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BeoVision 11 (Story developing)

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KMA
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KMA replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 2:31 PM

beocool:

Great review Yes - thumbs up How does the sound compare to B&O speakers? For instance the Beolab 4000's?

Thanks beocool,

I've yet to do some serious music listening with BV11, and as it happens, BeoLab 4000s are (apart from BL9 and BL5) the only BeoLab speakers I haven't had the pleasure of owning. But I'll be sure to comment on the sound compared to BeoLab 3, which I have now, and BeoPlay A8. Also, I can still remember the excellent sound of Avant, which I had for years, so that's something to compare to.

KMA

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Paul W replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 2:33 PM

Really looking forward to your further reviews KMA.  Really nice reads :)

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KMA replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 2:38 PM

gennaro:

Simply awesome write up! Been hooked on this thread since it started... lol luv it!

I do have one curious question.... How would the Beovision 11 image compare with say a late 2009 Beovision 4-65...?  

I haven't spent any time with BeoVision 4-65; I've only had a couple of auditions of the BV12-65. So I cannot make a specific comparison, I can only speak of some generally acknowlegded facts.

Comparing Plasma and LCD is a bit like speaking of apples and oranges. The two technologies have very distinctive characteristics: plasma screens are not as bright as LCDs, even though the newest plasma models are getting brighter and better in this regard. Plasma screens tend to have a softer image (some say more natural), whereas LCDs can appear sharper with more "in-your-face" colours. Some argue LCDs have a more artificial image. Contrast has generally been better with plasma, but not so much anymore with new LCDs, such as BV11. 

I can say that you would have a notably different viewing experience with BV11 than you do with BV4, for the reasons above. I do also need to point out that in 3-4 years, both plasma and LCD have made advances in picture quality. You might find that a new BV11 is a lot better than BV4 from 2009. The gap in age between the two models makes the comparison in my mind biased towards BV11.

What I like about BV11 is the sound and the TV itself being more of a compact, complete package. The design is superb as is the audio from the TV alone. With my requirements for a setup, those are important factors. 

Another point of reference: a friend of mine has the latest Panasonic plasma, an award-winning and appraised screen. When I saw it, while I still had BV10, I pretty much marvelled at the Panasonic's picture: depth, shadow detail and overall contrast.

Now that I have BV11, with better image depth, shadow detailing, contrast and color reproduction, I don't find myself fancying the Panasonic plasma anymore. And as BV12 uses the same panel as my friend's plasma, I'd say LCD has catched up with plasma big time with the BeoVision 11.

I think you would benefit from comparing BV12 and BV11 in a shop. If you liked the BV11 better, then it would be a no-brainer to switch from BV4 to BV11, if that is something you are considering.

KMA

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KMA replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 3:06 PM

Follow-up, part III

Adventures in picture adjustments

In part II, I covered much of the sound setup process and options. I spent most of Sunday tweaking the picture, and this is what I discovered. Some of you might find this information and my "optimal settings" useful when getting a BV11:

Picture Setup

Note that most of the settings I refer to are made at the deepest level of the picture adjustment menus: PICTURE -> PICTURE ADJUSTMENT -> ADVANCED SETTINGS -> ADJUST TV (BLU-RAY, MAC MINI, APPLE TV). These deep-level adjustments always only affect the active source you are watching, so you need to do these source by source. That's great, actually, as these don't make any settings universal for all sources.

Interestingly, and on the contrary, any adjustments made on the first level, PICTURE -> PICTURE ADJUSTMENT affect all sources. What's even more interesting, these include Brightness, Contrast and Colour, which are separate from the settings with the  very same names on the deeper, source-specific level.

For Television:

Picture Mode: Adaptive.

Sharpness: depending on how soft images you like, this should be between 0 and 32. At 32, it brings artefacts to SD content, which some of you have seen in the shops. At 0, I found the image to be too soft, losing some detail I felt should have been there, so I've settled at the value of 12. It doesn't over-sharpen SD content, and it in fact makes 720p HD broadcasts (the standard resolution of HD channels at the moment) a bit sharper, which benefited the 720p HD images. They looked even more high-def.

Noise reduction I set to 0 (the default was 32) as any other value brought unwanted artefacts and removed fine detail that I prefer to have in the picture.

