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The new BeoVision Eclipse : POLL - Have your vote!

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9 LEE
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9 LEE Posted: Thu, Aug 31 2017 8:30 PM

Basically, what the thread says.  Both positive and negative comments have been aired on here and, sadly, mostly negative on the B&O Facebook Page.  The man who clapped his hands together  two times in the launch video has been given a pair of H9's, personal thanks from the CEO, and a tour of the factory apparently.

(I'm joking)

Anyway - what do we think of the new BeoVision Eclipse?  It'd be nice to see in numbers and percentages instead of a melee of comments.

Over to you good people.

 

BeoVision Eclipse - Darkness or Light?

As 'Design' and 'Value for Money' are the two key elements most important to a TV Buyer these days, here are nine permutations of Design and Value for Money. Which two elements do you think the Eclipse fits?

  • Absolute Design Classic and Great Value for Money (6.7%)
  • Absolute Design Classic but Average Value for Money (19.2%)
  • Absolute Design Classic but Awful Value for Money (7.7%)
  • Average Design but Great Value for Money (0%)
  • Average Design and Average Value for Money (12.5%)
  • Average Design and Awful Value for Money (36.5%)
  • Awful Design but Great Value for Money (0%)
  • Awful Design and Average Value for Money (4.8%)
  • Awful Design and Awful Value for Money (12.5%)
  • Total Votes: 104
Millemissen
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I suppose only those, who have experienced the BV Eclipse liv, are allowed to vote, or?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Thu, Aug 31 2017 10:44 PM

Millemissen:

I suppose only those, who have experienced the BV Eclipse liv, are allowed to vote, or?

What is it with B&O 'fans' who insist the entire view will change when you see something? That's never happened to me. I've never changed any judgement based on seeing something in person.

I've seen OLED screens - I know what they deliver. It's a struggle to get your head around this, but I've heard the BL7.2 and all kinds of speakers flanking my BVs, so I have a good idea of "great audio". I can see how it looks from various photos and videos.

So, why, apart from the dealer trying his best to convince me otherwise, does seeing something "in person" convert you from a pessimist to an object optimist? Please do explain.

Stan
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Stan replied on Thu, Aug 31 2017 10:49 PM

Millemissen:

I suppose only those, who have experienced the BV Eclipse liv, are allowed to vote, or?

MM

I agree with these sentiments to a degree.  After all, it's unfair to judge unless you've seen it.  Then again, there's so few retailers in the US, that one may have to travel hours (or take well planned holidays) to see one in the flesh...  Therefore, the pictures and videos available are going to have to be good enough to entice a potential buyer to embark on a journey.  Therefore, I think we're going to have to live with votes from people who have not seen it.  It's just a website poll, after all.

Not to start a new thread, but a lot of this feedback reminds me of the BL5 introduction.  Almost everyone on Beoworld hated them and thought they were insanely priced.  Now, loved by most.  Granted, this comparison isn't quite apples-to-apples since much of the dislike of Eclipse is focused on the "LG inside" (but then, B&O didn't invent the acoustic lens - also called an ugly abomination back then).   

Stan

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9 LEE replied on Thu, Aug 31 2017 11:06 PM

MM has a point in a way.  Sometimes you need to see something in the flesh in order to make a totally correct assessment.

However, there's a saying which goes "first impressions last" - and if you don't like the look, or the price, then you can indeed make a fairly well-informed judgement without even seeing it.  We all have different taste, and different criteria when buying.

Also the fact that many people buy (or plan to buy) these days based solely on reviews and opinions of others.  We lived in a connected world, where the thoughts of others can sway our decisions.  Look at sites like TripAdvisor, What HiFi, What Car and so on.  If they give a car, hotel or AV product '1 Star' then most people won't pursue a potential purchase any further.  They move on...

All food for thought.  Personally, I'll be voting either way when I see it in person tomorrow. I have my initial impressions, of course - but as a B&O fan and supporter of the brand I'm saying nothing until I've had a demo!

