I need a little help deciding weather to use my Beolab 9s as part of the surround sound for the TV, or put them in my bedroom or office and use them as good music/stereo speakers. Im trying to make the best use of their potential, as I am fortunate enough to have acquired a pair. (I also acquired two sets of BL 8000s and a set of BL 6000, of which I need to sell one set or another as a compromise with the wife)
Iv been wondering how much audio is played out of the front Left and Right channels in a surround sound setup, when considering that the AV surround processing tries to give a lot of work to the center channel. From my understanding, AV processing will try to put most of the dialogue to the center channel, along with other central sounds.
We have seen questions on the forum, on people asking what speakers to get, it would appear that less financial emphasis is put on back channels, and even slightly less for left and right surround. The idea being that these are just more sound effects to help with scene emersion, rather than essential channels up front.
My question is, if one were to use... say, Beolab 9s, for front left and right channels, are these speakers wasted, as the AV processor is only sending miscellaneous sounds, while the vital stuff, (dialogue, central scene sounds) is intentionally being isolated and not sent to all these speakers, sparing that sound only for the front channel?
Conversely, is that reason to persue an ever better center channel than one originally might be thinking? So, in my case, I was considering Beolab 4000s as centers, ought I be considering Beolab 3s instead, if only to make full use of the Beolab 9s in that the center is "measuring up"?
Or am I mistaken? Is more sound than one might think sent to the front left and right channels? With a good quality pre-amp, CD player, or Gramophone player, I could setup a nice music station that will make full use of two speakers in simple stereo. On the other-hand, my whole family watches TV/Movies daily, so the BL9s will physically be made full use of, if not full potential use of.
Any thoughts on what I might consider?
Chris
Beolab 9 | Beolab 8000 | Beolab 6000 | Beolab 2 | Beolab 3 | Beosound 9000 | Beoplay A9 | Beomaster 8000 | Beovox M75, / S75, / S45.2
Howzit:I also acquired two sets of BL 8000s and a set of BL 6000, of which I need to sell one set or another as a compromise with the wife
Duels:My advice in situations like this is to think carefully about which speakers you prefer and then reluctantly sell the wife.
Since you are not telling us which tv/soundprocessor (or BV) you are using, it will be hard to give any exact advice!
Are you upmixing (tv programmes etc in 2 channel/stereo) or are you using the native multi channel sound when avaiable???
Generally no speaker in a proper multi channel setup is wasted - all channels are there for a reason.
If you really need the 9’s in your bedroom, then go for it and use the 8000 with the tv.
Otherweise - the 9’s are mighty L/R speakers in a 5 channel setup!
Don’t you listen to music/2.0/stereo in that room?
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Millemissen: Generally no speaker in a proper multi channel setup is wasted - all channels are there for a reason. MM
Hi Howzit,
I agree with MM, good speakers are never wasted!
I would say the key question to ask is "which room is the priority"? If you really enjoy listening to music in the bedroom and this makes up the majority of your listening time, then the answer is simple - put the best speakers there.
If your viewing choices are generally dialogue based (eg. news broadcasts), then a centre speaker alone is probably fine. For full-on action movies, adding front and rear surround speakers and a subwoofer will transform the viewing experience by spreading the sound around you instead of focusing it from the TV position.
Or if you are unsure, why not try the Beolab 9s in each room in turn and see where you like them best?
Kind regards, Steve.
Steve.
www.soundsheavenly.com
Sounds Heavenly are proud to sponsor BeoWorld!
BeoNut since '75
Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-6 (Center), Beolab 8000 (Fronts and Rears) and Beolab 2. Screen: Panasonic TX-P65STW60Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab Penta 2 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears) and Beolab 2. Projector: Sony VPL-HW55Home Office: Beovision 10-40 on STB Bracket wall mount masterlinked to Beosound 9000 MK3 on horizontal wall bracket driving Beolab 5000 SpeakersBedroom: Loewe TV with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all White)In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).
kallasr:Check Beolab 7-1/2/4/6 for center channel.
