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BEOVISION ECLIPSE

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JFJBrussels
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Thanks a lot for these great and accurate explanations.

Do not worry, I am still planning to buy B&O device. My only concern is that C7 lacks fluidity, especially compared to Sony (same panel, with their own technology). This is something I could notice watching live TV.

tigerisak
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tigerisak replied on Mon, Jul 23 2018 12:58 PM

I agree. The LG motion is not as good as the Sony. I got the Eclipse now for a long time and Im still waiting for the new FW update to correct the issue.

JFJBrussels
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I did not know about this expected update. I hope it will solve the issue, because apart from this, Eclipse is a very nice product. let us know if you notice a difference. All the best for you !

JFJBrussels
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Apart from this, are you satisfied with your purchase?

Fidse
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Fidse replied on Mon, Jul 23 2018 4:20 PM
tigerisak:

I agree. The LG motion is not as good as the Sony. I got the Eclipse now for a long time and Im still waiting for the new FW update to correct the issue.

I have both an Eclipse and a C7. The C7 has got the update and i can tell you that it’s not really that big of a difference.

The motion processing of the C7 (and Eclipse) is not as bad as the ongoing debate might lead you to think. Bad settings will cause motion blur, but correct set up, it’s very nice and the A1 is not much, if at all, better.

Perhaps for very compressed and old material, Sony’s engine does a better job “upscaling” But when watching Blu-Rays and newer content, the LG does a very fine job if set up correctly. Both with and without the software update.

So don’t sit back and wait fir miracles, it won’t happen. If you want a better picture on your Eclipse, call a proffessional calibrator, THAT makes a HUGE difference!

Just my 2 cents.
tigerisak
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tigerisak replied on Mon, Jul 23 2018 7:36 PM

The problem when watching content from Apple TV or the native app is that the content itself is mainly recorded in 23.976 fps and the TV is upscaling it to 50 hz. When in true cinema the picture only shows 24 fps and is in my opinion not as smooth as the 50 hz motion handling the Sony performs. 

When watching the World Cup in 50fps and 4K the LG showed us what it could do. But with content of 1080p and 23.976 fps it doesn't really does the job in my opinion. The sound and design is amazing though. 

StUrrock
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StUrrock replied on Mon, Jul 23 2018 10:13 PM

fu21:

yes.

And twice on Sundays

Smile

StUrrock
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StUrrock replied on Mon, Jul 23 2018 10:15 PM

mrCTE:

Good man fu21! 

Do ignore the angry negativity, it’s no wonder this community feels less and less relevant. 

Maybe B&O need their own Discourse community...

It was a joke!

I find the lack of humour makes it even less relevant.

 

Fidse
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Fidse replied on Mon, Jul 23 2018 10:27 PM
Well there we are different.

I would never “upscale” 24fps films.

I think they are shot in 24p and should be viewed like that. Where the motion handling comes to use, is with tv shows, documentaries etc. and yes, there the Sony might have a slight upper hand, but to my eyes at least, it’s to little to affect my user experience.

I’ve turned ALL of the processing off on both my Eclipse and my C7 and i would probably do the same if i had an A1, perhaps for broadcast tv, i would apply a bit, But never for watching movies.

It handles football matches very well too, i think.

tigerisak:

The problem when watching content from Apple TV or the native app is that the content itself is mainly recorded in 23.976 fps and the TV is upscaling it to 50 hz. When in true cinema the picture only shows 24 fps and is in my opinion not as smooth as the 50 hz motion handling the Sony performs.

When watching the World Cup in 50fps and 4K the LG showed us what it could do. But with content of 1080p and 23.976 fps it doesn't really does the job in my opinion. The sound and design is amazing though.

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Marcello replied on Tue, Jul 24 2018 9:12 AM

Exactly. And now the Apple TV has finally the option to automatically switch the TV frame rate in order to match the one of the content you are watching.

 

Fidse:
Well there we are different.

