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Beosound Edge - Reactions?

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vikinger
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vikinger replied on Mon, Sep 10 2018 11:28 PM

Jeff:
Next, B&O will create a new speaker that's actually, wow, a rectangular box made out of WOOD! OMG! What a stunning design and so original!

if only it could be the original S45 / S45-2.

Graham

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 1:39 AM

That was and remains a true classic. What they managed to accomplish with those drivers is amazing, relative to more modern tweeters especially. A good designer can make the whole more than the sum of the parts. Same with my old DCM Time Windows. Nothing special driver wise, two 6.5 inch Philips paper cone woofers, two of the same type of Philips dome tweeter as the S45 but they sound wonderful.

Jeff

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BenSA
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BenSA replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 6:57 AM

I think the Edge is really cool and will look awesome in a livingroom....I like it and plenty of other people do. Deal with it. If you don't like it, don't like it but let everyone else enjoy it. 

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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 7:36 AM
No one is stopping your enjoyment

Why would someone else's ambivalence towards the Edge matter?
BenSA
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BenSA replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 9:08 AM

It doesn't but there does seem to be utter disbelief from some posters that there are people that like it, as if we aren't able to comprehend what we are dealing with, almost like people who like it are deficient in some way and its said in multiple posts by the same people. 

And no I don't want another box shaped speaker, I don't need B&O if I wanted that. Edge is a good effort from B&O and if the sound lives up to expectations then it should a success for them. 

 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 9:32 AM

Yeah, you (anyone) can disappear down a rabbit hole in this kind of thing.

I'd only say one thing - the more critical posters are not trolls to me. Trolling is a completely different phenomenon. They're here as fans too, with B&O equipment and some emotional investment. That some have been disappointed to varying degrees, or not inspired, by the last few years i wouldn't equate to trolling, as they for the most part want B&O to succeed.  

And to the extent some of the critique can be too pointed, well i'd say that some of the serial defenders of B&O can also appear as too accepting, too unwilling to question. Over-reaction exists both ways.

Some of the criticism that gets posted is confused though - it too easily mixes up broader industry issues / shifts with company specific problems.

And for those with a lot invested, i.e. a broad B&O infrastructure at home, there are serious questions about what one would do if everything disappeared and you had to start an infrastructure build again.

In the case of the Edge, the reaction has been fine, if a bit muted, but nothing more. The Android TV's were a disaster, and were rightly panned. The Eclipse prompted a whole other debate about genesis, but less about design. The Edge seems to have been received fine - perhaps not with rapture, but fine. 

I'm sure it will sound plenty good enough, and i'll certainly go and have a listen and look, even though i'd have preferred their efforts focussed elsewhere.

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 9:58 AM

To summarise - it's not the done thing to criticise without seeing or hearing but it is OK to love it unconditionally.

Ban boring signatures!

Duels
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Duels replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 10:01 AM
Puncher:

To summarise - it's not the done thing to criticise without seeing or hearing but it is OK to love it unconditionally.

Ban boring signatures!

Alternatively, it’s not done to appreciate in any way the new stuff B&O are bringing out, only to hark back to days gone by.

Depends on your viewpoint.
moxxey
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moxxey replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 10:57 AM

BenSA:

It doesn't but there does seem to be utter disbelief from some posters that there are people that like it, as if we aren't able to comprehend what we are dealing with, almost like people who like it are deficient in some way and its said in multiple posts by the same people. 

No it's not - we should be big enough to understand the difference. Just because someone says they aren't sure about the style, doesn't mean you can't make your own mind up....unless you *are* influenced by what other people think and it makes you question your own judgement.

The reason we can afford Bang & Olufsen is because most of us are fairly savvy in life. Therefore that enables to make our own purchasing decisions.

For me, the Edge is interesting, but I'm not keen on the amount of metal and it won't fit in the style of my home - that's the main reason I wouldn't consider one.

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 11:38 AM

Duels:
Puncher:

 

To summarise - it's not the done thing to criticise without seeing or hearing but it is OK to love it unconditionally.

 

Ban boring signatures!

 

 

Alternatively, it’s not done to appreciate in any way the new stuff B&O are bringing out, only to hark back to days gone by.

 

Depends on your viewpoint.

And yet B&O themselves seem here to be "harking back to days gone by"!

I'm actually on record as saying I like it but will almost certainly never own one because of the orientation/placement challenges.

