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BEOVISION ECLIPSE

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seethroughyou
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moxxey:

Watch a Blu-ray on a plasma, for example, and the picture looks vibrant, smooth and deep. You almost never get the same effect on an LED, even on an OLED panel.

Have seen all sorts of B&O and non-B&O TVs come and go and have yet to see anything as captivating as the picture from my dad's BV12. Moxxey's description of the picture using the words as vibrant, smooth and deep is spot on. The deep part is so very true, it's almost like 3D the longer you stare and get consumed in it. Amazing.

.

 

 

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ed7
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ed7 replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 9:28 PM

I looked at the Sony Brivia 55 at today's price  is £2999  in john lewis/currys etc!,much better tv than LG tv  imho ,even got iPhone mirroring  so no need to ATV ,am not going to compare it to Bang & olufsen !! i know better Big Smile, If i invest £16k (eclipse)i defiantly  know this will be outdated in a years or so, like for like i can buy 4 generations of sony for less than one  BV!!?,  Past examples  bv 7 versions  8-10 years pretty much worthless/given away !! ! bv 5 the same unless later models so why this will be any different?? Once bitten twice shy am afraidSurprise

Millemissen
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Lars Ladingkaer:

Puncher:

I understand the differences but, not having been in the market for a tv for a while, have read only good things about oled and had expected a more "plasma-like" picture, given they are both "light emitting" technologies,  rather than the coloured-filter picture of led.

Maybe I'm over-reacting to what was a very short viewing. 

 

Beware that the default picture modes with enhanced colours, details and contrast can be quite terrible, this also goes for the Eclipse.

But Eclipse ships with two more suitable modes:

 

  • Expert light room
  • Expert dark room

 

They look to be calibrated picture modes. One for light rooms (daylight) and another for dark rooms (evening/night)

  /Lars

I don't know why Lars did not post the link to his - the first one I have seen - more indepth going test of the BV Eclipse:

But here we go:

http://www.recordere.dk/2017/09/test-beovision-eclipse-oled-den-nye-konge-af-tv-lyd/

Maybe he was worried about it being in danish.

Feel free to use Google Translate, if you have to.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

The Beonic Man
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Excellent... thanks MM!

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The Beonic Man
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English (translated) link here...

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Chris Townsend
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ed7:

I looked at the Sony Brivia 55 at today's price is £2999 in john lewis/currys etc!,much better tv than LG tv imho ,even got iPhone mirroring so no need to ATV ,am not going to compare it to Bang & olufsen !! i know better , If i invest £16k (eclipse)i defiantly know this will be outdated in a years or so, like for like i can buy 4 generations of sony for less than one BV!!?, Past examples bv 7 versions 8-10 years pretty much worthless/given away !! ! bv 5 the same unless later models so why this will be any different?? Once bitten twice shy am afraid

The Loewe is only £500 more, comes with a remote stand, a decent inbuilt sound bar (centre channel), a 1Tb hard drive and a 5.1 AV decoder. £2,000 less than the smaller non OLED Horizon!

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 3:41 AM

ed7:

I looked at the Sony Brivia 55 at today's price  is £2999  in john lewis/currys etc!,much better tv than LG tv  imho ,even got iPhone mirroring  so no need to ATV ,am not going to compare it to Bang & olufsen !! i know better Big Smile, If i invest £16k (eclipse)i defiantly  know this will be outdated in a years or so, like for like i can buy 4 generations of sony for less than one  BV!!?,  Past examples  bv 7 versions  8-10 years pretty much worthless/given away !! ! bv 5 the same unless later models so why this will be any different?? Once bitten twice shy am afraidSurprise

Hard to argue with that reasoning, and I think many share it including me. You can buy a lot of displays for the price of the Eclipse, or one gigantic one for real cinema like size. Whether the Game clips sells depends on how many want a Beovision at all costs. Will be interesting as the sales numbers start to come in. 

