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Beomaster/system 8000 - is it really superior

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-c
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-c posted on Mon, Apr 16 2018 5:08 PM

I have recently acquired a Beosystem 8000 (sans-turntable) and I'm wondering if it's worth putting money into v/s selling.  My main system is the Beosystem 6500.  Hoarding B&O equipment is my Kryptonite but I can't allow a beautiful system to rot from lack of use.  In this case I need to commit to one system or another and i haven't approached my wife yet but I'm pretty sure having the 8000 on the bedroom night stand is out of the question.

I know it's more powerful but is it really sonically superior to more modern systems? Isn't it a reasonable assumption that B&O would carry significant advances forward to newer models?

I am sure that I'm keeping the MS150.2s but why put money into the CDX or buy a turntable or even refurbish 8000 for that matter?  

Aside from personal taste, wattage aside (that's a whole other discussion) is there some measurable data to indicate that one should keep the 8000 over the 55/65/7000 models?

I appreciate your input into my final decision.

It's a fine line between collecting and hoarding, and I'm always dancing on it.  Beomaster 8000 x2, Beocord 8004, Beomaster 6000, Beocord 9000, CDX, Beomaster 6500, Beocord 6500, Beogram 6500 CD, Beogram 6500 Turntable, BeoSound 2300, BeoSound 2000,  BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2 Sub, BeoVox S45.2 x4, BeoVox S75, BeoVox S120, BeoVox M150,  BeoVox MS150, RL140, BeoTime, BeoCom 1

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-c
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-c replied on Tue, Apr 17 2018 9:33 AM

More fodder: The continuous power for the bm6500 is 110w IEC 8oms which as i understand it is around 55 RMS. 

My reading indicates that when amplifying voice speech, the speaker and amp RMS should match, however for most music you want  2* speaker RMS to Amp RMS to avoid distortion and damage and for DJ applications you'll want to consider even higher ratios.  This would make the 6500 a good match for S120 or even MS150s.

 

 

It's a fine line between collecting and hoarding, and I'm always dancing on it.  Beomaster 8000 x2, Beocord 8004, Beomaster 6000, Beocord 9000, CDX, Beomaster 6500, Beocord 6500, Beogram 6500 CD, Beogram 6500 Turntable, BeoSound 2300, BeoSound 2000,  BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2 Sub, BeoVox S45.2 x4, BeoVox S75, BeoVox S120, BeoVox M150,  BeoVox MS150, RL140, BeoTime, BeoCom 1

Premiumverum
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The proof of the pudding will be in the eating!

However, the beolab 8000 system was a tour de force, never matched in power or refinement by anything B&O made before or a couple of years after. It was the Beolab 5, or beolab 90 if you will, of its time! BM6500's internal amplifier is a souped up version of the amplifier that was in the smaller music systems, e.g. BC7700, at the time BM8000 was made. This is a nice sounding amplifier, but was made for smaller loudspeakers. 

If you want to use the huge MS150's, they will sound nice with BM6500. But it will lack the power and control BM8000 will have over them.

I like comparing BM8000+MS150 to a rolls royce, BM8000 the engine and the loudspeakers the carriage. When properly restored they will give you a great looking system and extraordinarily comfortable, effortless music reproduction with lots of power in reserve for when the music demands it. A smaller amplifier will be like a smaller engine in the rolls royce: it will lack control and power reserve.

Be aware, any 8000 system component, also the speakers, will now need service to perform at its best and/or prevent catastrophic failure. These are complicated machines and should not be serviced by beginners or standard repair shops. Take a look at beolover.blogspot.com, and there are more experts like him around the forum.

AdamS
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AdamS replied on Tue, Apr 17 2018 1:00 PM

-c:

I know it's more powerful but is it really sonically superior to more modern systems?

Simple answer - yes, absolutely. I have a full Beolab 8000 system and will never part with it. I no longer have a 6500 or 5500 system - make of this what you will!

As to your comments on power outputs, it's more complicated than it may first seem, but it is better to have an amplifier that is more powerful than the speakers can handle, than one that only produces half the power. It is easier to damage a loudspeaker by turning an underpowered amplifier up too high so that it is driven into distortion, than it is by over-driving using a powerful one.

-c
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-c replied on Tue, Apr 17 2018 1:32 PM

Great information, I've read through the beolover site and was very impressed with the attention to detail, going as far as 3D printing adapters for the new capacitors to compensate for the size difference.....well that's someone I would let touch my equipment...if you get my meaning..