One thing you can rely on, though..  I'll be honest.

Lee

 

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Puncher replied on Thu, Aug 31 2017 11:49 PM

There's no doubt the LG panel is at least among the best picture quality avaliable. Similarly,  there's no doubt the TV has an "internal" sound system to beat all competitors.

The styling is a personal preference which will excite some while boring others.

I think the key here is whether B&O are taking the mick and charging you a premium for the same LG TV you can buy elsewhere just because they are selling you their stand and soundbar in a lumped package. If they are making a significant markup on selling you a standard LG TV panel available elsewhere for significantly less then that is bang out of order and a sign of desperation on their part, seemingly reliant on the blissful ignorance of the vast bulk of their potential customers. 

Ban boring signatures!

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Puncher:

I think the key here is whether B&O are taking the mick and charging you a premium for the same LG TV you can buy elsewhere just because they are selling you their stand and soundbar in a lumped package.

 

That's why MM refers to "seeing in the flesh".

I 've seen it this morning and had the opportunity to watch different content for half an hour.

I didn't find it lumpy at all. That's personal I think. Among all the panels you can buy these days, they all look the same and need a soundbar.

Despite the fact that members call it a bad BV7 imitation, I find it a complete nice all in one solution.

Finally a worthy replacement for my BV9. Both in sound and more important picture quality. No static, unnatural, computerish LCD image.

This is definitely a winner for me.

But I have to admit, I hate the LG menulook.

 

 

Mikael
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Mikael replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 7:32 AM

I really believe that B&O could have smashed it out of the park by pricing it at 50.000DKR incl. basic stand (Official price: 70.000DKR). 

That would make it the cheapest Beovision (Except for Horizon) which would make a lot of positive feed back. Furthermore it would only be a premium of 30-35.000 DKR over the similar LG OLED, which I think a lot more people would see as good value for a B&O soundbar and B&O styled TV.

A value proposition like that would also make people more accepting of the half-baked  user-interface. Existing owners can comfort them selves in knowing that they have a more streamlined user experience and a true B&O product, and that should relieve  some of the pain of having bought a more expensive TV. 

Pricing it lower will of cause more or less kill the sales of their other TVs (Beovision 11, 14 and Avant). But the Beovison 11 (and to some extend 14) are still B&O classics with a loved design, that can command a higher price point. The Horizon would still be the cheapest TV by a significant margin. 

Beoplay V1 with Beo4, Beolab 14.4 and ATV4/Chromecast.

Beoplay A2, A9mki (w/ Chromecast Audio), H2, H3, H8.

 

bayerische
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I'm still happy with my BV9. IMHO the best B&O made. Sure it's thick and heavy, but it has design, and a lot of space for peripherals, that I need. 

 

Hopefully mine still lasts a long time. 

Too long to list.... 

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Ammier replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 8:02 AM

Mikael:

I really believe that B&O could have smashed it out of the park by pricing it at 50.000DKR incl. basic stand (Official price: 70.000DKR). 

That would make it the cheapest Beovision (Except for Horizon) which would make a lot of positive feed back. Furthermore it would only be a premium of 30-35.000 DKR over the similar LG OLED, which I think a lot more people would see as good value for a B&O soundbar and B&O styled TV.

A value proposition like that would also make people more accepting of the half-baked  user-interface. Existing owners can comfort them selves in knowing that they have a more streamlined user experience and a true B&O product, and that should relieve  some of the pain of having bought a more expensive TV. 

Pricing it lower will of cause more or less kill the sales of their other TVs (Beovision 11, 14 and Avant). But the Beovison 11 (and to some extend 14) are still B&O classics with a loved design, that can command a higher price point. The Horizon would still be the cheapest TV by a significant margin. 

I completely agree with this.