Contrast Enhancement actually crushes shadow detail; this was easy to determine with Lagom's and Digital Video Essentials' test patterns. At the default value of 32, many near-black colors where pitch black, while they should have been various shades of really dark grey. In my experiments, Contrast Enhancement is best at 0 (or at least below 10).

For Mac Mini:

Picture Mode: Game

First, I should point out that I do not use Mac Mini at a Full-HD resolution, which is the default resolution with HDMI. Due to my viewing distance, everything would look too small on the screen with 1920 x 1080. So I opted for 1600 x 900, which scales beautifully to the screen, and I even occasionally use 1344 x 756 (a true 16:9 image format available on the BV11 with Mac Mini). My settings are based on these lower-than-Full-HD resolutions, which I've opted for due to viewing comfort.

Sharpness: here, I found the default value of 32 to be the best. Noise reduction I again set to 0, as there is no noise in the computer's images via HDMI. 

If I had Mac Mini with Full-HD resolution, I'd probably set sharpness to 0. You cannot sharpen a 1:1 1920x1080 source with a screen showing the same resolution pixel to pixel. You can improve the look of lower resolutions, though. Again, BV11 does this beautifully with the Sharpness setting. You don't see any haloing or ghosting or shadowing of pixels.

Contrast Enhancement is also at 0, making the BV11 able to produce the full scale from a deep black to near-black greys to near-white whites and a perfect bright white. With Lagom's test pattern, the scale goes from 0 (black) to 255 (white), and there is no clipping at the bright end and very modest, negligible clipping towards black (a couple of close-to-black greys are shown as black). With BeoVision 10, there was notable clipping at both black and white ends. BeoVision 11 on the other hand produces the blackest of greys and lightest of near-whites perfectly.

Refer to these images: 

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php (only shades 1, 2 and 3 vere clipped to black).

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/white.php (only shade 254 was shown as white, others were light shades of grey).

Those results mean only one thing: that's a good LCD panel in BV11!

Apple TV:

Picture Mode: Adaptive

For AppleTV, which is of the 2nd Gen variety and 720p only, I use same settings as for Mac Mini. I won't upgrade to 3rd Gen Full-HD AppleTV until it's jailbroken and FireCore with its myriad of 3rd party apps and extensions can be installed to it.

I use PLEX for AppleTV as my primary videoplayer (it supports .MKV etc; I haven't yet come across a video-format it does not support and play on the AppleTV). PLEX's media server for Mac is the best one out there, in my opinion. It also has great clients for iOS devices (iPhone, iPad).

Blu-Ray:

Picture Mode: Movie

As I have a pretty good Blu-Ray player (Sony's 2011 top model S780), capable of perfect 2D/3D images (in its price category, anyway), any extra processing by the TV is unnecessary. For Blu-Ray, I've determined the optimum values to be:

Sharpness: 0 (off)
Noise reduction: 0 (off)
Contrast Enhancement: 0 (off)


Interestingly, with my player and Digital Video Essentials' HD pluge-test, the default Brightness of 32 on the BeoVision 11 crushed the near-blacks. I had to adjust the Brightness to 36, in Movie mode. It revealed shadow detail that was otherwise missing. Note that this may be player-specific, so test images from other players might lead to a different value for optimal brightness.

If I want to improve the perceived quality of DVDs, I have a Custom Mode in the Blu-Ray player for that. The mode utilizes the player's functions to iron out imperfections in DVD resolution signals on the BV11. I let BV11 to do the upscaling; the player simply tweaks the DVD source signal. 

Other picture setup notes:

With all my sources, Contrast remains at the default value of 32. I'm still undecided with Colour: for TV, lowering the Colour from 32 to 28 produced more natural colours, in my opinion. I felt that with the default value, especially in TV viewing, the colours were slightly over-saturated and therefore popped out too much. Skin tones were what I paid attention to when making the slight adjustment. 

For the TV's backlight, there are 3 power-saving modes

Off -- no power saving, the backlight is at its brightest levels.
Medium -- the backlight is lowered a bit, but according to B&O's instructions, there is no visible effect on the picture, as other parameters in the Video Engine compensate for the slighly lower backlight. This does not adjust any picture adjustment values in the picture menus. Whatever happens, happens in the depths of the Video Engine.
High -- this makes the picture noticeably darker. Not by much, but you can tell the picture is darker. Switch from High to Medium or Off, and you'll see a visible increase in backlight intensity.

