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High end LP sound?

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Runeferg
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Runeferg posted on Fri, Aug 4 2017 12:57 PM

I've "fallen in love" with the look of vintage B&O equipment and had kind of decided on a Beocenter 7000 series and S45 speakers. Source is LPs. But I've been thinking: maybe I can get better audio (get close to high end maybe?) with separate LP player and amp? I prefer the look with wood panels. Any recommendations? And since Beocenter 7000 was mentioned; are there any differences, sound wise, between 7000, 7002 and 7007? Speaker selection is firm on S45s I think.

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ADU
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ADU replied on Fri, Aug 4 2017 1:51 PM

The Beocenter 7000/7002 has a fine record player with a MMC 20 EN Stylus elliptical naked diamond Pickup. Well - maybe the pickup need a replacement. Try search on Google or go here:

https://www.sound-smith.com/lookup/bo-cartridges/161

Maybe the record player belt also need replacement. Otherwise this record player and the pickup  was a fine product in those days for many years ago. Even the inbuilt tape recorder.

I would go for the inbuild record player.

Good luck with this fine productSmile

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Aug 4 2017 2:54 PM

I've had expensive high end LP decks, and back in college when I sold gear routinely set up tables I was in no condition to afford. I think your best bet if you are serious about LPs and not just want to play a couple of them would be to use the B&O turntable and buy a decent record cleaning machine, something like a Record Doctor.

Here's the difference in the experience of LP:

B&O Approach. Buy system, make sure you have a good cartridge, plug cartridge into arm. Put on LP. Sit back and enjoy the music.

High End LP Approach. Buy turntable, maybe without an arm. Obsess over whether the arm you have or are thinking of is suited to the table. Figure out how to mount the table so if someone walks across the room the record won't skip. Then obsess over which cartridge is best matched to the mass and resonance of the arm you have, high compliance, low compliance, high mass, low mass, etc. Mount cartridge, using an appropriate protractor designed for this purpose to make sure stylus overhang is right and the cartridge is parallel with the headshell. Play music, adjust as required. Next, set vertical tracking angle (VTA) (If it's a high end table arm height will be adjustable). Do this by playing a section of an album, adjusting arm height, relisten, readjust, relisten, etc. until the sound "pops" into focus. Try and remember if the lower/higher position sounded better or not, obsess over whether you've chosen the right VTA. Next, get your phono preamp setup, a high end one will allow you to choose cartridge loading, resistance and capacitance. If the cartridge maker doesn't specify what's correct, repeat same experiments as with VTA to find the right settings. Now you're ready, put an album on, sit down, and worry that there might be a better combination of VTA, resistance, capacitance, stylus overhand, that sounds better. Go fiddle with turntable, listen, get up and fiddle some more. Stick out tongue

I think the reason a lot of "audiophiles" are so enamored of turntables is it is a focus for their obsessive compulsive disorder.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Sal
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Sal replied on Fri, Aug 4 2017 3:56 PM

Jeff:
High End LP Approach. Buy turntable, maybe without an arm. Obsess over whether the arm you have or are thinking of is suited to the table. Figure out how to mount the table so if someone walks across the room the record won't skip. Then obsess over which cartridge is best matched to the mass and resonance of the arm you have, high compliance, low compliance, high mass, low mass, etc. Mount cartridge, using an appropriate protractor designed for this purpose to make sure stylus overhang is right and the cartridge is parallel with the headshell. Play music, adjust as required. Next, set vertical tracking angle (VTA) (If it's a high end table arm height will be adjustable). Do this by playing a section of an album, adjusting arm height, relisten, readjust, relisten, etc. until the sound "pops" into focus. Try and remember if the lower/higher position sounded better or not, obsess over whether you've chosen the right VTA. Next, get your phono preamp setup, a high end one will allow you to choose cartridge loading, resistance and capacitance. If the cartridge maker doesn't specify what's correct, repeat same experiments as with VTA to find the right settings. Now you're ready, put an album on, sit down, and worry that there might be a better combination of VTA, resistance, capacitance, stylus overhand, that sounds better. Go fiddle with turntable, listen, get up and fiddle some more. Stick out tongue

That sounds terrible. When does one actually get to enjoy the music? It seems like the individual who goes through all of the above, may continue to be focused on whether the music sounds as good as it can, and will likely only be listening for potential imperfections to address, rather than sitting back and enjoying the fruits of his or her labor -- the music itself! LOL

ADU
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ADU replied on Fri, Aug 4 2017 3:59 PM

Go for the Beogram record player, - just put on the record and push "play"Smile

Runeferg
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😊 20 years ago I have to admit I was listening more for imperfections in the setup I had back then, instead of the music itself - switching cables and "carrying on"... I'm older and wiser now (hopefully) and I'm now looking to create a secluded spot downstairs to enjoy the MUSIC (and a break from nagging wife and kids 😉). Presence and true-to-life sound is what I'm hoping for...

