other AV receivers / soundbars. Its not great, but not the end of the world if done sensibly.

 

 

 

Emil Jensen
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Puncher:

Emil Jensen:

Puncher:

I'm not a Video Engineer and so I would love to know to what extent you can overwrite/overlay a passthrough HDMI video stream in order to provide additional menus to control features etc. 

e.g. could the "curtains" function be achieved by modifying HDMI stream etc.

Depending upon results of above I think there is more mileage in option2 than option 1.

It is possible, as you have it in any surround receiver on the market.

One thing I can say, after owning several of such solution, it sucks.

……….were they engineered to be and important part of the interface/experience or just a quick and dirty access to sub menus?

Its strange that folk are willing to dismiss this out of hand but are willing to accept the disjointed interface of the Eclipse!

I think this is a real opportunity to be explored and if it can be done well will be a real winner.

Having used BV7, the Avant and now the Eclipse, Imo the Eclipse have a far better UI than the older models.

And the BEOREMOTE one are far more capable with the new UI

 

Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 20, Beolab 17, Beosound 1 Google assist, Beoplay M3, Beoplay H6

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Fri, Jan 4 2019 6:52 PM

@ sandyb - Exactly!

 

Question - how does the existing remote control the current Panel, is it IR, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi or does the control stop if the HDMI cable from the sound centre is unplugged?

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Jan 4 2019 7:14 PM

Emil Jensen:

Puncher:

Emil Jensen:

Puncher:

I'm not a Video Engineer and so I would love to know to what extent you can overwrite/overlay a passthrough HDMI video stream in order to provide additional menus to control features etc. 

e.g. could the "curtains" function be achieved by modifying HDMI stream etc.

Depending upon results of above I think there is more mileage in option2 than option 1.

It is possible, as you have it in any surround receiver on the market.

One thing I can say, after owning several of such solution, it sucks.

……….were they engineered to be and important part of the interface/experience or just a quick and dirty access to sub menus?

Its strange that folk are willing to dismiss this out of hand but are willing to accept the disjointed interface of the Eclipse!

I think this is a real opportunity to be explored and if it can be done well will be a real winner.

Having used BV7, the Avant and now the Eclipse, Imo the Eclipse have a far better UI than the older models.

And the BEOREMOTE one are far more capable with the new UI

 

Out of interest, how is the BR more capable with the Eclipse UI?

As for the Eclipse UI, there was lots of grumbling when it was released, that the UI felt a bit hybrid like.

Some are Ok with it, some not.

But as I posted earlier, there is no gong backwards now in the age of smart TV's, so I'd be fine with it.

 

 

Emil Jensen
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There is more adjustment possibilities with the Eclipse, and the Beoremote one, But as it have been a long time since I have had hands on with the Avant, I can not say for certain which ones.

The UI for me do not feel as a hybrid, as I mostly use the Apple TV,

And almost all of the adjustments you have to make in the LG menus you can do directly from the remote, picture settings and so on.

And the B&O menus, are better than ever, much simplere and detailed.

 

Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 20, Beolab 17, Beosound 1 Google assist, Beoplay M3, Beoplay H6

Millemissen
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Remember I said, I’d doubt that....and I want to see it working before I believe anything.

My experiences with CEC is, that it is working (sometimes) with basic functions.

Mostly the remote of the tv is used to control the volume of soundbars. And play/pause etc functions from external devices like BR players work generally.

However, it is nothing that I would rely on - mostly people have more remotes laying around....just in case.

And not every brand works well with another brand.

Emil wrote:: ‘It is possible, as you have it in any surround receiver on the market.

One thing I can say, after owning several of such solution, it sucks.

How are your own experiences with CEC?

 

When I think of rhe sophisticated control functions  of the BeoRemote One with the combo of the B&O Sound Center and the LG tv, that is used for the Eclipse, I have severe reservations, that this should work with a tv of your own choice (that even may be replaced every third year or so).

Noone ever took the challenge of connecting a stock LG OLED tv to the Sound Center in order to see what happens....

....maybe then we would have been wiser.

 

MM

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Millemissen
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Puncher:

Millemissen:
....which I doubt it can.

I ask again - why not?

My post above was meant as an answer to this post.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Fri, Jan 4 2019 8:09 PM

Millemissen:

Puncher:

Millemissen:
....which I doubt it can.

I ask again - why not?

My post above was meant as an answer to this post.

MM

Thanks - that's better!

Ban boring signatures!

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Jan 4 2019 8:13 PM

Millemissen:

Remember I said, I’d doubt that....and I want to see it working before I believe anything.

My experiences with CEC is, that it is working (sometimes) with basic functions.

Mostly the remote of the tv is used to control the volume of soundbars. And play/pause etc functions from external devices like BR players work generally.

However, it is nothing that I would rely on - mostly people have more remotes laying around....just in case.