I opted for Medium, for green reasons :) And I could swear I like the picture a little better with Medium than the brightest backlight setting (power saving "off"). If any of you find the BV11 too bright, try out picture power saving with the High setting. The picture loses some of its punch, but makes it a little more "plasma-like".

As a result of these settings, I'm even more happier with the BeoVision 11's picture than I was with its out-of-the-box settings. A great picture got better!

My next follow-up will be for 3D (it's awesome, by my initial impressions, but I need to check something more carefully before sharing my thoughts), the Smart TV functions, HDR and Home Media.

KMA

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KMA
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KMA replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 3:08 PM

BeoUndies:

For those eagerly awaiting the next KMA instalment [global tapping of fingers] he txt me last night to say that he his stuck INSIDE the TV.

It seems he got his hands on the service manual and couldn't resist a poke around. Now he can't get out.

But it was a good way to test the 3D capabilities of the screen. A  scrunched up KMA, butt first.. with legs in a knot. Excellent detail from the BV11 panel and processing engine by all accounts.

I know it's modular but I hope the B&O engineers can get him out in one piece...

Full report to follow, no doubt.

Big Smile

KMA

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KMA replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 3:12 PM

koning:

Can it decode all audio formats?

That is unknown to me at this point. I haven't found any information in the manuals, nor in the TV's settings...

 

KMA

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KMA replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 3:15 PM

Flappo:

What's it like for gaming ?

Tue did espouse it's capability after all...

I don't have any gaming consoles (I'm not much of a gamer), so my evaluation of BV11 will be lacking the gaming experience :(

KMA

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KMA replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 4:06 PM

Haver65:

Hi. I just ordered the 46" beovision 11 from the B&O store here in Summit Nj. Due to Hurricane they are having it shipped from Denmark according to the manager there.  I also ordered the motorized floor stand and was wondering if you could tell me what the measurement is from the floor to the top of the TV when it is on the stand.

Thanks..

Hi,

It's 108 cm (42.5 inches / 3.54 ft).

KMA

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IngvarW replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 4:17 PM

Thanks for a really interesting and even exciting review serie.

Did you have the opportunity to listen to both 11-46 and 11-55 in the shop and can judge any difference?

Best regards Ingvar in Sweden

Current; Beosound 2, BV Horizon 48,  2*BL3, BL11, Beolit 12, Beolit 15, Beoplay P6, Beoplay A9, Beoplay H9i

Earlier; BV 10-46, 2*BL3, BM5/BS5, BS9000, BL8000, BV7-32, MX7000, Beoport, Beocord 8000, MX4002, BL2000, Beocom1, Beotalk1200

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markiedee replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 4:25 PM

Hi KMA i look forward to hearing what you think about the picture quality in regards to movies that you have watched so far.

Beoplay A2

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BeoUndies replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 4:25 PM

Very helpful indeed KMA. Particularly with regard to the advanced picture settings for various sources.

I can't wait for my BV11 to arrive. I will try your suggestions, using them as my starting point, rather than the factory default settings.

I suspect a few dealers may do likewise.

Chapeau!

I would be interested to hear your feedback on the sound quality - with and without the Beolab 11.

 

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Paul W replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 5:05 PM

I'm with BeoUndies on this one - a sound quality review is going to be exciting.

KMA, I'm familular with the A8 sound quality, i'm expecting the BV11 to be a lot better sounding - please can you compare the two.  Think your BL3s will of course have an unfair advantage but that's only right :)

Very inspiring reading!

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Flappo replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 7:34 PM

This is rapidly turning out to be the spiritual successor to the avant.

A true word class television. Tue , you done good , kid !

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moxxey replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 9:08 PM

Flappo:

This is rapidly turning out to be the spiritual successor to the avant.

Yes, you can't knock the BV11 in any way. There's really nothing negative about it whatsoever. It's taken all the good stuff the BV10 offered, improved the panel, the audio, the build, added extra sockets and improved picture tweaking/adjustments. Plus reduced the price!

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Paul W replied on Mon, Nov 12 2012 10:40 PM

Totally agree Moxxey and Flappo.  It's probably the most desirable, stylish and classy TV in the World!!! The love child of the Avant - NICE!!!

