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beovision Eclipse and LG OLED panel

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gysse2004
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gysse2004 Posted: Tue, Dec 25 2018 2:11 PM

Curious, is the software running the soundpart of the Eclipse imbedded in the LG monitor software, or are they separate? What I mean, is the LG monitor a “clean” tv, and the B&O software is in the soundbar? beside the mounting problems involved, would a LG77 OLED monitor work with the soundbar. Or is it more complicated then just power and hdmi ?  🤔

Peter

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Michael
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Michael replied on Tue, Dec 25 2018 3:05 PM
gysse2004:

Curious, is the software running the soundpart of the Eclipse imbedded in the LG monitor software, or are they separate? What I mean, is the LG monitor a “clean” tv, and the B&O software is in the soundbar? beside the mounting problems involved, would a LG77 OLED monitor work with the soundbar. Or is it more complicated then just power and hdmi ? 🤔

Peter

It’s a modified firmware in the TV but a generic hardware except for that. So it should be possible to flash a random LG of the same make but I am not sure how they’ve designed the upgrade/flash procedure or if it can be accessed easily. If you have the sound bar I guess you also have the tv or are they sold separately?
gysse2004
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gysse2004 replied on Tue, Dec 25 2018 3:09 PM

No no, I have the Eclipse 65...just curious. Happy with the setup, but in the future, you know.

br

peter

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Millemissen
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This has been discussed over and over again on the forum.

At some point it was suggested, that owners of the Eclipse could make the test of connecting a stock LG tv.

Noone took the challenge, though.

IMHO don’t expect that you can use any other (LG) tv than the delievered LG tv part with the Sound Center.

MM

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gysse2004 replied on Tue, Dec 25 2018 6:47 PM

Thanks MM, clear answer 

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mawheele replied on Tue, Dec 25 2018 7:47 PM

Now that I've had enough time with my Eclipse - having moved from the Mk1 Avant 55 - unless you have some hardware skills and some serious software skills, it would be pretty darned impossible to link a generic C7-55 to the rest of the Eclipse hardware.  In fact, unless you were from B&O with some knowledge of what was engineered, I'd suggest its almost economically impossible. 

Despite what I read on these boards who suggest its simply a repackaged LG on a soundbar, I can attest from what I now see that B&O did a lot of software work with a number of new modules for WebOS and a little hardware work, and some design work to the rear of the unit, plus integration into the stands and speaker. 

Whilst it probably wasn't the most expensive R&D project they've ever done - its certainly a proper B&O product. If anything, taking the reliable baseline that LG offered and then building on top of it is akin to a house on strong foundations. 

I'm impressed so far. I don't believe B&O could have ever delivered such a polished product without having access to LG software and hardware. WebOS is a modern operating system that's gone well from being for a phone to a TV.  It's amazing how bad Android was in that same attempt. 

 

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Mikipidia replied on Tue, Dec 25 2018 7:50 PM
Millemissen:

This has been discussed over and over again on the forum.

At some point it was suggested, that owners of the Eclipse could make the test of connecting a stock LG tv.

Noone took the challenge, though.

IMHO don’t expect that you can use any other (LG) tv than the delievered LG tv part with the Sound Center.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Iam still willing to take the challange, i just don’t own an LG tv. So if there is anybody in the area that has one i’d be happy to test it with(as i’ve said before).

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tigerisak replied on Tue, Dec 25 2018 8:22 PM

So. Any idea when LG will roll out version of webos 5.80.10? 

Michael
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Michael replied on Tue, Dec 25 2018 9:22 PM
mawheele:

Now that I've had enough time with my Eclipse - having moved from the Mk1 Avant 55 - unless you have some hardware skills and some serious software skills, it would be pretty darned impossible to link a generic C7-55 to the rest of the Eclipse hardware. In fact, unless you were from B&O with some knowledge of what was engineered, I'd suggest its almost economically impossible.

Despite what I read on these boards who suggest its simply a repackaged LG on a soundbar, I can attest from what I now see that B&O did a lot of software work with a number of new modules for WebOS and a little hardware work, and some design work to the rear of the unit, plus integration into the stands and speaker.

