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BEOVISION ECLIPSE

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elephant
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elephant replied on Sat, May 5 2018 11:23 AM
Millemissen:

Isn’t that, what a lot of Beoworldern have been yearning for for some tine now.

Let’s see what ‘some fancy type of soundbar’ will bring...

If you misheard us maybe Struer did too.

What I, and others, said was:

- use you expertise to make a Beoplay sound bar

- drive profits and new customers that way

- then up sell those new customers to the true B&O Vision (pardon the deliberate pun)

We never said “abandon the beovision market place “ 😭

BeoNut since '75

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, May 5 2018 2:38 PM

elephant:
Millemissen:

 

Isn’t that, what a lot of Beoworldern have been yearning for for some tine now.

 

 

Let’s see what ‘some fancy type of soundbar’ will bring...

 

 

If you misheard us maybe Struer did too.

 

What I, and others, said was:

 

- use you expertise to make a Beoplay sound bar

 

- drive profits and new customers that way

 

- then up sell those new customers to the true B&O Vision (pardon the deliberate pun)

 

 

We never said “abandon the beovision market place “ 😭

Well, looking at the Eclipse, a soundbar tacked onto an LG panel, it appears B&O has already abandoned the Beovision marketplace, in every way that counts except for the overpriced part.

Jeff

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poodleboy
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Fidse:
Is it so far out to imagine a seperate sold soundcentre, with a hdmi connection as in the Eclipse, where you can plug it into any of LG’s OLED tv’s and have the same control of the panel, as with the Eclipse? It would more or less be the same as now, only with a longer hdmi cable.

That would in my mind make sense, as to the collaboration between B&O an LG. That way, you would get your intire B&O setup, BeoRemoteOne included, and could pick you tv between LG’s OLED models. They’ve also released a wifi-dongle so you can connect WISA speakers to any of LG’s OLED models, so perhaps this will be the future of the B&O/LG collaboration?

In your scenario, what does B&O bring to the party? The soundbar has a lighter feature set than the host. I think this soundbar should work with any tv and provide what any soundbar can. Reality check is that B&O just retreated from another business. What's left?

Regarding Loewe, to be fair, I really doubt Loewe offered B&O very much for their tech assets, and nothing for anything else. Foremost, B&O management team would be sent packing. I guess B&O is going to use the Louis XVI strategy. 

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IFA Berlin 2018 starts August 31st. Guess we’ll have most answers to different theories then. 

Fidse
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Fidse replied on Sat, May 5 2018 4:53 PM
poodleboy:

In your scenario, what does B&O bring to the party? The soundbar has a lighter feature set than the host. I think this soundbar should work with any tv and provide what any soundbar can. Reality check is that B&O just retreated from another business. What's left?

Regarding Loewe, to be fair, I really doubt Loewe offered B&O very much for their tech assets, and nothing for anything else. Foremost, B&O management team would be sent packing. I guess B&O is going to use the Louis XVI strategy.

BS9000, Essence, BeoLit12, MX4200, BL3000, BV11-55

The ability to control your intire B&O ecosystem including your OLED screen with a BeoRemoteOne. Meaning anything But panel and video software.
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Sandyb replied on Sat, May 5 2018 5:41 PM

Does not seem likely though.

With the Eclipse (where B&O were lets say, half out of the TV business), it is not fully integrated in the way that older BV's were.

With a B&O sound system, i'm guessing the integration will reduce, or at least not be what like it was with older BV's.

And will it even need a Beoremote? They are moving in the direction of voice control, with the app as a backup / secondary choice. I'd love a BR to control whatever the product may be, but i'm not hopeful. 

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Fidse replied on Sat, May 5 2018 7:35 PM
We will always need a remote. I myself would never use voice control, i find it wierd, and i can’t be the only one. App’s are good for backup and maybe for setup, But for everyday use, I’m pretty sure most people will still prefer a remote, at least for pretty long period still, this could of course change over time.