KMA
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KMA replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 12:11 AM

 

Follow-up, part IV

I've completed my evaluation of the extras, as I like to call them: 3D playback, SmartTV functions, HDR operation and Home Media. These are a mixed bag of goodies, so I'll start with the most impressive ones:

3D performance

For starters, I must say I had my reservations about 3D, thinking of it as a gimmick that I wouldn't probably end up using that much. I've been to the movies a few times to see 3D blockbusters, and I've also demoed 3D televisions, such as the Samsung D8000 and most recently Samsung ES8000. I also had a brief demonstration of Hugo in 3D at my dealer's, on the 55" model, when I was ordering my TV.

B&O uses 3D Glasses of the active type. The glasses won't win any design awards, but what they lack in design, they make up for in comfort. The glasses are light, powered by a small lithium-ion battery, and I can comfortably wear them over my prescription glasses. I've used them with both contact lenses and my eyeglasses, and there was no difference in the 3D experience.

The glasses come with 3 nose pieces, which are easy to attach and remove, but they attach securely nonetheless. There's nothing flimsy about the glasses.

Inserting a 3D blu-ray to my player, BV11 prompts me with a menu to select either 3D or 2D mode. A click on the remote, and off we go! It is possible to by-pass the prompt, making 3D playback default whenever BV11 recognises a 3D signal. I chose to have the option to choose.

I've watched two movies in 3D: Prometheus and The Amazing Spider Man; they are both superbly mastered in 3D.

The result? I'll never think of 3D as a gimmick again.

The 3D performance is simply incredible: pictures are ever as detailed as you'd expect from a blu-ray, motion is handled perfectly, and there's no flicker whatsoever to strain the eyes. The 3D images -- even from a TV the size of only 46" -- are deep and hugely impressive in the "3D show-off" parts of the movies. Colours look as good as on a 2D blu-ray, as do black levels. Every bit of shadow and picture detail is there. 

For someone being 3D sceptic, I must confess I was blown away. 

BeoVision 11 has offered me the best 3D experience yet, better than what I've had at the movies. It's awesome to look deep into the TV: the picture appears to be partly behind the screen. What is more awesome is to have a planet or Spider-Man floating in the air 2 meters into the living-room over a table, close enough to reach out and touch. I could have literally kicked Spidey's butt!

I will be doing a lot of 3D movie watching from now on; that will be my preference, whenever a movie is available in 3D. 

B&O recommends a dimmed or dark room for 3D viewing, and while the experience gets more immersive with the lights off, it doesn't really suffer from a couple of lights on. The only thing that is a problem is a LED lamp or a fluorescent light near the TV in the field of view: it flickers. I saw this annoyance with one tabletop lamp that has a LED bulb. But as long as the lights are ambient, on the sides or behind the viewing position, the 3D experience stays breathtaking.

With 3D, there's however one picture (LCD panel) issue not apparent in normal watching:

In a completely darkened room, with a 3D movie, the LCD occasionally reveals some backlight bleed, the type that is called "flashlighting", in one or more corners of the screen, extending some 7 cm towards the center of the screen.

I am particularly pi*sed off by backlight imperfections in LCD televisions, so this was something I had to double-check. Luckily it turns out that it is not a constant issue: the corners of the screen appear brighter with "flashlighting" only in pretty rare situations, or should I say conditions. Here's why (or my theory of it):

BV11 uses 1.5D local dimming, which can be achieved with the latest edge-lit LCD panels. If my recollection is correct, there are 16 zones which the panel of BV11 can dim locally. For the backlight bleed to appear in a corner of the screen, there has to be a specific kind of image showing: one that is mostly dark, but has something brighter in an area that would otherwise be locally more dimmed. That bright part in the picture causes the 1.5D local dimming to increase the corner's backlight to a level that brings out the bleed.

Another factor is that with 3D images, the brightness level of the screen is increased compared to normal 2D viewing, to compensate for the slight darkening of the picture when viewed through 3D glasses.

Switch on a little light in the room, and the corner-bleed becomes less noticeable. Focus on the movie and not on the screen's corners, and you won't be bothered. When I first noticed this issue, I was like "oh damn it, not again!" Then I realised how infrequent (rare) it was, and that I can overcome the issue altogether with a little light in the room. Most importantly, watching the same movie in 2D, there's no issue at all with the backlight. It takes a 3D image, with the TV's brightened backlight level, and specific content on the screen.

Is the small issue with 3D viewing a downer or a deal-breaker? Definitely not. But I thought I'd mention it because I noticed the issue. It doesn't change my verdict of BV11 showing the best, most natural 3D images I have ever seen. They are indeed a joy, not a gimmick.