And not every brand works well with another brand.

Emil wrote:: ‘It is possible, as you have it in any surround receiver on the market.

One thing I can say, after owning several of such solution, it sucks.

How are your own experiences with CEC?

 

When I think of rhe sophisticated control functions  of the BeoRemote One with the combo of the B&O Sound Center and the LG tv, that is used for the Eclipse, I have severe reservations, that this should work with a tv of your own choice (that even may be replaced every third year or so).

Noone ever took the challenge of connecting a stock LG OLED tv to the Sound Center in order to see what happens....

....maybe then we would have been wiser.

 

MM

Agree with all of the above - CEC as has been implemented in the past is generally limited by incomplete implementation by hardware brands.

If done properly, it can get close to a BR One's control of perhiperhals - i.e more than just the play / pause / volume, but deeper navigation.

Implementations have been improving though from what I understand - and as such, PUC may be sacrificed (may be).

Anyway, it's not as if the BR One is voice enabled - most new TV's are, as are their remotes, so it's not as if the current BR One covers everything.

Lets see how B&O balance old vs new control paradigms.

bayerische
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jk1002:
Leica can sell 7000$ cameras, Rimowa 1800$ Suitcases can't see why people would not pay 10K for a TV or speaker as well.

 

Leica has some of the most Die-Hard followers in the world. I used to be one. But my interest in photography has seriously declined in the last 10 years, so I can't justify spending that much on a camera anymore. I still have a R8 and a set of lenses though. Leica is not only about photography. It is just as much if not more about "look at my camera". There's a group on FB called "the Leica portrait group". Looking at these people showing off very mediocre portraits (of course there's some really good ones too, but they are far between) with the tag "taken with the M10 and Noctilux 50mm F0.95". Now that's a 15.000 euro camera set used to take a poorly composed and poorly lit picture of some half naked girl (probably payed for). Why? 

Another Leica story comes from a watch forum I frequent. A few years ago a gentleman bought an M-Leica set. Can't remember what body, maybe the 240 and a set of lenses. Surely over 20K worth. What was his intended use? To take macro pics of his watches!!! Now that was a good laugh. Talk about buying into the name. This gentleman knew very little about photography and even less of Leica, but he surely wanted "the best" aka most expensive.

There are Leicas that are very rare, and are never used. There's a store in Tokyo which sells rare Leicas, they have them vacuum bagged, not meant to be opened. There's much similarity to the Vintage Rolex market for example. 

 

Rimowa (only luggage I use) has also a very strong following, simply because they are the best in the world at what they do. Yes there's a bit of snobbery to the brand, but you really get what you pay for. I'm not sure about the 1800 dollar suitcase, I guess they're a lot more expensive in the US (as usual for EU stuff), but I've never payed even 1000 euro for mine. Struck a good deal on my latest (E-tag aluminum) for under 700 euro! (Store in Helsinki quit carrying the brand) My first Rimowa is still going strong, been around the world many times. Looks like S*it really I guess, full of stickers and dings and dents. I've replaced several rivets myself. I use a hammer to knock out the really bad dents myself. (I love working with metal because you can always beat it back into submission - Jesse James). Rimowa is a truly great brand (Aluminum range) with a product truly worth its price. Lasts forever, looks great and yes has that little luxury appeal. 

Same watch forum as the example above had a thread about luggage recently and there was a gentleman showing off his Rimowa collection. I think he had 10 bags (if not more) most of them aluminums. He didn't use them for traveling, as they would get dented and scratched! LOL!!! 

 

Now to the 10K B&O TV. Surely this is possible, but it will need to be EXCLUSIVE! Not a re-branded Samsung screen. What Leica, Rolex, Rimowa does is ALL in-house. They do not seek components from outside, simply because there isn't any. Yes Leica played the re-branded Panasonic and whatnot (and still puts their name on smartphone lenses etc... But their core product the M-series is really a hand built camera in Germany. Yes they don't make all of their own components, but the design is almost as far as you can go Leica. I'm not talking about B&O having to make their own chips for the TV's, but 10K for a B&O TV isn't there Brand-wise today I'm afraid.

They managed to sell quite many 20K BV9's in their "look at me I'm expensive Hay-day", heck they even sold some 100K TV's! I have a BV9 that I love. Will keep it until it breaks and cannot be fixed for a sensible sum, but was it ever worth 20K? Absolutely not!    

Too long to list.... 

mawheele
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bayerische:
Now to the 10K B&O TV. Surely this is possible, but it will need to be EXCLUSIVE! Not a re-branded Samsung screen. What Leica, Rolex, Rimowa does is ALL in-house. They do not seek components from outside, simply because there isn't any. Yes Leica played the re-branded Panasonic and whatnot (and still puts their name on smartphone lenses etc... But their core product the M-series is really a hand built camera in Germany. Yes they don't make all of their own components, but the design is almost as far as you can go Leica. I'm not talking about B&O having to make their own chips for the TV's, but 10K for a B&O TV isn't there Brand-wise today I'm afraid.