I was just checking out the latest news from IFA and Loewe have now launched an even cheaper oled bild 3 (55inch): 

https://www.pressebox.de/pressemitteilung/loewe-technologies-gmbh/Neu-Loewe-bild-3-Living-Smart-Der-passt-Ueberall/boxid/869456

On top of that they showed a design preview of the bild x, like the did 3 months prior to the launch bild 9: https://www.bodosperlein.com/loewe-bild-x

These TV's are all made in Germany and utilise German video processing etc. I just dont understand why B&O cant do the same, I mean Loewe was bankrupt before they were bought out by their German fund and they managed to relaunch their entire portfolio in 12-18 months. B&O announce a partnership in same period and we get 1 television. I say this not to promote Loewe over B&O, I genuinely want B&O to succeed here, I just dont understand how the business strategy is working. If they want to focus on audio they should just pull out of the TV market rather than releasing a re-badged product with a mark up and even thats a dangerous game. We all know with Beats, Airpods and Homepods Apple is slowly moving into Beoplay's market so the competition will only get worst from here.

If the bild 3 oled is 2k, for me its just a bit of a no brainer. The design is slightly above average, I can connect by Beolab 20's as I dont have a surround set up and I can upgrade every couple of years....happy days.... However at the right price I would have bought the eclipse....

BenSA
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BenSA replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 8:47 AM

So far the reviews have been good....

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/30/16224938/lg-bang-olufsen-4k-hdr-motorized-stand-beovision-eclipse

https://www.engadget.com/2017/08/31/bang-and-olufsen-beovision-eclipse-impressions/

http://www.techradar.com/news/bo-beovision-eclipse-is-an-lg-oled-tv-with-big-style-and-sound-upgrades

BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 9:59 AM
But these are not reviews but copy/paste press releases !
AngloApulian
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BeoGreg:

But these are not reviews but copy/paste press releases !

No they’re not. They’re what the media like to call “Previews/First Looks”.

The Engadget article also has a video where the journalist/reporter gives his first impressions of the TV and his opinion on some of the design aesthetics.
BenSA
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BenSA replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 10:26 AM

AngloApulian:
BeoGreg:

 

But these are not reviews but copy/paste press releases !

 

 

No they’re not. They’re what the media like to call “Previews/First Looks”.

 

 

The Engadget article also has a video where the journalist/reporter gives his first impressions of the TV and his opinion on some of the design aesthetics.

Exactly and he's standing right in front of the Eclipse so its a hands on report, maybe not in depth but still a real first impression.

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svinaik replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 10:39 AM

moxxey:

Millemissen:

I suppose only those, who have experienced the BV Eclipse liv, are allowed to vote, or?

What is it with B&O 'fans' who insist the entire view will change when you see something? That's never happened to me. I've never changed any judgement based on seeing something in person.

I've seen OLED screens - I know what they deliver. It's a struggle to get your head around this, but I've heard the BL7.2 and all kinds of speakers flanking my BVs, so I have a good idea of "great audio". I can see how it looks from various photos and videos.

So, why, apart from the dealer trying his best to convince me otherwise, does seeing something "in person" convert you from a pessimist to an object optimist? Please do explain.

Totally agree. On that note, I have ordered BL 50 without even looking or listening to them. Just second hand reviews and my confidence on B&O on the loud speakers and personal experience on BL 5 & BL 90 does it all for me.

 

If it is truer here for BL 50, why not for Eclipse ?

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 10:52 AM

BenSA:

So far the reviews have been good....

Reviews? This is just a news piece based on press feedback and a quick viewing, like I did for the E8's:

https://www.shortmotivation.com/2017/08/beoplay-announce-e8-wireless-earbuds-available-from-october/

Far from a review. Just an initial opinion.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 10:56 AM

svinaik:

Totally agree. 

The key thing is, it works both ways:

Avant. Spent ages at my dealer's looking it over and bought it after three visits. After about six months traded it in as I couldn't cope with the terrible motion and ridiculously sharp image. So, "seeing it in the dealer" is no guarantee of lastability.

BV12-65. Never seen one in person, but I'd seen images and heard other people's feedback. Bought one (without testing it) and it's the nest TV I've ever bought. Proving I didn't need to see it in person to make the decision.