My dealer mentioned that B&O has paid special attention to the implementation of 3D in BV11, and compared to what I've seen for example from Samsung's latest offerings, B&O have indeed done an excellent job.

HDR

I have never had a set-top box with a recording function, nor the external HDR from B&O, so the recording function of BV11 is the first one I've used. I almost opted not to have the HDR when I ordered the TV, as I've never really felt that I needed a HDR, but now that I have it, I find it surprisingly useful. 

For me, the most useful function is pausing and time-shifting live TV. When something interrupts my TV watching, I can simply press STOP on Beo5, and the programme pauses. When ready to continue watching, I just press PLAY. It is a hassle-free convenient function, exactly similar to hitting Pause on a Blu-ray player. In B&O's case, the maximum "break" you can take with time-shifting is 4 hours.

There are some added nice touches: if I notice that I won't have time to return to the programme in time, or I missed the rest of the programme completely, I can just select to save the whole time-shifted period to the HDR for viewing at a later time (time-shifted recordings do not show up in the RECORDINGS list, unless they are saved on purpose). 

Other recording functions, such as starting recording whatever is showing on TV with a click of a button is a breeze, as is using the EPG to select programmes to record. The user-interface is intuitive and nicely marks the programs to be recorded with a red underline. In the RECORDINGS list, the programs appear by the name they have in the EPG. Renaming is possible, as is trimming the beginning or ending of a recording.

I'll be using the HDR more than I initially thought I would: it's been made very convenient to use, and it provides the practical convenience of not having to watch something when the EPG says I should, but when I want to. For me, HDR was a case of not knowing what I need until I have it :) I also like the fact that I can record any programmes, even the HD channels I've subscribed to (the pay-TV channels).

Smart TV

The SmartTV B&O offers is very much still in its infancy. Compared to a new Samsung model, with their SmartHub, B&O is lacking a lot. 

First, there are only a handful -- less than 20 -- apps available for the TV. I checked this over and over: am I seeing the complete Apps list? Unfortunately I was, as limited as it is. To add insult to injury, some apps were mere preview demos, with no way to get the actual fully functional app. And some apps do not work at all, or work poorly. 

I tried out some weather apps; a satellite image weather app which worked, but looked unfinished. A News App that semi-worked: I was unable to use the local functions, even though Helsinki was shown in the locale list. The Facebook App has a lot of faults: for example, images on the Wall do not show up at all; the app shows a part of the images' HTML string instead! That looks nasty.

YouTube, Picasa and the web browser work nicely, but for those I do recommend having the BeoRemote for iPad/Android, so that you can have a proper keyboard to make searches, enter urls, etc. In the Web App, it's nice to be able to bookmark the most visited pages, so they can be quickly and conveniently accessed with the remote later. Moving the mouse cursor and scrolling pages with Beo5 is pretty easy.

Compared to a Samsung D8000 we have at the office, the SmartHub of Samsung is way ahead of what B&O's SmartTV offers at the moment. The TV is new, so I am certain that the App Gallery will get more apps, and better apps, as time goes by.

In the meanwhile, get an Apple TV. That is the "SmartTV" part I will be using for the foreseeable future. Also, as I have a Mac Mini connected to the TV, I am perhaps too used to the unrestricted, fully working HTPC experience with my TV, and my take on the SmartTV is biased. For people who do not have a computer connected to BV11, I suspect they'll find the Web App particularly useful. You can watch other B&O products on your BV11's screen in all their online eye-candy glory :D

Home Media

Again, with Apple TV connected to the BeoVision, I do not see myself using the Home Media function (DLNA media player) that much. I have all the functions in Apple TV, which I can conveniently control with Beo5 or iPad/iPhone.

For those who live in the PC (not Mac) side of things, Home Media will come in handy for videos, photos, music. The supported formats is an impressive list (you can find it in the User Guides section at the B&O website under BeoVision 11).

I wonder what media server B&O recommends for Mac to use with the Home Media functions? It cannot be Twonky, which is recommended for BeoSound 5 Encore. Why? Because with BeoSound 5 Encore, which I had briefly, Twonky served my iTunes library nicely to the Encore, with album art etc. However with BeoVision 11, even though the Home Media discovers the Twonky server, and lists all songs from my iTunes library, it will not play any of them. The music player simply states that all my songs are in an "Unsupported format". That said, I need to find a better compatible media server to fully try out the Home Media functions. Recommendations, anyone?