It's a fine line between collecting and hoarding, and I'm always dancing on it.  Beomaster 8000 x2, Beocord 8004, Beomaster 6000, Beocord 9000, CDX, Beomaster 6500, Beocord 6500, Beogram 6500 CD, Beogram 6500 Turntable, BeoSound 2300, BeoSound 2000,  BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2 Sub, BeoVox S45.2 x4, BeoVox S75, BeoVox S120, BeoVox M150,  BeoVox MS150, RL140, BeoTime, BeoCom 1

-c
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-c replied on Tue, Apr 17 2018 1:45 PM

As to your comments on power outputs, it's more complicated than it may first seem, but it is better to have an amplifier that is more powerful than the speakers can handle, than one that only produces half the power. 

The internet is somewhat dangerous for me as i tend to do enough research to confuse myself, I've read a few theories around amp to speaker ratios.. More powerful amps, less powerful amps etc,  what made the most sense to me was something i read about speaker sensitivity or watts to decimal ratio.  The MS150 states the sensitivity but not the decibal relationship.

Also, the bm8000 is 4ohm while the MS150 are 8 ohms so why wouldn't i have to wire them in parallel to avoid over heating the amplifier?  

I have the utmost respect for people who can decipher this stuff.  


It's a fine line between collecting and hoarding, and I'm always dancing on it.  Beomaster 8000 x2, Beocord 8004, Beomaster 6000, Beocord 9000, CDX, Beomaster 6500, Beocord 6500, Beogram 6500 CD, Beogram 6500 Turntable, BeoSound 2300, BeoSound 2000,  BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2 Sub, BeoVox S45.2 x4, BeoVox S75, BeoVox S120, BeoVox M150,  BeoVox MS150, RL140, BeoTime, BeoCom 1

AdamS
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AdamS replied on Tue, Apr 17 2018 8:46 PM

What the specifications mean is that the BM8000 will drive speakers that measure down to 4 Ohms in impedance - some amplifiers won't.

It will therefore drive the 8 Ohm MS150s quite happily, but only deliver 100W into them, rather than 150W. But don't worry; your ears will have given up long before that...Wink

-c
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-c replied on Sun, May 13 2018 2:53 AM

I wanted to follow up on your comments and thanks again for the insight.  Well by happenstance I would up with 2 BM8000 (one isn't working), and 2 sets of MS150s.   I hooked them up to my BM6500 and it sounded very nice and warm, when I hooked it to my BM 8000 it sounded less warm but really hit hard, filling in the upper and lower registers nicely without having to try too hard.

I'm still missing the warmth of my 6500, so I'm assuming a recap is in order. I'm confident with a soldering iron and a multi-meter but reading some posts it seems the BM800 is not for the faint at heart.  As stated however I do have 2 of these, would you recommend this as a DIY project? 

It's a fine line between collecting and hoarding, and I'm always dancing on it.  Beomaster 8000 x2, Beocord 8004, Beomaster 6000, Beocord 9000, CDX, Beomaster 6500, Beocord 6500, Beogram 6500 CD, Beogram 6500 Turntable, BeoSound 2300, BeoSound 2000,  BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2 Sub, BeoVox S45.2 x4, BeoVox S75, BeoVox S120, BeoVox M150,  BeoVox MS150, RL140, BeoTime, BeoCom 1

-c
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-c replied on Sun, May 13 2018 2:53 AM

I wanted to follow up on your comments and thanks again for the insight.  Well by happenstance I would up with 2 BM8000 (one isn't working), and 2 sets of MS150s.   I hooked them up to my BM6500 and it sounded very nice and warm, when I hooked it to my BM 8000 it sounded less warm but really hit hard, filling in the upper and lower registers nicely without having to try too hard.

I'm still missing the warmth of my 6500, so I'm assuming a recap is in order. I'm confident with a soldering iron and a multi-meter but reading some posts it seems the BM800 is not for the faint at heart.  As stated however I do have 2 of these, would you recommend this as a DIY project? 

It's a fine line between collecting and hoarding, and I'm always dancing on it.  Beomaster 8000 x2, Beocord 8004, Beomaster 6000, Beocord 9000, CDX, Beomaster 6500, Beocord 6500, Beogram 6500 CD, Beogram 6500 Turntable, BeoSound 2300, BeoSound 2000,  BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2 Sub, BeoVox S45.2 x4, BeoVox S75, BeoVox S120, BeoVox M150,  BeoVox MS150, RL140, BeoTime, BeoCom 1

Peter
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Peter replied on Sun, May 13 2018 8:49 PM

I remember talking to Tim Jarman about the 8000 compared to the 4400. We agreed that the 8000 was a receiver built without compromise - the transformer is massive! However we both agreed that it didn't sound as nice to listen to as the 4400. I run both at present and like them both. The 8000 is on bedroom duty as my Beolab 5000 has developed a fault  - and the 4401 is on music room duty - scandalously underused at present. The 8000 is lovely but is outrageously huge - This is my third 8000 - I keep selling them and missing them!!

