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BEOVISION ECLIPSE

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The Beonic Man
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Martin:

Hi, just a thougt about the "value" proposition regarding the Eclipse.

If we remember the Beovision 12-65 and cost of this one:

Beosystem 4: about 35.000 SEK

The screen 65 inch with mono loudspeaker: 100.000 SEK.

If we talk about value proposition in this case what do you think about paying 100.000 SEK just for a Pionner plasma-screen with a center-loudspeaker?

Of course the System 4 is made by B&O but I think this TV (if we want to value this) is very expensive/overpriced also.

So, I think all talk about that the Eclipse is to expensive is just because this is the first time that B&O tell the customer that one piece of the TV is LG and one piece is B&O. Before B&O never mentionded any other companys that they co-operate with.

A good observation and fair point Martin but the key difference in my case is that I would be buying the Eclipse brand new if liked it enough. The BV12 was always out of my budget, as were the BV7-55 and BV9 when new. I have bought and owned both these products but only second-hand. I have bought a BV7-40, BS9000, BS2300, 2 x Avant DVD RF models (one for me and one for Mum) and various other products spanning over the years brand new because I felt the price points were justified with value for money given a premium product experience. I would never spend c£16,000k on a television set no matter how good the picture, screen size, audio capabilities or wizardry as to me a television can never be worth such value. I 'might' spend that sort of money on a car (although I have never exceeded £10,000 for a car so far and I am 48 years old) and I definitely would spend that amount on a new kitchen, bathroom or something with longevity and value for my home. A product has to be worth the price, have value and 'some' longevity to me personally. Even at a second hand price of c£5k (for example) I still would not buy a second hand BV12 for exactly the reasons you give - it being simply a Panasonic panel, so I can not relate at all to the person who buys a set like that the new price, but that's just me and we all value things differently. Simon.

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Mon, Sep 18 2017 11:08 PM

Yeah, value is only a transferable or comparable concept in broad terms.

I never thought about buying a new 12-65 for 14k when i first saw one, but happily snapped an ex-dsiaply one up for 7k (2.5 years ago) from a dealer...and at that price thought it was justifiable to me. And don't regret it for a moment.

And for that reason, I wouldn't give a second thought to someone buying a new Eclipse - everyones circumstances and value judgements are different, much as i think its price and implied premium is a bit harder to justify. But each to their own.

BenSA
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BenSA replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 7:18 AM

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore. 

Roger
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Roger replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 7:41 AM

There are not that many panel producers left in the world, so unless you buy a tv from Samsung, LG, Sharp, Panasonic (or their Taiwanese rivals), you may get a tv with a panel made by someone else than the brand written on the front of it - this even goes for smartphones, just look at iPhone. Which is the way it is today.

But most brands add something - it might be a picture enhancing tech like B&O VisionClear, ambience lighting (Philips), more expensive materials, unique software etc. But when a manufacturer put a display on the market from another producer, and you add nothing at all to the picture part - well, then you will get a tough job selling it no matter how good the sound bar is.

Do not get me wrong, I find the Eclipse a lot better looking in person and I like it - I just don't like the fact that you are reminded that the picture part is 99% LG every time you turn it on or use the remote to change something. To most people, unlike beoworlders, it will appear as an LG tv when you use it - as stated above: it will be a tough job selling it to this customer group. 

Roger

Chris Townsend
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BenSA:

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore.

It wasn't always so. My mum was a single mother and a nurse. She always ensured we could at least lease a B&O tv in the 70s and 80s.

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Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 9:02 AM

BenSA:

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore. 

The Panasonic panel in the BV12 was also housed in a B&O frame/housing, in the same way that the Toshiba (or other) CRT was built into an old style MX or Avant.

The point being that in that case it was just the display itself, with the TV electronics handled by B&O. Here the entire, TV part is pretty much what you can already buy in the shops, with the same finish, from the same manufacturer without being charge extra for the privilege!

 

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moxxey
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moxxey replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 9:49 AM

Chris Townsend:
BenSA:

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore.

It wasn't always so. My mum was a single mother and a nurse. She always ensured we could at least lease a B&O tv in the 70s and 80s.

Are you implying that your Mum's priorities were a top quality TV? Over everything else? :)

Peter
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Peter replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 10:36 AM

I guess this discussion about "value for money" is always popping up in different threads here..

