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Mesh WIFI and Moment issues-- BO Design issue??

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Hockey44
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Hockey44 posted on Tue, Dec 18 2018 2:59 PM

Hello all,

I hope you are all getting ready for Christmas.  I am having a very frustrating experience with trying to get my Moment to work with a large 12tb Synology NAS and various hard-wired Beolab 5s.  My Moment for the past 2 years has never really worked properly as it always said "weak" wifi connection (on the tablet-- remote control) and craps out (technical term--  says on tablet my wifi "is too weak" although I have 200mbs fiber in my house!) even when in the cradle.  I brought the Moment to be tested in DK and they confirmed it is working correctly and MY problem is that I have a professional grade (Pakedge) mesh wifi in our home.  And it seems that BO products (ALL!!) do not work or well with Mesh wifi!  This is almost as ridiculous as my old BO tv did not have an HDMI cable!  Can someone please confirm that this is nonsense (I hope) and that in fact BO products work fine with Mesh wifi.  I have a Linksys Velop in NYC with Beolab 9s and have yet to try using the Beosound radio... I simply cannot believe that BO who are now selling more wifi speakers (finally to compete with Sonos) and have Mesh issues.  This is NOT a problem with my 1 Sonos speak I might add....hmm.

We have still not figured out how to use our Beosound 9000 and the Moment to 'control'.  Clearly BO have not figured out how to integrate their own technology (and then don't want to support it)-- I really wonder how this is tolerated in today's market with so many alternatives.  We have spent a lot of money on our much beloved BO products and aesthetics, however the after-sales support leaves so much to be desired.  A very un-Danish experience if I dare say so.

And for anyone in London, can you please suggest a very experienced and competent BO technician who knows and understands how the Moment is supposed to work and might be able to help me out.

Merry Christmas!

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Hiort
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Hiort replied on Tue, Dec 18 2018 5:34 PM
Hmm.. difficult to give advice.

Can you please share how your Moment is connected in your network?

Generally I would say Moment work best when wired. I have mine connected over power line adapters, so there is no need to pull cables.

Regarding getting BS9000 to work with a Moment you need a NL/ML converter to bridge the two technologies. Moment is a Netlink product and BS9000 is Masterlink based.

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Library: A6, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5 Office: Beocom 2 Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay P2

Beophile
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I also have a Pakedge system at my house with 3 of the WX-1 Access Points managed by an NK-1 Wireless Controller.  I'm not sure what Pakedge devices you have, but its my understanding that (at least in the US) Pakedge does not have a "Mesh" WiFI system and instead offers multiple access point systems that are collectively managed (but I could be wrong).  Thus, at first I'd first confirm that you do in fact have a "Mesh" Wifi system.

 

Also, I can tell you that I have had nothing but problems with the Pakedge system I've had for the past two years.  I also have a Moment and have had  Wifi connection issues with the Moment and the Pakedge system.  However, its not just the Moment, I have had periodic issues of little to no service on the 2.4 or 5 band despite standing right next to the access point regardless of the device.  Also, I have significant variations in Wifi strength by talking a few steps in one direction or another, once again regardless of the device.  Frankly, the issues I've had can be very misleading.  For example, the Moment could be on the 2.4 network experiencing an Wifi issue, and then your phone right next to it is not (until you realize its on the 5 network which is working).  I'd recommend that you very that both the Moment and your phone are on the same network and then when you experience an issue with the Moment, also test Wifi with your phone at the same location.  It wouldn't surprise me to find that your phone also is acting up at the same time on the same band/location as the moment.  Also, the issues I have are periodic where the problem is there one minute but gone the next (although sometimes it persists for a bit).

 

My AV guy has been tweaking my system to get it working and at present has it where its at least is OK (but not great).  He believes the issues is caused by my neighbor's Orbi mesh network that is turned up very high and using most of the available Wifi channels.  However, I'm not entirely convinced.  I believe the issue I have also stems from the wireless controller holding on to week channels/connections to an access point too long and not switching over to the closest access point.  I also think my access points are interfering with each other (for whatever reason two of my access point always switch to the same channel).

 

Frankly I wish went with something like a google mesh system, but at this point I'm going to try to throw another access point in the mix in an attempt to address the problem.

 

I wish you the best of luck in sorting out your WiFi issues; I know it can be very frustrating.

 

 

mbolo01
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I have no experience with the mesh networks, but about one year ago I was told by B&O that they had serious issues with this type networks, Moment included, and that they were busy fixing them thus some delays in providing fixes for other products .... such as the Moment. I cannot tell you if they have addressed them completely or partially.

