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BEOVISION ECLIPSE

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svinaik
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svinaik replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 6:58 PM

Sandyb:
Peak "Apple is coming out with a TV " had passed years ago I thought

 

 

The Apple TV interface is fine, I use it amongst other things, but it's not the steps forward in the TV experience that many want

 

 

Best guess of the margin on their products is 50% on the iPhone and 25% on the ipad..that should tell you everything. There is nothing to gain by getting into the TV market. They can achieve a presence in the lounge using Apple TV boxes and making content, itself risky.

 

 

I have a 27 Inch Apple screen - it's great, but so what? It's not being asked to do the same job as top end OLED screens, so that's rather meaningless....and when it comes to trust, Sony and Panasonic have video credentials, look at how their recent TV'S have rated above LG, precisely for that reason

 

 

So sure, it would be nice to power on your big screen and be greeted by a nothing but Apple experience, but not one single thing they have done should lead you to expect such an outcome.

 

 

And there is a reason why... They can't even cut the content deals they want, so the rest just collapses from there

 

 

Idealised utopias are one thing, understanding why we're not there is another

Agree with you 120%

BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 7:18 PM
Michael:
. It doesn't have any dust inside it either while my Avant does, my both previous Avants had fingerprints and other blemishes as well. Experts.

My sons Imac 21.5" as dust under the screen. Bought new, broke (mother board) just after the end of the two years warranty. First and last Mac of my life.

Michael
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Michael replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 8:41 PM
Sandyb:

Peak "Apple is coming out with a TV " had passed years ago I thought

The Apple TV interface is fine, I use it amongst other things, but it's not the steps forward in the TV experience that many want

Best guess of the margin on their products is 50% on the iPhone and 25% on the ipad..that should tell you everything. There is nothing to gain by getting into the TV market. They can achieve a presence in the lounge using Apple TV boxes and making content, itself risky.

I have a 27 Inch Apple screen - it's great, but so what? It's not being asked to do the same job as top end OLED screens, so that's rather meaningless....and when it comes to trust, Sony and Panasonic have video credentials, look at how their recent TV'S have rated above LG, precisely for that reason

So sure, it would be nice to power on your big screen and be greeted by a nothing but Apple experience, but not one single thing they have done should lead you to expect such an outcome.

And there is a reason why... They can't even cut the content deals they want, so the rest just collapses from there

Idealised utopias are one thing, understanding why we're not there is another

I do believe they can make a profit and they have great stores to display TVs in. They have Apple TV with other screens now and everything in stock is in a storage behind the stores if it's expensive. The TVs could easily be sold that way and it would give the end user a very fluid experience throughout the electronics they have in their home.

I realize not everyone believes in the market but I do. Apple has great screens on their devices and know how to make them greater and appeal to the end user. People buys iPhones for 1000 dollars, many do yearly. And macs for four times that price.

Don't forget Apple do sell cheaper products as well. Not just phones or iPads. I don't think there is a problem at all for them to find a good market place for an Apple designed TV. But if it will happen or not I don't know. I just know they have many features that's already perfect for one. And I hope they will.
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BestSound replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 8:45 PM

I don’t get it, how can the 55’ version be priced £ 7145, - and the 65’ version £ 11000, - A differences of insane £ 3855, - it really not make any sense to me.

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Bv7Mk3
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Bv7Mk3 replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 9:00 PM

The 65" should be £9,500  as if too close to the 55" the 55"would lose sales to the 65" but the

65" too much,then won't sell as many and the 55" would sell more.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 9:05 PM
Plug an Apple TV into your BV, more or less there

Apple video processing vs Sony / Panasonic? No contest, or at least I know who has proven credentials

I'd highly encourage you to move on from the idea, but that's up to you of course

Michael
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Michael replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 9:18 PM
Sandyb:

Plug an Apple TV into your BV, more or less there

Apple video processing vs Sony / Panasonic? No contest, or at least I know who has proven credentials

I'd highly encourage you to move on from the idea, but that's up to you of course

Why "move on"? It's not like my world stops because I think Apple makes great products. I already have two very good B&O sets and I would gladly buy one from Apple as well.

