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No news about new products?

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koning
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koning posted on Sun, Oct 21 2018 1:40 PM

@Roger   Still no new products in the pipeline?

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Nov 10 2018 1:41 PM

Barry Santini:
elephant:

 

I see the Core ad a streamer ... yes of internet stereo sources; and also a joiner to other stereo sourced rooms.

 

Just having a soundbar is not B&O value.

 

A B&O soundbat must be source and a destination for multi-room setups. BeoNut since '75

 

 

 

Disagree. B&O soundbar frees sound and control from recent poor video decisions by mama.

Agree completely, plus would expand the potential market to a lot of us who don't think the Beovisions are worth it and/or like to change panels to keep up with new tech often. But, I hate to say it, given B&Os problems of late, I'm not sure I would trust a product like this from them and buy it, even though it would allow me to merge my systems, audio and video, and if it were rationally priced.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

vikinger
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Jeff:

Barry Santini:
elephant:

I see the Core ad a streamer ... yes of internet stereo sources; and also a joiner to other stereo sourced rooms.

Just having a soundbar is not B&O value.

A B&O soundbat must be source and a destination for multi-room setups. BeoNut since '75

Disagree. B&O soundbar frees sound and control from recent poor video decisions by mama.

Agree completely, plus would expand the potential market to a lot of us who don't think the Beovisions are worth it and/or like to change panels to keep up with new tech often. But, I hate to say it, given B&Os problems of late, I'm not sure I would trust a product like this from them and buy it, even though it would allow me to merge my systems, audio and video, and if it were rationally priced.

Can't recall just how many years ago I raised this.. A motorised soundbar on a stand with the PUC control in the soundbar for the screen of your choice mounted above. VESA mount for the panel.  Should be a no brainer for B&O, but are they listening to posters on Beoworld?

Graham

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I think the new soundbar they will release in spring 2019 will be more a "lower end" solution similar to the Beosound 3500 but with HDMI, hopefully not more expensive than 2.900 euro. 

The best and high-end solution would of course be a combination of the Eclipse Soundcenter, a motorized stand with VESA and a BeoRemote One. If B&O would bring this to market at let's say around 5.900 Euro, I am sure they will sell this 3-4 times better than the Eclipse TV. Even if it would cannibalize a bit the Eclipse TV sales, the overall revenue and margin would certainly be better for B&O. Perhaps they will finally change their mind and bring such a product to the market. They claim to concentrate on audio in the future, so this would be a product to prove that they are following this strategy ...

Pricewise by adding standard LG panels to this combination, a 55 inch solution would cost 7.325 Euro (LG 55C8LLA 1425.-+5900.-), a 65 inch solution would cost 8.020 euro (LG 65C8LLA 2120.- +5900.-) and the 77 inch model would cost 11.700 Euro (LG 77C8LLA 4800.-+5900.- plus 1000 Euro add-on cost for the bigger motorized stand for the 77 inch model). 

These prices would be very attractive and B&O would be much more competitive in the market by doing this.

I mean who is still willing to pay 20.000 Euro for a B&O 77 inch TV if the LG panel costs now 4800.- ?? But that would be the price if they would launch a 77 inch Eclipse TV, considering that the 65' Eclipse costs 14.250 Euro

poodleboy
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vikinger:

Jeff:

Barry Santini:
elephant:

I see the Core ad a streamer ... yes of internet stereo sources; and also a joiner to other stereo sourced rooms.

Just having a soundbar is not B&O value.

A B&O soundbat must be source and a destination for multi-room setups. BeoNut since '75

Disagree. B&O soundbar frees sound and control from recent poor video decisions by mama.

Agree completely, plus would expand the potential market to a lot of us who don't think the Beovisions are worth it and/or like to change panels to keep up with new tech often. But, I hate to say it, given B&Os problems of late, I'm not sure I would trust a product like this from them and buy it, even though it would allow me to merge my systems, audio and video, and if it were rationally priced.

Can't recall just how many years ago I raised this.. A motorised soundbar on a stand with the PUC control in the soundbar for the screen of your choice mounted above. VESA mount for the panel.  Should be a no brainer for B&O, but are they listening to posters on Beoworld?

Graham

Stick to what you're good at and good things come.

Several days ago we purchased a new B**** washing machine. I asked the installer about the best brands he sees in his day-to-day experience. He told me that most of them were good, but to never buy an L* or S****** because the electronics boards were fiddly and very expensive to replace. Assuming he was being truthful, wouldn't people like us be very surprised that electronics companies making machines would end up failing at what they supposedly do best?

