Sign in   |  Join   |  Help

Future B&O

rated by 0 users
Answered (Verified) This post has 2 verified answers | 108 Replies | 4 Followers

Puncher
Top 10 Contributor
Durham
11,593 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
Puncher posted on Thu, Nov 23 2017 10:16 AM

Meliora:

You are spot on. All engineers that worked on Eclipse and BeoLab50 has left the company. They where all laid off between may and October 2017. The company has no engineering left (only the aluminium factory that rumors say is for sale). In future the functions left will be design, purchasing, sourcing and some support functions left. Rest is RIP.

The future vision of B&O management is to run the business as a Beoplay business unit. That means all engineering in the future will happen at subcontractors in China and production will be handled by Chinese controlled Thyphany factory in Czech.

I will not buy B&O anymore because of this decission - I don't want a LG TV with a chinese speaker box attached. I think I would be better off with a LG TV with an LG soundbar. At least you know the two parts will be compatible.

I think BeoLab 90 and 50 are the last real Danish B&O icons.

The above was posted in the Eclipse thread. Can anyone confirmed whether this is true? 

If this is indeed the future will the products be "sourced", in which case B&O are still responsible for warranty/support etc., or "licensed" in which case total product liability is the licensee's in which case B&O are only printing their name on someone elses product for a fee.

Ban boring signatures!

Answered (Verified) Verified Answer

Calvin
Top 500 Contributor
161 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
Answered (Verified) Calvin replied on Thu, Nov 23 2017 3:18 PM
Verified by AnalogPlanet

I think the key comparison is to Apple which moved everything to Asia. It's not necessarily a bad thing, unless you're Danish I suppose and see local production as a key intangible aspect of the product. If it's well designed I don't really care where it's made as long as the quality controls are in place, the days of China only being able to manufacture cheap rubbish are long gone. Yes they specialise in cheap bad manufacturing but they also do a good line in cheap(er) high quality manufacturing.

Opening up an old Apple product is a joy, new products are unserviceable but that doesn't mean I'm ditching MacBooks any time soon, there's far more to my product choice. I will agree it is somewhat sad in a way but every industry sector is the same, you could equally complain 40 years ago about car production lines replacing humans with 'soulless' robots and demand refuse to drink from wine glasses that weren't hand blown. I prefer one over the other but as I'm not a billionaire I'd rather pay half as much if I'm pushed to choose one over the other.

Roger
Top 200 Contributor
Norway
415 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
Answered (Verified) Roger replied on Thu, Nov 23 2017 6:12 PM
Verified by Meliora

From my post on the Eclipse - copy & paste:

I can confirm the info from Meliora.

A consequence is also that the integration with the old ML is soon to be lost (the NL/ML converter is already in the history books, no replacement). The connection and interaction will be via "native" apps on your phone such as Apple Music, Deezer, Spotify etc to stream music - both locally and to multi-rooms - in the not too distant future. The good thing is that you can mix any Spotify Connect or AirPlay 2 compatible product with the B&O gear - you do not need to go all-in on B&O. But....and there is a big but.... B&O as we know it is more or less about to change drastically seen from a BeoWorlders point of view. 

And as Meliora points out - the success of BeoPlay indicates that this is what the market wants. 

The strategy makes sense, IMHO, for a BeoSound 2 - not so much for a BeoVision, which should be the heart and brain of my home network. But, not anymore.

Roger

All Replies

svinaik
Top 500 Contributor
202 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

Razlaw:
Comparing the price of a Beovision to another TV is ridiculous. Nobody buys a B and O TV because of the value of it. Just as nobody buys a Bentley, for instance, because of it’s value. Obviously if you look at the specifications one could find any number of cars that would out perform and have more features than a Bentley for less money.

 

 

And who cares where the screen comes from. The new Aston Martin Vantage has a Mercedes AMG engine in it, Mercedes electronics, and a touchpad straight out of the current Mercedes models. But I am certain Aston Martin will sell every Vantage they can make.