You have your opinion and I have mine, simple as that :-).
svinaik
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svinaik replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 9:27 PM

Hi Michael

That's why this world is so wonderful . We are here only to share and learn . I am all for Apple to come with a TV and though being an Apple Fan through and through , I will still buy Sony TV just like I care not about Apple Beats and use Sony Z1R and Beoplay H8 headphones . One has to recognize everyone's strength and go for what we believe is the best solution for each one of us .

 

 

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 9:40 PM

Michael:
You have your opinion and I have mine, simple as that :-).

It's not an opinion - it's this constant idea/thought that Apple is *still* working on this much-discussed television, which was first rumoured in 2010. As if a) it takes 7 years to produce it, b) they can make such a radical departure it was worth this long wait and c) that televisions, in 2017, are really a growth area that Apple needs to enter - they were close to quitting their own "Pro" desktop market until recently!

As a huge Apple fan, of course, I'd love Apple to release a TV (and plenty of other devices), but I don't keep repeating the same conversation with "wait until Apple release..." talk which we've been doing for 7 years now :)

Chris Townsend
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I come back to this thread and it's all gone apples and pears.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new Eclipse, but I've got to say the Loewe 65 inch Bild 5 at only £5,800 is burning a hole in my pocket at the moment. I'm a fanboy, but the extra video processing over standard LG, electronic curtains and an £8,000 saving! It's going to have to be pretty good.

https://uk.loewe.tv/bild/bild-5-oled/

Love that wooden stand on the 65

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 10:06 PM
Exactly, of course everyone is entitled to wish for certain things

But the logic for Apple producing a TV fell apart a while ago. In spelling out why that logic fell away, I'm only repeating the view amongst the tech community.

But simply repeating "I think they can do a TV " without engaging in the underlying problem is frustrating and not really a debate.

And the original post of "imagine how good an Apple TV could be" exposes the fragility of the premises.

They don't have the video chops if other manufacturers, nor the audio credentials of B&O, and TV OS is adequate, not the step change that was hoped for, and is too reliant on 3rd party providers playing ball.

So it seems obvious that the hurdle is high, at least if you want something much better than we essentially have.

That was after all the implication - imagine how good it could be.

At some point one has to engage with why they haven't yet.
Michael
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Michael replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 10:08 PM
moxxey:

It's not an opinion - it's this constant idea/thought that Apple is *still* working on this much-discussed television, which was first rumoured in 2010. As if a) it takes 7 years to produce it, b) they can make such a radical departure it was worth this long wait and c) that televisions, in 2017, are really a growth area that Apple needs to enter - they were close to quitting their own "Pro" desktop market until recently!

As a huge Apple fan, of course, I'd love Apple to release a TV (and plenty of other devices), but I don't keep repeating the same conversation with "wait until Apple release..." talk which we've been doing for 7 years now :)

I don't know or think/have an opinion of how long or not they might or not might have been trying it out. It just makes me happy to keep a curious and dreaming mind :). I do too love Apple. I bought AirPods to try them out and first hated the sound. Took a few weeks to get them broken in and now I love them. They connect instantly, never fails. The pairing is so simple. Open the box and hold them close to your phone. Voila - done! And not only that, it's immediately paired with your iPad, computer and watch as well - via AppleID. Probably the Apple TV box too.

Seeing how they just changed the game on headphones in a heartbeat makes me feel like they can tackle a lot. They are working on cars and so on too.

And ARKit of course. When people were laughing at Apple they release probably one of the best AR/VR engineering efforts ever. Just like that they changed that too. Really like them.

At the same time my Avant 55 still can't play Netflix in surround in 4K due to the Tv failing to report back to hdmi devices that it supports the hd audio format. So it falls back on stereo. That's a 10k Tv Surprise.