 

I would never “upscale” 24fps films.

 

I think they are shot in 24p and should be viewed like that. Where the motion handling comes to use, is with tv shows, documentaries etc. and yes, there the Sony might have a slight upper hand, but to my eyes at least, it’s to little to affect my user experience.

 

 

I’ve turned ALL of the processing off on both my Eclipse and my C7 and i would probably do the same if i had an A1, perhaps for broadcast tv, i would apply a bit, But never for watching movies.

 

 

It handles football matches very well too, i think.

 

tigerisak:

 

The problem when watching content from Apple TV or the native app is that the content itself is mainly recorded in 23.976 fps and the TV is upscaling it to 50 hz. When in true cinema the picture only shows 24 fps and is in my opinion not as smooth as the 50 hz motion handling the Sony performs.

 

When watching the World Cup in 50fps and 4K the LG showed us what it could do. But with content of 1080p and 23.976 fps it doesn't really does the job in my opinion. The sound and design is amazing though.

 

 

 

elephant
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elephant replied on Tue, Jul 24 2018 12:32 PM
Fidse:

I’ve turned ALL of the processing off on both my Eclipse and my C7

Apologies if you have answered this before ...

As an owner of both an Eclipse and an LG C7 how do you Right the B&O-ness of the Eclipse and the price difference?

BeoNut since '75

elephant
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elephant replied on Tue, Jul 24 2018 12:34 PM
elephant:

Apologies if you have answered this before ...

As an owner of both an Eclipse and an LG C7 how do you Right the B&O-ness of the Eclipse and the price difference? BeoNut since '75

Right was meant to be Rate !

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Fidse
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Fidse replied on Tue, Jul 24 2018 8:15 PM
elephant:

Apologies if you have answered this before ...

As an owner of both an Eclipse and an LG C7 how do you Right the B&O-ness of the Eclipse and the price difference? BeoNut since '75

The Eclipse was actually my first ever B&O product (besides a pair of Beoform 15 years ago)

I come from the World of seperates and have been through A LOT of different setups. My last was a Marantz/Triangle/Earthquake 5.2.2 Dolby Atmos setup in a dedicated theater room. But after we got a mini me in the house, i simply did’nt use it. I sold of the theater and bought an Eclipse and a Beolab 19 for the living room instead. (Replacing a hugely expensive Densen / System Audio setup with a B6 OLED) because i wanted something that worked smoothly and looked geourgeous. I was looking at the BV14 because i loved the looks, but once you go OLED, it’s impossible to go back. The Eclipse covers all of my needs and i actually dont miss my floorstand speakers. I love the ease of use when i can start anything i want with the push of a single button on the BR1 and i absolutely love the look of it, after the Wood grill.

That to me is B&O in a nutshell. I know it does’nt have curtains or a moving speaker, but those things are not important to me, so i rate the “B&O’ness” of it very highly.

As for the price difference I’m not gonna comment much, of course it’s not worth that much extra money. Has a Beovision ever really been that, like REALLY...?

I know I’m gonna step on some toes here, where a BV12 (IMHO the best ever BV) really worth 3-4 times a Pioneer 9050?
Steffen
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Steffen replied on Tue, Jul 24 2018 11:32 PM

Fidse:
As for the price difference I’m not gonna comment much, of course it’s not worth that much extra money. Has a Beovision ever really been that, like REALLY...?

 

I know I’m gonna step on some toes here, where a BV12 (IMHO the best ever BV) really worth 3-4 times a Pioneer 9050?

 

To answer your question, if a Beovision has ever been worth the extra money:

I would say yes... In the times of CRT tv's. Back in those days, almost every tv-set looked like crap - big ugly grey or black plastic boxes. B&O was almost the only company in the whole world, that offered a "decent" looking tv (Finlux made a few well designed tv-sets too).