Probably many of you are in the same situation as I am, appreciating the quality, the look and feel, the way it makes you smile when you use the products. It doesn't really matter if you can get better speakers or better picture from another brand, since the whole concept of a great audio video experience is unique with B&O. Just picking up a remote that is not made from pure plastic is so great.. ;)

But, I remember buying my first B&O TV, an LS5500, it was looking better, sounding better than the rivals, Sony, Panasonic and others and I was very happy with it.

The price tag was higher, but not even double the price of the rivals. Today the entry models of B&O are about 10 times higher.. Even if they don't want to be on the mass-market, I think this is partially where their problem is. They may have addressed this with the Beoplay range, but not on the TV range.. yet..

Just my two cents..

/Peter

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Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 10:49 AM

moxxey:

Chris Townsend:
BenSA:

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore.

It wasn't always so. My mum was a single mother and a nurse. She always ensured we could at least lease a B&O tv in the 70s and 80s.

Are you implying that your Mum's priorities were a top quality TV? Over everything else? :)

When I was young I was sold off for medical experiments so that the rest of our family could have a B&O TV.

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ErikVonAgnar
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I have just ordered the new Eclipse 55" with floor stand and aluminium front. 

At the moment I have the Avant 55" first generation and many ask my why I would go from a true Beovision to an LG. 

I want the best. I want a true movie and music experience when I'm at home. And because I have a girlfriend that is not the same Beofan as me, I also have to make sure that the tv and stereo is easy to use.
And the Beovision Eclipse I think is great. The best OLED screen on the market right now and the best "soundbar". The Web OS I feel is better then the Android on Avant NG, BV14 and Horizon. 
I feel that the Eclipse will be great for Beo and their fans. The design is very nice and resembles the BV7. Sure I will miss the cinematic open and close effect and "cool factor" when the speakers go up and down but with that perfect screen, I don't think I will miss them that much. 

Pictures and review on the new Eclipse and the difference between the Avant coming soon. Smile

 

//EA

Beo in white is my thingBig Smile

Currently own: BeoVision Avant 55", BeoLab 5, BeoLab 18, BeoRemoteOne, BeoPlay V1-32", BeoRemote4, BeoSound 3200, BeoGram 6500 (MMC-1), BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, LC2, BeoVision MX7000 and BeoLab 3

Rombeek
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Rombeek replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 4:37 PM

Congratulations with your purchase, Erik!

 

 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 4:47 PM

Puncher:

 

When I was young I was sold off for medical experiments so that the rest of our family could have a B&O TV.

Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is good...Big Smile

Just a general comment, outside of 4k, no one has yet, to me, made a compelling argument that OLED, at least as defined by LG's technology, is as good as the last generation of high end plasmas. The idea that you can get better color purity out of a white OLED behind a color filter as opposed to a pixel in a plasma that emits the exact color of light directly is not intuitively going to be better. Samsung's approach, with red, green, and blue OLED emitters is much more like plasma, but sadly the longevity of the blue OLED killed off Samsung's approach as the white LG OLED is supposed to have a long life. Once again it may well be that an inferior technology/design wins out for reasons having little to do with performance, as in the VHS/Beta wars.

Jeff

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Lars Ladingkaer
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Jeff:
Just a general comment, outside of 4k, no one has yet, to me, made a compelling argument that OLED, at least as defined by LG's technology, is as good as the last generation of high end plasmas.

The biggest difference, coming from the old plasma tv's, is not 4K.

Its HDR (High Dynamic Range).

The difference between non-HDR and HDR is much bigger than the difference between HD and 4K.

But then you also get the benefit of a larger colour space, with the abillity to display more colours.

I would also say you lack the plasma grain on OLED. I.e. the noise in green.

Finally you get a brand new display. Plasma ages, and the picture quality now is not what it was years back when it shipped from factory.

  /Lars

 

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moxxey
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moxxey replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 6:10 PM

Lars Ladingkaer:

Jeff:
Just a general comment, outside of 4k, no one has yet, to me, made a compelling argument that OLED, at least as defined by LG's technology, is as good as the last generation of high end plasmas.

The biggest difference, coming from the old plasma tv's, is not 4K. Its HDR (High Dynamic Range).