Perhaps a bad habit but works for me.
I find that soundbars (Avant 55 and Eclipse 65) are significantly inferior when you have BL5 or BL90 as outer L/R channels and can produce their own phantom Centre channel.
I tend to kill sound bar L/R completely and I’m very careful on when the sound bar Centre is switched on. It’s not always perfect. Some broadcasters don’t know their A’s from their E’s and sound - particularly vocals gets muddied.
I’ve stabilized my home theater system with BL 8000 up front, BL 6000 as surround, a MLogan sub, driven through a Yamaha AVR. I lived with 4.1 for several years, letting the AVR create a phantom center channel. Recently put a single BL 4000 as a real center channel, and glad that I did. Dialog is much sharper, and 5.1 channel music is transformed (e.g. Steven Wilson remixes of prog rock bands.). The BL 4000 seemed the natural choice, as its likely to closely match the 8000s in the mid-and upper ranges.
Ikd use the BL 9s
Regards
Kiran
Born in NL; I ride ML
Howzit:Thank you for all your feedback. I picked up a Beolab 2 today. Iv read that it doesn’t really help BL9s, and I think Iv read that some B&O processing doesn’t even bother to send LFE signals to the BL2 when you select BL9. I am however intending to use a non B&O AV processor, so the LFE with not consider the BL9, thus, I’m hoping, full LFE will be sent to the BL2.
I picked up a Beolab 2 today.
Iv read that it doesn’t really help BL9s, and I think Iv read that some B&O processing doesn’t even bother to send LFE signals to the BL2 when you select BL9.
I am however intending to use a non B&O AV processor, so the LFE with not consider the BL9, thus, I’m hoping, full LFE will be sent to the BL2.
In that case (if the bas management is done correct in that A/V processor) your BL9’s will sound pretty weak.
As I’ve written before - you could do the same in a BSys4-based (B&O) audio processor, if you wanted to change the default settings.
But why the heck would someone want to redirect bas from two more capable subwoofers (in the BL9’s) to one (in the BL9)?
By the way - a common non B&O A/V processor can never know, what the BL9’s are capable of.
Mostly they just have a rudimentary choice between small or big speakers (for the fronts).
(Almost) everyone here will tell you to get a proper center speaker - a BL7-4 is one.....especially if you consider the set of BL9.
P.S. Setting up a BL2 with the BL8000’s is different than using BL2 as LFE channel with an A/V processor.
elephant:I am truly puzzled. I always thought that a subwoofer was goodness. Sure things change and get smarter. And yes the BeoLab 2 is now 17 years. Here is the BL2’s specs from the BeoWorld product section ..... Maximum Sound Pressure Level 110 dB (stereo) Power amplifier module 1 unit Class D Long-term maximum output power 850 watts Effective Frequency range* 23 - 120 Hz (upper limit determined by setup) Cabinet principle Double balanced passive radiator system Magnetically shielded Yes Woofer Passive radiator 1 x 250 mm flat diaphragm 2 x 250 mm flat diaphragm Net volume 13 litre Here are the BL9’s relevant specifications ..... Power amplifier, bass 400W, 4 ohm, class D ICEpower Crossover frequency 180/2000 Hz Cabinet principle Closed box Net volume, bass 18 litres Magnetically shielded No. Must be placed > 50cm from picture tube Woofer 10" / 250mm cone To me it seems that the addition of the BL2 would (significantly?) extend the system’s bass. Or are we discussing value for money ? Yes, there is more oompf but is the addition worth the extra money ? Or is the case being made that the extra money returns better value when being spent on a dedicate, tunes, made for purpose centre dedicated speaker ?
I always thought that a subwoofer was goodness.
Sure things change and get smarter.
And yes the BeoLab 2 is now 17 years.
Here is the BL2’s specs from the BeoWorld product section .....