I remember in the 90's when I bought my first new tv (before that I had a BV 3602 bought second-hand) -a Beovision LX6000 mkII. The price was almost the same as the top tv-sets from Philips or Sony... Maybe 1000 extra DKKr (approx. 150US$) for a TV that one would actually like to look at -also when it was turned off.Big Smile

Then came the Flat-screens - and it was like B&O's prices exploded... I mean - you could buy a 28" MX8000 in Denmark for appr. 15.000 DKKr - when a BV 6 - 26" costed almost 30.000..! 

OK - The first flatscreens from Sony, Philips, JVC etc. was also quite expensive -but prices declined rapidly, while B&O's prices stayed the same. And later the Beovisions just became more and more expensive, while other TV's became cheaper and cheaper. 

So, I would say - for many years, a Beovision has not been worth the extra money... If you only look at specs, compared to other brands. But, then again: Is a Dolce & Gabbana bag worth the extra money? Is a Rolls Royce worth the extra money? For those who have the money and is willing to pay the price, it IS worth the extra money.

Emil Jensen
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Value is always a difficult term, as some put value in good materiels, some dont, and so on.

Another way to look at it, can you get a similar packets in one TV as you do with the Eclipse?

Not really, so off cause it is going to cost more then other,

The thing I enjoy the most is the motorstand, and you cant get to 2 axle stand anywhere else.

My experience is the same as Fidse, easy to control, very good tv, would buy again.

And compared to the AVANT and BV11 at the time, as good a value.

Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 20, Beosound 1 Google assist, Beoplay M3, Beoplay H6

Chris Townsend
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Yes you can. My Loewe Bild 65 has a decent built in speaker, and an Av processor. It also has Loewes own processing and interface (not LGs) and of course....electronic curtains.

Does it look as good cosmetically? Nope. Is that worth the £8,500 extra? Definitely not.

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moxxey
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moxxey replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 11:46 AM

Emil Jensen:

Value is always a difficult term, as some put value in good materiels, some dont, and so on.

Twice I tried replying to this yesterday, twice BeoWorld went down when clicking "Post"!

Anyway, I added yesterday that value is an interesting term. I place value on various things, such as my support for the brand (B&O), the amount of craft and effort they put in to these products (I question the effort with this Eclipse), the likelihood of my local dealer closing down (which has happened recently) and the amount of effort the dealer puts in to supporting their products.

For example, when I owned a BV7-40 in the past, I had numerous issues, but the local dealer constantly questioned the issues with B&O, they regularly sent an engineer to run tests and when the MKIV set stopped working after 6 months, simply sent an engineer to swap out the TV.

You know....in 2018....I doubt there's quite so much effort and attention to detail at B&O. We see their poor customer support, dealers closing and software updates over the internet. Is it the same? Same kind of 'value'? Not sure. Doesn't feel as justified.

I buy into the entire concept and support, not just the TV itself.

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elephant replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 11:47 AM
Thank you all (Fidse, Steffens, Emil, Chris) for a spirited response to my question ... and almost 12 months after the launch of the Eclipse we still have strong contrasting views.

I can’t recall any previous product generating this response up front (products like the Moment became issues through poor experiences, but not out of the box OMG reactions).

I am amazed at the prices that the x7 OLEDs are now being offloaded at ... and the prices of the x8s. The premium delta for OLED seems to be shrinking.

Except at B&O [:\'(]

BeoNut since '75

elephant
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elephant replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 11:50 AM
Sorry Moxxey - I wasn’t ignoring your contributions - we were typing at the same time ..... and I had my fingers crossed mine want going to crash (every so often, like just then, I forget to take a copy for safety Angry)

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Emil Jensen
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Chris Townsend:
Yes you can. My Loewe Bild 65 has a decent built in speaker, and an Av processor. It also has Loewes own processing and interface (not LGs) and of course....electronic curtains.

 

 

Does it look as good cosmetically? Nope. Is that worth the £8,500 extra? Definitely not.

Hallo Chris,

Loewe does a good job, but they do not have all the functions and do not use as expensive materiels.