What I do find convenient as a Home Media source is the USB port at the temporary connections panel. It's perfect when someone wants to show you photos or videos from an USB stick.

All in all I'd say that B&O heavily promoting Apple TV cannibalises the use of BV11's Home Media functions. My take on this is that the Home Media is aimed more towards PC users.

Conclusion:

The SmartTV part of BV11 is the only thing I can say I'm disappointed with. Then again, with Mac Mini connected, the function is lost on me anyway. I do hope however that B&O quickly expand and fix the Apps their SmartTV offers, as it is one of the selling points of the television. With Home Media, I am biased, because of Apple TV. I hope B&O come up with a recommendation for compatible and best media servers for both Mac and PC.

That said, I couldn't be happier about upgrading from BV10 to BV11. With the sound and picture tweaked, it is one heck of a performer! 

I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have about the TV :) To the questions you've already posted, I'll reply tomorrow. TIme flew by and it's getting really late here, turning me into a zombie.

KMA

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Another great detailed and honest review. Thank you KMA, I think you've done more than your bit to help dealers receive extra orders from some of the unconvinced.

Some "sideways step"!

Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.

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madskp replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 6:41 AM

KMA:
I wonder what media server B&O recommends for Mac to use with the Home Media functions? It cannot be Twonky, which is recommended for BeoSound 5 Encore. Why? Because with BeoSound 5 Encore, which I had briefly, Twonky served my iTunes library nicely to the Encore, with album art etc. However with BeoVision 11, even though the Home Media discovers the Twonky server, and lists all songs from my iTunes library, it will not play any of them. The music player simply states that all my songs are in an "Unsupported format". That said, I need to find a better compatible media server to fully try out the Home Media functions. Recommendations, anyone?

 

I use Plex Media Server http://www.plexapp.com  with a jailbroken Apple TV. However i have also tried it with My BeoPlay V1 end it seems to be working. That said I haven't tried it with more than a few video formats so I cannot say if it will work flawlessly.

Sometimes it takes the TV a little to discover the media server, but usally after a little while it will show up in the home Media screen.

An important issue is that You can not have two DLNA serveres running at a time so you have to stop or uninstall your Twonkey server in order to try it out.

As all others pointed out this is an exelent review, and for one thing I am now convinced that I am not going to upgrade my V1 with the smart TV functions Smile

/Mads    

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valve1 replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 7:08 AM

KMA, an amazing review. My avant is loosing its safe position.....

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moxxey replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 7:48 AM

KMA:

First, there are only a handful -- less than 20 -- apps available for the TV. I checked this over and over: am I seeing the complete Apps list? Unfortunately I was, as limited as it is. To add insult to injury, some apps were mere preview demos, with no way to get the actual fully functional app. And some apps do not work at all, or work poorly. 

Thanks for the detailed report KMA (again!).

I also noticed the lack of apps. I mentioned this to my dealer on Friday. I noticed he always demoed iPlayer. When I asked for an alternative (ITV player, 4OD player etc), there weren't any alternatives. You can watch YouTube videos, browse Facebook and watch BBC iPlayer....and that's about it.

One thing I considered: these apps appear to be the same icon design as those from the Samsung TVs. I do wonder if B&O licensed this technology from Samsung? This might explain why they don't have the Netflix and other subscription apps, as they (B&O) do not have a licensing deal in place that covers these subscription apps.

Anyway, I concluded that this wasn't a concern as the Apple TV can be included in the reverse of the unit, with movie streaming capabilities, so decided that I bought a BV11 in the future, the (lack of) builtin apps wouldn't be a concern.

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moxxey replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 7:51 AM

Chris Townsend:

Some "sideways step"!

The BV11 is superb, there's no doubting that. Whether you can justify giving up your 6 month BV10, is another matter. That's, of course, your decision, but the BV11 is still, in many ways, the same TV with a few improvements. Hardly worth giving up thousands of pounds you'd lose on your new BV10 for a slightly brighter panel, slightly improved audio (over BV10+BL11), 3D and a few apps which you can get in the Apple TV anyhow.