 

 

Bang and Olufsen is a luxury product and the price of a luxury product can never be justified in comparison to other products.

 

 

People either like individual Bang and Olufsen products or they do not.

 

Similarly the price may make sense to some and not to others. Personally, the price of the Eclipse looks like a bargain to me when I think of the $8,500 I paid 17 years ago for a 32 inch Avant or the fact that my 7-55 cost thousands of dollars more than a 55 inch Eclipse.

 

 

Will I buy an Eclipse? I don’t know. I have yet to see one in person.

 

But from the pictures, reviews, and features of it, I do like it very much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Razlaw, every time I read your comments, I always think that either you are blessed with too much money or cursed with little critical thinking or both. No body should ever throw out money on anything because they think it is a “Luxury” brand, particularly if there are choices available. But hey, who is to say what the best way to live. You live your way and many of us will live our way.

Also, please do not keep repeating where the screen comes from, You may not know but everyone else seems to already know that there is only manufacturer of large size OLED screen and that is LG.

moxxey
Top 25 Contributor
South West, UK
4,822 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
moxxey replied on Fri, Nov 24 2017 7:02 AM

Razlaw:

Will I buy an Eclipse? I don’t know. I have yet to see one in person.

But from the pictures, reviews, and features of it, I do like it very much.

But, with respect Razlaw, you say that about anything B&O. Every time there’s a new speaker release, you need it. New TV, it’s automatically excellent. Ultra-positive about all things B&O. Almost blinded by the brand. And there nothing wrong in that. Remember, we all own the kit! I have plenty of B&O and BeoPlay product.

The products are still excellent. But let down with constant software issues, reduced post-sale support, strong competition and the people here are rightly arguing the entire ethos is going, too. It’s just not the same B&O.

Puncher
Top 10 Contributor
Durham
11,593 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

The Aston Martin analogy isn't quite the same - Beovisions have always had tubes or panels from some other manufacturer, as with cassette and CD mechanisms etc. The difference was always that B&O would then apply their own technology/electronics to extract the absolute best from the raw components and then, when the product performed as good as it could ever be, the mechanical guys added the B&O'ness with moving parts etc. and then wrapped it in B&O magic. That's what made a Beovision.

In this case they just haven't bothered doing anything at all.

What they absolutely did not do was buy a Philips TV and re-badge it (or just stick a speaker underneath).

If their next speaker was a re-badged B&W speaker would you buy it, happy that it had a B&O logo?

Or, more likely, when the next BL20 is entirely designed and manufactured in China would you buy it, happy that it had a B&O logo? Are they really Beolabs?

@Razlaw - would you have bought your BL20's if you knew they were designed and built in China? If so, how much would you have been willing to pay, the same or would you expect less?

All of this may seem an exaggeration but I fear this is very much the thin end of a wedge which may well end up at some point where the only B&O involvement is in what colour the Kvadrat cloth is!

Ban boring signatures!

Emil Jensen
Top 150 Contributor
Denmark
421 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

svinaik:

Hi Razlaw, every time I read your comments, I always think that either you are blessed with too much money or cursed with little critical thinking or both. No body should ever throw out money on anything because they think it is a “Luxury” brand, particularly if there are choices available. But hey, who is to say what the best way to live. You live your way and many of us will live our way.

 

But can you get a TV that can do the same as the Eclipse, the answer is no.

So why compare to products that do not do the same?

Yes Loewe comes close, but are not there, the B&O is still ahead on many Things, but I will be the first to admid that Loewe also have a lot going for them, and thing they do better then B&O.

Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 20, Beolab 17, Beosound 1 Google assist, Beoplay M3, Beoplay H6

Aussie Michael
Top 50 Contributor
Melbourne, AU
3,337 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
Even if engineers have been laid off doesn’t mean that B&O can’t design TV solutions under their brand and made by the experts at third party companies like LG.