Sorry, but not convinced. The plasma panel on my BV12-65 is still stunning and LED panels, even OLED, offer a very bright and sharp visual experience. It's very different from the smooth, deep and elegant picture you find on the BV12-65. Blacks are black, whites are sharp. Colours rich. Everything HDR offers for an LCD.

I'm sure some people on here are hired by B&O as paid evangelists. And all located in Denmark.

Simonbeo
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Simonbeo replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 6:15 PM

And is there anti-reflection screen coating option?

i don't think there is.

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Lars Ladingkaer
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moxxey:
Blacks are black, whites are sharp. Colours rich. Everything HDR offers for an LCD.

You may think this is the case, but no, you don't get HDR-like pictures on an old HD plasma. It just not technically possible.

  /Lars

 

 

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 6:25 PM

Have to agree with Moxxey.

My 12-65 is 3 years old, and nothing has changed - its still extremely strong and sharp - no degradation of colour palette or sharpness, or anything really.

That said, given how much i dislike LED/LCD's, and how flawed an image technology they are, i welcome OLEDs - anything that consigns LCD's to the dustbin is good. And yes, i don't deny that the combination of OLED + HDR can be truly excellent -  though outside of Marvel + action movies, the content remains sparse, so i don't care just yet. 

And so long as my 12-65 keeps its current performance, i'm not even sure i will care about HDR for quite a long time.

Bit like the new iPhone X - sure many will buy it, but there may well be many traditionally used to having the "latest top specs" who just decide that they don't actually need it now, and in contrast to the past, are happy just waiting till it all becomes a bit more commonplace and cheaper....becasue what they have is still excellent....but thats another discussion.

But congratulations to those who buy the Eclipse, despite my ambivalence, they'll be very happy with it (no sarcasm intended)

 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 6:32 PM

I agree with that - and agree that HDR is a step up.

The question is more whether people are that bothered by HDR - some will be if their starting point is something pretty old. But for some of those with still high end screens, upgrading to HDR capable TV's may be not that compelling. Of course HDR TV sales will increase, but much beyond usual upgrade cycles ? - not convinced.

And there is the qualitative issue - for SDR content, still the overwhelming bulk of viewing, is the picture on an OLED (SDR) much improvement on a high end plasma like the 12-65? I've spent quite a bit of time looking at the LG E6 and E7 - broadcast HD looks no better on those than on my 12-65.

So i can't argue that HDR can be highly impressive (whether its very lifelike is another question, and subjective) - but on the above comparison (SDR content), i see no reason to rush out and buy an OLED, even if it is HDR capable.

 

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 7:19 PM

Most modern tv specs (at least on paper) are far, far in advance of available content to play on them - how much 4K tv do you actually watch? By the time many of these things become available, let alone common place, chances are we're 2 TVs down the line. 

In the UK its still mainly SD with a decent number of HD channels, I wonder how well the LG handles good old SD!

I do know that my sadly expired 7 year old Panasonic plasma was still streets ahead of the 4K Panasonic that replaced it at both SD and HD, both had (alledgedly) certified THX settings that got you to a great picture without fiddling but the plasma really shone. So why was the latest TV with the latest specs not the best? As always theres more to it than the numbers!

A lot of tv marketing now is about how many acronyms you can stick on the screen to entice the gulable - just because it says it can do it doesn't mean it does it well, hence other manufacturers manage to tice a better picture than the actual panel manufacturer from the same panel, (LG Oled included).

Anyhoo, it is what it is, if it's enough for you then go for it! Is it the best all round TV - only if you aren't bothered about having the absolute best picture at the point of purchase (afterall, it wont be the best after the next wave of TVs are announced in January anyhow)!

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 7:58 PM

From the little I've seen of HDR so far it's a "feature" in search of a reason for existing. This may well be because the demos featuring it are like the original stereo or quad demos, so over processed and overdone to make sure you notice that they detract rather than add to the experience.

But, I have to keep coming back to the fact that the original target for high quality displays was not an exaggerated video looking image but to be able to reproduce fully the effect of film, which has a limited dynamic range itself. The last generation plasmas excelled in that, smooth, no motion irregularities, rich color palettes, etc. The mention of Marvel movies, stuffed with digital effects and nowhere near a real image of a real place, is not encouraging that HDR will be more than hype, similar to 3D. Oh, 3D is the next new thing, you must have it, until it went away because no one cared.