Jeff

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 3:43 AM

Eclipse, not game clips, I love autocorrect. 

Jeff

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svinaik
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svinaik replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 12:44 PM

Folks, another thought worth discussing...

I think that the reason Eclipse was not introduced in 77 inch model is that the LG 77 inch TVs use "Picture on Glass" design which may require significant additional work from designing point as compared to 55 inch and 65 inch where B&O used the C7 TV with a standard plastic back.

Could it be that we may see a proper BV Eclipse in 77 inch as B&O will have to take into consideration of Glass Surround and will be forced to put some serious design effort ?

Any thoughts ?

Duels
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Duels replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 12:53 PM
I think it would just be too big for a design like the eclipse which to my eye has a similar appearance to the BV11/14. At that size it's screen only.
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BeoET replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 5:05 PM

Just learned today that the Eclipse will not (!) be able to control the BS9k, or work together with the BV5 and BL8k in a multiroom setup. It looks like B&O have got similar requests from existing customers, but with the current SW setup it will not work. Hopefully B&O will upgrade the Eclipse sw to enable such a setup.

So that means that we either have to wait (until a sw update) or upgrade the BV5 to a pre-owned  Beovision (11, 12, 14 or Avant) or buy a new 14 or Avant.

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linder
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linder replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 6:40 PM

BeoET:

Just learned today that the Eclipse will not (!) be able to control the BS9k, or work together with the BV5 and BL8k in a multiroom setup. It looks like B&O have got similar requests from existing customers, but with the current SW setup it will not work. Hopefully B&O will upgrade the Eclipse sw to enable such a setup.

So that means that we either have to wait (until a sw update) or upgrade the BV5 to a pre-owned  Beovision (11, 12, 14 or Avant) or buy a new 14 or Avant.

Thanks for this post. It is a great question.  I have read the setup instructions for the Beovision Eclipse.  It will work with NL products such as Beosound 2 but I could not find any reference to a NL/ML converter or the limitations of earlier products. Maybe some of the dealers who post on Beoworld have some ideas.

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 7:01 PM

linder:
 It will work with NL products such as Beosound 2 but I could not find any reference to a NL/ML converter or the limitations of earlier products. Maybe some of the dealers who post on Beoworld have some ideas.
Interesting would be: start a BLC connected ML source. Give a JOIN to for example an A6 and the Eclipse.

or

program the BLC connected ML product as a source of an Essence mkII. Start this source on the Essence and JOIN the Eclipse!

 

 

elephant
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elephant replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 7:40 PM
What would be interesting is if the soundbar could be purchased by itself !

It seems the integration is simply HDMI2 and the power supply !

Is there a "beosystem 5" inside the soundbar ?????

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Puncher
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Puncher replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 8:17 PM

elephant:
Is there a "beosystem 5" inside the soundbar

No - that would imply a video engine included.

Ban boring signatures!

vikinger
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vikinger replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 8:41 PM

Puncher:

elephant:
Is there a "beosystem 5" inside the soundbar

No - that would imply a video engine included.

But presumably there is a PUC module to control the screen.... the reverse of what is found in previous  Beovisions.

Graham

Lars Ladingkaer
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vikinger:

Puncher:

elephant:
Is there a "beosystem 5" inside the soundbar

No - that would imply a video engine included.

But presumably there is a PUC module to control the screen.... the reverse of what is found in previous  Beovisions.

Graham

 

There is a videopart in Sound Center as well, since it handles the primary HDMI-inputs. But its merely af videoswitcher like the one found in AV-receivers, switching inputs to the TV-part.

I don't see any videoprocessing in Sound Center.

  /Lars

 

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Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 9:24 PM
The soundbar by itself controlled via hdmi arc/cec and puc etc like it more less is now would be ideal. Even if b&o would only support lg's, and maby very few others, atleast that would give us easier size choice and upgradeability. I have the feeling that the soundbar in 2-4 years time will still be top notch, but the screen/webos not so much. Unless somehow they've managed to make lg support this platform longer than lg does with its own platforms.

