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Datalink and Multiroom

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StKong
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StKong Posted: Sat, Feb 11 2017 10:37 AM
Hello all Smile,

I was told a while ago that getting Datalink products, such as a Beosystem 7000, to work with Multiroom it's not an option due to the several steps of conversion from Datalink to Masterlink to Network Link.

Considering that old products can truly gain renewed life in a Multiroom setting, I was hoping that this is not entirely the case and that the ingenuity of the Beoworld forum might shed some light on the nuances.

Does anybody have experience with this?

1611 converter with NL/ML BLC - would it be possjble?
Guy
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Guy replied on Sat, Feb 11 2017 10:48 AM

Of course the 7000 is a Master Control Link system, hence you'll need to integrate three generations of equipment.  There's lots of experience MCL/ML users in the forum, but not many with all three (MCL/ML/NL), so yes it will be interesting to read.

Here's my old MCL/ML system - two houses ago: (click to make it bigger!)

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Sat, Feb 11 2017 2:57 PM

StKong:
1611 converter with NL/ML BLC - would it be possjble?
It does work!

Tried it with my BSys7000 and BSys4500 as sources in NL.

Setup: NL-system - NL/ML converter - T1611 - BSysXXXX

Note: I didn't test it with ML connected parallel to the T1611. The same for MCL connected to a BSys.

StKong
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StKong replied on Sat, Feb 11 2017 3:13 PM
Carolpa:

It does work!

Tried it with my BSys7000 and BSys4500 as sources in NL.

Setup: NL-system - NL/ML converter - T1611 - BSysXXXX

Note: I didn't test it with ML connected parallel to the T1611. The same for MCL connected to a BSys.

Carolpa, these are good news!

Would you care to elaborate a little more? Did it function like you wanted it to?

Could you join the 7000 from your other products and vice versa?

How about the Beomusic app? And what about Beoremote, any luck there?
Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Sat, Feb 11 2017 4:17 PM

NL.ML converter: A-Slave; therefor only one way tested. (In a short period I completely removed ML and switched to NL; I only have ML systems directly connected to NL/ML converters; no ML strains anymore)

sources: Radio, CD, ATape, Phono setup as sources in the NL/ML converter, They were accessible by remote and the Beomusic app. So I could f.e. start the BG7000 with the app and the remote. The functionality is what one expected; comparable to connecting a BS9000.

There was one issue with the connectivity of the T1611 and the NL/ML converter; minor issue though with power on/off of the complete system making the BSysXXXX inaccessible. Same type of issue if one connects the T1611 in a ML system. The T1611 has to be powered on as everything is connected  and up and running.

StKong
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StKong replied on Sat, Feb 11 2017 4:33 PM
Carolpa:

NL.ML converter: A-Slave; therefor only one way tested. (In a short period I completely removed ML and switched to NL; I only have ML systems directly connected to NL/ML converters; no ML strains anymore)

sources: Radio, CD, ATape, Phono setup as sources in the NL/ML converter, They were accessible by remote and the Beomusic app. So I could f.e. start the BG7000 with the app and the remote. The functionality is what one expected; comparable to connecting a BS9000.

There was one issue with the connectivity of the T1611 and the NL/ML converter; minor issue though with power on/off of the complete system making the BSysXXXX inaccessible. Same type of issue if one connects the T1611 in a ML system. The T1611 has to be powered on as everything is connected and up and running.

Carolpa, let me just express my gratitude once again; it is answers such as yours that encourage exploration!

What you write is uplifting, especially the notion of activatong the Beogram 7000 appeals to me. (Did you try to cue, etc.?)

I also think the way forward is to go with several NL/ML converters, rather than coupling an entire ML-system to NL via one converter. Luckily I don't have an existing system to consider. Everybody's mileage may vary.

The specificities of your last paragraph have left me somewhat puzzled, but I guess I need to read up more.