I also wonder how you can create the ultimate forward AND backward integrating B&O system. It will have to strip the audio from digital sources AND sync with analog coming from an integrated MCL/ML/NL converter and have lots of places to stick different plugs. It will need programmable control points to accept commands in other rooms. This product still must be able to communicate to other integrated systems, like Control 4 and, forget I mentioned it. 

The problems with the future-proof B&O solution is that no one company can be great at everything. Phllips and B&W are making a premium but SIMPLE 2 or 3 channel A/V product with Philips responsible for the outcome. Meridian is now with LG. Loewe controlled by Hisense. B&O went the other direction and, in the interested public's eye, will be out of the video business when the contracts with LG are fulfilled. Why? I think it is because B&O are incapable of making, selling, distributing, and supporting the production of enough A/V products to be profitable. So if B&O want to be in that business, they would now have to be the B&W to the Philips in any given partnership. How likely is that, given their pride history? 

The same will be true for the dream BeoSystem 7++. You absolutely cannot put a cassette player into a 2019 Ford/B&O Play/Sync product. You also cannot make a Past & Future BeoCenter that will look like B&O for a price that’s affordable by anyone who actually looks at his accounts. You have to be absolute masters of tech to manage process sync across platforms not to mention wirelessly. Linn’s extreme version that clicks only half the feature boxes costs 7k euros. B&O got out of the engineering and manufacturing businesses, and what appears left is spec, design, accounting, legal, and marketing; much of it outsourced. Never say never, but...

That's great if the shareholders are pleased. And it would be great to be totally off center with this, but not feeling it. 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Nov 10 2018 5:27 PM

given their pride history?

I think the proper word is arrogance.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Sat, Nov 10 2018 7:40 PM

DesignFreak:

I think the new soundbar they will release in spring 2019 will be more a "lower end"......not more expensive than 2.900 euro. 

I'm not sure "lower end" and EUR 2900 go together. That's more than most people spend on a TV. Most people I know think EUR 1000 is a lot of money to spend on TV, never mind an expensive sound bar.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, Nov 11 2018 9:48 AM

But won't / don't new TV's have plenty of audio sources as part of their smart platforms?

I can see the logic of a sound-bar / sound-centre, whatever - though it's unlikely to please everyone.

1. How broad will its audio capability ? Music wise, i'm sure it will be fine with respect to formats it can decode. Movie wise, are B&O ready to offer Atmos, let alone DTS.  How will people respond if it lacks Atmos? 

2.Many want a Beoremote control - i.e comprehensive control of multiple sources. Given that B&O is following broader trends towards app / choice based UI's, i'm not confident that a regular BR will be part of the product. 

3.PUC control - i remain sceptical that PUC control will be included. As a consequence of how control interfaces are changing, IR blasters are becoming old tech. PUC may be marginally better than HDMI-CEC, but i'm convinced that it will be a victim and not part of a future sound-bar. (Yes, i know, many find this heretical, and i'd love to be wrong).

I would imagine that the sound-bar would / should be Alexa or GA capable - that opens up a range of control scenarios, and underlines why things like PUC, Beoremotes (as currently constituted) and support for very old architecture will fall by the side.

Anyway, in a world without new BV's, it still makes sense to make a B&O sound-bar *** beosystem. 

I'm just not confident that at its core (and paired with a 3rd party screen) the current style BR will be the one remote to rule them all. At a minimum, PUC will not be part of it.

 

 

 

 

Millemissen
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@Sandyb

In that case - wouldn’t the (BeoPlay) Connectionhub and a 7-2 (or -6) do the job?

For simple 2 channel sound the Toslink connection will be enough, no HDMI-ARC needed there.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, Nov 11 2018 10:32 AM

Not sure, don quite think so.

Not quite sure what you are referring to - but look at the current higher end soundbars, and the Eclipse sound centre.

Isn't the proposition more or less that they split out the Eclipse sound centre for sale and use with 3rd part screens?

That's not a ridiculous proposition by any means, especially if updated with voice control capabilities. Will likely have Airplay 2 and Chromecast too, and WISA too. 

My point more broadly was regarding control - Beoremotes were included as part of a (BV) TV product. I'm not sure that the broken out and separately sold Elcipse type sound centre, being primarily an audio product will probably not come with the Beoremote as currently constituted, in which case PUC will be missing.

