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SACD playback from bluray player on a BV - question?

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Millemissen
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Millemissen posted on Mon, Feb 19 2018 9:12 PM

I know this has been up before - e.g. here:

https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/10944.aspx?PageIndex=1

But that was almost  4 years ago.

Any current knowledge on SACD playback on the BV’s?

The question: is playback of (multi channel) SACD on a BeoVision/HDMI possible from any of the current Bluray players, that you know of....when you count out the OPPO’s?

I did not have any luck with my recent experiment (the Pioneer BDP-180)!

The Oppo (203) seems overkill to me with its analog section/outputs, the double HDMI-outs and the HDMI-in.

For a BeoVision all you really need is one HDMI output!

 

And by the way - owners of an OPPO 203 - does this show album covers (and metadaa from Gracenote) when playing CD’s....like the 103 does?

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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BEOVOX141
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Actually, the HDMI in, combined with the decoded analog out,- and trigger,

should make the 203 a perfect companion for the Beolab range and a C7 Smile

@ £649 its a winner!

Millemissen
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Should that be an answer to my posting, or....?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

mrCTE
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mrCTE replied on Tue, Feb 20 2018 7:43 AM

MM, 

I’m considering the Sony UHP-H1; it’s around £300 and allows for SACD/DVD Audio playback via HDMI, which seems to fit your brief pretty well.

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/blu-ray-disc-players/uhp-h1#reviews_awards_v2_default

:)

Millemissen
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mrCTE:

MM, 

I’m considering the Sony UHP-H1; it’s around £300 and allows for SACD/DVD Audio playback via HDMI, which seems to fit your brief pretty well.

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/blu-ray-disc-players/uhp-h1#reviews_awards_v2_default

:)

Sorry, but I am askng for actual user experience with a specific player = does it work with a BV or not?

To be more technical:

In my first post I linked to that old thread.

I seems that it depends on how the conversion (from the SACD format to PCM) is done internally in the player 

The BV’s don’t handle output in 88.2/176.4, which most bluray player seem to use for the output.

(The funny thing is that they can handle it, when played back using the DLNA player).

Please read the posts from Geoff Martin there!

I don’t suppose, that there will be any changes to e.g. an Avant in this matter.

Therefore I need a player, that works with 96 (or 196) kHz as output - this seems to go well with the BV’s.

The OPPO would do the job, I know - but are there other current bluray player that can....that is my question!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

mrCTE
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mrCTE replied on Tue, Feb 20 2018 11:06 AM

Mr MM, 

I understand. 

I've checked with the user manual on the Sony before, and it seems to convert the DSD to PCM at playable output via HDMI on my Beosystem 4 driven set. I suppose the proof in the pudding will be in the eating - I'll let you know how it goes. 

Manual here: 

http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/4588106111.pdf pp. 29

Millemissen
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It will be much appreciated, if you would do the test/the eating of the pudding, so to say.

If you already have/have bought that player, it will just be a matter of having a SACD and of making the right settings in the Sony menu.

As stated, I had no luck with a brandnew Pioneer nor with my (now) aged Panasonic DVD/SACD player.

(Mostly you can not find any hints to the output format in manuals).

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

poodleboy
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Mr. MM, The depth of your story finally hit me in the head. My first SACD player was a Sony from 2002 so the output was only multiple-channel analogue. It played into a system with discrete multiple-channel analogue inputs and speaker-level outputs. That were the original standard, is it true that the old system captured DSD at it's most purest capability and outputting to HDMI could never be so good? When I had a Beovision 11 (sadly and completely destroyed in a move) and a Oppo 103 player, was the ceiling automatically clipped by the HDMI standards? It sounded delicious probably because only a dog could hear the top :-) 

Carolpa
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The first really good working sacd and b&o combo was with the oppo 103.

The problem with other players I tried was the conversion dsf/dff to pcm.

This combination works flawlessly

Now I use mainly the 203 together with the eclipse. The 103 I use mainly to rip sacd to dsf files.
Millemissen
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Thanks Carolpa,

Nothing against the OPPO, not at all.

However, I find it overkill to pay for a lot of features, that you don’t need, when it will be connected to a BV (via HDMI).

If I don’t find another one, which will work with the BV’s, I surely will get the OPPO.

You also have the 203 - does that play the SACD’s just like the 103 does/did?

The 103 will be hard to find these day - and it mostly cost more than the new one.

 

Maybe you could also answer my additional question from my first post =

does the 203 (using Gracenote) support metadata and coverpics, when playing CD’s?

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Barry Santini
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Carolpa:

The first really good working sacd and b&o combo was with the oppo 103.

The problem with other players I tried was the conversion dsf/dff to pcm.

This combination works flawlessly

Now I use mainly the 203 together with the eclipse. The 103 I use mainly to rip sacd to dsf files.

Dss/dff??
Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Wed, Feb 21 2018 11:36 PM
Barry Santini:

Dss/dff??

Dsf / Dff : The file formats of sacd files
Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Wed, Feb 21 2018 11:41 PM
Millemissen:

Thanks Carolpa,

Nothing against the OPPO, not at all.

However, I find it overkill to pay for a lot of features, that you don’t need, when it will be connected to a BV (via HDMI).

If I don’t find another one, which will work with the BV’s, I surely will get the OPPO.

You also have the 203 - does that play the SACD’s just like the 103 does/did?

The 103 will be hard to find these day - and it mostly cost more than the new one.

Maybe you could also answer my additional question from my first post =

does the 203 (using Gracenote) support metadata and coverpics, when playing CD’s?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Then you have to find another BR player which supports the sacd format AND can convert them to PCM (watch out “DOP” if mentioned is not the same)

Gracenote: not sure - have to look when I’m back home
John
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John replied on Thu, Feb 22 2018 3:28 AM

Millemissen:

I know this has been up before - e.g. here:

https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/10944.aspx?PageIndex=1

But that was almost  4 years ago.