I've also read that Google mesh network for example may have issue with some wifi hardware that are confused with the way Google mixes 2.4 and 5 Ghz channels. As mesh network infrastructures are most of the time proprietary, only testing can tell you if it is the right choice.

BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1

Hockey44
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Thanks for your comments.  Let me clarify and also many thanks for 'educating' me that I do not in fact have a Mesh wifi but rather "wireless access points" from Pakedge.

I have the RK-1 router, NK-1 controller and not sure if I have WK or WX wireless access points (I am in Denmark now and home is London-- they are square white devices).  However, we too had a problem with one of the WK's (or WX) and it kept 'dropping' so Pakedge replaced eventually this defective wireless access points.  After having to go through multiple tweaks to get the system to work properly and seamlessly switch between floors (we have 3) it has been stable and works 'as promised' now-- EXCEPT for my bloody Moment.

My Moment is hardwired to my network as I have a remote (2 floors away) Synology NAS 16tb which when the flaky Moment works, finds the very large music library and after many hours loads all the usual correct stuff.  But when I use the 'tablet' from the Moment to select a tune or album it keeps telling me "weak wifi" and reconnecting!  I have done multiple full resets WITHOUT change-- same crap about 'weak wifi' continues.  I ensure that the Moment is connected to the correct wifi network.  In fact, the Pakedge router and wireless access point is about only 4 meters away!  If I use my iPhone to test speed- no problem it finds network and speeds unto 200mbs-- so I know the wifi signal is strong and fast.

I brought my Moment back to Copenhagen (here for a month) and my local guy had it tested (he is BO) and they confirm it is working correctly and attribute my problem(s) to "Mesh".  Well I was wrong and thanks for the clarification.  I do have also have a Linksys Velop (mesh) in our apt here with 3 'nodes' and I must say it works great and a hell of lot easier and cheaper than Pakedge (1/10th the cost!).  So at least the 'excuse' of Mesh by BO cannot be applied-- so now what do I do? I have spent a fortune having a London based BO 'technician' wire our system and the experience was costly, ineffective and extremely frustrating.  We have these amazing Beo5 speakers, a massive NAS, a wonderful Beosound 9000 (looks great) to play the odd CD and so far NOTHING works unless all the stars are aligned, a black cat crosses the street and cosmic rays hit London all while I am standing on 1 leg...you get the idea...

I am wits end trying to figure out how to make the devices 'talk' to each other and anyone who has spent the kind of money that Beo5 speakers should have a system that works!  (I have also learned that no longer having a BO TV has made the connectivity with Moment direct to Beo5 and 9000 a royal pain--it seems that BO kind of expected you have the TV for the 'hub'.  Yes if you spend big money on network controller this sort of works (I chose not to) since you cannot use the Tablet from the Moment to even control volume on 9000!  Imagine you would need to use the old BO TV remote (still have that) and use it for the 9000 and then the Tablet for the NAS! A totally pathetic "solution"...walk around with tablet and remote if you want to change CD's or volume).

Please chime in if I have made any silly mistakes (possible-- and certainly local BO help hasn't worked) or missed something.  After many thousands of pounds to local BO team who in fact even knew prior to our renovation my wishes-- they could not spec the system correctly (or whether it would in fact work as I had expected).  At no time was I told that the Moment could not operate my NAS, play the sound through the Beo5s nor any issue with the 9000.

Thanks again

mbolo01
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mbolo01 replied on Tue, Dec 18 2018 10:01 PM

Hockey44:

I do have also have a Linksys Velop (mesh) in our apt here with 3 'nodes' and I must say it works great and a hell of lot easier and cheaper than Pakedge (1/10th the cost!).

Do you have a single WiFi network name (SSID) for both the legacy Pakedge and the Velop mesh network?

BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Wed, Dec 19 2018 7:40 AM

I think the weak wifi indicated by the Moment tablet (called Jukebox) is related to problems with your Wifi. I added Ubiquiti accespoints connected to a rather simple Cable Modem / Router and have had no wifi problems since then. I also use a Synology NAS with my Moment.

I have a rather small library (3000 songs) and I think some of the forum members have experienced problems when having a Moment harvesting large libraries from a NAS. I assume you have the latest firmware on your Moment.

The other problem you mention, regarding not being able to use BS9000, Beolab5 and Moment in a good way I´m surprised that a B&O dealer cannot give you proper advice. Those units are able to co-exist, with the right accessories and settings and I´m sure there are forum members that can guide you.