I looked a lot at Loewe because the pricepoint was very interesting, but when it came down to it, I missed to many function, so for me the add on in price was justified. 

Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 20, Beosound 1 Google assist, Beoplay M3, Beoplay H6

elephant
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elephant replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 12:03 PM
Emil Jensen:

I missed to many function, so for me the add on in price was justified.

Which functions did you miss if I may ask ?

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elephant
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elephant replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 12:08 PM
moxxey:

the likelihood of my local dealer closing down (which has happened recently)

In my case all the dealer staff would served me so well have been let go (some of whom I have known since 2002) ... so I am less inclined to pay the commission built into the B&O price to someone with whom I have had no relationship.

BeoNut since '75

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svinaik replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 12:10 PM

Emil Jensen:

Loewe does a good job, but they do not have all the functions and do not use as expensive materiels.

 

Which particular material did you find in Loewe which is less than Eclipse ??. I own a Loewe 7.77 and have very closely looked at materials used in Eclipse & Loewe and find actually Eclipse has lower quality material in the back. Front is all screen so it does not matter as both ought to be the same.

On rotating floor stands, Loewe has very classy matte grey brushed Aluminum stand with best of class fit and finish. Of course I would still rate B&O stands "functionality" better than Loewe as B&O is 2 axis rotation versus Loewe is just sideways rotation.

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svinaik:

Emil Jensen:

Loewe does a good job, but they do not have all the functions and do not use as expensive materiels.

 

Which particular material did you find in Loewe which is less than Eclipse ??. I own a Loewe 7.77 and have very closely looked at materials used in Eclipse & Loewe and find actually Eclipse has lower quality material in the back. Front is all screen so it does not matter as both ought to be the same.

On rotating floor stands, Loewe has very classy matte grey brushed Aluminum stand with best of class fit and finish. Of course I would still rate B&O stands "functionality" better than Loewe as B&O is 2 axis rotation versus Loewe is just sideways rotation.

The Soundcenter is made of Aluminium, very high standard, and it not really free to make.

The Bild 7 I did not find very appiling as the wool did not fit tight, at least not on the model I saw. Look at the BILD 9 and what it cost, materiel comes at a price.

Yes LOEWE stand is also very nice, but as you point out the two axle from B&O is better when it stand against the wall. 

Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 20, Beosound 1 Google assist, Beoplay M3, Beoplay H6

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I like this discussion very much and it is good to read and think about different views regarding the Eclipse.

What I sense we might have forgotten a bit is that B&O is actually a luxury brand, while Loewe (well, IMHO at least) is premium. And my take is that while premium you still buy with some value-for-money consideration, even if lesser then with a mainstream products, luxury stuff you buy because you can and you will and you love it and that's that. It is in higher percentage impulse-driven (didn't wanted to say: irrational) and I think comparisons between two categories with different paradigms are difficult to become conclusive as they are not 100% comparable. I don't know if that makes sense. :)

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elephant:
Emil Jensen:

 

I missed to many function, so for me the add on in price was justified.

 

 

Which functions did you miss if I may ask ?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but what it seem to me I would miss:

The two axle stand,

Not a bad remote but a not at all as good as Beoremote One

Mybuttons, I have 4 on mine.

A better Center speaker to compliment my Beolab 20, Loewe was not that close.

A better Surround processor

PUC abilities, Always found CEC rubbish though giving it many chances. PUC just works.

Radio integrated, and Direct from the Beoremote One (Can also choose stations now from Beoremote one)

Bluetooth/Airplay so I can play music from my Phone, great funktion.

WiSa for my speakers

Alu materiel, I also have the Alu speaker front.

 

Again please correct me if Loewe have any of these.

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svinaik replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 1:34 PM

AnalogPlanet:
my take is that while premium you still buy with some value-for-money consideration, even if lesser then with a mainstream products, luxury stuff you buy because you can and you will and you love it

Your comment is fairly true but somewhere you are assuming that those who choose to buy Loewe (or Premium brand in your words) "cannot" buy B&O. It is quite the contrary at least for many of us who owns loads of top of the line B&O stuff but chose to go Loewe route on the OLED TV.