My point was that I don't understand the view that you aren't allowed to not like it!

Ban boring signatures!

BenSA
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BenSA replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 12:48 PM

Point is if you don't, like it say it. explain why and then don't say it again. Some people say they like it then they move on, they don't repost again how much they like it. When you see in the flesh then yes you can say I have seen it, I still don't like it. The part that irritates people is that they say it over and over again from just seeing a picture of it. 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 1:05 PM

There is back and forth from both critical posters and defensive posters alike. 

Surely there are bigger things in life to get irritated by.

And again, so what if there was a bit of mocking earlier ?- it was directed not at the design per se, but more that it wasn't that unique.

And again, i think its reception has been fine in the main. People may have questions about its use case, but thats a different thing.

And if its the tone of comments that irks, then saying things like "don't say it again" i would suggest are just as bad.

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 2:01 PM

Well, historically, the person who points out the Emperor is naked is never appreciated. But I agree with the points above, why does your enjoyment or acceptance of something depend so much on no one saying they don't like it? Many of us make our decisions regardless of external input, personally I don't care what anyone says about my likes or purchases.

Also said which is spot on, it's not OK to dislike without "actually seeing it" but it's OK to fawn over it without having seen it? Crying

 

Jeff

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CB
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CB replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 4:31 PM
Leo

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leosgonewild
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I pop myself the old school way, but feel free to send me a pack Stick out tongue
Stan
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Stan replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 4:57 PM

I wasn't going to comment because this is the internet so expectations of polite conversation are as old and worn as the pipe and slippers many of us supposedly use while listening to our overpriced sound systems.  However, since the topic has come up, IMHO, comments like 'the "true believer" bobbleheads' and "Emperor is naked" border on trolling.  They can be construed as derogatory to those who do not share this opinion.  Then again, we can draw our own opinions about those who repeatedly throw this shade and act accordingly (laugh it off).

I don't like the Edge because of what I see as its awkward placement options, but that doesn't mean those who like it are idiots (as some seem to imply).  Live and let live.  Why rain on others' parades (especially since this is a site whose purpose just might be to foster the occasional "B&O parade")? 

Do you *really* believe B&O is reading this site and saying "Darn! there's some posters on Beoworld who really don't like the Edge, I guess we'll really have to try harder next time!"; therefore, we, the level-headed critics, need to crank up the criticism of all things B&O (including targeting the silly people who have been brainwashed into liking the product) so B&O will change its ways?!? 

leosgonewild
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Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 6:05 PM

If you're allowed to say you like it then you're equally allowed to say you don't!

Taking exception to someone who disagrees with you (no matter how frequently) isn't going to change his mind or anyone elses and tends only to aggravate the "My stick is bigger than your stick" type arguments.

Just let people dislike it if they wish!

Ban boring signatures!

leosgonewild
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Emil Jensen
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Stan:

I wasn't going to comment because this is the internet so expectations of polite conversation are as old and worn as the pipe and slippers many of us supposedly use while listening to our overpriced sound systems.  However, since the topic has come up, IMHO, comments like 'the "true believer" bobbleheads' and "Emperor is naked" border on trolling.  They can be construed as derogatory to those who do not share this opinion.  Then again, we can draw our own opinions about those who repeatedly throw this shade and act accordingly (laugh it off).

I don't like the Edge because of what I see as its awkward placement options, but that doesn't mean those who like it are idiots (as some seem to imply).  Live and let live.  Why rain on others' parades (especially since this is a site whose purpose just might be to foster the occasional "B&O parade")? 

Do you *really* believe B&O is reading this site and saying "Darn! there's some posters on Beoworld who really don't like the Edge, I guess we'll really have to try harder next time!"; therefore, we, the level-headed critics, need to crank up the criticism of all things B&O (including targeting the silly people who have been brainwashed into liking the product) so B&O will change its ways?!? 

Could not agree more, it seems that some people really want to convert those who like the new B&O product, not every product is perfect and a lot of problems have been the case for many years now. But this is a fan forum so I have a hard time understanding why people need to be extremely critic over and over again. If the brand is not for you anymore why keep coming here? It is fine to critic but many treads about the new products are covert by negative comments from people there have no experience with the product one example is the Eclipse, which have been said it was overpriced, and yes that argument I expect over at avforums but from people who have spend much more on less stellar products as BV7(Value wise) I would expect have deeper inside then just saying the Eclipse is a LG C7 priced x7 

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 7:08 PM

I criticised the Eclipse, having played with it for numerous hours, so i wouldn't over generalise.