Maximum Sound Pressure Level 110 dB (stereo)
Power amplifier module 1 unit Class D
Long-term maximum output power 850 watts
Effective Frequency range* 23 - 120 Hz (upper limit determined by setup)
Cabinet principle Double balanced passive radiator system
Magnetically shielded Yes
Woofer Passive radiator 1 x 250 mm flat diaphragm
2 x 250 mm flat diaphragm
Net volume 13 litre
Here are the BL9’s relevant specifications .....
Power amplifier, bass 400W, 4 ohm, class D ICEpower
Crossover frequency 180/2000 Hz
Cabinet principle Closed box
Net volume, bass 18 litres
Magnetically shielded No. Must be placed > 50cm from picture tube
Woofer 10" / 250mm cone
To me it seems that the addition of the BL2 would (significantly?) extend the system’s bass.
Or are we discussing value for money ?
Yes, there is more oompf but is the addition worth the extra money ?
Or is the case being made that the extra money returns better value when being spent on a dedicate, tunes, made for purpose centre dedicated speaker ?
Going back a few years - actually about 5 and a bit - time flies - when I purchased my new Beolab 9's and the V1-40 TV, I was astonished, but also a little concerned about the very prodigious bass the Beolab 9's are capable of on movie LFE, such that I was concerned about potential over driving and damage on such heavy bass to the Lab 9's bass drivers.
Consequently I enquired here about the functioning of the ABL circuit, to which Geoff Martin very kindly responded.
Between the BL2 and the BL9 as regards bass, as I best recall, he stated at the time that one BL 9 was broadly equal to a BL 2 - but that the BL 2 could play a little lower and louder in the bass than the BL9; however with the BL 9 there are two of them...as against one BL2 typically in an AV setup.
I also notice in the setup configuration table in the AV processor manual for the V1-40, that in connecting an BL2, no bass will be sent to it from the BL9's in the standard configuration setup.
In fact, the only speaker that you can connect in respect to standard configuration which will result in bass being redirected from the BL 9, would be a Beolab 5, or of course the later BL50 or 90.
From this one would assume that as the principlel of bass redirection is to divert system bass and LFE to the most capable speakers in the system, is that the processing table 'knows' that the Bass from a pair of BL 9's is 'sufficient' such as to obviate need for redirection to a BL2.
Of course you can play with the settings to make this happen, but otherwise the standard B&O configuration is as described above re BL9's and BL2 with a B&O TV/processor.
I have heard better bass than my BL9s in an AV setup, as in better able to play to true infrasonic frequencies, and at near Dolby reference levels with it - however, to better the BL9s, IMO one is talking either the newer Beolab 20's, the previous BL5's, the newer BL50's or BL90's, OR purchase a dedicated high performance sub such as the SVS, JL Audio Fathom, Velodyne, and M&K models I've heard, - but for which we're also talking a significant price to get that performance - i.e. A$7,000 and up - or nearly half the price of say a set of Beolab 20s.
The subs I've mentioned and heard are phenomenal performers when we're talking their top of the range models; but then so are the Beolab speakers, and I know which I'd prefer as an overall purchase to live with in the home and for ease of setup and integration, from both an performance and aesthetic point of view.
Best regards
John..
John:I have heard better bass than my BL9s in an AV setup, as in better able to play to true infrasonic frequencies, and at near Dolby reference levels with it - however, to better the BL9s, IMO one is talking either the newer Beolab 20's, the previous BL5's, the newer BL50's or BL90's, OR purchase a dedicated high performance sub such as the SVS, JL Audio Fathom, Velodyne, and M&K models I've heard, - but for which we're also talking a significant price to get that performance - i.e. A$7,000 and up - or nearly half the price of say a set of Beolab 20s.