Despite the fact that I "Can" buy Eclipse (affordability wise), I "chose" not to buy Eclipse and it is nothing to do with "Branding". When I buy premium or Luxury brands, I do not close my eyes to the facts. If the Luxury brand does not cut it for me, then so be it. 

Your sentiments are in the right place but I just wanted to add some additional color.

Emil Jensen
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svinaik:

AnalogPlanet:
my take is that while premium you still buy with some value-for-money consideration, even if lesser then with a mainstream products, luxury stuff you buy because you can and you will and you love it

Your comment is fairly true but somewhere you are assuming that those who choose to buy Loewe (or Premium brand in your words) "cannot" buy B&O. It is quite the contrary at least for many of us who owns loads of top of the line B&O stuff but chose to go Loewe route on the OLED TV.

Despite the fact that I "Can" buy Eclipse (affordability wise), I "chose" not to buy Eclipse and it is nothing to do with "Branding". When I buy premium or Luxury brands, I do not close my eyes to the facts. If the Luxury brand does not cut it for me, then so be it. 

Your sentiments are in the right place but I just wanted to add some additional color.

I agree that in many cases it is like that way as Analog Planet is saying,

But in my own case it sounds more like you svinaik. Just because you can buy, it is still interesting to find the right product and not just go into a lets say a B&O shop and pick out. At least I do a lot of reseach and normally I do not regret (My Samsung S8 though is a piece of #45%, back to IPhone next time)

In you case svinaik, how many chooses did you have? if you wanted a 77" then you could choose a AVANT 75, but thats LED and in my view not worth it when you can choose OLED.

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svinaik
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svinaik replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 2:17 PM

Emil Jensen:
In you case svinaik, how many chooses did you have? if you wanted a 77" then you could choose a AVANT 75, but thats LED and in my view not worth it when you can choose OLED.

Totally agree with you Emil...That is very true. LED 75 was not a choice for me at all.

To be honest, I did not start looking at 77 inch OLED but when I realized that I can get 77 inch Loewe at the same price as 65 Eclipse, any other thought was irrelevant for me.

In the end, we all are happy with our choices and that is most important.

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moxxey replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 3:58 PM

elephant:
moxxey:

the likelihood of my local dealer closing down (which has happened recently)

In my case all the dealer staff would served me so well have been let go (some of whom I have known since 2002) ... so I am less inclined to pay the commission built into the B&O price to someone with whom I have had no relationship.

My Bath dealer has closed TWICE in 5 years! Seriously. So the original dealer went bust, with my (small) TV deposit. About a year later, the Cardiff brand opened a Bath store in the same location. Claimed they were going to do it better, differently and so on. They closed the Bath store this year.

So, you can see why, from a support and longevity perspective, I'm not completely convinced. Or not convinced enough to spend £10K on a TV.

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elephant replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 5:31 PM
Thank you Emil - an interesting list

Some of which I would refused as mandatory for me !

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elephant
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elephant replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 5:54 PM
AnalogPlanet:

I like this discussion very much and it is good to read and think about different views regarding the Eclipse.

What I sense we might have forgotten a bit is that B&O is actually a luxury brand, while Loewe (well, IMHO at least) is premium. And my take is that while premium you still buy with some value-for-money consideration, even if lesser then with a mainstream products, luxury stuff you buy because you can and you will and you love it and that's that. It is in higher percentage impulse-driven (didn't wanted to say: irrational) and I think comparisons between two categories with different paradigms are difficult to become conclusive as they are not 100% comparable. I don't know if that makes sense. :)

Makes a lot of sense for me

BeoNut since '75

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moxxey replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 6:15 PM

AnalogPlanet:

What I sense we might have forgotten a bit is that B&O is actually a luxury brand

Actually? As in fact, actually?

