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BEOVISION ECLIPSE

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Millemissen
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@Puncher

What would you suggest as a name for that tv, then?

MM

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Puncher
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Puncher replied on Sat, Sep 16 2017 10:49 AM

Millemissen:

@Puncher

What would you suggest as a name for that tv, then?

MM

I could ask why it needs a name at all, given that it doesn't fall under the Beovision umbrella!

I don't really care other than I don't believe it should be called or sold as something it very clearly isn't.

Would you be equally happy buying a BMW only to find out it was a rebadged Hyundai with a souped-up sound system?

Ban boring signatures!

BeoET
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BeoET replied on Sat, Sep 16 2017 11:17 AM

I really hope that B&O comes with an update of the Eclipse so that it will be possible to control BS9k and have functionality that enables the Eclipse to be part of a multiroom setup with other ML devices. They might as well come with a new "Eclipse" set that has such features, or a new ML/NL box that provides backward multiroom compatibility. If not, all the B&O owners like me will have to searh for second hand upgrades, or go for the outgoing Beovision models (Avant, 11, 14).  We were so keen on purchasing the new 65" Eclipse, but now we're in a limbo for options...

BV Eclipse 65, BV5, BS Core, BL5, BL8000, BS9000, Beolit 12, A1, A2, P2, H8, H9i, H7, E8

Gennaro
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Gennaro replied on Sat, Sep 16 2017 6:19 PM
I wish the states would offer current owners a trade in offer

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mjmedlo
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mjmedlo replied on Sat, Sep 16 2017 9:29 PM
BeoET:

I really hope that B&O comes with an update of the Eclipse so that it will be possible to control BS9k and have functionality that enables the Eclipse to be part of a multiroom setup with other ML devices. They might as well come with a new "Eclipse" set that has such features, or a new ML/NL box that provides backward multiroom compatibility. If not, all the B&O owners like me will have to searh for second hand upgrades, or go for the outgoing Beovision models (Avant, 11, 14). We were so keen on purchasing the new 65" Eclipse, but now we're in a limbo for options...

I feel confident multitoom will come.

That's a B&O standard.

Just has to be implemented.
Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Sat, Sep 16 2017 11:52 PM
mjmedlo:

I feel confident multitoom will come.

That's a B&O standard.

Just has to be implemented.

The specifications say "Multiroom technology is integrated."

What additional multiroom do you think is still to come?

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 1:27 AM
Hanschristian:

My 65 Eclipse is ordered but has not arrived yet. It will sit between my beolab 90s. I traded my 55 avant at decent a price nd can't wait.

Sounds beautiful! Looking forward to pictures. And looking forward to November when my US dealer will have the Eclipse so I can see it in person.

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 3:39 AM

Razlaw:
Hanschristian:

 

My 65 Eclipse is ordered but has not arrived yet. It will sit between my beolab 90s. I traded my 55 avant at decent a price nd can't wait.

 

 

Sounds beautiful! Looking forward to pictures. And looking forward to November when my US dealer will have the Eclipse so I can see it in person.

Assuming you still have a dealer by November. 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 4:21 AM
Jeff:

Assuming you still have a dealer by November.

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

I have zero doubt that my dealer will still be there. And if by some chance they are not, I will simply go to one of the other 70 plus dealers and pro partners in the US.

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BeoET
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BeoET replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 7:54 AM

Reg Multiroom; what's not working at the moment is the ability to control old ML devices. The newer digital B&O devices work fine. As far as I know, all previous Beovisions are able to connect to (through NL/ML converters) and control the old ML devices (BS9000, BS3200 etc).

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Peter Pan
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Peter Pan replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 9:11 AM

Michael:
Hiort:
Picked up the following intel:

- B&O will come with GUI improvements.

- Electronic curtain will come

- The soundbar include image processing for the sources that are connected through the soundbar connections. So there are

If this is true or not we will see. Hopefully they have been realizing that people don't like this Frankenstein experience and mismatching menues etc. if they can tailor it to an optimal B&O setup well then that's a good thing. I believe it when I see it.

And, if the soundbar includes image processing - then it would sell like hot cakes without a panel too. It's not just a soundbar then but a beosystem 5 with speakers and a very tiny form factor compared to older editions.

I'd almost rather prefer to buy one separately. Mount it on a wall and a tv above. Why not also introduce a BeoStand with vesa mount? Would open for a world of ideas. The speaker could be designed as a Beovision 7 speaker.

Maybe that's next. We surely won't see just one TV in the model spectrum from now on right?