Besides, we're all seasoned B&O professionals. We know what to expect. I'm hardly likely to walk in to my dealer and be blown away by the Eclipse audio and come away thinking "didn't expect that, it's blown my mind" after years of listening to various B&O speakers and BeoPlay devices.

If we can't make a qualified opinion based on images, videos and other sources, plus tap in to our knowledge of what to expect from B&O, then we might as well give up right now.

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I was teetering between design classic and average design.  From a designers perspective, it's polarising and that's what they are hoping for. 

I don't know how much it is in Aussie dollars so i dont know how if it is average value for money, but being that every time you go in to a B&O store the products keep getting more expensive every few months. 

So being that it is a premium product you're paying for the Sound Centre, the integration and the stand and remote option, something you probably wouldn't have had if you purchased a stand alone TV of another brand you would not have.  Probably what B&O thought people buy their TVs for.  But people buy their TVs also for a different reason. 

The design is a re-hash and i think its a lazy design, albeit it's functional because the speaker is wider to allow for the mechanism which holds the bracket either on the left or the right. 

Nothing else looks like it and that's why i think its a design classic.

I think the reason there is the glass below the speaker is so that it mimics the BV10/11/14.

I love Torsten but so many people here say "oh i love D.Lewis" - personally , I never liked him and being that Torsten is now with D Lewis designers i think he has become lazy.

Is it a complete product?  It's not the typical B&O TV product, but if i can operate it just as i would as I do my Avant, then to me it's a complete product. 

Will it bring new customers to B&O?  I think it will.

Will i buy it?  Depends on how i feel when i see it.

What would have made the product more special?  Either if the TV rose from behind the glass and the speaker, or if the glass panel was in front of the speaker and dropped down to reveal the speaker.

 

BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 11:56 AM
BenSA:

Exactly and he's standing right in front of the Eclipse so its a hands on report, maybe not in depth but still a real first impression.

You said it, "a real first impression". Far far away from a review where you rate built/picture/sound quality, compared it to the competition with detailed figures...
BenSA
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BenSA replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 12:04 PM

BeoGreg:
BenSA:

 

Exactly and he's standing right in front of the Eclipse so its a hands on report, maybe not in depth but still a real first impression.

 

 

 

You said it, "a real first impression". Far far away from a review where you rate built/picture/sound quality, compared it to the competition with detailed figures...

First impression is when you first see it without having delved deeply into the technical figures etc....they could have said that it looks hideous  or it doesn't have this or that like some people on the forum who haven't even seen it or tested it. They have reserved their final judgement for when they have tested it properly. That for me is playing fair. Don't bash it till you have seen or tried it. If you don't like it after that then fair play.

xps60
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xps60 replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 12:36 PM

Obviously the conflict between the designers from the speakers department and their colleagues from the displays department could not be resolved. This is the result. A design nightmare.

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BeoGreg replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 2:20 PM
BenSA:

First impression is when you first see it without having delved deeply into the technical figures etc....they could have said that it looks hideous or it doesn't have this or that like some people on the forum who haven't even seen it or tested it. They have reserved their final judgement for when they have tested it properly. That for me is playing fair. Don't bash it till you have seen or tried it. If you don't like it after that then fair play.

I was just surprised by the word review when my dealer hasn't installed the set yet.

Looking forward for our friend at flatpanel with a full review !
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 2:25 PM

Nothing else looks like it and that's why i think its a design classic.

You could say the same thing about the south end of a northbound mule, but it hardly makes it a "classic." This product encapsulates, to me, all that is wrong with the Modern B&O Company. It's a kludge, a bunch of off the shelf parts for the most part, glued together without much style, and they want extremely high prices for it. At least it has Netflix, apparently B&O realizes that not putting a Netflix button on the remote is a loser of an idea, I'm betting LG forced them to do it.