Just one question: do I read you correctly that it sometimes takes a manual power-off/power-on of the 1611 converter? Or of the entire system?
Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Sat, Feb 11 2017 4:41 PM

StKong:
Just one question: do I read you correctly that it sometimes takes a manual power-off/power-on of the 1611 converter? Or of the entire system
No, but if you have a power down for some reason, you have to know exactly the steps to follow otherwise the connection through the T1611 fails. You can't just simply power up.  

StKong
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StKong replied on Sat, Feb 11 2017 7:17 PM
Carolpa:

No, but if you have a power down for some reason, you have to know exactly the steps to follow otherwise the connection through the T1611 fails. You can't just simply power up.

Duly noted! Care to share that step?

I often turn off a lot of my electrical installations when travelling.
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Kromer replied on Sun, Feb 12 2017 1:01 AM

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

I have read in a beointegration idea catalogue where they suggested setting up the NL/ML converter as v. Master. Any thoughts on what difference that makes compared to setting it up as a. slave?

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Kromer replied on Sun, Feb 12 2017 1:01 AM

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

I have read in a beointegration idea catalogue where they suggested setting up the NL/ML converter as v. Master. Any thoughts on what difference that makes compared to setting it up as a. slave?

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Sun, Feb 12 2017 6:08 AM

Kromer:
Thanks for sharing your experiences!

I have read in a beointegration idea catalogue where they suggested setting up the NL/ML converter as v. Master. Any thoughts on what difference that makes compared to setting it up as a. slave?

No special reason for using A.Slave. The NL/ML converter was simply setup this way when I tried it. V.Master should just do also.

The NL/ML converter for the BS9000 and for the BS3000 are both setup as V.Master - in my setup they are doing their job !

NL/ML converter setup as V.Master: (in principle) one can share video NL sources to ML and audio ML sources to NL. Setup as A.Slave: one can only share audio ML sources to NL.

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Since the question is about Datalink, maybe this is not so much about, what you are able to hear from the MCL (via Converter) -> ML -> NL.

It is maybe more about, which functions (on the MCL-connected devices), you can control?

Can you e.g. skip forwards, pause etc on a Beogram (datalink connected to an old AudioMaster) from a NL/Multiroom device e.g. a BV11?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

StKong
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StKong replied on Sun, Feb 12 2017 9:02 AM
Millemissen:

Since the question is about Datalink, maybe this is not so much about, what you are able to hear from the MCL (via Converter) -> ML -> NL.

It is maybe more about, which functions (on the MCL-connected devices), you can control ?

Can you e.g. skip forwards, pause etc on a Beogram (datalink connected to an old AudioMaster) from a NL/Multiroom device e.g. a BV11?

This is exactly what interests me.
Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Sun, Feb 12 2017 10:18 AM

StKong:
Millemissen:
Since the question is about Datalink, maybe this is not so much about, what you are able to hear from the MCL (via Converter) -> ML -> NL. It is maybe more about, which functions (on the MCL-connected devices), you can control ?

Can you e.g. skip forwards, pause etc on a Beogram (datalink connected to an old AudioMaster) from a NL/Multiroom device e.g. a BV11?

This is exactly what interests me.

1. if you have 2 NL/ML converters with ML connected, both VMaster setup, you can start video sources on the ML side. In principle, you cannot start other ML audio sources connected on another NL/ML converter (maybe you can trick the system to link a video command to an audio source?). JOIN wouldn't work because it is another source within ML, so the BMXXXX will open the port to this source.

2. a MCL strain connected to a BSysXXXX (connected to a NL/ML converter) will work as a normal MCL system. So a Phono connected can be started within the MCL. I expect the video sources defined in the NL/ML converter can also be started as they are normal sources to the BMXXXX. Because of 1) you can't start audio sources of another NL/ML converter

3. what will happens if the NL/ML converters are set to AVMaster? The definition of limited sources should be very accurate! But still I expect conflicts. Maybe others have ideas, experiences with these settings.

 

 

 

 

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Sat, Feb 18 2017 7:06 PM

Picture of test: NL/ML converter ML connected to a T1611 (in front of the BG7000). T1611 connected to a BM3500.