I see a future for B&O TVs.

Beer_Baron
Not Ranked
Australia
56 Posts
OFFLINE
Silver Member

I bought my first B&O over 10 years ago. Since then I have suffered financial hardship, etc. but recently things have turned around to the point where I either buy a car (sold it due to job loss) or buy an Eclipse. Guess what I'm doing...

My point is that when I first bought I came on here and read all the posts - around mid-2000s. Same issues. B&O are losing their way, it's all going pear-shaped, etc. It's strange to come back after such a long time and read much the same things.

I suppose I'm fortunate to have bypassed all the software troubles of recent products. B&O have had lots of software issues and the number 1 cry appears to be - fix the software! So B&O out source their software to a major TV manufacturer (LG) which will immediately reduce a lot of their tech burden, and what do people say? They now complain that it isn't B&O.

MO: B&O have done the right thing to reduce tech risk by further outsourcing the TV bits to other manufacturers, leaving them to focus on the audio and networking which is B&O's forte. I can't see them churning out premium BV products that debut two years after everyone else, and make a profit.

As to outsourcing to China, get real. Just about everything you buy or use comes from overseas, no matter where you live. It's the quality that counts, not the location.

I'm happy to buy the Eclipse, I think it's worth it, mainly because I like the brand. My existing BV and other toys kept a smile on my face even through the worst times. I had a real attachment to my car and I miss it, but I sold it in preference to my B&O. If they fail in the next few years I'll be devastated, but I am happy with the product today. Tomorrow, who knows? I'll judge it when I next purchase some B&O magic.

BV6-26, BV7-40, BL7.4, BL3, BL5, BS9000, BC1, ES1, Beo4, BeoPort

vikinger
Top 25 Contributor
Vestri Kirkjubyr, UK
5,337 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

B&O design was once so good and distinctive that there was never any problem defending an expensive purchase against standard manufacturers offerings.

Apart from the current big speaker range (with a manufacturing life of 5-10 years at the outside?) I wouldn’t want to defend a purchase of a current B&O offering. The TV motorised stands and wall hinges still knock the competition out of the water though! It wouldn't be too difficult to make a motorised soundbar to carry any TV panel, with the PUC and control chips in the soundbar. Isn't that what they've done with the Eclipse, but as a very expensive product with a fixed choice of panel marked-up 400%?

Graham

 

Puncher
Top 10 Contributor
Durham
11,593 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

Aussie Michael:
Even if engineers have been laid off doesn’t mean that B&O can’t design TV solutions under their brand and made by the experts at third party companies like LG.

 

 

I see a future for B&O TVs.

 

 

If the engineers have gone who is going to do the designing,  or do you mean the party frock to dress it up?

 

Ban boring signatures!

Puncher
Top 10 Contributor
Durham
11,593 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

Emil Jensen:

First of all, sorry about saying Loewe dont have dolby vision, my mistake.

I have always turned pro motion, or what they else have called fancy system, completely off. And I am not the only one.

You guys keep saying that Loewe is better, and I will not get into details if you eyes can judge this.

But we should agree that the eclipse in the top 5 in picture quality in the world, and B&O have never been up there, especially when we talk about new technology. Other models have used old displays or anyways have after a year been behind(Hopefully this will change with LG)

I think that the earth have turned upside down when it is needed to specify what you get ekstra with a B&O television on a B&O fan forum.

Lets compare to a LG C7, you get ekstra:

You get 2 tuner for recording 

You get picture in picture

You get a full blown surround processor in worldclass with interface on the TV

You get a full multiroom capable sound system

You get Airplay

You get chromecast

You get Tune in

You get one of the best remote in the world

You get a full PUC system to control third party

You get storage space for a Apple tv

You get option for a motoricestand with to axle

You get option for a flowding motor wall mount

You get the best sound from a TV in the world

You get both 3.0 and 1.0 sound option from the tv

You get WISA best wireless speaker system in the world

World class design (In my personal taste)

 

Oh no sorry i forgot it is just a rebranded TV, come on guys!