Steve at Sounds Heavenly
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ADU:

Go for the Beogram record player, - just put on the record and push "play"Smile

I agree with ADU - just a couple of additions to make:-

Buy a new MMC cartridge from SoundSmith and bin the 30+ year old B&O one that came with the Beogram.  Replace the drive belt (older radial Beograms) or have the turntable professionally serviced (newer tangential Beograms).

Kind regards, Steve.

Steve.

www.soundsheavenly.com

Sounds Heavenly are proud to sponsor BeoWorld!

Peter
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Peter replied on Sun, Aug 6 2017 8:32 AM

The Beocenter 7000 is a fantastic device - the turntable is a lower end B&O deck but in fact has great suspension and a good arm. The deck is very like a BG1902, the first B&O deck I bought , and it is a great record player. The amplifier is probably the best 40W amplifier B&O made and the cassette mechanism is based on that of the Beocord 8000, which was the basis of B&O's best cassette player. To get better performance from B&O will be tricky. I ran my 1902 with a MMC6000 and loved it. I agree with Steve - upgrade what you have. It may need some electronics work as some components will be aging.

Peter

Andrew
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Andrew replied on Tue, Aug 15 2017 5:06 PM

Jeffs reply hit home with me - audiophile record players are so much effort when at the end of the day you just want to listen to the music. Any decent B&O turntable allows you to do that. I have nearly been swayed back to non B&O record decks but luckily this site put me back on the right track! The other huge advantage with the B&O deck (for me anyway) is that when the record finishes the deck returns the arm and switches off - particularly useful if you are cooking or get distracted or something - or even fall asleep having had a few glasses of wine - not to mention some can be remote controlled.

Beold
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Beold replied on Tue, Aug 15 2017 9:30 PM

True - after i had my stylus fixed in Germany I just listen to a lot of records (and actually buy some new records as well now). Press play and enjoy.

Office: Beomaster 3000-2 with Beovox P45 (all in white)

Living room: Beomaster 7000 and Beogram 7000 with Beovox RL 7000 (all in white)

Kitchen: Beocenter 2300 with Beovox 4500 (not available in white :-(

Dave
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Dave replied on Wed, Aug 16 2017 6:52 PM

Having just purchased a Beocenter 9500 and Beolab 3000's, these posts make interesting reading, as eventually I wish to add a Beogram to that system.  Unfortunately the seller had just sold seperately a Beogram 9500. Now close to me there's a Beogram 8000 at what I consider a reasonable price. As no mention has been made in the above posts of either the Beogram 9500 or 8000, does this mean that they would not be a suitable choice for 'high-end' LP sound?  

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Wed, Aug 16 2017 7:00 PM

What is your definition of  "High end"?

Martin

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I would agree in some aspects a lot of people run an old cartridge with large flats and that is very bad, and new belts are good, but please do not through away the old cartridge they can be fully restored, for the SP series there are no modern replacements so this will encourage the limited supply to be thrown away also the B&O cartridges are in my opinion a little bit better with flip down guard on the MMC1-5 series & gold plated contact pins, also the MMC20/MMCx000 look much better and are made much better than the sound smith reproduction's with a proper metal case, imagine a Beogram 4000 with a sound Smith cartridge it just does not look right

 

don't throw your cartridge or stylus away it is B&O sacrilege 

 

I am not saying sound Smith ones are bad as they are not they are good it's great they are making reproductions but throwing away the original seems very wrong to me

Dave
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Dave replied on Wed, Aug 16 2017 7:49 PM

Dillen:

What is your definition of  "High end"?

Martin

Well, being a fan of 'vintage' gear, I currently have 2 other systems which I love. One being a Marantz 2245 and RegaPlanar 3 with Mission 780 speakers -  which I guess some audiophiles would immediately dismiss as being "High-end" - but fine for my listening pleasure. If my BC9500 system (which I must get re-capped) together with a suitable tangential arm Beogram result in as pleasing a sound, I'd be more than satisfied.    

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Wed, Aug 16 2017 7:58 PM

Based merely on the tracking angle error and the unavoidable distortion related to that way of reproducing the information stored on the record, any
and all radial decks should never be regarded as "audiophile" or "high end".
Period.
Playing back a record in any other angle than it was recorded should immediately turn on all the red lights. Particularly in "high end"-circles.

Listening pleasure - well, that's a completely different story.
Same goes for ease of use.

Beogram tangentials are up there - in all three aspects.
Choose a good needle. 

Martin

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