What good is the latest and greatest in tech if it doesn't give you thins that are actual improvements? Until I see a decent demo of a film with and without HDR, a "real" film not shot on digital and hyped with effects, I remain unconvinced by the marketing speak about it.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 8:36 PM

ErikVonAgnar:

I have just ordered the new Eclipse 55" with floor stand and aluminium front. 

At the moment I have the Avant 55" first generation and many ask my why I would go from a true Beovision to an LG. 

I want the best. I want a true movie and music experience when I'm at home. And because I have a girlfriend that is not the same Beofan as me, I also have to make sure that the tv and stereo is easy to use.
And the Beovision Eclipse I think is great. The best OLED screen on the market right now and the best "soundbar". The Web OS I feel is better then the Android on Avant NG, BV14 and Horizon. 
I feel that the Eclipse will be great for Beo and their fans. The design is very nice and resembles the BV7. Sure I will miss the cinematic open and close effect and "cool factor" when the speakers go up and down but with that perfect screen, I don't think I will miss them that much. 

Pictures and review on the new Eclipse and the difference between the Avant coming soon. Smile

 

//EA

 

Congratulations! I am looking forward to your pictures and review. As I live in the US my dealer will not have an Eclipse for me to look at until November.

I am thinking about replacing my BV7-55 with an Eclipse.  If I get an Eclipse I may or may not miss the cinematic open and close effect. But my understanding is that it was  originally implemented as a feature to allow the tv to warm up and then display the picture only after warmed up. With an OLED that is not an issue the practical reason for the curtains does not exist anymore. The Eclipse is obviously very expensive. But it is less expensive than a BV7-55 with a BL7-4 was many yrears ago. So looking at it that way, and with as you say, the perfect screen, I also don't think I will miss the curtains.

 

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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 9:04 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtzEKmiqU7A

This summarises my thoughts re HDR (Blu-Ray vs HDR comparisons on an LG G series)

Jeff, i'm with you in many ways, though i don't quite think we're in 3D territory, which had many problems with little upside. 

In a few years lots of people will have HDR capable sets, just by virtue of upgrade cycles in TV's. And broadcasters and streaming services will help push its adoption, which wasn't the case with 3D, which didn't have that help. How quickly people embrace that extra capability though, i suspect will be slowish, as it all costs more money (Apple's 4K HDR movies will still cost 20 dollars / pounds to buy,  Netflix 4K costs a bit more than the regular tier).

And while i'm completely with you on aiming to preserve the film-like aesthetic, it may just be that (slowly) people are being habituated to the hyper-real (i.e. quasi-unreal) look where clarity and eye-popping colours are given prominence, like it or loathe it. Just wait for high frame rates...a horrible thought to me, judging by how ridiculous The Hobbit looked!

But the above video is interesting as to how obvious / not obvious the differences are vis-a-vis Blu-Ray (yes i know, Blu-Ray is not huge, but there are so many BR's available for 1/3 of the price of a 4K HDR disc, i've been buying plenty...dont see the downside!)

 

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The BeoVision AV9000 had mechanical (real) curtains behind the glass screen.

Oh man, they spend a lot of time in Struer to get that working.

When these in later BV's were replaced by simple electronic curtains, many regarded this as a deadly sin, as treason. 

MM

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Simonbeo replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 9:38 PM

They spent some time working out the speed of the electronic version. And it was worth it. Replacing it with a generic collection of icons is not B&O, in my opinion.

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Don't misunderstand me - personally I like the curtains, but things change....just like life.

MM

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Sep 19 2017 10:31 PM

Sandyb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtzEKmiqU7A

This summarises my thoughts re HDR (Blu-Ray vs HDR comparisons on an LG G series)

Jeff, i'm with you in many ways, though i don't quite think we're in 3D territory, which had many problems with little upside. 

In a few years lots of people will have HDR capable sets, just by virtue of upgrade cycles in TV's. And broadcasters and streaming services will help push its adoption, which wasn't the case with 3D, which didn't have that help. How quickly people embrace that extra capability though, i suspect will be slowish, as it all costs more money (Apple's 4K HDR movies will still cost 20 dollars / pounds to buy,  Netflix 4K costs a bit more than the regular tier).

And while i'm completely with you on aiming to preserve the film-like aesthetic, it may just be that (slowly) people are being habituated to the hyper-real (i.e. quasi-unreal) look where clarity and eye-popping colours are given prominence, like it or loathe it. Just wait for high frame rates...a horrible thought to me, judging by how ridiculous The Hobbit looked!