Which of these features are not in the soundbar?

Ban boring signatures!

BeoGreg
Top 75 Contributor
South of France
1,413 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
BeoGreg replied on Fri, Nov 24 2017 10:03 AM
To go back to the first question, it seems that what Meloria said was true then (confirmed by "insider" Roger).

Had a wee discussion about it this morning with my wife about this Struer Revolution, she said "Yes !!!" (meaning less money spent).

Well I had to ask her if she wasn’t happy after all those years with B&O gears ?

Of course she was and, again, I’m sad to ear that the ship is shrinking deeper and deeper (it’s now a submarine).

I’m still very interested in an Eclipse and it’s just a problem of extra cash for me.
Emil Jensen
Top 150 Contributor
Denmark
421 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

Puncher:

Which of these features are not in the soundbar?

What is your point exactly?

but to answer your question compared to C7:

You get 2 tuner for recording 

You get picture in picture

You get a full blown surround processor interface on the TV

multiroom capable interface

PUC system interface

motoricestand interface

 

Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 20, Beolab 17, Beosound 1 Google assist, Beoplay M3, Beoplay H6

vikinger
Top 25 Contributor
Vestri Kirkjubyr, UK
5,337 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
vikinger replied on Fri, Nov 24 2017 10:35 AM

Don't be blind to what the competition offers and assume that B&O is always superior.

My Olive One has enabled me to stream and keep using Beovoxes but retire energy inefficient Beomasters to the status of show/ talking pieces.

Bose are much derided on this forum, but my own ancient Mk 1 Wave Radio has given faultless performance for longer than I can remember.

B&O may yet recover to their former glory, but they are going through a fairly common phase of a relatively large company having to shrink down whilst at the same time several new start-ups with low overheads and new design ideas are suddenly alongside them in the market. Maybe the Play range was the only way forward, and maybe that means B&O is just destined to be nothing special once it can no longer find a market for the BL50/90s and Eclipse TVs.

Graham

AngloApulian
Top 500 Contributor
London, UK
82 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

You need to recheck your facts yet again. 

The 2x Tuners for recording isn't unique to the Eclipse as it's also offered by some other TV manufacturers.

The built-in surround sound processor is also offered by some other TV manufacturers. 

Picture-in-Picture - Also offered by some other TV manufacturers which include more than one tuner on their TVs. 

Motorised stand - Also offered by a certain German TV manufacturer already mentioned in this thread (although not to the same design or ability as the Eclipse, it's still a motorised stand nonetheless). 

So let's see, what's unique to the Eclipse that's left on your list?

PUC System interface & Multiroom capable interface.

The only other things unique to the Eclipse one might want to add to that list is the powerful 450 watt sound bar and maybe the design.    

Puncher
Top 10 Contributor
Durham
11,593 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
Puncher replied on Fri, Nov 24 2017 10:40 AM

Emil Jensen:

Puncher:

Which of these features are not in the soundbar?

What is your point exactly?

but to answer your question compared to C7:

You get 2 tuner for recording 

You get picture in picture

You get a full blown surround processor interface on the TV

multiroom capable interface

PUC system interface

motoricestand interface

 

OK - at this point I give up - enjoy your telly!

 

Ban boring signatures!

vikinger
Top 25 Contributor
Vestri Kirkjubyr, UK
5,337 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
vikinger replied on Fri, Nov 24 2017 11:00 AM

From a question in the Eclipse thread..........

http://www.qvcuk.com/b&o-play-by-bang-&-olufsen/electronics/_/N-1z13xyrZlfof/c.html

Graham

Page 5 of 8 (109 items) « First ... < Previous 3 4 5 6 7 Next > ... Last » | RSS
Beoworld Security Certificate

SSL