The reason I’m thinking it will be only for LG OLED’s, is that all the nessesary HW/SW is already here with the Eclipse. Only a software modulation seperates the Eclipse panel from the C7, making it very easy to just add a longer cable from the soundcenter, and software update any LG OLED. Also i feel pretty sure that LG has wanted more from the collaboration, than the handfull of panels they’ve sold for Eclipse’s so far.
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Sandyb replied on Sun, May 6 2018 2:25 AM

I agree, i have no interest in voice activation.

However, i think there are plenty of reasons to believe that a prospective B&O sound system / bar / centre wont have anything like the BR One.

Voice is seen by many as the / a primary control interface - and with B&O said to be integrating voice into future products of many types, presumably a sound centre too, then i am not hopeful that the scenario being discussed (3rd party TV with B&O sound system / speakers) will come with a BeoRemote.

Especially as PUC and IR blasters may be less relevant under HDMI 2.1.

I'd love a new BR in that setup scenario - i just suspect we wont get one.

Aussie Michael
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I wasn’t a fan of voice until I started using it. I love it.

So easy to watch car videos on YouTube and searching via voice.
elephant
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elephant replied on Sun, May 6 2018 12:52 PM
Fidse:

Also i feel pretty sure that LG has wanted more from the collaboration, than the handfull of panels they’ve sold for Eclipse’s so far.

Not sure what LG wanted or got ....

I was browsing LG TVs today.

The “barn” I was in had x7s at half or less their 2017 prices; and it had two x8 ranges in already, and my impression was (a) that screen size for screen size they were slightly cheaper than last year’s x7s, and (b) they had visual design improvements - still “plastic” and not aluminium, but some attempts to add style and detail ......

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Fidse
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Fidse replied on Sun, May 6 2018 4:17 PM
Well... their OLED’s (which i think will be the only screens available to whatever B&O will come up with), are all just intirely black screens, from afront at least, so design wise there a really no downsides, to me at least. They look like a tv, that’s it...
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sun, May 6 2018 4:41 PM

Fidse:
Well... their OLED’s (which i think will be the only screens available to whatever B&O will come up with), are all just intirely black screens, from afront at least, so design wise there a really no downsides, to me at least. They look like a tv, that’s it...

Pretty much the same for whatever TV you buy, Beovision or regular, Sony, LG, all are big black blank slates without a signal. The only exception I know to this is the Samsung Frame, which looks like a large framed picture and will display photos or art when not showing a TV signal. To me, this is the only unique and out of the box thinking on TVs I've seen in decades, it's truly innovative. Unfortunately, the panel tech is not the best, black levels and other LCD issues are present. Now, an OLED version of it would be stunning. It truly surprised me that this level of artistic style came not from B&O but from Samsung.

Jeff

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Fidse
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Fidse replied on Sun, May 6 2018 4:58 PM
Well, it’s not really that unique.

Sony did it about 10 years ago, it just died out, and I’m pretty sure this Samsung model will too. It’s just fashion, like the hideous remake of the Fiat 500 and those Paris Hilton dogs....

the Samsung frame is a tv for women, and women don’t buy that many tv’s. I think that’s part of the explanation why B&O (for one) never made one, Samsung ar definetely not the first one’s to think of it.

Jeff:

Pretty much the same for whatever TV you buy, Beovision or regular, Sony, LG, all are big black blank slates without a signal. The only exception I know to this is the Samsung Frame, which looks like a large framed picture and will display photos or art when not showing a TV signal. To me, this is the only unique and out of the box thinking on TVs I've seen in decades, it's truly innovative. Unfortunately, the panel tech is not the best, black levels and other LCD issues are present. Now, an OLED version of it would be stunning. It truly surprised me that this level of artistic style came not from B&O but from Samsung.

Jeff

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, May 6 2018 5:20 PM

Why would they sell a B&O Sound Centre that only connects to an LG TV, just after they effectively break their partnership with LG.

That would seem insane and incredibly restrictive, and surely something even B&O wouldn't do.