But the above video is interesting as to how obvious / not obvious the differences are vis-a-vis Blu-Ray (yes i know, Blu-Ray is not huge, but there are so many BR's available for 1/3 of the price of a 4K HDR disc, i've been buying plenty...dont see the downside!)

 

It will be interesting to see what happens, and often "progress" consists of replacing what was really good with something "new" which is not as good, so be it. I truly want a good demo of HDR, as to date I've not been able to find one. Certainly the demos at "Best Buy" using LG provided content are overblown, I guess someday I'll have to drive into the "big" city and see one of the few remaining highish end/custom install places. If even they have a good demo.

But, can you really apply the term "High Dynamic Range" to an HDR TV that's a cheap, crappy LCD set that has no true black levels? HDR should include blacks as well as brights.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

BenSA
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BenSA replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 7:12 AM

ErikVonAgnar:

I have just ordered the new Eclipse 55" with floor stand and aluminium front. 

At the moment I have the Avant 55" first generation and many ask my why I would go from a true Beovision to an LG. 

I want the best. I want a true movie and music experience when I'm at home. And because I have a girlfriend that is not the same Beofan as me, I also have to make sure that the tv and stereo is easy to use.
And the Beovision Eclipse I think is great. The best OLED screen on the market right now and the best "soundbar". The Web OS I feel is better then the Android on Avant NG, BV14 and Horizon. 
I feel that the Eclipse will be great for Beo and their fans. The design is very nice and resembles the BV7. Sure I will miss the cinematic open and close effect and "cool factor" when the speakers go up and down but with that perfect screen, I don't think I will miss them that much. 

Pictures and review on the new Eclipse and the difference between the Avant coming soon. Smile

 

//EA

Congratulations.....looking forward to seeing the pics and your review on it!

Roger
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Roger replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 8:08 AM

In-store the Eclipse is stunning - the colors are popping, and black is just that - black. But according to some of the picture gurus at Struer, the color reproduction on the Avant is more accurate - but the Eclipse is way better on black.

But comparing the Eclipse side-by-side to a 75" Avant, the Eclipse with its popping colors look soooo amazing - but I can see what the guys from Struer were saying: too much of a good thing...

LG is the only manufacturer of OLED for TV's (Samsung dropped them, but do provide screens for smartphones) as far as I know. Samsung struggled with blue and lifespan. I do hope that OLED will not suffer the same lifespan and burn-in issues that haunted plasma wrt sales, once people have heard that burn-in and lifespan was an issue they leaned to the failsafe LCD side.

Roger

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Puncher replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 8:51 AM

Roger:

In-store the Eclipse is stunning - the colors are popping, and black is just that - black. But according to some of the picture gurus at Struer, the color reproduction on the Avant is more accurate - but the Eclipse is way better on black.

But comparing the Eclipse side-by-side to a 75" Avant, the Eclipse with its popping colors look soooo amazing - but I can see what the guys from Struer were saying: too much of a good thing...

LG is the only manufacturer of OLED for TV's (Samsung dropped them, but do provide screens for smartphones) as far as I know. Samsung struggled with blue and lifespan. I do hope that OLED will not suffer the same lifespan and burn-in issues that haunted plasma wrt sales, once people have heard that burn-in and lifespan was an issue they leaned to the failsafe LCD side.

Roger

I'd love to know what the picture gurus at struer think about the picture relative to a BV12 rather than an Avant!

 

Ban boring signatures!

vikinger
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vikinger replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 9:11 AM

For some reason this thread has disappeared from the Forum and Active Topics contents pages (9.10 am), but you can still find it with a search.

Graham

vikinger
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vikinger replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 9:12 AM

vikinger:

For some reason this thread has disappeared from the Forum and Active Topics contents pages (9.10 am), but you can still find it with a search.

Graham

And with my post, it returned!

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 9:18 AM

LG E7 with broadcast SD is fine and nothing more.

LG E7 with broadcast HD is good, but not appreciably different from older-tech high end sets (be that a plasma or top end LED/LCD)

Stand in front of an LG E6 with SD / HD - and you won't be blown away.

With HDR content, sure it has wow factor - but again thats physical samples in stores, mostly.