But anyway, a bit off topic of course. I'd be happy to see eclipse in a week but I will dream about an Apple TV still :-).
vlohjr1
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vlohjr1 replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 10:23 PM
Chris Townsend:

I come back to this thread and it's all gone apples and pears.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new Eclipse, but I've got to say the Loewe 65 inch Bild 5 at only £5,800 is burning a hole in my pocket at the moment. I'm a fanboy, but the extra video processing over standard LG, electronic curtains and an £8,000 saving! It's going to have to be pretty good.

https://uk.loewe.tv/bild/bild-5-oled/

Love that wooden stand on the 65

Beovision 7-55 Mk2, Avant RF 28, Beolab 5, Beolit 15, Beoplay A1/A2, Beocom 2, Beotime, H3 ANC/H8/H6/H2, Form 2, Beoplay A3, Beovision 5-42 connected to a DVD1

I would say Chris from what I have seen it will beat Loewe hands downBig Smile
Chris Townsend
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I really hope soYes - thumbs up

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Fri, Aug 25 2017 10:53 PM
Oh I understand the instinct of "can Apple do something amazing in the TV experience?" Many went through that thought process years ago. But the more sensible amongst the tech and investment community were sceptical for a reason and they've been proved right.

It's because they understand that repeating the transformation of the music industry can't be replicated similarly in TV. The issues are significantly more complex.

And the upside to making TV hardware is low to say the least.

And I think it is a stretch to say Airpods have transformed the headphone industry. My best friend returned his the next day, due to poor battery life (common complaint) recently. They've had some success sure, but transformation, that's over reaching.

But maybe that's the rub - Apple could do a TV tomorrow, but it won't be very interesting or exciting. And that's why they won't - the consumer proposition would be weak, in so far as they like to if not transform, at least make things much better.

Gene Munster, seasoned Apple analyst, used to ask about this repeatedly on earnings calls years ago. Everyone else, Cook and Jobs included, rolled their eyes in response. I know how they felt now.

IA64
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IA64 replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 1:24 AM

Can we please stop this Apple discussion and stick to the topic ? Everytime I get a notification on my mobile I'm like, well there's some news.... then it's about an absolutely out of topic subject.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 7:53 AM

Chris Townsend:
I come back to this thread and it's all gone apples and pears.

It always does Chris. I genuinely think some Mac fans assume if they keep mentioning "if Apple produce a TV..." enough times, it will happen as Apple will somehow notice the demand. Sad really and takes us completely off-topic, talking about hypothetical stuff which is almost never going to happen. And it's been that way for seven years now.

Yes, let's discuss the new Eclipse, how it compares to TVs on the market such as the Bild, A1 and objects you can actually purchase.

Emil Jensen
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I have also looked very close at Loewe BILD 5.

A very good looking tv,

I am just missing somethings.

A proper surround processor 

A good enough remote

good enough puc control

a good enough speaker

a better finish 

built in apps as Netflix.

 

And it have my interest that there is a built in essence in the Beovision as it would be better as a radio in the livingroom.

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vlohjr1
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vlohjr1 replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 9:41 AM
Emil Jensen:

I have also looked very close at Loewe BILD 5.

A very good looking tv,

I am just missing somethings.

A proper surround processor

A good enough remote

good enough puc control

a good enough speaker

a better finish

built in apps as Netflix.

And it have my interest that there is a built in essence in the Beovision as it would be better as a radio in the livingroom.

Beolab 20, Beolab 17, Transmitter 1

Apparently the eclipse is being designed with a sound system in mind first as I was told then videoSurprise
olvisab
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olvisab replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 11:22 AM

moxxey:

It always does Chris. I genuinely think some Mac fans assume if they keep mentioning "if Apple produce a TV..." enough times, it will happen as Apple will somehow notice the demand.

Phenomena perfectly explained. Dr Moxxey

Personnally, if I have to choose between a lg a sony tv and a loewe bild. i would certainly choose the loewe. The gap is not very high regarding the price and the design is appealing sometimes.

But according to me it can't compete with a beovision.

However what b&o providing/adding is quite expensive but it makes the difference.

 

 

 

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Bv7Mk3
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Bv7Mk3 replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 1:19 PM

Can anyone tell me what connections are on the new tv? Also  do you think that the bild 9 loewe tv is the one to match the Eclipse to?

paolomariano
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I have not seen it yet, and I am not very good at drawing but this is how I figure it out, according to all the leaked information I have collected... Wink

I just wonder what the maximum width of the speaker will be in the 55"...

Will it fit in the room occupied by my Bv 10-40?

If not, will it make any sense to remove the bl 12-3 and only use bv eclipse speaker as a 2.1 system? Would it be possible to use the eclipse as central and front right and left speaker and use my bl 12-2s as rear speakers?

What I really would like to see is that wow effect given by the contrast between a presumably extremely thin screen and a solid speaker making the screen even lighter when you look at it...