 

A separate Beo SoundCenter under an optional TV panel ...... Then we're on our way.  Big Smile Yes - thumbs up

BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 9:50 AM
Step 1 : the logo instead of HDMI2.

BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 9:51 AM
Step 2 : the curtain.

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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 9:55 AM
It's just a wee reminder of what a B&O tv should have from scratch and not after some hypothesis updates..,
Simonbeo
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Simonbeo replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 9:59 AM

I agree. The startup is very important for a B&O tv. Without it , it's an LG.

It should also have a striking theme to the design which can be described very briefly by a non designer who's seen it once. As above. The Eclipse is very disappointing for these reasons. 

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BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 10:03 AM
Not to mention a menu that look like that.

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Simonbeo replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 10:06 AM

I didn't have the courage to say that either at the recent dealer launch I was kindly invited to.

 

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Razlaw
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Razlaw replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 10:28 AM
BeoET:

Reg Multiroom; what's not working at the moment is the ability to control old ML devices. The newer digital B&O devices work fine. As far as I know, all previous Beovisions are able to connect to (through NL/ML converters) and control the old ML devices (BS9000, BS3200 etc).

Thanks!

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Millemissen
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Simonbeo:

I agree. The startup is very important for a B&O tv. Without it , it's an LG.

It should also have a striking theme to the design which can be described very briefly by a non designer who's seen it once. As above. The Eclipse is very disappointing for these reasons. 

It is amazing (at least to me) how two minor features can disqualify a new tv from  Bang & Olufsen.

One of these I never even see on my pre-Eclipse BV  - having turned off the energy savings for the time, when the tv is mostly used.

Ok, the curtains are nice, for sure - but I could live without them and new custumers will hardly miss them.

 

Here is (some of) what (at least to me) makes the BV Eclipse a new BeoVision.....in daily life.

If you don't like the new direct buttons, just stick to the previous version:

https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/apps-and-accessories/beoremote-one

MM

 


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Millemissen
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BeoGreg:
Not to mention a menu that look like that.

 

 

 

That has been gone for 2-3 years now - didn't you notice that before!

 

P.S. By the way: why use the Camera button/command for NetRadio?

Seems a bit odd, when you have a spare Radio button.

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 10:59 AM
Millemissen:

That has been gone for 2-3 years now - didn't you notice that before!

P.S. By the way: why use the Camera button/command for NetRadio?

Seems a bit odd, when you have a spare Radio button.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

1) it's not because that "old" menu as been replaced by a much criticized one (ie. Android tv debacle) that it can't be welcomed again.

2) your right that it's odd to have the camera button for net radio, but :

a) I don't have a camera,

b) radio button on my remote fires the FM radio on my BS 9000 and I don't want to par with that (I use my BS 9000 everyday while net radio on BV11 twice a year - I prefer net radio from Iphone to Beolit 15 or A1).
BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 11:05 AM
Millemissen:

If you don't like the new direct buttons, just stick to the previous version:

https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/apps-and-accessories/beoremote-one

Sure, at a cost (around 250 €) because they can't just exchange it !

I personally don't have Netflix or Amazon and need some extra my buttons for light control for example.

The margins are so thin that the dealer cannot just say "I replaced the remote for you sir". We are already talking more than 11.000 € for the 55".

Millemissen
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Honestly - when we are talking 'more than11.000 €', how much would the 250 € matter....

....if you simply can't live with the new buttons?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 11:14 AM
My dealer did for me

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BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 11:15 AM
Millemissen:

One of these I never even see on my pre-Eclipse BV - having turned off the energy savings for the time, when the tv is mostly used.

That doesn't answer to the hdmi2 logo problem.

On your V1 with quick start you don't have a B&O logo, you have a full black screen. It's different than a hdmi2 logo on the top left.

It's in the details that differences are made.

BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 11:16 AM
Millemissen:

Honestly - when we are talking 'more than11.000 €', how much would the 250 € matter....

....if you simply can't live with the new buttons?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Please try to be serious one second.
Millemissen
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Well, I am just trying to understand that B&O had to choose the cooperation with LG in order to be able to offer a new tv to B&O-interested costumers.

I have no intention to understand, whether you want to keep your old tv or if you want to get a new from Bang & Olufsen - that is your personal choice.

Personally I would not hesitate spending the 'extra' 250 €, if I disliked the new controller - that is, if I could not make it part of the deal....

....and that is seriously meant ;-)

MM

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BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 11:35 AM
At the moment seeing the product, I feel that B&O should make an effort to sell it to me not the other way around.