The term 'luxury' by definition can't be stated it has to be earned. You don't become a luxury brand by telling people you are. And you can easily lose the definition, too.

You earn that right to call yourself a 'luxury brand' through:

1) Top quality robust products
2) Top quality support and post-sales care
3) Longevity
4) High resale values

If you look at a Patek Philippe watch, the brand meets all those criteria. If you look at a Jaguar car, the same.

The problem I have with B&O is many of those qualities are reducing or borderline lost:

1) Top quality robust products - I think most of us would argue that they aren't as 'robust' as they were 10 years ago
2) Top quality support and post-sales care - see TrustPilot reviews, Google reviews and similar feedback on here
3) Longevity - not as convinced, especially BeoPlay products
4) High resale values - sadly this is one of the weakest areas now and was originally their strongest

So, yes, I'm sure some of us will view B&O as a 'luxury' brand, especially Danes who grew up with the brand as home-grown. But it's not quite the same level it once was and is likely to be overtaken by Loewe on at least 1) and 2)

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w5bno123 replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 7:38 PM
moxxey:

My Bath dealer has closed TWICE in 5 years! Seriously. So the original dealer went bust, with my (small) TV deposit. About a year later, the Cardiff brand opened a Bath store in the same location. Claimed they were going to do it better, differently and so on. They closed the Bath store this year.

So, you can see why, from a support and longevity perspective, I'm not completely convinced. Or not convinced enough to spend £10K on a TV.

But don’t you think when the store moved to where it was last located that was in fact the death nail in the coffin for Bath. The original store in Argyle St was perfectly placed for brand awareness and was well received by passing trade, it would have preformed even better today IMO with the full Play range and the passing footfall than it did 15 years ago. Back then Bath was a top 10 UK store out of 120 and one of the highest performing stores in the global network along with Kingston, once again closed!

Regards

Stuart

Ealing
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moxxey:
If you look at a Jaguar car, the same.

Owned by Indian Tata Motors, with Ford engines. The epitome of luxury. Big Smile

OT: your definition of luxury brand is not Kotler's either but I agree on many aspects, and would add superb aesthetic and premium materials. Anyway, it is true what you said that it is not the same level it once was and my personal top "offender" here is the fact it is not produced in Danmark anymore. Someone else will find another main reason why the luxury attribute could by diminished.

That said, I still believe B&O is today a luxury brand - for how long will they be able to maintain that perception I cannot say. I agree also with your remark regarding TrustPilot reviews, especially now that Beoplay comes back into the original B&O brand.

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Sandyb replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 8:34 PM

A hell of a lot of things are made in the Far East or somewhere similar, even top end iPhones.

I don't think we should always assume thats a bad thing - indeed, iPhones for all their high cost are still regarded as superbly constructed, and yet are made in China. 

Of course there will still be some expensive products, be that in fashion or more mechanical items, that are still made more locally - but those cases are harder to find these days.

Anyway, i've got plenty of luxury things - and have to say half the time the after sales service is terrible. Porsche have no problems taking my money for a new car, but are awful in everything else (responsiveness to problems etc).

I wish it were otherwise, and more top end brands were better, but i think standards have slipped more generally.

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moxxey replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 9:06 PM

AnalogPlanet:

moxxey:
If you look at a Jaguar car, the same.

Owned by Indian Tata Motors, with Ford engines. The epitome of luxury. Big Smile

How do you equate that with perception? Few consumer's will know who ultimately owns a brand. Luxury earned through quality, service, and after-care, not taught. It doesn't matter who your owner is, ultimately. Same with B&O being part-owned by Chinese, too.

If *you* perceive B&O to be the strong luxury brand you claim it is, fair enough. Buy into it with that in mind. I'm not here to disagree. I'm saying it has to be earned and for me I've lost some faith.