I am really looking forward to see the tv in flesh...

IA64
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IA64 replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 2:06 PM

paolomariano:
I have not seen it yet, and I am not very good at drawing but this is how I figure it out, according to all the leaked information I have collected... Wink

 

 

 

 

I just wonder what the maximum width of the speaker will be in the 55"...

 

Will it fit in the room occupied by my Bv 10-40?

 

If not, will it make any sense to remove the bl 12-3 and only use bv eclipse speaker as a 2.1 system? Would it be possible to use the eclipse as central and front right and left speaker and use my bl 12-2s as rear speakers?

 

 

What I really would like to see is that wow effect given by the contrast between a presumably extremely thin screen and a solid speaker making the screen even lighter when you look at it...

 

I am really looking forward to see the tv in flesh...

 

 

 

Yup, I've seen the real pictures and this is exactly how it looks like. The part below the soundbar is glass.

 

Beofan2
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Beofan2 replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 3:30 PM

Danish online magazine made an update of their mock up. 

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 3:52 PM
Saw a picture of the remote that comes with the Eclipse, with Amazon and Netflix buttons right below the screen. That way you loose 3 shortcut buttons, and that is a shame.

I bet the designer of BeoRemote One where unhappy with the look. Surprise

 

 

 

 

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KMA
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KMA replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 4:00 PM
Beofan2:

Danish online magazine made an update of their mock up.

If this is 97% close to the real thing, it looks like I'll have to get one.

I very recently upgraded my LG OLED 55B6 to this year's model B7. The picture on both have been immensely enjoyable (in my opinion, lot better than the BV11 picture). To my surprise, the B7 has a clear edge over the already stellar last year's model, especially in the near-black performance.

Since the Eclipse has the same panel as B7, the added B&O design touches & sound will only improve the OLED experience I've got used to. And thank god, no Android. WebOS is a joy.

Eagerly waiting for next week!

KMA

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Sandyb replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 4:03 PM
I believe you can use a regular BR One with the Eclipse, for those who really don't like the Netflix buttons etc.

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KMA:
If this is 97% close to the real thing, it looks like I'll have to get one.

I agree KMA! I really like the mock up (pictured above) and think that any glass below the speaker would look very stylish! I am very excited if the TV looks like this. Also looking forward to next week. I will view the product in person as soon as I am able to. I understand that the majority of dealers the UK are receiving the TVs today and will be installing them in the coming days, so next week should be the time I am able to see a demo. Let's hope so. I guess it could be sooner for some (maybe today) if they are visiting a dealer which already has the TV set up and allows customers to look but not photograph etc.

I am happy to wait!

Smile

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Hiort
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Hiort replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 4:51 PM
Sandyb:

I believe you can use a regular BR One with the Eclipse, for those who really don't like the Netflix buttons etc.

Of course you can, but then you will have to buy one extra..

 

 

 

 

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vlohjr1
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vlohjr1 replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 5:52 PM
KMA:

If this is 97% close to the real thing, it looks like I'll have to get one.

I very recently upgraded my LG OLED 55B6 to this year's model B7. The picture on both have been immensely enjoyable (in my opinion, lot better than the BV11 picture). To my surprise, the B7 has a clear edge over the already stellar last year's model, especially in the near-black performance.

Since the Eclipse has the same panel as B7, the added B&O design touches & sound will only improve the OLED experience I've got used to. And thank god, no Android. WebOS is a joy.

Eagerly waiting for next week! KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

I would say looking at the pics it's classic modern beovision something Loewe can't match
BestSound
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BestSound replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 6:09 PM

Emil Jensen:

I have also looked very close at Loewe BILD 5.

A very good looking tv,

I am just missing somethings.

A proper surround processor 

A good enough remote

good enough puc control

a good enough speaker

a better finish 

built in apps as Netflix.

 

And it have my interest that there is a built in essence in the Beovision as it would be better as a radio in the livingroom.