Whilst it probably wasn't the most expensive R&D project they've ever done - its certainly a proper B&O product. If anything, taking the reliable baseline that LG offered and then building on top of it is akin to a house on strong foundations.

I'm impressed so far. I don't believe B&O could have ever delivered such a polished product without having access to LG software and hardware. WebOS is a modern operating system that's gone well from being for a phone to a TV. It's amazing how bad Android was in that same attempt.

I think you’re confused. It’s a generic LG TV in hardware. It just has a plastic casing to B&Os design choice. The hardware boards are not different. It connects to the soundcenter over generic ports and everything is software linked. Of course it’s a collaboration effort but the software could without a doubt run on a similar hardware TV - as long as you have the software of course. It’s like a computer.

I don’t see much reason in doing so except for if the sound center would be cheaper to buy separately. I think this is the future we will see too. Meaning LG WebOS open integration.

Buy any Lg set and connect your B&O sound center. Download the application package and you’re set. This would benefit both B&O who can move more quickly with Lg updates and LG gains more of a luxury brand experience. Without too much effort.
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Puncher replied on Tue, Dec 25 2018 9:36 PM

I doubt LG will do anything to specifically suit B&O, as their audio "partner" is Meridian and so I would possibly expect specific TV's with Meridian sound and everyone else (incl b&o) will have to offer the best they can based upon generic interfaces such as hdmi/arc etc.

Ban boring signatures!

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Michael replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 12:43 AM
Puncher:

I doubt LG will do anything to specifically suit B&O, as their audio "partner" is Meridian and so I would possibly expect specific TV's with Meridian sound and everyone else (incl b&o) will have to offer the best they can based upon generic interfaces such as hdmi/arc etc.

Ban boring signatures!

Well they did the eclipse Big Smile
Puncher
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Puncher replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 9:04 AM

Michael:

 

Well they did the eclipse Big Smile

Before they signed up with Meridian.

Ban boring signatures!

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Sandyb replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 10:29 AM

exactly correct - HDMI / ARC / WISA, and any future sound centre will act like an AV receiver does now, with its own UI / Menus overlaid on top of the TV's own.  Gone will be the integrated UI of BV's in the past. 

Not clear to me that a future BV sound centre / hub will even include PUC - will be nice if it did, but I'm not confident.

 

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Sandyb:

sound centre / hub will even include PUC - will be nice if it did, but I'm not confident.

It will!

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Sandyb replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 11:16 AM

hope you are right, but how can you say with any certainty?

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Sandyb:

exactly correct - HDMI / ARC / WISA, and any future sound centre will act like an AV receiver does now, with its own UI / Menus overlaid on top of the TV's own.  Gone will be the integrated UI of BV's in the past. 

And how do you intend to remote control the internal sources (app’s and tuners) of the connected tv?

How should these sources be visible on the Beo remote like now for easy access.

How to access the setup of the tv....without the original tv remote?

MM

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Sandyb replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 11:32 AM

Use the native / original TV remote.

Once again, all I have raised is the nontrivial probability (to me anyway) that some of the things you have got used to in the past may not survive into the future. Responses such as "but how will I be able to do what I can now" risk entirely missing the point.

They are, after all, an audio company now - will control of video sources (as in the past) really be uppermost in their thinking.

I'd think it wise to assume not, though I certainly hope to be wrong.

 

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Mikipidia replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 12:39 PM
Couldn’t you use the Hdmi cec standard for that? That’s what lg already uses for compatible separate boxes to control via the lg remote on their regular tvs. Cec is basically just a return channel for input data and such.

I’ve seen (i think it was dynan) soundbars controlled in their own(not the lg one) menus and be able to adjusted via the lg remote.

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Sandyb replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 12:56 PM

Yes you can - though CEC control is not quite as extensive as PUC can be. But its not as if PUC fully replaces some external device remotes, so its not perfect.

And with some external device remotes being voice enabled, a PUC / BR One combo has a further missing control function.

But for basic navigation, playback control etc, CEC can be perfectly fine.

Would love them to continue PUC, but not confident they will.

My guess is that a future sound centre will not come with a BR One pulling in a bunch of source functions via the PUC.