I'd assume that it would have 4 HDMI connections, and thus video sources route through it to the TV - but it could be the case that it has fewer, and that video sources need to connect to the 3rd party screen, and there is a single ARC channel back to the audio bar. I doubt they'd go down that route, but if they do then its even more unlikely that existing style BR's (and hence PUC) will be well integrated.

In the end, if they are making a new modern product, then new modern control UI's / interfaces will likely be part of it, and some of the older features will fall away.

 

 

 

 

 

Millemissen
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Your post started with:

But won't / don't new TV's have plenty of audio sources as part of their smart platforms?

Given that you mean that all sources we need already are in the modern tv (or could be connected there), there should be no need for anything else than a (B&O quality) speaker/soundbar underneath. They mostly have the video sources also.

However, if you think that there must be options for connecting other (external) BeoLabs, you will need a sound processor of the ‘Sound Center kind’.....

.....not just a hub.

Okay, you could control that via an app, but e.g. changing of volume,Speaker Groups....is much easier with a physical remote.


I’d say - if soundbar from B&O, there are two options:

1: a simple speakerbar with HDMI/ARC or even Toslink.

2: a full monty Sound Center soundbar with, HDMI/ARC, sound processing (TrueImage), PL/WiSA, HDMI-ins with PUC and NL capacity and BeoRemote Control and the app.

(That won’t come cheap, though).

Maybe we will see both options ;-)

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, Nov 11 2018 12:00 PM

Yes, my point / response about audio sources was to someone suggesting the Soundbar needs to have Deezer etc built in - for reasons mentioned above, not sure that will be the case.

And yes, agreed i'm assuming it will allow connection of other BeoLabs and hence need audio processing onboard. That's not unusual for decent soudnbars and as such a safe assumption. So more akin to your option 2.

It's the PUC / Beoremote capability i have doubts over. Yes i know, many would like both. 

They may be part of the specification, but as stated before and for the reasons mentioned previously, i think it's unlikely, especially when it comes to PUC.

That could be a source of disappointment for some. If it is only channel based audio and not the newer object based audio, then that could be another disappointment for some.

But even if it option 2 - a full monty minus a current Beoremote / PUC, thats still potentially a worthwhile product.

A powerful soundbar with these features - HDMI / ARC, 4 HDMI ports for full 4K/HDR pass through, Network Linked, Chromecast / Airplay, TrueImage sound processing. 

I'd love it for a current style Beoremote to provide full control of everything (as now) with this soundbar in combination with a 3rd party screen.

I would just get my head around the idea that PUC won't be there, and perhaps any physical remote will be more limited that the current BR too.

Losing PUC isn't the end of the world anyway - its already not a full replication of a, for example, Sky box remote.

 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, Nov 11 2018 12:10 PM

And yes of course, what is effectively a Beosystem equipped sound bar (with voice control possibly added too) will not be cheap.

But i don't think anyone is seriously expecting such a product to be around 2k, more like 4k.

I'd consider getting one and pairing with a wallpaper LG.

Would need to be able to feed it from my matrix though.

Otherwise, current setup with BV12 and Avant 55 is more than good enough for a while yet.

I don't quite care enough about HDR yet to rejig much of my setup.

 

Millemissen
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Sandyb:

Losing PUC isn't the end of the world anyway - its already not a full replication of a, for example, Sky box remote.

Aha —— that is the Sky box Syndrome. Must be some sort of english disease!

When I think of how my sons Philips Bluray player works with his Philips tv...using CEC, I am more than happy with using PUC for (almost) anything.

I am pretty sure my wife, who is used to a flawless control of our Oppo and the ATV, would give up, when she had to use CEC controlling....

....which works and sometimes don’t - and when it does, it is relatively slow.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sun, Nov 11 2018 2:45 PM

Millemissen:

our Oppo and the ATV,

Well, there's something else we have in common MM. And I enjoy both of them, they just work. The only thing I didn't like about my ATV was remedied quite a while ago when Apple finally added an Amazon Prime Video app to the ATV.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Duels
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Duels replied on Sun, Nov 11 2018 2:59 PM
Jeff:

Well, there's something else we have in common MM. And I enjoy both of them, they just work. The only thing I didn't like about my ATV was remedied quite a while ago when Apple finally added an Amazon Prime Video app to the ATV.

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

Stop agreeing with each other. It’s just not natural.
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