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Library: A6, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5 Office: Beocom 2 Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay P2

Pat
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Pat replied on Wed, Dec 19 2018 7:56 AM
Looks like the Jukebox (tablet) doesn’t switch automatically to the closest ( strongest) access point and still talking the the router or other AP. This is to do with your network, unless you switch off your tablet and switch it on again, then should find the local one in the theory, but still ... network.
Hockey44
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Thanks again for the thoughts-- and I had tried so many times to switch on and off the tablet that it seems to work and then hunts for an old network (I used to have one linked to a TimeCapsul-- Mac)-- but that is long gone.  I can't figure out how to 'wipe' that old network from the jukebox.  So I reset and enter the correct network and this takes forever given it has to rebuild the entire 'harvest'....any ideas how to remove a network from tablet?  thanks

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Wed, Dec 19 2018 9:24 AM

Hockey44:

Thanks again for the thoughts-- and I had tried so many times to switch on and off the tablet that it seems to work and then hunts for an old network (I used to have one linked to a TimeCapsul-- Mac)-- but that is long gone.  I can't figure out how to 'wipe' that old network from the jukebox.  So I reset and enter the correct network and this takes forever given it has to rebuild the entire 'harvest'....any ideas how to remove a network from tablet?  thanks

To my knowledge, the Jukebox is using the network that you configure in the setup of the Soundhub (the base). Thats why you need to configure wifi even though you hardwire the Soundhub. I very much doubt the Jukebox is searching for "old" networks, if it cannot find the one that its been setup with. Its not like your mobile phone that stores all WIFI AP:s its been connected to.

 

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Library: A6, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5 Office: Beocom 2 Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay P2

Hockey44
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Hockey44 replied on Wed, Dec 19 2018 10:29 AM

Greetings again,  the mystery continues...  I just spoke with a Pakedge installer in the UK and he told me that there should have been a dedicated network (SSID) for the B+O.  He believes there are known encryption issues between Pakedge and B+O and that B+O may not support the same encryption that I have on my Pakedge-- hence it always craps out and loses network.

Does this make sense?  What he suggested was that I have Pakedge create a new SSID for JUST my Moment.  And this should be done from closest wifi point.  Can anyone advise what encryption protocol I should be using on the Pakedge so it also works with B+O.

 

Does this "new theory" make sense about encryption and that being my problem?

Thanks,

Ed 

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Wed, Dec 19 2018 10:43 AM

I´m a bit shallow when it comes to Wifi networks, but it does at least sounds like something to try. I guess the ordinary WPA or WPA2 PSK should be used. What encryption do you have to choose from?

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Library: A6, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5 Office: Beocom 2 Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay P2

mbolo01
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WPA/WPA2 are fine for the Jukebox and the only WiFi network frequency supported by the Jukebox is 2.4 ghz

I don’t see the point of a dedicated SSID for the B&O devices other than parking as much as possible trouble makers .... at the price of loosing usability/practicability. This is common B&O answer for wired and wireless setups. I’m on a single Devolo WiFi/CPL network since years without any major issues.

Nevertheless, If your mesh network has the same SSID than your Pakedge APs then issues must be expected for sure.

Not sure how easy it is for you, but I would try a scenario with the Pakedge WiFi network only, then the Velop network only, and see what happens.

While you cannot remove the memorized WiFi network from the Jukebox, you surely can remove it from the network it has registered too, I.e. Pakedge or Velop, if you have the admin access and know how to do it.

Note: Pakedge is recommended by B&O in their Idea Catalog ver 3.2

BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1

Hockey44
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Thanks for your input.  I am checking with the Pakedge installer that we are on 2.4hz and form of encryption that was set up as well-- that was new to me as well.  No one at BO said it must be on 2.4hz.  Just to be clear I do NOT have a Linksys Velop in London (I have those in other locations). So we do NOT have a mesh system (that supposedly is incompatible with BO).

I can see that the Jukebox always wants to connect to an old network I had before we moved to London and seems to still be active via an Apple Timecapsul in our house. II will have to try to figure out how to turn the wifi broadcast from that-- as it seems to be confusing things.

Thanks

 

Hockey44
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Thanks for your input.  I am checking with the Pakedge installer that we are on 2.4hz and form of encryption that was set up as well-- that was new to me as well.  No one at BO said it must be on 2.4hz.  Just to be clear I do NOT have a Linksys Velop in London (I have those in other locations). So we do NOT have a mesh system (that supposedly is incompatible with BO).

I can see that the Jukebox always wants to connect to an old network I had before we moved to London and seems to still be active via an Apple Timecapsul in our house. II will have to try to figure out how to turn the wifi broadcast from that-- as it seems to be confusing things.

Thanks

 

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