If they're out of the BV TV business, and just going to sell audio solutions, then why would they only sell a audio solution for an LG TV?

If the Sound Centre (of the future) is not physically tethered to the (LG) TV, and is a separate unit, then it will surely connect to many brands using HDMI.

Why would they restrict themselves?

 

Fidse
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Fidse replied on Sun, May 6 2018 5:37 PM
When did they break the partnership with LG?

Let me just underline that I’m only guessing here.

But the ability to control both the tv and the soundcentre with the same remote isn’t that straightforward, name me one good universal remote, one that gets just remotely (excuse the pun) to the standards of a BeoRemote?

Sandyb:

Why would they sell a B&O Sound Centre that only connects to an LG TV, just after they effectively break their partnership with LG.

That would seem insane and incredibly restrictive, and surely something even B&O wouldn't do.

If they're out of the BV TV business, and just going to sell audio solutions, then why would they only sell a audio solution for an LG TV?

If the Sound Centre (of the future) is not physically tethered to the (LG) TV, and is a separate unit, then it will surely connect to many brands using HDMI.

Why would they restrict themselves?

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, May 6 2018 5:43 PM

Of course, maybe i'm misinterpreting Roger's initial post, we'll have to wait and see i guess.

And i'm with you, i hate voice control, love my BR, would love them to continue with it even with an untethered sound centre.

My point re the remote was that i think there is a strong chance come fall 2019 when they move on from the Eclipse, that the sound centre wont come with a similar remote. Amongst the reasons i've given before (HDMI 2.1, a shift to voice / apps etc), it doesn't seem entirely logical to expect a similar (TV) remote when they're not selling you a TV.

But again, i agree with you that i'd like to see something physical, whatever form it takes, just not hopeful.

Millemissen
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Of course - if the result would be a ‘soundbar’....just a soundbar, there would be no reason for a remote like the BROne.

However, if it is ‘not just a soundbar’ meaning something like the current Sound Center with NL support, HDMI’s (with PUC) PowerLink outputs (cabled or WiSA), there would be any reason to have a similar remote.

The remotes have morphed over time, but we will still be in need of a simple remote to control the complexity of the modern sources and (sound) functions = a B&O Remote

MM

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poodleboy replied on Sun, May 6 2018 11:54 PM

Millemissen:

Of course - if the result would be a ‘soundbar’....just a soundbar, there would be no reason for a remote like the BROne.

However, if it is ‘not just a soundbar’ meaning something like the current Sound Center with NL support, HDMI’s (with PUC) PowerLink outputs (cabled or WiSA), there would be any reason to have a similar remote.

The remotes have morphed over time, but we will still be in need of a simple remote to control the complexity of the modern sources and (sound) functions = a B&O Remote

MM

Exactly. If it is just a tarted up soundbar with DSP and the correct licenses, what will b&o have accomplished? The competition is huge and years ahead at a target of €1000 for "audiophile" soundbars, WISA included with some. If it is a real b&o, then it will have to appear as an exciting agnostic backbone for b&o and WISA systems.

Given the probability of that anchoring a spirited audio business, I think they should get on their hands and knees (at least) and attack Loewe with a large dose of humility, creating the best option for what is left of the TV-anchored small multi-room business. b&o are not in the major leagues anymore, and they know it. Saw an A9 at a chic clothing store today. Very nice, but it's not a strategy. 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, May 7 2018 12:05 AM

Fidse:
Well, it’s not really that unique.

 

Sony did it about 10 years ago, it just died out, and I’m pretty sure this Samsung model will too. It’s just fashion, like the hideous remake of the Fiat 500 and those Paris Hilton dogs....

 

the Samsung frame is a tv for women, and women don’t buy that many tv’s. I think that’s part of the explanation why B&O (for one) never made one, Samsung ar definetely not the first one’s to think of it.