I think after all the dust settles the BV12 will go down as the best TV B&O made.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 2:50 PM

Jeff:

Nothing else looks like it and that's why i think its a design classic.

You could say the same thing about the south end of a northbound mule, but it hardly makes it a "classic."

I can't even get my head around how someone thinks a standard off-the-shelf LG panel, slotted into a BV7-style soundbar, makes it a "classic". In many ways it looks *worse* than the BV7 which I bought in....2004.

Truly funny how people view design in different ways. Ok, not saying I'm going to get a Loewe, but at least they are *trying* to do something different/unique.

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BenSA replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 3:03 PM

moxxey:

Jeff:

Nothing else looks like it and that's why i think its a design classic.

You could say the same thing about the south end of a northbound mule, but it hardly makes it a "classic."

I can't even get my head around how someone thinks a standard off-the-shelf LG panel, slotted into a BV7-style soundbar, makes it a "classic". In many ways it looks *worse* than the BV7 which I bought in....2004.

Truly funny how people view design in different ways. Ok, not saying I'm going to get a Loewe, but at least they are *trying* to do something different/unique.

I really don't see whats so special about how a Loewe looks. Most of their offerings looks like its a just a screen.  I doubt anyone is going to walk into a lounge and notice a Loewe.....put an eclipse in a lounge and you are very likely to get a question or two!! I won't go into build quality as I have never looked closely or tried a Loewe

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davidr replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 3:11 PM

BenSA:

..put an eclipse in a lounge and you are very likely to get a question or two!!

Right, "..the hell is that?".

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Duels replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 3:22 PM
BenSA:

I really don't see whats so special about how a Loewe looks. Most of their offerings looks like its a just a screen. I doubt anyone is going to walk into a lounge and notice a Loewe.....put an eclipse in a lounge and you are very likely to get a question or two!! I won't go into build quality as I have never looked closely or tried a Loewe

I have a Loewe individual. From a design point of view I would put it half way between a B&O and a regular TV. It does look different from the norm and it does get comments although nowhere near as many as my B&O stuff does.

Quality is good.

It cost £3,500 which suited my budget at the time when I could have spent £8k on B&O or £1k on a regular brand.
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5:8:13 replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 4:11 PM

I saw it in the flesh, but not operating, on Wednesday and thought it to be stylistically an excellent evolution of BV7. With BV7 I always thought the sound bar to be visually awkward; in the Eclipse although projecting from the sides it appears well integrated - its presence enhancing an otherwise large black glass rectangle.

The BV 10/11 which I still have and love was inspired, but did not work so well in the larger sizes.

By its very nature a premium product will always have to be exceptional in all ways to be 'great' value for money.

In the current market B&O cannot afford to have the first models tainted by software glitches.

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xps60:

Obviously the conflict between the designers from the speakers department and their colleagues from the displays department could not be resolved. This is the result. A design nightmare.

Not at all - that is certainly not the way it works in Struer, when they make new products!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Hungedu
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Hungedu replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 4:35 PM

The BeoVision Eclipse design is really starting to grow on me after viewing the photos each day. I hated the BeoLab 5 when it first came out. Now, it is one of my most prized B&O pieces. I first thought that the BeoVision7 was awkward with its protruding lower speaker, then I fell in love with the design and bought my 7-55. I can't wait to see the Eclipse in person. My only reservation is the new OLED longevity and lack of B&O classic features such as the curtain effect. I can definitely see myself having the 55 inch in one of my extra rooms in the near future.

BeoLab 5, BeoVision 7-55 MK2, BeoSound 5 Encore, BeoSound 9000, BeoLab Penta III, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2, BeoLab 7-6, BeoSound 8, BeoTime (analog clock), Beo 4 remote.

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KMA replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 5:33 PM
I'm leaning towards getting the 55" as well. That is my brand-loyal heart speaking; my rationale still questions the value proposition, but that is, at the end of the day, only about money that would go somewhere in any case.