B&O will probably allow an existing BR One to do a few basic things with the Sound Centre - much like a BR One can do a few basic things with a BS2 / A9 etc now, but that's a different outcome to the status quo which I'm less confident B&O will maintain through the next product cycle.

 

 

 

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poodleboy replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 1:02 PM

Sandyb:

Use the native / original TV remote.

Once again, all I have raised is the nontrivial probability (to me anyway) that some of the things you have got used to in the past may not survive into the future. Responses such as "but how will I be able to do what I can now" risk entirely missing the point.

They are, after all, an audio company now - will control of video sources (as in the past) really be uppermost in their thinking.

I'd think it wise to assume not, though I certainly hope to be wrong.

Recognize that having your remote control strategy be a trading barrier in the world market is not relevant, draw a line in the sand to the past, and make new B&O remote codes the same frequency as everyone else? 

I wonder how many countries would have right hand drive if they could do over? Tech is different as there is absolutely NO business case to make a future B&O sound bar have a different frequency than the TVs it will match.

Maybe they can sell backward compatibility boxes, or a remote controller frequency option for a few years for us old-schoolers (pipes and sweaters). But then, how is the Not Invented Here strategy working these days? 

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Jeff replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 2:13 PM

Michael:
Puncher:

 

I doubt LG will do anything to specifically suit B&O, as their audio "partner" is Meridian and so I would possibly expect specific TV's with Meridian sound and everyone else (incl b&o) will have to offer the best they can based upon generic interfaces such as hdmi/arc etc.

 

Ban boring signatures!

 

 

Well they did the eclipse Big Smile

Does make you wonder what was the essence of the 2016 LG/B&O "partnership" in that the Meridian edged in after only one B&O and one LG product launch. Given product lead times the LG/Meridian sound bar and cellphone must have been on the horizon at the time of Eclipse release, and the relationship with B&O never in great shape. 

Jeff

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Sandyb replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 2:24 PM

Wasn't B^O's relationship with LG Display - whereas LF Electronics have partnered with Meridian.

I Imagine the B&O / LG relationship was to an extent exploratory, and by the sound of things B&O have decided to focus on audio and drop video entirely, so I imagine B&O had as much to do with walking away.

A shame regardless - a Wallpaper LG integrated with a B&O sound system (remote, NL, etc) would have been nice (without going through hoops, and retaining NL).

 

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poodleboy replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 3:30 PM

Sandyb:

Wasn't B^O's relationship with LG Display - whereas LF Electronics have partnered with Meridian.

I Imagine the B&O / LG relationship was to an extent exploratory, and by the sound of things B&O have decided to focus on audio and drop video entirely, so I imagine B&O had as much to do with walking away.

A shame regardless - a Wallpaper LG integrated with a B&O sound system (remote, NL, etc) would have been nice (without going through hoops, and retaining NL).

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/31/16232220/lg-v30-launch-ifa-2017-bang-olufsen-logo

This announcement just over a year ago. B&O certainly offered LG not much video experts so they walked away from the area where they offer great value (in return get revenue and build the brand). A courageous move or continue Hans in Luck?

The share buy back program strike hard this week along with high volume trading and more price drop. That suggest interesting scenarios or maybe nothing. I have a suspicion not many at B&O are thinking about products these days. 

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Mikipidia replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 3:59 PM
Sandyb:

My guess is that a future sound centre will not come with a BR One pulling in a bunch of source functions via the PUC.

I don’t think you’re far off with this one, but would it be at all surprising with how quickly and suddenly they dropped support for nl/ml linkconvertor and or ml in general with the current range of products? I fully expect them to keep on dropping support for what last gen’s users thought made b&o special. They’ll keep nl for probably another few year and then they’ll fully go with the airplay/chromecast route

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Michael replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 6:04 PM
Everyone knows so much, and everyone knows different things. Arguing on the internet certainly is like.. arguing on the internet.

Businesses make decisions behind closed doors, with deals seldom known to everyone else. I can only hope B&O finds a good way in the future. It’s not Bluetooth speakers and headphones alone. The video and integration is part of why people wants these products, I think. Can’t cut the heart out of a body and expect the limbs to live, even though those parts are loved.
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Sandyb replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 6:19 PM

I have no knowledge, but given the way the company (retreating from video, talking about being a premium audio company etc) are going, and broader evolutions in tech and tastes, it would be unwise to expect a lot of what we have got used to over the years to carry forward.