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The Beonic Man
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What I am starting to wonder is if it is now too late now for B&O to recover or come back on the TV front. For example, I have been waiting a few years purposely for this OLED in the desperate hope that it would be the right TV. I would never wait so long with any other brand so if that doesn't show loyalty, hope and support for my favourite brand on my part I don't know what does. Like many of its recent predecessors, it hasn't been even close to what I expected, and in many ways its shortcomings are even worse (in my opinion) in the sense of less B&O. I simply can't keep waiting for the generation 2 in the hope this will be what I expect, then generation 3 if generation 2 is a further let down and so on. I think B&O have proved that they just don't get it on the TV front. They're not in touch with what their customers look for in a Bang & Olufsen product anymore.

I will need to buy a TV in the next 6 months when my house renovations are complete and I think I'll be hard pushed paying c£5,000 for an Avant 2014 model or earlier when there are sets like the Sony A1 out there now, let alone what might be available in 6 months. If I do decide to pay 'B&O money' I would get the LG W7 wallpaper TV. Who wouldn't? Let's be serious for a minute, who on earth would buy an Eclipse over that? Some here would perhaps, and if you are one of them (genuinely) then please tell me your reasoning as I am very curious to know how you arrive at this decision.  

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elephant
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elephant replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 10:08 PM
D'accord

I agree

Like you I had been hoping it was THE BeoVision

Now I am struggling - perhaps (without your good reasons) I'll also wait for six months ...

Deep down I am hoping that I could sit down with someone from Struer and discover there is a lot more behind the covers ... I sincerely deeply fanatically hope so ...

BeoNut since '75

elephant
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elephant replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 10:16 PM
Lars Ladingkaer:

elephant:

Is there a "beosystem 5" inside the soundbar

Puncher:

No - that would imply a video engine included.

But presumably there is a PUC module to control the screen.... the reverse of what is found in previous Beovisions.

Graham

vikinger:

There is a videopart in Sound Center as well, since it handles the primary HDMI-inputs. But its merely af videoswitcher like the one found in AV-receivers, switching inputs to the TV-part.

I don't see any videoprocessing in Sound Center.

/Lars

The B&O doco even discourages you from using the spare LG HDMI ports on the panel !

BeoNut since '75

Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 10:19 PM
The main reason iam still up in the air over the eclipse is mostly the sound and sound integration. Granted i'd be looking at the 55" version now as i truely can't justify the price of the 65". I'd rather have the 65" but my livingroom isn't that big and i can live with the 55" as its already an upgrade from my bv10-46. I too have been waiting purpousfully on this lg screen and am somewhat disapointed by how much lg there is in the viewing experience. Having said that iam very happy with the sound of it, so its a very mixed bag.

I am of the opinion that sound is more important for immersiveness in films etc than the picture is, how ever both are important, 60/40 split or so.

All in all, i just don't know what to make of it yet, i feel a b&o premium is deffinately warrented, but i feel that this time around it is a bit too much. Even as is i think that much of this discussion would've been less negative if the pricepoint was about 1.5-2k lower for both. Now its much, much more of a consideration before buying even for us fanboys Stick out tongue

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elephant:
D'accord

I agree

Like you I had been hoping it was THE BeoVision

Now I am struggling - perhaps (without your good reasons) I'll also wait for six months ...

Deep down I am hoping that I could sit down with someone from Struer and discover there is a lot more behind the covers ... I sincerely deeply fanatically hope so ...

As would I. With a chance to chat to those in Struer I would say, "Listen guys, I would pay c£5,000 for your 3 year old Avant 2014 model if it had full array backlit dimming zones." This would have represented the best panel they could have sourced at the time and justify the premium asking price. However, I would have found it difficult to pay a premium in 2014 for an edge lit TV let alone buy that same model now, 3 years later.