And i did not to convert anyone who liked it or bought it.

And many of those who critiqued it did not say it was just a more costly C7 - the critique was more than that, which you should know, and i think you do.

God, even the Flatpanels review used some quite harsh language ( and yes their overall score was high, but they don't account for value as a metric)

But your comment that the criticism was "just saying the Eclipse is a LG c7 *7" - very instructive.

Of course I'm with you about the use of language, no need for provocation.

 

 

 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 7:14 PM
leogoeswild:

Are those the rose colored glasses needed to see the Edge design as something special? Stick out tongueBig Smile

Jeff

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Emil Jensen
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Sandyb:

I criticised the Eclipse, having played with it for numerous hours, so i wouldn't over generalise.

And i did not to convert anyone who liked it or bought it.

And many of those who critiqued it did not say it was just a more costly C7 - the critique was more than that, which you should know, and i think you do.

God, even the Flatpanels review used some quite harsh language ( and yes their overall score was high, but they don't account for value as a metric)

But your comment that the criticism was "just saying the Eclipse is a LG c7 *7" - very instructive.

Of course I'm with you about the use of language, no need for provocation.

 

 

 

Hi Sandyb 

Nothing I wrote is minded on you in any way, or at least I have not noticed you as I describe, and yes I put the line up very black and white which the world isn't. Many here that sometimes a critic are also is very constructive and not as I describe. I am not pointing out all who have said something negative that would not be fair and my post is not meant in that way.

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 7:18 PM

I'd also offer this - let's all just resist the instinct to be over sensitive.

I was in Harrods last year looking at their fine watches, and tried on a serious watch-heads watch - an A Lange Soehne Datagraph. 

The other customer in the boutique, also interested in trying on the same piece, was a middle aged but obviously wealthy business man type.

As i took off my watch, a Richard Mille, he laughed at me, and said " you know that's not a serious thing, it's a toy, a gimmick", and was pretty scathing about my pride and joy. The thing is, who cares?, and he was actually being fairly rude to me. I am fully aware of what hard-core watch people think of Richard Mille as a brand, but it didnt bother me - i get a value from it that doesnt work for them. 

Point being, take a breath - forums mean debate, which inevitably involve some critique. Ignore the provocative language, but its worth engaging with the substance when there some.  

 

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Kiran replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 7:23 PM
You man need to chill... it’s only a round speaker... yes it’s from B&O and I love it... I don’t care if it sounds “much better”... it will sound good...

I love B&O. I would float the Edge on any one of my home pillars just because of the look...

I would do the same with a BL3500 and never use it... I love the look of B&O...

🍕

Regards

Kiran

Born in NL; I ride ML

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 7:25 PM

I know, thanks - i would just remember that even for the fiercer critics - they'd love nothing more, really, than a suite of absolutely compelling products form B&O.

They just see a company struggling with direction and execution - which are genuine questions.

Speaking personally, i'd be mortified if the company no longer existed - i have a spectacular setup, which while costly, is better than anything i could have achieved from any mainstream channel.  

Worries me a bit that if i needed to replace the whole lot, i'd struggle with the current offering - but times change, and i hope some path can be found to maintain an identity and product suite over the next 10 years or so. That is a bridge i don't need to cross right now.

Anyway, looking forward to actually having a look at the Edge in November.

 

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 7:35 PM

Emil Jensen:
Could not agree more, it seems that some people really want to convert those who like the new B&O product, not every product is perfect and a lot of problems have been the case for many years now. But this is a fan forum so I have a hard time understanding why people need to be extremely critic over and over again. If the brand is not for you anymore why keep coming here? It is fine to critic but many treads about the new products are covert by negative comments from people there have no experience with the product one example is the Eclipse, which have been said it was overpriced, and yes that argument I expect over at avforums but from people who have spend much more on less stellar products as BV7(Value wise) I would expect have deeper inside then just saying the Eclipse is a LG C7 priced x7 

Many of those people will have been fans and owners of B&O equipment (note I didn't say "brand", I don't understand being a brand fan) over a much longer period than yourself and in that time will have seen some stellar products, some "meh" products and the occasional dog. Not every new release can be a BL8000 (the BL18 wasn't). 