Streamed / Broadcast HDR will be excellent, but not the same as the physical form (still expensive).

And i'll say it again, Sony's and Panasonic's video processing (both better), do make a noticeable difference - the upscaling in particular is definitely better than LG's.

Ho hum.

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 9:35 AM

vikinger:

vikinger:

For some reason this thread has disappeared from the Forum and Active Topics contents pages (9.10 am), but you can still find it with a search.

Graham

And with my post, it returned!

.....and mine that I posted last night but got lost in Mod land!

Ban boring signatures!

ErikVonAgnar
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I think for you the purchase will be more needed then for me. But the design in very similar I think.
As I said, I think the cinematic open and close is a fun thing to have and it has become a Beo novelty. It also has an effect on you when you are having a movie/film night and the cinema curtains opens. But, like others had said, it will not be a big deal. I think it will be a thing that is easy forgotten when you use the tv for everyday use.

I see many is arguing with the HDR and 4K content. But for me the screen, the OLED, is way better then the Avant. And for me that's it. That total blackness that makes the picture almost 3D with that depth. And for me that has an Oppo UDP player, I want to take full advantage of that. You may not have the full 4K experience with Netflix 4K but with the Oppo player you will.

I will be giving a full review and pictures will come as soon as I get mine so you can decide for your self. And hope that your dealer will get one soon so you can see.Smile

//EA  

Beo in white is my thingBig Smile

Currently own: BeoVision Avant 55", BeoLab 5, BeoLab 18, BeoRemoteOne, BeoPlay V1-32", BeoRemote4, BeoSound 3200, BeoGram 6500 (MMC-1), BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, LC2, BeoVision MX7000 and BeoLab 3

Michael
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Michael replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 1:54 PM

Roger:

In-store the Eclipse is stunning - the colors are popping, and black is just that - black. But according to some of the picture gurus at Struer, the color reproduction on the Avant is more accurate - but the Eclipse is way better on black.

But comparing the Eclipse side-by-side to a 75" Avant, the Eclipse with its popping colors look soooo amazing - but I can see what the guys from Struer were saying: too much of a good thing...

LG is the only manufacturer of OLED for TV's (Samsung dropped them, but do provide screens for smartphones) as far as I know. Samsung struggled with blue and lifespan. I do hope that OLED will not suffer the same lifespan and burn-in issues that haunted plasma wrt sales, once people have heard that burn-in and lifespan was an issue they leaned to the failsafe LCD side.

Roger

I can imagine this is true. The avant is calibrated very carefully with ten points and I don't think the LG´s are calibrated at all. Maybe a factory set calibration that is the same for all of their panels - not individual calibrations as with Avant. 

Another reason the colors are more accurate on the Avant is that it features a hue sensor and a light sensor. This means that the Avant can adapt to the rooms color temperature and light levels so the picture appears as it was meant to be seen. The Eclipse can not measure hue/color temperature but perhaps at least light levels so it can not adapt to the rooms situation more than maybe in panel light levels. This is very unfortunate. Even the new iPhones and iPads has this feature and it is beloved (True tone). 

 

Sandyb:

LG E7 with broadcast SD is fine and nothing more.

LG E7 with broadcast HD is good, but not appreciably different from older-tech high end sets (be that a plasma or top end LED/LCD)

Stand in front of an LG E6 with SD / HD - and you won't be blown away.

With HDR content, sure it has wow factor - but again thats physical samples in stores, mostly.

Streamed / Broadcast HDR will be excellent, but not the same as the physical form (still expensive).

And i'll say it again, Sony's and Panasonic's video processing (both better), do make a noticeable difference - the upscaling in particular is definitely better than LG's.

Ho hum.

This is a bit sad to read but not surprising. Most cheap scalers do a bad job at it and I can see a big difference on the Avant scaler and cheaper sets. I also prefer letting the Avant scale up media rather than via my Nvidia Shield Android device. It is a noticeable difference. The Apple TV 4 makes a good job scaling up media too but I think the Avant is even better. Not sure how LG webOS scaling looks but hopefully its not too bad - most of my media is in HD (720p and 1080p) but I also watch a lot of old tv series in 480p(!). 
Marcello
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Marcello replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 2:59 PM

Michael:

This is a bit sad to read but not surprising. Most cheap scalers do a bad job at it and I can see a big difference on the Avant scaler and cheaper sets. I also prefer letting the Avant scale up media rather than via my Nvidia Shield Android device. It is a noticeable difference. The Apple TV 4 makes a good job scaling up media too but I think the Avant is even better. Not sure how LG webOS scaling looks but hopefully its not too bad - most of my media is in HD (720p and 1080p) but I also watch a lot of old tv series in 480p(!). 