 

 

Jeff:

 

Pretty much the same for whatever TV you buy, Beovision or regular, Sony, LG, all are big black blank slates without a signal. The only exception I know to this is the Samsung Frame, which looks like a large framed picture and will display photos or art when not showing a TV signal. To me, this is the only unique and out of the box thinking on TVs I've seen in decades, it's truly innovative. Unfortunately, the panel tech is not the best, black levels and other LCD issues are present. Now, an OLED version of it would be stunning. It truly surprised me that this level of artistic style came not from B&O but from Samsung.

 

Jeff

 

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

 

 

Interesting, I've never seen or heard of the Sony version. However, the opinion that it's just "fashion" comes perilously close to describing most Beovisions, especially the Eclipse. A woman's TV, hmmmmm, sounds a tad sexist doesn't it? Might not someone also say that about the Beovision?

Jeff

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AngloApulian
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Jeff:

Interesting, I've never seen or heard of the Sony version. However, the opinion that it's just "fashion" comes perilously close to describing most Beovisions, especially the Eclipse. A woman's TV, hmmmmm, sounds a tad sexist doesn't it? Might not someone also say that about the Beovision?

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

I think this might be the one:

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, May 7 2018 12:30 AM

Thanks AngloApulian, looks very similar, and I've never seen it before. It's still a grand idea for a lot of people who have designers or styles who don't want to see a TV set but still have a good sized one. Personally that's not me, though I could imagine one in the dining room area easily enough. For my main system I've never cared to hide the TV, despite liking the general high MoMA kind of style of B&O. Makes more sense than some of the ways I've seen them hidden in complicated folding door cabinets or pop ups.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

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Fidse replied on Mon, May 7 2018 12:48 AM
Jeff:

Interesting, I've never seen or heard of the Sony version. However, the opinion that it's just "fashion" comes perilously close to describing most Beovisions, especially the Eclipse. A woman's TV, hmmmmm, sounds a tad sexist doesn't it? Might not someone also say that about the Beovision?

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

You can’t tell me that the designers haven’t had in mind, that a relatively large percentage of “the frame” would be bought by women or at least bought in a household where the female part, has gotten a say in the matter. I also feel pretty confident that you wouldn’t even need two hands to count the women who have bought an Eclipse, women don’t pay 10k $ for tv’s, men do....

And please don’t give me that “sexiest” preach.

I figure you’re from America? Here in Europe (or Scandinavia at least) you can (still) actually give your honest opinion without starting a #MeToo campaign. Whistle

Cheers Jeff Wink
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Fidse replied on Mon, May 7 2018 1:02 AM
On another (and maybe more related to the thread) note...

Has anyone gotten their damn oak panels yet?

When i bought the tv my dealer said; late february - early march. Around march 20th or so, this changed to sometime in april, my dealers website still says it will be available in April. So, April ‘19 maybe!?

I’m starting to feel a bit dumb, since i paid for it 4 months ago...
elephant
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Millemissen:

it is ‘not just a soundbar’ meaning something like the current Sound Center with NL support, HDMI’s (with PUC) PowerLink outputs (cabled or WiSA)

I agree if we had a BeoSoundVision&Motion(ieThe stand for at least the speaker portion) centre then many of would be interest ... I just don’t see the hdmi cec integration needing to be unique to an LG panel (OLED) or even LCD

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Millemissen
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elephant:
I just don’t see the hdmi cec integration needing to be unique to an LG panel (OLED) or even LCD

Me neither - and why should it?

Who came up with that nonsense?

MM

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, May 7 2018 1:42 PM

Fidse:
Jeff:

 

Interesting, I've never seen or heard of the Sony version. However, the opinion that it's just "fashion" comes perilously close to describing most Beovisions, especially the Eclipse. A woman's TV, hmmmmm, sounds a tad sexist doesn't it? Might not someone also say that about the Beovision?

 

Jeff

 

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

 

 

 

You can’t tell me that the designers haven’t had in mind, that a relatively large percentage of “the frame” would be bought by women or at least bought in a household where the female part, has gotten a say in the matter. I also feel pretty confident that you wouldn’t even need two hands to count the women who have bought an Eclipse, women don’t pay 10k $ for tv’s, men do....