Hi Emil

I'm also a big fan of the Loewe Bild 5 and my choice will be between the new Eclipse and Bild 5, so just very interested to know what you see as the limitations in the build in surround decoder. It can handle true HD and DTS HD, but of course it’s only 5.1 not 7.1

 

BeoVision Eclipse 65....Front: BeoLab 5....Rear: BeoLab 4000....Beosound 9000 Mark lll....BeoRemote One BT....Apple TV 4K....NAS: Synologi DS218j....Disc Player: OPPO BDP-103....Projector: JVC HD-950....Screen: Stewart Film Screen StudioTek 100....HDMI management: HDFury Integral

Bv7Mk3
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Bv7Mk3 replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 10:29 PM

As the Eclipse is based on the lg b7 panel,here is a revew of the b7 panel....

http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/141951-lg-b7-review-an-oled-superstar

The Beonic Man
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Bv7Mk3:

As the Eclipse is based on the lg b7 panel,here is a revew of the b7 panel....

http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/141951-lg-b7-review-an-oled-superstar

Useful, thanks :)

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moxxey replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 10:55 PM

Beofan2:

Danish online magazine made an update of their mock up. 

According to someone here, it's still "guess work". We'll see next week but I bet it's very close.

Looks ok, but I was never a *huge* fan of the BL7.2 under the BV7. I swapped mine for a more compact BL7.4 and BL3s to the side of the BV7.

Aussie Michael
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moxxey:

According to someone here, it's still "guess work". We'll see next week but I bet it's very close.

Looks ok, but I was never a *huge* fan of the BL7.2 under the BV7. I swapped mine for a more compact BL7.4 and BL3s to the side of the BV7.

I prefer a speaker to be not wider than the TV but maybe I'll be converted in this model.
Peter Pan
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Peter Pan replied on Sat, Aug 26 2017 11:15 PM

 

Yes - thumbs up Beer

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IA64
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IA64 replied on Sun, Aug 27 2017 12:51 AM

Not that I wanna ruin the party to anyone but my dealer proposed both the Avant and Eclipse to me and I went for the Avant although the Eclipse is a bit cheaper. 

I don't like the Eclipse design, not at all to be honest. I still prefer the Avant for some reason. 

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svinaik replied on Sun, Aug 27 2017 1:09 AM

IA64:

Not that I wanna ruin the party to anyone but my dealer proposed both the Avant and Eclipse to me and I went for the Avant although the Eclipse is a bit cheaper. 

I don't like the Eclipse design, not at all to be honest. I still prefer the Avant for some reason. 

Now since you have done it, I will chip in as well. I did get the photos (not mock ups) and my wife and I reviewed them separately. Our collective opinion is that it is as mesh of designs between BV7 and Avant with the net results which is not better than either. The focus of the Eclipse is the sound bar and it actually distracts from the display which is the main reason for buying the TV in the first place. 

We are also no go on the 65 eclipse. I will wait and see if this design fits better with 77 inch (if it were to come) as I do not like sound bar sticking out of displays width. Seems like the people who designed the sound aspects took no account of the display dimensions. 

 

Michael
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Michael replied on Sun, Aug 27 2017 2:54 AM
moxxey:

It always does Chris. I genuinely think some Mac fans assume if they keep mentioning "if Apple produce a TV..." enough times, it will happen as Apple will somehow notice the demand. Sad really and takes us completely off-topic, talking about hypothetical stuff which is almost never going to happen. And it's been that way for seven years now.

Yes, let's discuss the new Eclipse, how it compares to TVs on the market such as the Bild, A1 and objects you can actually purchase.

Not a necessary and also not true remark. At least not for me. I just imagined and put up the technical aspects - many of which would make perfect sense developing in case a tv was a product for upcoming release. As I've repeatedly said: I don't know if they will but it wouldn't make me unhappy. Speculation is everyone's wild guess and with Apple you never know.

Regarding AirPods I think they have gotten a very good reception. Battery life is better than my H8 (since they charge in their case) and that's great. I wouldn't return them and I haven't. Instead I've bought many more and given away and everyone loves them. H8s? I'm on my third pair and they still work 70% times and sometimes won't connect.

But yes. The thread is about eclipse and we willl se it on Wednesday. Will be fun.
Duels
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Duels replied on Sun, Aug 27 2017 4:52 AM
svinaik:

The focus of the Eclipse is the sound bar and it actually distracts from the display which is the main reason for buying the TV in the first place.

I think having black cloth on the speaker bar rather than aluminium could address this.
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