Of course if I was blown away by the Eclipse like I was with my previous products, 250 € would have been spent with a smile.
Peter Pan
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Peter Pan replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 12:01 PM

Millemissen hoping for returns from his B & O shares, buys no Beovision Eclipse TV,
is doing well with the BeoPlay V1.That's just how it is. I know him quite well. Big Smile

Hanschristian
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I shall post as soon as it is received which should be 2nd week of October.

 

Razlaw:
Hanschristian:

 

My 65 Eclipse is ordered but has not arrived yet. It will sit between my beolab 90s. I traded my 55 avant at decent a price nd can't wait.

 

 

Sounds beautiful! Looking forward to pictures. And looking forward to November when my US dealer will have the Eclipse so I can see it in person.

 

Roger
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Roger replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 3:07 PM

Maybe the next "BeoVision" is simply a more generic Eclipse SoundCentre, where you can dock (almost) any given 55" or 65" screen (Samsung, LG) - you may loose the motor aspect unless they can dock it and make it stiff enough at the same time to tolerate movement.

I have to agree that the little details are important to a BeoVision (curtain, menu, start up/shut down). But to me the picture experts in Struer made the difference with their VisionClear technology, that was the core of a BeoVision to me - from the early light sensors to the advanced color sensing ones of late. Now, the VisionClear is gone - no matter how how you sell it. And it is an LG screen sitting on top of a BeoCenter or BeoSound product. Sure, they included the Core to make it "multiroom" compatible - but that´s about it. The sound is good, but no upgrade from the Avant with its speaker setup including a up/rear facing subwoofer.

I guess we just have to accept that the VisionClear days of sublime tv products from Struer are long gone. B&O is now a speaker company, and that is where they make money. There is a reason why Apple cancelled their TV plans - it is extremely difficult to stand out with top notch picture quality and design products and make a profit. 

Roger

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DMacri replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 3:55 PM

I think many of the reactions surround B&O Beovisions having set their standards very high and the expectations are you should not have to accept less for a new product at the price point they've set. If you want to offer a little less of the 'bells and whistles', than you did in the past, you should be able to point to the price as the concession - "if we included that, we'd have to set our prince to unacceptable levels". It just feels like B&O wants to have their cake and eat it too. That's not bad, any business needs to minimize cost and maximize profit, but there should not really be excuses at this price point. When you set the price this high, the look, operation, and experience should be exemplary, and it seem to fall short in many people's view. I agree that final judgment should be reserved until you actually see and experience one in person. 

Dom

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Simonbeo replied on Sun, Sep 17 2017 4:25 PM

As I have said, I was waiting to see the Eclipse in reality before I decided if it had that exemplary quality. I have and as was said before I'd have to be sold the product. Really it should have a "pull" rather than needing to be "pushed" at the people who look at it, to use the marketing vernacular.

I'd be interested to see the designs Torsten Valeur and his David Lewis designers have done for the suppliers of the panel. The suppliers name and proprietary interfaces come up too much in a demo for the TV to maintain a B&O integrity. 

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Marcello replied on Mon, Sep 18 2017 9:16 AM

Imagine if this was an LG-Branded TV instead of a "Beovision".

LG Eclipse - "Powered by Bang & Olufsen" ("Powered" came to mind first and it's not the best word - but you get the concept).

At 10K, the B&O sound center would be a digestible premium over the normal LG offering. They would sell this by the hundreds on day one.

Instead, the lack of the standard Beovision features in the same B&O branded TV, at the same price, diminishes the product for us long-time customers.

 

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moxxey replied on Mon, Sep 18 2017 10:41 AM

Marcello:

At 10K, the B&O sound center would be a digestible premium over the normal LG offering. They would sell this by the hundreds on day one.

You think? I'm really not sure you understand the "masses" if you believe this would cause hundreds of sales. Two reasons:

1) Most people I know think spending £800 on a soundbar to be a tonne of cash. Seriously. That's expensive for the average consumer. The soundbar premium on top of the regular LG TV is around £5000 excluding floor stand. You can now pick up the LG 55" OLED for £2300 in the UK. So you're saying there's a tonne of people out there willing to pay a £5000 privilege for improved sound?

2) That people know/care about Bang & Olufsen. Remember the average consumer sees B&O as the Rolls Royce of audio - but not necessarily in a good way. The belief out there is that the brand is for silly people with silly money. Putting a B&O soundbar on an LG TV and pushing it out as "LG featuring B&O" really won't result in a huge upturn in sales.

Always interesting how people see the market, the average consumer, what they are willing to spend as a "digestible premium".