 

Unfortunately, this is just not a reality in todays world. I think you'll find many Sony and Panasonic parts in your modern day Leica. In fact, one model is just a rebodied LX100. And if Rolex were to do a smart watch, they would need to go externally for an OS, chipset, battery and more. 

My Tesla has Mercedes Switch gear and many components from Bosch and others. Even Apple with all its wealth and the ability to design its own processors still uses Intel for its modems, knowing full well they are not the best. 

I think you'll find if you go hands on with the Eclipse, you'll see B&O has done an exceptional job integrating the best of todays technology and made it their own. There are only a few signs that would show you its an LG under the hood if you were not pre-informed. Listen to those that actually own the Eclipse on this board and you'll hear similarly that its probably the best implementation of what we expect from B&O using third-party components to derive a reliable high performing product. 

You can deliver a 'luxury' product integrating reliable mainstream components that have had billions invested to ensure their performance and quality. 

 

bayerische
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Mawheele,

 

Absolutely, it is the truth, someone like B&O can't make their own screen, no point to it. That's one of the problems they're facing.

I'm sure the Eclipse is a great TV. 

I'm guessing there's only so many things that can truly be "premium" or "luxury" and perhaps in todays world the TV just isn't one of them. I watch very little TV. Not even an hour/day. Young people use the TV for their gaming consoles. 

The TV isn't the centre of information and entertainment anymore as it once was, that's your iPhone/iPad/computer. 

When I compare the use of my BV9 to my BL5's, the BL5's gets 5-6X the use. 

Too long to list.... 

Aussie Michael
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would anyone like to see B&O integrate a sound centre in to the rollable LG OLED? 

Millemissen
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I would!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Wed, Jan 9 2019 9:47 AM

bayerische:

Rimowa (only luggage I use)

Well, I urge you to widen your horizon and look at AWAY: https://www.awaytravel.com/

Far cheaper, more options, much friendlier and far more eager to fix your case. AWAY suitcases have a life repair service. As an example, the wheel off my expensive Monocle x Rimowa case broke in the US. I contacted Rimowa and they said it's (just) out of warranty so had to be paid to be fixed. I had to drag it to a repair centre (or post it) and they'd quote. 

When I was in the AWAY showroom I mentioned the issues I had with Rimowa and they said their products would be fixed or replaced for free, irrespective of being out of the warranty period, for problems such as a broken wheel.

leosgonewild
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Aussie Michael:

would anyone like to see B&O integrate a sound centre in to the rollable LG OLED?

The video of the LG tv made me jizz a little in my pants Stick out tongue

Joking aside, it is the first time since the original iPhone that I have seen technology that has amazed me.

I am very excited to hear how it sounds.

The dream from B&O here would be a similar unit with built-in wireless ATMOS.
Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Wed, Jan 9 2019 11:19 AM

Was listening to The Verge podcast from CES yesterday - laughed out loud when they said the rollable LG looked like a Bang and Olufsen product!

Their thinking was that it was a bit niche, use case wise, but sufficiently luxurious that it reeked of B&O.

Laughed even more when they said its should be easy for B&O to do this rollable TV, given their partnership with LG.

 

 

 

KMA
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KMA replied on Wed, Jan 9 2019 12:07 PM
Sandyb:

Was listening to The Verge podcast from CES yesterday - laughed out loud when they said the rollable LG looked like a Bang and Olufsen product!

Their thinking was that it was a bit niche, use case wise, but sufficiently luxurious that it reeked of B&O.

Laughed even more when they said its should be easy for B&O to do this rollable TV, given their partnership with LG.

Well it does have more mechanical magic than any B&O product in recent years Wink

Is the audio done by Meridian? It'll be interesting to hear how it sounds.

Also, I wager that you can get the LG R9 for the price of Eclipse 65" once it comes for sale later this year.

Well done, LG Yes - thumbs up

KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

benoit
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benoit replied on Wed, Jan 9 2019 12:26 PM

KMA:
Well it does have more mechanical magic than any B&O product in recent years Wink

Is the audio done by Meridian? It'll be interesting to hear how it sounds.

Also, I wager that you can get the LG R9 for the price of Eclipse 65" once it comes for sale later this year.

Well done, LG Yes - thumbs up

For sure I would go for the LG if had space for such a huge screen.

LG could even have named it Eclipse as well Wink

I have been hypnotized by this magical smooth movement.

What a pity they don't have it in 55" size which would be perfect for me.

 

Brian
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Brian replied on Wed, Jan 9 2019 3:28 PM

Took the words right out of my mouth - that rollable, Alu cased 65 with the moving parts reminded me of B&O old school products.

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