Peter

-c
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-c replied on Thu, May 17 2018 12:05 AM

Thanks, that's interesting.  I have 2 8000s one displays 8s while the other is fully functional.  I listened to my MS150s and S120s alternating between the bm8000 and my bm6500 and honestly I found that while the bm8000 hit harder a lower volumes and filled in better, not to mention triggering the overload on my S120s, it lacked the warmth of my bm6500.  My wife even walked into the room not realizing I had switched to the 6500 and commented on how much better it sounded.  It really didn't start to lose it's appeal until I turned it up to 11.    

I have a large room, 25 foot ceilings and I would like to really fill the space.  If I were to invest in having my bm8000 refurbished would it drastically improve the experience? To my ears it's ... well .. meh.

Would recapping the bm8000 be a DIY project, I was thinking of starting with the non-functional unit just in case I mess up. 

Thanks for your advice

It's a fine line between collecting and hoarding, and I'm always dancing on it.  Beomaster 8000 x2, Beocord 8004, Beomaster 6000, Beocord 9000, CDX, Beomaster 6500, Beocord 6500, Beogram 6500 CD, Beogram 6500 Turntable, BeoSound 2300, BeoSound 2000,  BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2 Sub, BeoVox S45.2 x4, BeoVox S75, BeoVox S120, BeoVox M150,  BeoVox MS150, RL140, BeoTime, BeoCom 1

Andrew
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Andrew replied on Thu, May 17 2018 7:33 AM

I probably wouldn't try as I had a BM6000 and that was very complicated, better to leave it to a professional unless you have good soldering skills and know what you're doing? The problem is you try and fix one thing and then break another and without technical knowledge it will be difficult to know where to look to fix it.

Interesting comments about the sound of the systems, to me the BM6000 (which is similar) sounded fantastic compared to BM6500 which sounded wooly and nowhere near as clear. I don't think there was anything wrong with either technically. I now have my M100-2 in the study hooked upto a BLPassive feeding a Valve Power Amp and the sound is wonderful and makes the speakers sound fantastic especially when playing Vinyl. But then again it is all subjective and what sounds good to one person won't sound good to another. Design plays another part - I love the BM6000/8000 looks over the 6500 range - it just looks the part. I experimented using a Linn Axis record deck with a  Shure M44-7 cartridge and it did sound better with some records better than my BG4002 with an MMC20EN, more bass and a warmer mid. However after comparing them for a while I much prefer the BG4002 in terms of looks, sound and convenience - so will be keeping that and giving the linn to a friend. Besides which the BG4002 looks perfect with the M100 - is all I need now is a BM4400 as I think that will give the type of sound I like.

I guess what I'm saying is if you like the sound of the BM6500 then stick with it and spend the money on more music. I've ended up wasting money experimenting and trying different setups only to come back to what I find gives the type of sound I like.

henrik
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henrik replied on Thu, May 17 2018 7:13 PM

Andrew:
Interesting comments about the sound of the systems, to me the BM6000 (which is similar) sounded fantastic compared to BM6500 which sounded wooly and nowhere near as clear.

I agree. My 8000 and actually most of all my 6000 both sound better than my 7000. My 7000 has softer treble, and even if I use the tone controls to compensate for that (I have to set treble to +3 to make up for the roll-off), the 7000 does not sound as clear and transparent as the others.

I've also compared it to my 9500, and the 9500 also beats the 7000 (I used the beolink outputs and beolabs for this comparison). This is what surprises me the most, as I expected the 9500 and the 7000 to be quite similar.I realise that it sounds like I have a faulty unit and that may very well be the case, but it has been like this since i bought it new in the 90s and both channels sound similar. I hope that it is a fault and not by design, it would be nice to get it to sound better because I really like its features and it also controls most of my lights and wakes me up every morning! :)

sonavor
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Be wary of reviews/comparisons of vintage audio equipment. Unless an audio component has been properly serviced (meaning fully restored to like new condition) then comparing the audio performance of 20, 30, 40+ year old audio gear is not going to produce any useful information. The audio component will most likely be operating at a degraded level from its design.

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