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BeoUndies
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BeoUndies replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 8:56 AM

I decided against the built in hard drive as I thought the cost was quite excessive at £500-£600 -that's 10% of the cost of the bl**dy telly!  Whilst I like the idea of internal integration and less boxes, leads, cables and stuff, most people already have a set top box for time shift recording duties. Plus it's easy enough to upgrade the STB as and when. 

If it had a built in bluray/dvd player then I would have ordered that option without a second thought.

No interest whatsoever on the 3D front, although I quite like the look of those specs. They just need an Oakley logo on the side. 

Smart TV functions - the only app I am really interested in is BBC iPlayer. Everything else I need or use is on Apple TV. But it will be interesting to see how things pan out in the future.

Looking forward to the next update.

Have B&O contacted you yet offering you a full refund on your BV11 as a gesture of thanks and goodwill. This will be the Go To resource for any potential buyers. Most being tipped over the edge before even stepping foot in a show room.

 

 

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Chris Townsend
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When i went to the launch of the 11 it had literally just arrived at the dealers, leaving no time to prepare for that evening. I can only imagine the response from those there that evening had MC KMA's review information been available. More sales for sure.

 

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Flappo
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Flappo replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 12:02 PM

It's a shame about the samdung connection . I'd have as little to do with those scumbags as possible if I were B&O.

jkhamler
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jkhamler replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 12:22 PM

Thankfully you're not.

KMA
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KMA replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 12:48 PM

IngvarW:

Thanks for a really interesting and even exciting review serie.

Did you have the opportunity to listen to both 11-46 and 11-55 in the shop and can judge any difference?

Best regards Ingvar in Sweden

Hi IngvarW,

I didn't have a chance to do A/B listening between 46" and 55". From what I've heard, and my dealer verified this, is that the bass response is somewhat better in the 55" model, as it has two bass-reflex ports (where as the smaller models have only one, according to information I have). I have also heard a claim that the loudspeakers in the 40" and 46" models are of the "closed-box" type. Which information is correct remains to be determined by someone who has seen the innards of the television :)

In any case, all models have the same amplification and loudspeaker units, so apart from 55" having slightly better bass, you can expect the sound quality to be the same.

It would be nice to have the frequency response specs of each model, but I've not seen them anywhere.

By all accounts, the sound is better in BV11 than in BV10, especially if you take a little time to tweak the sound.

KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

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Paul W replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 12:49 PM

Yes, I totally agree with Flappo on that one. I never understood why B&O didn't buy in more quality products from Panasonic which is pure quality.   Fitting a Samsung DVD/Blu Ray player into 10k+ TVs was pretty shoddy work and has come across as pretty desperate. Never understood B&Os logic behind it. 

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KMA replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 1:01 PM

My sincere thanks to everyone for your comments, opinions and input on this thread so far :)

When more people here at BeoWorld get their BV11, it would be truly nice to hear from your experiences!

Once I've had the chance to do some more serious music listening with the TV, and watched more movies, I'll post further comments on picture and sound.

It's been a pleasure to contribute!

 

KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

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Bv7Mk3 replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 1:09 PM
Thank for the great insite of your Bv 11 enjoy!
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Paul W replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 1:30 PM

Keep those reviews coming KMA!!!

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rxcohen replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 1:34 PM
KMA absolutely fantastic review and you provided a 10 fold amount of information compared to what I received from the dealers. One question I has is on the beolab 11...do you find it necessary with the BV11 or redundant?

BV11-55, BS9000, BL1, BL19, Transmitter 1, Beo4, Beocom 6000, BeoTalk1 200, Sennheiser HD600, McIntosh MHA100

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Hiort replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 2:21 PM

KMA:

HDR

I have never had a set-top box with a recording function, nor the external HDR from B&O, so the recording function of BV11 is the first one I've used. I almost opted not to have the HDR when I ordered the TV, as I've never really felt that I needed a HDR, but now that I have it, I find it surprisingly useful. 

For me, the most useful function is pausing and time-shifting live TV. When something interrupts my TV watching, I can simply press STOP on Beo5, and the programme pauses. When ready to continue watching, I just press PLAY. It is a hassle-free convenient function, exactly similar to hitting Pause on a Blu-ray player. In B&O's case, the maximum "break" you can take with time-shifting is 4 hours.

There are some added nice touches: if I notice that I won't have time to return to the programme in time, or I missed the rest of the programme completely, I can just select to save the whole time-shifted period to the HDR for viewing at a later time (time-shifted recordings do not show up in the RECORDINGS list, unless they are saved on purpose). 