As the Beoplay moniker has now gone, now is an important time for new "real B&O" releases, they really do need to be B&O and as such will be judged against the past "bar-setting" product.

I say again, if they don't like what they see then they can say so.

Ban boring signatures!

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 8:12 PM

Sandyb:

I know, thanks - i would just remember that even for the fiercer critics - they'd love nothing more, really, than a suite of absolutely compelling products form B&O.

They just see a company struggling with direction and execution - which are genuine questions.

Speaking personally, i'd be mortified if the company no longer existed - i have a spectacular setup, which while costly, is better than anything i could have achieved from any mainstream channel.  

Worries me a bit that if i needed to replace the whole lot, i'd struggle with the current offering - but times change, and i hope some path can be found to maintain an identity and product suite over the next 10 years or so. That is a bridge i don't need to cross right now.

Anyway, looking forward to actually having a look at the Edge in November.

 

An astute observation, as were your comments on watch shopping above. One of the problems with "brand" or "lifestyle" products is that too often people seem to get their own sense of self worth and identity tied up in owning the "right" thing. (Remember the Rolling Stones "He can't be a man because he does not smoke the same cigarettes as me") Your response to the watch snob is a good one and one which I've always had. Your not liking it affects me in no way. Honestly, I've seen people get more bent out of shape over things like this than they would if you shot their dog.

And since this seems to have become more of a meta-discussion...there are a number of people who participate here who make comments that are just as annoying and insulting but in a more passive aggressive manner, as if that makes it any better. They are usually the ones who when called on it will overreact and look for a safe space. I swear, I've been online in one form or another since the tail end of ARPAnet and the lead in to Usenet, and 99.9 percent of the things I've seen would make some people here curl up on the floor in a fetal position sucking their thumbs.

Like you I am pretty heavily invested in B&O gear, from the more classic era. When B&O makes a product I find useful, I still use it and will say good things about it. My wife's H6 headphones still rock, my Beolit 15, while not the single most stunning looking product, is nicer looking than most of the competition, and I enjoy using it as the modern equivalent of a classic Beolit radio. I still use and enjoy my A3. But, sadly, B&O has struggled mightily of late, and is not really doing that well in comparison with the past. I find no product that makes me react as I did when I first saw the BS9000. As for naysayers, you wouldn't believe the number of people who have commented to me over the years, why did you spend that much on a CD changer, I paid 100 bucks for mine?

As for Beoworld in general, sadly I know three ex-dealers (who were hosed by B&O in a manner which, over and above the products of late, made me lose great respect for B&O). Anyway, they refer, and did before they went under, as Beowhine. Not because of those of us who point out the problems either. The comment was made that B&O isn't watching us and taking us seriously, no kidding Sherlock! From what I've seen with my dealer friends, they don't listen to anyone, especially not the dealers, I think they live in an echo chamber.

Jeff

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leosgonewild
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 8:25 PM

So  here is an interesting comparison when it comes to dealers.

My local B&O dealer is doing a big refurb of his shop (actually moving to a better spot in the same area), and he is bearing the cost.

Contrast to this - near me there are a bunch of high (and just below) kitchen showrooms / stores. I got mine from one of these some years back, and i popped in last week for a chat.  He is refurbishing his showroom as well, and the German brand who he retails, are contributing 50% of the cost of the refurb. Of course he must have small issues dealing with them generally, but that's tremendous support from a brand to a dealer. I found that rather heart warming, especially given he operates in a pretty competitive segment. 

 

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Jeff replied on Tue, Sep 11 2018 8:42 PM

That's quite a good thing, the kitchen dealer getting assistance from the manufacturer. My dealer friends all experienced B&O making decisions about displays and stores that they were expected to foot the bill for. Such as, being told to buy a custom display for the Play products back when Play was fairly new, that cost them well over $6000, while at the same time B&O was selling Play products online at discounts, or allowing them to be so sold by others, and expecting the dealer to handle returns for warranty work that they didn't themselves sell but were bought online.

I expect a premium product to treat their dealers, most especially if it's an allegedly restricted group trained to provide premium service, better than Sanyo treats the Walmarts and such of the world.

But I digress.

Jeff

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Sandyb:

Anyway, looking forward to actually having a look at the Edge in November.

Best statement for pages.