The B&O magic was present in the motorised stands and speakers and quite superbly executed I may add - no complaints there and I loved it. Absolutely fine in the audio department too, as we have come to expect from B&O and generally never found disappointment, but... falling short in the video/picture department. The 4K capabilities were not up to date with cheaper competitors; neither HDMI and HDR capabilities when that were available on other sets.

It's fine to charge a premium price IF the product justifies the price tag. It didn't and neither has anything since.

I should really be asking B&O (rather than the forum) why they expected customers to buy their televisions? I should very much like to here their reasoning and justification. It is clear they are fighting a losing battle.

There are people with money to burn; those who don't care about the technology and just want the name, I accept this fact. I am not one of them but acknowledge there is a market. I question though just what percentage of the marketplace this is and whether it enough to keep the brand afloat? I hope so for B&O's sake, I really really do.

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BillC
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BillC replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 10:43 PM
The Eclipse isn't what I was hoping for. Having passed over the Avant 85 (don't ask why) and regretting it, I was hoping to get something smaller for the formal room that is elegant but somewhat future proof. The Eclipse is a bit too much for what it is. I'll always buy B&O for audio as I believe it's quality, design, sound and price mix is justifiable but I've given up trying for a B&O tv.

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moxxey replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 10:48 PM

A question I'd like to ask, following SHEFFIELD claiming a number of Eclipse sales.

Who on here has actually pre-ordered/bought an Eclipse? There's a lot of people on this forum - someone must have placed an order. If so, when do you receive you set?

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Another 'look' at the BV Eclipse.

A regular test will follow - I suppose also on the Flatpanelshd-site

http://www.flatpanels.dk/nyhed.php?subaction=showfull&id=1505129811

MM

 

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Millemissen
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elephant:

The B&O doco even discourages you from using the spare LG HDMI ports on the panel !

You can use these, for sure - but if you want PUC-controlling of the connected devices, you must use those in the SoundCenter.

MM

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elephant
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elephant replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 10:59 PM
Mikipedia:

The main reason iam still up in the air over the eclipse is mostly the sound and sound integration. Granted i'd be looking at the 55" version now as i truely can't justify the price of the 65". I'd rather have the 65" but my livingroom isn't that big and i can live with the 55" as its already an upgrade from my bv10-46. I too have been waiting purpousfully on this lg screen and am somewhat disapointed by how much lg there is in the viewing experience. Having said that iam very happy with the sound of it, so its a very mixed bag.

I have thought of that option.

In Australian dollars the delta between 65" and 55" is $22,000 - $16,000 = $6,000 ... is 1,500 cafe lattes too much to pay for an extra 10" ?

BeoNut since '75

Lars Ladingkaer
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elephant:
is 1,500 cafe lattes too much to pay for an extra 10" ?

Who can drink 1,500 cafe lattes? Hope this answers your question Stick out tongueSmile

  /Lars

 

 

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w5bno123 replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 11:10 PM
moxxey:

A question I'd like to ask, following SHEFFIELD claiming a number of Eclipse sales.

Who on here has actually pre-ordered/bought an Eclipse? There's a lot of people on this forum - someone must have placed an order. If so, when do you receive you set?

The three that we’ve sold from Ealing are being installed in 4 weeks time upon their arrival. All three are actually to new clients.
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Mikipidia replied on Mon, Sep 11 2017 11:31 PM
elephant:

I have thought of that option.

In Australian dollars the delta between 65" and 55" is $22,000 - $16,000 = $6,000 ... is 1,500 cafe lattes too much to pay for an extra 10" ? BeoNut since '75

Lol, yea i guess. But frankly that difference is mostly in the screen, right? I mean, the soundbar is exactly the same other than it physically being bigger.

What iam trying to say is that with the 55" you don't get any less speaker or anything else.