Some of the new stuff I don't need (voice as a control paradigm), so I'd love continuity (of remotes, PUCs etc).

But some of these feature are clearly at risk of de-emphaisis.

The world moves on - many would ague that the company has crossed lines previously thought unlikely. As such, you cannot rule then out doing so again.

 

Barry Santini
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They should’ve done the soundbar/stand/communications center in place of the Eclipse
Millemissen
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Sandyb:

My guess is that a future sound centre will not come with a BR One pulling in a bunch of source functions via the PUC.

B&O will probably allow an existing BR One to do a few basic things with the Sound Centre - much like a BR One can do a few basic things with a BS2 / A9 etc now, but that's a different outcome to the status quo which I'm less confident B&O will maintain through the next product cycle.

That would not be a Sound Center then - it would be a soundbar (with a HDMI/ARC connection).

With a Sound Center there is a lot more to control than just ‘a few basic things‘.

And for such a Soundbar and the ‘few basic things’ to control, who would want to buy an expensive remote control like the BROne?

The examples with a tv and a soundbar clearly show that it will be the remote of the tv, that controls the soundbar = means the LG remote is in and the B&O remote is out.

How much is then really left of B&O in such a tv/soundbar construction - a sticker on the bar?

 

Given the efford they have made and still make in order to make the BROne a remote control for any modern BeoSound (including the M’s and A’s) and for all sorts of home controlling (light, curtains etc) I see little evidence that they will drop a B&O remote in the product portefolio.

However, I still have the question - not just for you - how will they control a tv of your own choice?

Will the second remote really be the end of that dilemma.

Or will they come up with a solution that we - caught up in our own speculations - haven’t thought of?

The guys in Struer have surpriced us before 😀

 

MM

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Wed, Dec 26 2018 9:34 PM

This debate started a few months back when it became a bit clearer than there would be no more BV's, and many responded by saying fine, just sell me the SoundCentre from the Eclipse, with a BR One, PUC capability. 

They may indeed do that, or something close. 

I'm not going to repeat again my thoughts as to why, while we may indeed get a Sound Centre type of product, it's far from a given that PUC will survive (and CEC will be relied upon), nor that the remote that comes with it will be the all singing all dancing BR One. It may be something else, whatever that may be. 

Doesn't mean it doesn't come with PUC and a BR One, I'm just not confident.

IR and IR blasters are used less and less, voice  / apps used more, etc etc.

As for the distinction between a Sound Centre and Sound Bar - that's a bit fuzzy. Higher end sound bars have multiple HDMI connections, and more or less do the job of an AV receiver (or good enough for many who would have bought an AV receiver).

And after all we are in a world where modern smart TV's are getting better, and while they haven't covered themselves in glory OS wise in the past, they'll soon be in a good enough position where external boxes (streaming solutions etc) will become the exception not the norm. A further reason why PUC may not be uppermost in their thinking.

For the record, the idea of 2 remotes in my lounge is a horrible prospect, it's not something I wish for believe me.

B&O's focus is narrowing, not expanding - so I'd suggest its been a while since they surprised us on the upside.

 

 

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Well, I think next relevant question (apart from „what“) is WHEN do we see that new product from B&O?

I can‘t keep my buying decision for the next TV endlessly on hold. ;)

Millemissen
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That’s a good question.

I wish I could answer that - however, if I could, I probably wouldn’t.

MM

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Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Thu, Dec 27 2018 12:10 AM
If they have some sense, 2019. Although it might be a paper launch and deliveries will start very late in the year, possibly jan 2020. My bet is end of 3rd quarter/beginning 4th quarter 2019 for the launch. Then again you never really know as the ceo seems to be under fire atm

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Frankly, I was hoping for CES „soft“ launch but it can easily happen you are right about late 2019. In that case, I need to start searching for an Avant OG. Too bad their owners seem to be very happy with them LOL.

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qweoczz replied on Thu, Dec 27 2018 8:33 AM

right about late 2019. In that case,

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