Other recording functions, such as starting recording whatever is showing on TV with a click of a button is a breeze, as is using the EPG to select programmes to record. The user-interface is intuitive and nicely marks the programs to be recorded with a red underline. In the RECORDINGS list, the programs appear by the name they have in the EPG. Renaming is possible, as is trimming the beginning or ending of a recording.

I'll be using the HDR more than I initially thought I would: it's been made very convenient to use, and it provides the practical convenience of not having to watch something when the EPG says I should, but when I want to. For me, HDR was a case of not knowing what I need until I have it :) I also like the fact that I can record any programmes, even the HD channels I've subscribed to (the pay-TV channels).

Impressive review. 

Regarding the HDR, some questions:

- what size of harddrive do you have?

- Is that a "B&O special harddrive" you need to buy?

- What was the approx cost for the HDR function and harddrive?

- Do you hear any fan noice from the HDR and/or harddrive?

I have today a cable box with recording function (PVR), connected to my BV10. Works similar to what you have described.

Downside is that the PVR is noicy, and I can hear the fan even though the PVR is in a cabinet.

 

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2  Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote  Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset

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RussR replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 8:34 PM

Flappo:

What's it like for gaming ?

Tue did espouse it's capability after all...

 

I can now answer that one Flappo.  AWFUL!!! Just as bad as the V-1.  Tried Halo 4, and it is unplayable.  Likely less noticeable on some other genres, but unacceptable.

I has a sad.  Unsure

 

Russ

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elephant replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 8:46 PM

Thanks once again for all the great details in your reviews.

And I liked how you ranked your last review's topics by the degree of satisfacation with the outcomes.

It's a pity B&O have given Russ a *sad*, and clearly gaming is something that they have to address !

Not for me Smile I would be happy with a BV11 as reviewed, but for the benefit of attracting new prospects from what is a massive industry !!

BeoNut since '75

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RussR replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 8:54 PM

Thanks for the sympathy Elephant.  I'll just have to keep my Avant until something changes.  I do find it odd that the Avant-US/BS-1 & BS-3 tv's don't exhibit this problem, and the new video engine does.  

We kid because we love.

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I agree with Paul, keep those reviews coming ;)

Hiort do you think that you can hear the fan on your pvr in the cabinet because potentially it's over heating in the cabinet?

From what I understand its just a hard drive that you would normally have and therefore there are no fans on it.
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Flappo replied on Tue, Nov 13 2012 9:15 PM

That's most odd. How hard can it be to just turn off all the picture processing ?

Looks like they need to stop advertising the game function on the new tvs .

Most misleading.

elephant
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RussR:

Thanks for the sympathy Elephant.  I'll just have to keep my Avant until something changes.  I do find it odd that the Avant-US/BS-1 & BS-3 tv's don't exhibit this problem, and the new video engine does.  

I presume that with Avant all the video processing is happening inside the PS3, and the Avant is "just" a "dumb" analogue video monitor ?

As Flappo says, they need a mode where they turn the V1 and the V11 into being a "dumb" digital monitor - I wonder if defining an AV port as [PC] mode with {GAME-ON] (lol) is what will give you the non-processing path that you need ?

(I am probably talking through my hat ... in which case I shall eat it ... even though it is an old leather stockman Big Smile)

 


BeoNut since '75

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Rikard replied on Wed, Nov 14 2012 4:58 AM

Thx for a great review, I really enjoyed reading it, but my bank account will not like it.. :) 
I will not look at the tv in real life, I know I will be forced to buy it..  

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KMA replied on Wed, Nov 14 2012 1:12 PM

rxcohen:
KMA absolutely fantastic review and you provided a 10 fold amount of information compared to what I received from the dealers. One question I has is on the beolab 11...do you find it necessary with the BV11 or redundant?

Hi rxcohen,

I'm keeping the BeoLab 11 -- it does add strength to the lows, especially with movies. However, the TV itself has better bass than BV10 had, so BeoLab 11 does not add as much to it. Also, with BeoLab 11, there's no need to tweak the bass response of BeoVision 11, as would otherwise be necessary.

I am planning on listening to music with just BeoVision 11 in the coming weekend, after which my opinion on BeoVision 11's speakers will be more more complete. I'll then re-iterate my comment on the bass as well.

KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

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