One thing i find od is that the alu cover for both 55" and 65" is €800 here. Don't get me wrong, i don't mind that, however it seems somewhat strange.

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KMA replied on Tue, Sep 12 2017 12:31 AM
BAND'OH!:

I will need to buy a TV in the next 6 months when my house renovations are complete and I think I'll be hard pushed paying c£5,000 for an Avant 2014 model or earlier when there are sets like the Sony A1 out there now, let alone what might be available in 6 months.

CES 2018 is in January, only a four (!!) months from now. Sony, Panasonic & others will present their new top-of-the-line OLEDs. We already know where Loewe is heading, seeing their prototypes at IFA (FlatpanelsHD has an article on them).

It's that time of year when all this year's models start to come down in price, and many already have (LG C7 55", which is in Eclipse, has dropped from €3.790 to €2.490, and dropping). What is certain is that Eclipse's price will not drop to reflect the LG prices, so its value proposition gets worse all the time.

If B&O is not a necessity because of multiroom, or blind brand loyalty, now may not be the best time to make a decision on what to get. 4 months will make your wiser.

KMA

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KMA:

CES 2018 is in January, only a four (!!) months from now. Sony, Panasonic & others will present their new top-of-the-line OLEDs. We already know where Loewe is heading, seeing their prototypes at IFA (FlatpanelsHD has an article on them).

It's that time of year when all this year's models start to come down in price, and many already have (LG C7 55", which is in Eclipse, has dropped from €3.790 to €2.490, and dropping). What is certain is that Eclipse's price will not drop to reflect the LG prices, so its value proposition gets worse all the time.

If B&O is not a necessity because of multiroom, or blind brand loyalty, now may not be the best time to make a decision on what to get. 4 months will make your wiser. KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

As I've said, B&O shoukd make a stand/soundbar/connection panel that accepts the LG screen of the day/owner's choosing

B
Millemissen
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KMA:
BAND'OH!:

I will need to buy a TV in the next 6 months when my house renovations are complete and I think I'll be hard pushed paying c£5,000 for an Avant 2014 model or earlier when there are sets like the Sony A1 out there now, let alone what might be available in 6 months.

CES 2018 is in January, only a four (!!) months from now. Sony, Panasonic & others will present their new top-of-the-line OLEDs. We already know where Loewe is heading, seeing their prototypes at IFA (FlatpanelsHD has an article on them).

It's that time of year when all this year's models start to come down in price, and many already have (LG C7 55", which is in Eclipse, has dropped from €3.790 to €2.490, and dropping). What is certain is that Eclipse's price will not drop to reflect the LG prices, so its value proposition gets worse all the time.

If B&O is not a necessity because of multiroom, or blind brand loyalty, now may not be the best time to make a decision on what to get. 4 months will make your wiser.

What if there is a LG C8 in the BVEclipse this time next year?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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moxxey replied on Tue, Sep 12 2017 10:30 AM

Barry Santini:

As I've said, B&O shoukd make a stand/soundbar/connection panel that accepts the LG screen of the day/owner's choosing

We've been over this and dismissed it. Completely impractical for various (and very obvious) reasons:

1) B&O has no idea what LG is producing and the middle part of the soundbar needs to fit the panel snuggly for it not to look like a mess. How on earth does B&O produce a universal soundbar to suit current LGs and future LGs? For example, if I went out and spent £2500 on the soundbar now, and want to "pick and choose an LG screen at my leisure" (which is what you're implying), when does that leisure guarantee end? Will B&O 'guarantee' my soundbar fits the panel released in only 6 months time?

2) The soundbar would be extremely expensive on its own. Possibly as much as £2500 or more. Really, seriously, how many soundbars would B&O sell at that price? Most people I know think £800 is a lot for a soundbar.

3) How would B&O integrate the PUC and other elements with a completely separate panel? There's some basic interaction between LG and B&O.