 

 

And please don’t give me that “sexiest” preach.

 

I figure you’re from America? Here in Europe (or Scandinavia at least) you can (still) actually give your honest opinion without starting a #MeToo campaign. Whistle

 

 

Cheers Jeff Wink

Hmmmm....way to miss the point, but I must have hit a nerve perhaps. Chauvinists are sure touchy! Stick out tongue

 

Jeff

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poodleboy
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Jeff:

Fidse:
Jeff:

Interesting, I've never seen or heard of the Sony version. However, the opinion that it's just "fashion" comes perilously close to describing most Beovisions, especially the Eclipse. A woman's TV, hmmmmm, sounds a tad sexist doesn't it? Might not someone also say that about the Beovision?

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

You can’t tell me that the designers haven’t had in mind, that a relatively large percentage of “the frame” would be bought by women or at least bought in a household where the female part, has gotten a say in the matter. I also feel pretty confident that you wouldn’t even need two hands to count the women who have bought an Eclipse, women don’t pay 10k $ for tv’s, men do....

And please don’t give me that “sexiest” preach.

I figure you’re from America? Here in Europe (or Scandinavia at least) you can (still) actually give your honest opinion without starting a #MeToo campaign. Whistle

Cheers Jeff Wink

Hmmmm....way to miss the point, but I must have hit a nerve perhaps. Chauvinists are sure touchy! Stick out tongue

Just because you have an "opinion", doesn't mean it's not offensive. As far as the number of hands it takes to count the number of Eclipses sold to women, I doubt many more have been sold to men. 

At least now we know why there are so many sheep in Denmark. #EweToo

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Fidse replied on Mon, May 7 2018 5:52 PM
Not this one, i can take a little banter Big Smile

But my point, i think is valid enough. You surely can’t disagree, that a huuuuuge overweight of persons who buy 10K tv’s are men? Or 5K or even 2K tv’s for that matter...

It’s just a fact that most tv’s are designes for men, and bought by men. Just like more hand bags, jewelery and beauty products are designed for women and so on...

“The Frame” is more of a fashion statement than anything else, the fact is that it’s a shitty tv with a low quality panel and even worse speakers. I don’t think it compares to Beovisions in that many ways.

Jeff:

Hmmmm....way to miss the point, but I must have hit a nerve perhaps. Chauvinists are sure touchy!

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

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Fidse replied on Mon, May 7 2018 5:52 PM
poodleboy:

Just because you have an "opinion", doesn't mean it's not offensive. As far as the number of hands it takes to count the number of Eclipses sold to women, I doubt many more have been sold to men.

At least now we know why there are so many sheep in Denmark. #EweToo

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What do you say, we leave this one right here, mate?
Brigantinus
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The new Samsung QLED 2018 have the picture ability too (2017 they had not). And the Ambient mode is pretty cool. So let's stop to talk about "The Frame" - a 2017 tv with an 2016 Panel (like the BV14 and Horizon).

The QLED tv's have a brillant picture quality.

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Jon replied on Mon, May 7 2018 7:32 PM
Fidse:

Not this one, i can take a little banter

But my point, i think is valid enough. You surely can’t disagree, that a huuuuuge overweight of persons who buy 10K tv’s are men? Or 5K or even 2K tv’s for that matter...

It’s just a fact that most tv’s are designes for men, and bought by men. Just like more hand bags, jewelery and beauty products are designed for women and so on...

🙄 think this might be the most I’ve eye-rolled so far this year. TVs, as with most consumer electronics targeted at the home, are designed to appeal to everybody around them - not one specific gender. Really don’t understand why you’re trying to drive this point home so much when it’s both nonsense and irrelevant.
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Fidse replied on Mon, May 7 2018 8:33 PM
And i can’t stop rolling my eyes, as to how the hell you guys can get so wound up over, what i think is, a very innocent postulate.