And using your example of 'Ford engines', I grew up with everyone - literally everyone - saying that a B&O TV was simply a rebadged Phillips. Not too dissimilar. Again, incorrect, as Jaguar mostly uses it's own engines now. In the same manner you could argue a Panerai watch is 'luxury' and they used off-the-shelf customised ETA movements for years (they now use their own movement).

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 9:12 PM

w5bno123:
moxxey:

My Bath dealer has closed TWICE in 5 years! Seriously. So the original dealer went bust, with my (small) TV deposit. About a year later, the Cardiff brand opened a Bath store in the same location. Claimed they were going to do it better, differently and so on. They closed the Bath store this year.

So, you can see why, from a support and longevity perspective, I'm not completely convinced. Or not convinced enough to spend £10K on a TV.

But don’t you think when the store moved to where it was last located that was, in fact, the death nail in the coffin for Bath. The original store in Argyle St was perfectly placed for brand awareness and was well received by passing trade...

Yes and no. Living in Bath and knowing the original owner, they hated that location, too, for various reasons. Partly as it didn't suit a 'luxury' brand due to the number of people walking into the store (ironically, now, with the consumer BeoPlay products, the position would have been ideal) and wasting time watching TV in the store and so on.

The store owner constantly complained that they had so many people wander into the store simply to waste time - particularly on rugby days with the stadium a few hundred metres away - that they actually suffered as the missed the all-important Saturday trade. You'd get legit customers walk into the store on a Saturday and couldn't get attention as the staff were so busy fielding questions from people wasting time. They didn't know who was wasting their time as everyone had to be treated equally.

As for the Bath store being a top performer - it was. But that was also down to the wheeling and dealing by the owner, which B&O UK didn't like at all. He'd do any deal possible and I had a fantastic relationship with him. He'd give me a fantastic price for trading in a TV and a huge discount from the full price TV. That completely changed when the new owner took over, just before the big move. After the big move, it was partly due to the change (put on the new dealer by B&O UK) in style as much as the location.

After the move, I did far less business as all those deals went out the window. My guess is, other Bath customers were so shocked with the change, they did too.

Also, sadly, the move was out of their hands anyhow. The owner of the building sold the entire thing to a sports company who wanted multiple floors, so the move was forced on them.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Thu, Jul 26 2018 9:29 PM

Sandyb:

I wish it were otherwise, and more top end brands were better, but i think standards have slipped more generally.

Also, to be fair, the internet gives people a 'platform' to speak, which we didn't have 15 years ago. These days everyone can have a say and, sadly, normally it's the people who have something negative to say, who tend to say the most: hence lots of negative reviews.

I also agree service, on the whole, isn't as good as it used to be. I've flown business/first with BA a few times recently and it's a complete mixed bag. You can have a stunning flight with the best service, superbly cooked food etc. Fly again a few weeks later and you barely see the cabin crew, food service is slow or they are just grumpy. Or all three! I know the head of training at BA and he's constantly pulling his hair out over the inconsistency of service.

AnalogPlanet
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moxxey:
And using your example of 'Ford engines', I grew up with everyone - literally everyone - saying that a B&O TV was simply a rebadged Phillips. Not too dissimilar.

Hahaha, good point, obviously today with global economy it can't be avoided and it is not neccessarily a bad thing either. I'm actually happier with LG's OLED panels for Eclipse than LCDs for BV14/Horizon when it comes to tech relevance (mostly because of HDR) and I won't mind if B&O continues this partnership.

Granted, there is an ongoing discussion about "soundbar+stand" combo as a way forward - and I'm fine with that too. Loewe I like very much and I feel it is excellent value for money, but I would really really prefer to have the Eclipse because the design looks more extraordinary (love it!) and it would integrate well, especially through WISA, with other B&O products I have or plan to buy.

So my mind kind of says "Loewe", but I am still hopeful for B&O. LOL And that thought process was the source of my original post, but I didn't elaborate the story behind my view on premium vs luxury brands well enough. Interesting discussion in any case.

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