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svinaik replied on Mon, Sep 18 2017 10:56 AM

Marcello:
At 10K, the B&O sound center would be a digestible premium over the normal LG offering. They would sell this by the hundreds on day one.

Really.... ???

You think there are hundreds of people who buy the LG branded products at 5 digit prices. I do not think so. In fact, LG's current signature line has sound bar from harmon Kardon (Not in the B&O league but a respected name) and they struggle to sell those higher priced products. LG's biggest success is in the B/C/E models where the price / value proposition is well balanced.

On the other hand, I would have easily paid the asking price for B&O if the product was truly and fully thought our B&O product.

Since we are on the Brand perception / value proposition discussion, I have no issue with Loewe asking price as I do see the product is a full blown effort by Loewe and the prices are well matched with the value proposition.

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Marcello replied on Mon, Sep 18 2017 11:22 AM

moxxey:

Marcello:

At 10K, the B&O sound center would be a digestible premium over the normal LG offering. They would sell this by the hundreds on day one.

You think? I'm really not sure you understand the "masses" if you believe this would cause hundreds of sales. Two reasons:

1) Most people I know think spending £800 on a soundbar to be a tonne of cash. Seriously. That's expensive for the average consumer. The soundbar premium on top of the regular LG TV is around £5000 excluding floor stand. You can now pick up the LG 55" OLED for £2300 in the UK. So you're saying there's a tonne of people out there willing to pay a £5000 privilege for improved sound?

Always interesting how people see the market, the average consumer, what they are willing to spend as a "digestible premium".

True, until you consider it as a simple soundbar. If you market it the proper way, explaining exactly what the sound center does (AVR/Decoder, Wisa, PUC etc.) then it's a different story. How much do you pay for a powerful AVR+Speakers+ a solution to hide everything? I don't think you'd be far off the Eclipse price.

My point was that a B&O component adds more to the value of an LG product, rather than the opposite, which happened with the "Beovision". But this is just my opinion.

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vikinger replied on Mon, Sep 18 2017 12:00 PM

Millemissen:

 

Simonbeo:

I agree. The startup is very important for a B&O tv. Without it , it's an LG.

It should also have a striking theme to the design which can be described very briefly by a non designer who's seen it once. As above. The Eclipse is very disappointing for these reasons. 

It is amazing (at least to me) how two minor features can disqualify a new tv from  Bang & Olufsen.

One of these I never even see on my pre-Eclipse BV  - having turned off the energy savings for the time, when the tv is mostly used.

Ok, the curtains are nice, for sure - but I could live without them and new custumers will hardly miss them.

 

Here is (some of) what (at least to me) makes the BV Eclipse a new BeoVision.....in daily life.

If you don't like the new direct buttons, just stick to the previous version:

https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/apps-and-accessories/beoremote-one

MM

A remote control with Netflix and Amazon buttons? No way. Netflix and Amazon would have to be paying for the remote, and B&O would have to offer a change if either service was terminated or taken over and rebranded. Might as well add some Tesco or Walmart shopping buttons while they are at it.......

Graham

Martin
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Martin replied on Mon, Sep 18 2017 3:58 PM

Hi, just a thougt about the "value" proposition regarding the Eclipse.

If we remember the Beovision 12-65 and cost of this one:

Beosystem 4: about 35.000 SEK

The screen 65 inch with mono loudspeaker: 100.000 SEK.

If we talk about value proposition in this case what do you think about paying 100.000 SEK just for a Pionner plasma-screen with a center-loudspeaker?

Of course the System 4 is made by B&O but I think this TV (if we want to value this) is very expensive/overpriced also.

So, I think all talk about that the Eclipse is to expensive is just because this is the first time that B&O tell the customer that one piece of the TV is LG and one piece is B&O. Before B&O never mentionded any other companys that they co-operate with.

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Sandyb replied on Mon, Sep 18 2017 4:16 PM

Yes i think thats right up to a point.

We all knew the price of the Pioneer or Panasonic top end panel that was more or less used in the 12-65, so you could just as easily work out what you were paying for on top. So in that sense, we've been here before broadly in transparency terms.

The difference between then and now is that that extra premium got you, what does people call, the B&O experience, whether that be elegant user interface and image processing, and so felt like an enhanced experience (yes the centre speaker won't compare well to the Elcipse, i know)

I thin thats where the issue is for some people - even my dealer, when he showed me the Eclipse for the first time when he got it, his first words were "it just feels like you're using an LG".

But that is where we are, and likely to be.

 

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