MM

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poodleboy replied on Wed, Sep 12 2018 12:14 AM

Emil Jensen:

Stan:

I wasn't going to comment because this is the internet so expectations of polite conversation are as old and worn as the pipe and slippers many of us supposedly use while listening to our overpriced sound systems.  However, since the topic has come up, IMHO, comments like 'the "true believer" bobbleheads' and "Emperor is naked" border on trolling.  They can be construed as derogatory to those who do not share this opinion.  Then again, we can draw our own opinions about those who repeatedly throw this shade and act accordingly (laugh it off).

I don't like the Edge because of what I see as its awkward placement options, but that doesn't mean those who like it are idiots (as some seem to imply).  Live and let live.  Why rain on others' parades (especially since this is a site whose purpose just might be to foster the occasional "B&O parade")? 

Do you *really* believe B&O is reading this site and saying "Darn! there's some posters on Beoworld who really don't like the Edge, I guess we'll really have to try harder next time!"; therefore, we, the level-headed critics, need to crank up the criticism of all things B&O (including targeting the silly people who have been brainwashed into liking the product) so B&O will change its ways?!? 

Could not agree more, it seems that some people really want to convert those who like the new B&O product, not every product is perfect and a lot of problems have been the case for many years now. But this is a fan forum so I have a hard time understanding why people need to be extremely critic over and over again. If the brand is not for you anymore why keep coming here? It is fine to critic but many treads about the new products are covert by negative comments from people there have no experience with the product one example is the Eclipse, which have been said it was overpriced, and yes that argument I expect over at avforums but from people who have spend much more on less stellar products as BV7(Value wise) I would expect have deeper inside then just saying the Eclipse is a LG C7 priced x7 

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Emil, with all due respect, and I truly mean that, you clearly stated you had access to the test product 2 years ago. That makes you and anyone of your ilk special and suggests some amount of bias. Check the mirror before you make ad-hominem attacks. Bad form. 

Not every product is perfect? What a statement. Then fix the damn thing. 

In November I hope to see many Edges sticking out from the walls of cool spaces, with customers thrilled with the performance and presence. Then this conversation will disappear into the ether. 

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Jeff replied on Wed, Sep 12 2018 2:16 AM

And dents in their foreheads from smacking into them. Stick out tongue

Jeff

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Howzit replied on Thu, Sep 13 2018 8:20 AM
BenSA:

......there does seem to be utter disbelief from some posters that there are people that like it, as if we aren't able to comprehend what we are dealing with, almost like people who like it are deficient in some way and its said in multiple posts by the same people........

I think this sort of illustrates the issue. People are bashing or liking the Edge, I haven’t seen anybody bashing anybody else, until something like this is said. Those ranting about the edge, are doing just that, ranting or raving about the edge.

How one feels about a person’s post, is primarily one’s own feelings, created by themselves, since the post was directed towards an object, in this case, the edge.

I’m not sure where, how, or why the leap is made from an object to a person. I haven’t seen any usernames named “Beosound Edge” or “The Edge”, or “Edge” whom which I might understand taking offense.

I shall return to the subject at hand, the edge. I have to admit, when one looks at the A9, BS1, BS2, BS8, they all have one thing in common, an attempt to be different to what is out there. I feel like you could walk past an Edge if it was say, a shoe store or something. But I would stop and wonder what on earth the Beosound 2 was. It’s peculiarity would provoke an inquisitive look. I have found this to be true of a lot of B&O products, but, the product range in recent years has somewhat been heading towards less thought provoking design, to.... well... I’m not even sure what exactly...

Over the years, some B&O products have been ugly, but their intention is obvious; either they were shooting for utter performance beyond what was suppose to be possible within a framework, or, a daring a bold move on design, (think, reimagining the way you live with sound ;) ) enough to bear a hallmark of reputation; either famous or infamous.

Now, the edge sort of... rolls off one’s shoulder of opinion.

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Barry Santini
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Reaction to the aesthetic design of the Edge reminds me if the first 5 year reaction to the ‘plainness’ of the WTC towers. Now how do you feel about them?
Aussie Michael
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Most designs are polarising. That always causes debate. And discussion about the product. So that’s a good thing.

Art is supposed to be polarising in my opinion. Not always “beautiful” or “Hollywood”.
leosgonewild
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Opposed to the WTC towers, the Edge will be forgotten in a few years.

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Sorry, that might come of as offensive. That was not my intensions. My apologies.

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