Howzit:I wanted to pose this though... In regards to us saying the BL9 (or such speaker) “can reproduce better bass since there are two woofers, against 1”, let’s remember, the BL9s (or such speaker) set to front left and front right, is only producing bass for those channels. AV systems send bass, or more specifically, LFEs to a BL2 (or any subwoofer) for ALL channels. So if you have a guy with a deep voice speaking, his lower tones will be sent to the BL2 from the CENTER channel, if there is a large spaceship flying overhead, the lower tones will be sent to the BL2 from the REAR or SURROUND channels etc. So I’m not sure if assuming not having a BL2, simply because one has a set of BL9s, is having a better setup, since BL9s will only be playing bass from their own channel, and not necessarily stepping in to aid other channels such as surround, or surround rears. Am I off “bass” here?
In regards to us saying the BL9 (or such speaker) “can reproduce better bass since there are two woofers, against 1”, let’s remember, the BL9s (or such speaker) set to front left and front right, is only producing bass for those channels.
AV systems send bass, or more specifically, LFEs to a BL2 (or any subwoofer) for ALL channels. So if you have a guy with a deep voice speaking, his lower tones will be sent to the BL2 from the CENTER channel, if there is a large spaceship flying overhead, the lower tones will be sent to the BL2 from the REAR or SURROUND channels etc.
So I’m not sure if assuming not having a BL2, simply because one has a set of BL9s, is having a better setup, since BL9s will only be playing bass from their own channel, and not necessarily stepping in to aid other channels such as surround, or surround rears.
Am I off “bass” here?
I’d say yes you are - if we consider the AV solution, that B&O offers.
Have a look here
http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2013/12/13/bo-tech-what-are-subwoofers-really-for/
and here for deeper insight:
https://www.bang-olufsen.com/~/mediaV3/Files/user-guides/Technical-sound-guide/Technical-Sound-Guide-1701.pdf
What we are aiming at here is the function called ‘bass redirection’
The AV processor in the BSys4-based products has a socalled 2 channel bass management
and is able to redirect bass to and from any loudspeaker in the setup.
This of course has to be meaningfull - thus the default values that you can find in the table displayed there.
However you can tweak to whatever you want and how you want - in the advanced settings.
Trying things out is better than just talking about them!
For other AV processors with just basic setup possibilities this might be different.
Bas is the most difficult part of a sound signal to control.
For the guys in Struer is was important that their AV processor knows the exact values of the speakers connected to the setup.....
.....including the center channel.
I made a somewhat longer post - but that went straight into moderation....for whatever reason???
We’ll see if it turnes up here at some point.
May basic answer is - yes, you are of bass ——- at least when it comes to a modern (BSys4-based) AV processor.
Temporarily using a pair of Beolab 8000 for center speaker. I also have a pair of Beolab 6000 ill try out. These, as a reminder, are currently paired up to a set of Beolab 9 for LEFT and RIGHT channels up front.
Really waiting to conclude what center channel to ultimately end up with. The 7.4 is sounding like the right choice... however the madness of having a pair of BL8000 is a fun try out right now.
It seems to me that the Beolab 7.4 is pretty much the Beolab 3. Same driver size, same tweeter size, both have ALT, and both have the same amplifier rating. For all intensive purposes it looks like the same speaker in a different cabinet... is this true? If it is, aesthetically, the Beolab 3 would fit the bill better for me... any thoughts on this?
Howzit:A little update.... Iv been using a pair of Beolab 8000s as a Centre channel, running through a Beolab 2.
Iv been using a pair of Beolab 8000s as a Centre channel, running through a Beolab 2.
That’s a lot of ‘stuff’ for a center channel.
The 8000’s must be in the way, when the screen is on - or are they placed horizontically under the screen?
leogoeswild:Do you get much low tones from your center channel? What is the rest of the setup at the moment?
Millemissen:That’s a lot of ‘stuff’ for a center channel. The 8000’s must be in the way, when the screen is on - or are they placed horizontically under the screen? MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Howzit:whatever would cut it for me, after hearing what a real full range setup sounds like. Unless it’s two BL-4s...