I may wait to hear if people notice any teething problems with Eclipse. I know the potential issues with the C7 panels, but I am assuming that for these sets, LG picks grade A panels/C7 sets that do not have vertical bands in the near-black picture.

Also, perhaps B&O will do some sort of a campaign before the holiday season to speed up sales. Or perhaps my dealer will again make an offer I cannot refuse, as they did with both BV10 and BV11.

KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 5:40 PM

BenSA:

I really don't see whats so special about how a Loewe looks. Most of their offerings looks like its a just a screen.  I doubt anyone is going to walk into a lounge and notice a Loewe.....put an eclipse in a lounge and you are very likely to get a question or two!! I won't go into build quality as I have never looked closely or tried a Loewe

The two "special" parts are

1) It's a fusion of elements that Loewe have properly put together, rather than a bit of a kludge with the Eclipse (panel slotting into the soundbar). And the Bild 5 is a decent attempt at a unique design. Why is the Eclipse any better?

2) It's fairly competitively priced!

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Now - that is a Loewe fanboy  Big Smile

MM

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moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 8:48 PM

Millemissen:

Now - that is a Loewe fanboy  Big Smile

Hardly. How do you define that when a) I only own B&O and b) have no Loewe and no intention of swapping my BV12/BV11 for Loewe.

But it's about creating a balanced discussion and I appreciate what they've done to integrate the LG panel correctly, alongside Loewe software and menus, unlike the kludge B&O has given us with the Eclipse (which you overlook).

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Sandyb replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 9:24 PM
Kludge = gooey mess, for those in doubt

Millemissen
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Could it be that the intention of B&O was more like offering us an upgrated BeoSystem4 (with WiSA built-in and native support for the HD multichannel sound formats plus the functionallity of a BS Core) and a powerfull 3.0 speaker part....

....and let those, who understand modern OLED-tv technology do the rest.

And, oh - I forgot the BeoRemote One controlling of the package --- and the advanced stand options, that we are used to from a BeoVision.

Is that what I overlooked?

MM

 

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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moxxey:

Millemissen:

Now - that is a Loewe fanboy  Big Smile

Hardly. How do you define that when a) I only own B&O and b) have no Loewe and no intention of swapping my BV12/BV11 for Loewe.

But it's about creating a balanced discussion and I appreciate what they've done to integrate the LG panel correctly, alongside Loewe software and menus, unlike the kludge B&O has given us with the Eclipse (which you overlook).

Could it be that the intention of B&O was more like offering us an upgradet version of the BeoSystem 4 (with built-in WiSA, native support for the HD multichannel sound formats and the functionality of a BeoSound Core/NL multiroom) and a powerfull 3.0 speaker part created by the Acoustic Department in Struer.

...and let those, who understand modern OLED tv technology, do the picture part. 

And, oh - I forgot the BeoRemote One controlling of the package and the advanced stand option, that we are used to from a BeoVision.

Did I 'overlook' more?

The Loewe OLEDs are just ordinary modern tv's for picture aficionados like the rest of the OLED-based tv...IMO.

MM

 

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Peter
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Peter replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 10:04 PM

Not a particularly stunning design, though until we have screens that can unroll, it will be tricky to do much more than make a black rectangle with a soundbar if necessary. Now if the screen unfurled from behind the soundbar, that would be clever. Lack of usual B&O operating niceties also disappointing - I actually prefer the BV7 as the sound bar is clearly separate emphasising the expected sound quality - I also wonder where the picture actually starts - is there a border above the sound bar? Price seems commensurate with product - B&O TVs are expensive - but then they used to have a large B&O element.

Peter

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 10:07 PM

Millemissen:

Now - that is a Loewe fanboy  Big Smile

MM

Says the man with B&O logos on his knee pads. Stick out tongue

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Sep 1 2017 10:31 PM

Sandyb:
Kludge = gooey mess, for those in doubt

Hmm, not sure I'd say gooey? Kludge to me is a fusion of mixed elements which don't quite "work". You kind of kludge things together which shouldn't quite fit together.

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