Any current knowledge on SACD playback on the BV’s?

The question: is playback of (multi channel) SACD on a BeoVision/HDMI possible from any of the current Bluray players, that you know of....when you count out the OPPO’s?

I did not have any luck with my recent experiment (the Pioneer BDP-180)!

The Oppo (203) seems overkill to me with its analog section/outputs, the double HDMI-outs and the HDMI-in.

For a BeoVision all you really need is one HDMI output!

 

And by the way - owners of an OPPO 203 - does this show album covers (and metadaa from Gracenote) when playing CD’s....like the 103 does?

 

MM

 

This is a serendipitous post that resonates with me nicely at this time, as my current Sony Blurayer is having issues reading dual layer BD disks, either refusing to play, or with dropouts and freezes during playback, and also similar issues with dual layer DVD's.  I fear it's lifespan is up and it's time for a new one.

To the best of my knowledge, the inability of the HDMI inputs on the Beovision system 4, - which affects my V1-40 and the Beovision 11's, plus whatever other model B&O TV's, - remains, as regards NOT accepting a 88.2 or 176.4khz LPCM signal of a SACD disk internally converted in the player from DSD to PCM and output at those frequencies.

From anecdotal comment, it would appear that from previous generations of the Oppo players, that they will down convert to 44.1 or 48khz, if the HDMI receiver (in this case the B&O TV HDMI input) cannot accept 88.2.

I have made enquiries with three companies whose products interest me re the latest generation; Oppo, Cambridge Audio and Sony.

Oppp's customer service stated that as regards the current 203/205 model, that the player would handshake with the B&O via HDMI, and if the B&O would not accept 88.2 LPCM, then the player would downsample the PCM signal to 48khz.

Cambridge Audio, re the new CXUHD took a few days to answer after consulting their engineering team, and stated that their player would UPSAMPLE an outgoing 88.2 kHz LPCM signal via HDMI, where the receiver (again the BV TV's HDMI input) would not accept 88.2, - to 96khz.

I simply do not know how this achieved technically, given that both the Oppo 203/205 and the Cambridge CXUHD use the same Taiwanese Mediatek Soc motherboard, so can only accept what the companies claim, given that I have no means of verifying by testing it out.

And lastly, the Sony X800 Bluray player - it lacks Dolby vision compared to the Oppo/Cambridge audio, and local support was unable to answer the question, which ended up going all the way back to Japan.

The answer was that the player would handshake over HDMI with the HDMI input of the receiver (again the BV HDMI's input) and Downsample from 88.2 to 48khz to suit the receiver.

So, theoretically all three players should work re SACD playback, with the player set to convert internally the DSD audio to be output as LPCM via HDMI, and if at 88.2, that the player will either down or upsample the frequency of the output to suit the receivers HDMI input - again the B&O TV HDMI input.

As I am unable to test this out, I wonder if anyone on the forum reading this, who might own one of these players, and hopefully connected via HDMI to a B&O TV that uses Beosystem 4, could comment as to whether one can actually playback SACD's successfully in this manner.

Many thanks  :-)

John.. 

 

 

Carolpa
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John:

This is a serendipitous post that resonates with me nicely at this time, as my current Sony Blurayer is having issues reading dual layer BD disks, either refusing to play, or with dropouts and freezes during playback, and also similar issues with dual layer DVD's. I fear it's lifespan is up and it's time for a new one.

To the best of my knowledge, the inability of the HDMI inputs on the Beovision system 4, - which affects my V1-40 and the Beovision 11's, plus whatever other model B&O TV's, - remains, as regards NOT accepting a 88.2 or 176.4khz LPCM signal of a SACD disk internally converted in the player from DSD to PCM and output at those frequencies.

From anecdotal comment, it would appear that from previous generations of the Oppo players, that they will down convert to 44.1 or 48khz, if the HDMI receiver (in this case the B&O TV HDMI input) cannot accept 88.2.

I have made enquiries with three companies whose products interest me re the latest generation; Oppo, Cambridge Audio and Sony.

Oppp's customer service stated that as regards the current 203/205 model, that the player would handshake with the B&O via HDMI, and if the B&O would not accept 88.2 LPCM, then the player would downsample the PCM signal to 48khz.

Cambridge Audio, re the new CXUHD took a few days to answer after consulting their engineering team, and stated that their player would UPSAMPLE an outgoing 88.2 kHz LPCM signal via HDMI, where the receiver (again the BV TV's HDMI input) would not accept 88.2, - to 96khz.

I simply do not know how this achieved technically, given that both the Oppo 203/205 and the Cambridge CXUHD use the same Taiwanese Mediatek Soc motherboard, so can only accept what the companies claim, given that I have no means of verifying by testing it out.

And lastly, the Sony X800 Bluray player - it lacks Dolby vision compared to the Oppo/Cambridge audio, and local support was unable to answer the question, which ended up going all the way back to Japan.

The answer was that the player would handshake over HDMI with the HDMI input of the receiver (again the BV HDMI's input) and Downsample from 88.2 to 48khz to suit the receiver.

So, theoretically all three players should work re SACD playback, with the player set to convert internally the DSD audio to be output as LPCM via HDMI, and if at 88.2, that the player will either down or upsample the frequency of the output to suit the receivers HDMI input - again the B&O TV HDMI input.

As I am unable to test this out, I wonder if anyone on the forum reading this, who might own one of these players, and hopefully connected via HDMI to a B&O TV that uses Beosystem 4, could comment as to whether one can actually playback SACD's successfully in this manner.

Many thanks :-)

John..

note:

I already confirmed it in my post before
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