But we clearly have different opinions on this matter, and as i said, i believe it’s a culturel difference. But if you want to discuss my postulate, let’s do that. If you don’t, then why not just let it slide, and think to yourself that i’m a sexist *** in silence?

I (and i seem to be the only one) thought it was pretty relevant to the debate.

Jon:

🙄 think this might be the most I’ve eye-rolled so far this year. TVs, as with most consumer electronics targeted at the home, are designed to appeal to everybody around them - not one specific gender. Really don’t understand why you’re trying to drive this point home so much when it’s both nonsense and irrelevant.

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I have sold many television in my youth in a Panasonic Center

90% of the time it was the man who wanted a new tv,

90% of the time I had to sell to the women, as she needed to be convinced.

 

So it is a matter of perspective, but I would tend to strongly agree with Fidse on this one.

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beolion replied on Tue, May 8 2018 8:12 PM
Emil Jensen:

90% of the time I had to sell to the women, as she needed to be convinced.

Ha ha. Sounds very much like my situation :-)

And my wife already said NO to the Eclipse, no chance she said, our 7-55 is (still) perfect for our needs (with the New Apple TV connected).

Well. Leaves me plenty of time to keep on dreaming.
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Fidse replied on Wed, May 9 2018 4:22 PM
Thank you!!!

And see.... it took a Dane to get my point Stick out tongue
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I, like you am feeling a little miffed. I paid for mine as soon as they came into the store (for demo)!  I have been given two likely dates, both of which have come and gone.  I have been given a definite date now for the 5th June. It was supposed to be early April! We will have to see if it arrives then. #livinginhope.

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Jeff replied on Wed, May 9 2018 8:26 PM

Fidse:
Thank you!!!

 

 

And see.... it took a Dane to get my point Stick out tongue

Kind of preaching to a very small choir though. Laughing

Jeff

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beolion
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beolion replied on Wed, May 9 2018 11:40 PM
Jeff:

Kind of preaching to a very small choir though.

Jeff

Hmm. You’re probably right. But. We just had a 3-2 win against Finland in World Cup ice hockey!

But, ehh, we have forgotten the two previous games against US and Canada.

Sorry. That was off topic.

I am still hoping the best for Eclipse. Won’t be on our house though.

But as in a the BV14 thread. I do really hope that they will get the sw in place soon. But. What I noticed with my bv7-55 was that the LAST sw version was (very) stable. The previous ones not. I still don’t understand why B&O is not prioritising SW development more. Not everything relies on physical interactions anymore.
Jeff
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Jeff replied on Thu, May 10 2018 12:51 AM

Congrats on the hockey win! I love the old saying, hockey is played on a rink made of a frozen manmade substance, blood. You've got to like a sport where they give the players sticks to hit each other with. Smile

You're right of course, in today's (and even near yesterday's) world, software is far more important than hardware, and sadly it's long been one of B&O's weakest skills. My career was in defense/aerospace engineering, our software development teams and the rules they had to operate under were very rigorous and rigid. One thing that boggles my mind coming from that environment is how B&O seems to have no idea about regression testing and its importance. That's where you retest every single function the software had every time you make any change to the software, no matter how small. It's a staple of software development and software degree programs as well. I've seen a couple of cases where it wasn't done in my career, in some simulation test software by a very small company I used to work for, and the results were a total mess. Allegedly they did it to "save time" but by the time they had to recall and retest and repair all the mess they made, it saved neither time nor money and ruined the reputation of the company, resulting in a canceled contract.

As someone noted on the BV14 thread I think, handing it off to Android hasn't worked any better. Android has been a real disappointment to me over the years, it has never really lived up to the hype and promise.

 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Aussie Michael
Top 50 Contributor
Melbourne, AU
Posts 3,347
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Bronze Member

I was looking up the Aussie LG site today - i think from my look at the C7 and the C8 user manuals that they are using the same "base" connector.  

So it should be updated by B&O i think 

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