4) The LG panel has a custom back panel. Are you saying that this is disregarded by B&O and you simply just walk into your local high street retailer, pick up any old LG panel, grab your £2500 soundbar from B&O and simply "slot it in and go"?

Do people actually *think* things through?

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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 12 2017 10:36 AM

Not this again?

Wonderful idea in theory, but totally unworkable in practice, i agree.

And i'd add a bit to that 2500 cost (the A9 is 1800 as it is).

In an imaginary universe where this thing exists, if it had some LG plug i guarantee, it would be around 4500.

But anyway, it doesn't exist, so the above is not time well spent, with all due respect to the suggestion.

 

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Millemissen:

What if there is a LG C8 in the BVEclipse this time next year?

 

Yes, there will be a new LG OLED in Eclipse each year.

Expect Eclipse to ship with C8 from sometime next year and C9 the year after.

Thats what B&O told us at the IFA show.

And this do make sense. Since LG is not going to maintain a production of old models, just for one smaller client.

  /Lars

 

 

Editor in Chief, recordere.dk
Danish online magazine for consumer electronics

vikinger
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vikinger replied on Tue, Sep 12 2017 10:56 AM

moxxey:

Barry Santini:

As I've said, B&O shoukd make a stand/soundbar/connection panel that accepts the LG screen of the day/owner's choosing

We've been over this and dismissed it. Completely impractical for various (and very obvious) reasons:

1) B&O has no idea what LG is producing and the middle part of the soundbar needs to fit the panel snuggly for it not to look like a mess. How on earth does B&O produce a universal soundbar to suit current LGs and future LGs? For example, if I went out and spent £2500 on the soundbar now, and want to "pick and choose an LG screen at my leisure" (which is what you're implying), when does that leisure guarantee end? Will B&O 'guarantee' my soundbar fits the panel released in only 6 months time?

2) The soundbar would be extremely expensive on its own. Possibly as much as £2500 or more. Really, seriously, how many soundbars would B&O sell at that price? Most people I know think £800 is a lot for a soundbar.

3) How would B&O integrate the PUC and other elements with a completely separate panel? There's some basic interaction between LG and B&O.

4) The LG panel has a custom back panel. Are you saying that this is disregarded by B&O and you simply just walk into your local high street retailer, pick up any old LG panel, grab your £2500 soundbar from B&O and simply "slot it in and go"?

Do people actually *think* things through?

Have you noticed the several previous Beovisions that have a separate sound bar? Quite easy for the screen to have it's separate wall mount or motorised column mount with the sound bar. The panel does not have to slot into the sound bar unless you want a particular look like the Eclipse.

Graham

KMA
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KMA replied on Tue, Sep 12 2017 10:57 AM
Millemissen:

What if there is a LG C8 in the BVEclipse this time next year?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

If there's an LG C8 in the Eclipse next year, I'd hope anyone who buys an Eclipse now can simply switch the C7 for C8, should they want to upgrade.

I don't see it happening, though – the upgrade path. Where would all the Eclipse's C7 TVs go?

Also, if B&O learns anything from the feedback, they'd invest a bit more in the GUI & user experience of Eclipse Mk II. Bring back a little B&O into the vision part! That would make Mk II a better value proposition.

Plus after CES we'll know what new alternatives there are. Perhaps they'll be poor / hideous, or the likes of Sony will double their OLED prices, making Eclipse seem like a better value.

Why hurry throwing your money at the current money-milking combo?

KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Sep 12 2017 10:57 AM

Not sure that makes any difference to the thought process above.

I think the point is that if he is thinking of going non-BV, he can chose a 2017 model (Sony, Loewe whatever) or opt for a 2018 model in the new year.

Anyway, those 2018 models won't hit the stores until May 2018 at the earliest, so its not a 6 month wait from here, more like 9-10 months.

As for price drops, i wonder if Loewe prices really do drop very much in the last few months of their cycle. LG etc, sure, they drop. Loewe not so sure, of thats one of the options.

 

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