This brings up a question... if you plug an HD source to the Sound Center, does the latter scale it up to 4K/UHD and passes the signal to the LG TV, or it simply passes through a 720/1080 signal?

At a dealer, last week I watched Sky Sports on the Eclipse and it looked very good (the Sky Italy box output was set at 720p, not 1080i), but I did not ask which device is in charge of scaling the signal up.

Michael
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Michael replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 3:47 PM

Marcello:

This brings up a question... if you plug an HD source to the Sound Center, does the latter scale it up to 4K/UHD and passes the signal to the LG TV, or it simply passes through a 720/1080 signal?

At a dealer, last week I watched Sky Sports on the Eclipse and it looked very good (the Sky Italy box output was set at 720p, not 1080i), but I did not ask which device is in charge of scaling the signal up.

I am pretty sure that the SoundCentre just forwards picture to the TV without any intervening - but I don't know for sure. Sports is a very rapidly changing media and watching in store is probably not the same either.  

355f
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355f replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 4:19 PM

Puncher:

Most modern tv specs (at least on paper) are far, far in advance of available content to play on them - how much 4K tv do you actually watch? By the time many of these things become available, let alone common place, chances are we're 2 TVs down the line. 

In the UK its still mainly SD with a decent number of HD channels, I wonder how well the LG handles good old SD!

I do know that my sadly expired 7 year old Panasonic plasma was still streets ahead of the 4K Panasonic that replaced it at both SD and HD, both had (alledgedly) certified THX settings that got you to a great picture without fiddling but the plasma really shone. So why was the latest TV with the latest specs not the best? As always theres more to it than the numbers!

A lot of tv marketing now is about how many acronyms you can stick on the screen to entice the gulable - just because it says it can do it doesn't mean it does it well, hence other manufacturers manage to tice a better picture than the actual panel manufacturer from the same panel, (LG Oled included).

Anyhoo, it is what it is, if it's enough for you then go for it! Is it the best all round TV - only if you aren't bothered about having the absolute best picture at the point of purchase (afterall, it wont be the best after the next wave of TVs are announced in January anyhow)!

This is the most common sense statement related on this thread.

I purchased one of  the first OLEDs from LG, It is on its second replacement, the picture of my BV4 is far more cinematic, The main improvements in OLED  apart from panel design, are motion processing,  plasma is still leaps ahead of the best LCDs and arguably OLED as it is now.

It is 'interesting' to hear about B&O offering 'upgradeability'  its not just about the panel its the whole product - do they really think B&O will offer this service- NO they will stuff the customer just as they have always done, Just like my  'upgradeable' purchase of BS4  can it be upgraded to 4K or dolby atmos NO  and now the 'image processing' is better in a standalone LG than in the BS4 that cost thousands.

B&O has played fast and loose with its customers and they have left them in droves, and all they can do now is to outsource to LG and allow the dealers( many of which will shortly be bust  anyway) to utter complete bull#### to convince the gullible to 'invest' in his OLED TV with its fully upgradeable innards!!  you can fool some of the people some of the time.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 4:43 PM

Marcello:

This brings up a question... if you plug an HD source to the Sound Center, does the latter scale it up to 4K/UHD and passes the signal to the LG TV, or it simply passes through a 720/1080 signal?

There's no video processing in the Sound Center, so it won't upscale etc. It will pass through the source content "as is" and the TV will do the video processing.

henrik
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henrik replied on Wed, Sep 20 2017 6:54 PM

Millemissen:

The BeoVision AV9000 had mechanical (real) curtains behind the glass screen.

When these in later BV's were replaced by simple electronic curtains, many regarded this as a deadly sin, as treason. 

Hehe, I was one of them! Smile I liked the real curtains of the AV9000 (mainly because they hid the CRT), but when the electronic curtains came I found it really really tacky! ...I did change my mind later on though – I enjoy the electronic curtains in my kitchen V1 (my only 'modern' beovision) every morning.

I don't want the logo on the start-up screen, I already know that it is a B&O tv.

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