NL/ML converter: V.Master, ML source available to NL - Phono

Essence set to Beolink connect to BM3500 (= the name of the NL/ML converter). Phono can be started/stopped; skip forward, backwards.

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@Carolpa

Great - thanks for testing.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Kromer
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Kromer replied on Sat, Feb 18 2017 7:20 PM

Thank you for that, this is very usefull information.

StKong
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StKong replied on Sun, Feb 19 2017 9:40 AM
Carolpa:

Picture of test: NL/ML converter ML connected to a T1611 (in front of the BG7000). T1611 connected to a BM3500.

NL/ML converter: V.Master, ML source available to NL - Phono

Essence set to Beolink connect to BM3500 (= the name of the NL/ML converter). Phono can be started/stopped; skip forward, backwards.

Carolpa -🍾 SurpriseπŸ‘‹πŸ’ͺ🏿⭐⭐⭐🍸🍸πŸ’₯

Thanks for taking the time and effort.

These are good news.

Did you experience any bumps long the way?
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Mogelmose replied on Mon, Feb 20 2017 1:21 PM

I often "daydream" about B&O releasing a new converter consisting of a few Datalink inputs and ML/NL Output (maybe with IR eye as an option)
It's only job should be to replace the Beomasters with something hidden.
Or even implement a datalink or two into an Essence or Moment

Like a White Beogram 7000 on a wooden shelf to wirelessly accompany a white A9 on wooden legs in the livingroom. 

StKong
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StKong replied on Mon, Feb 20 2017 8:30 PM
Mogelmose:

I often "daydream" about B&O releasing a new converter consisting of a few Datalink inputs and ML/NL Output (maybe with IR eye as an option) It's only job should be to replace the Beomasters with something hidden. Or even implement a datalink or two into an Essence or Moment

Like a White Beogram 7000 on a wooden shelf to wirelessly accompany a white A9 on wooden legs in the livingroom.

I agree. It woukd be rather swell. But at least some of what you outline appears possible with the right combination of equipment.
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Mogelmose replied on Thu, Feb 23 2017 1:36 PM

StKong:

I agree. It woukd be rather swell. But at least some of what you outline appears possible with the right combination of equipment.

With a Beomaster, a 1611 and a NL/ML converter it is possible :)

StKong
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StKong replied on Thu, Feb 23 2017 3:47 PM
Mogelmose:

With a Beomaster, a 1611 and a NL/ML converter it is possible :)

Indeed. I have decided to add a Beosystem 7000 to my budding collection for that exact purpose.

I think the chromed/polished fronts will be timelessly modern in the place I am living now.

Found four gold/yellow Beolab 4000 the other day. This is a beautiful beginning of what I hope to be a wonderful integration of the best old and new.

Looking forward.
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Kromer replied on Thu, Feb 23 2017 4:05 PM

Those gold and yellow bl 4000 are an acquired taste though, but with a black cover they really resemble the modern brass tone editions. And look a lot more timeless imo.

You will love the BS7000 :-)

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StKong replied on Fri, Feb 24 2017 6:41 AM
Kromer:

Those gold and yellow bl 4000 are an acquired taste though, but with a black cover they really resemble the modern brass tone editions. And look a lot more timeless imo.

You will love the BS7000 :-)

I know I will. I have loved it forever already ;-)

The ability to hook it all up via multiroom is just plain awesome and a huge added bonus. I can't wait.

As for the speakers:

The golden BL4000s were carefully selected to stand out. I think they work well today in that colour and it definitely sets them apart that they are not the usual black or silver.

And the finish is a very clear golden metal; like freshly polished brass it changes very much with the light. Together with chrome, wood and a combination of modern and antique furniture (and coloured walls) they are bound to play a part and add some drama! 🎺

I will get a pair of blue and green ones too. Yep.
Kromer
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Kromer replied on Sun, Feb 26 2017 8:25 PM

StKong:

 

As for the speakers:

 

The golden BL4000s were carefully selected to stand out. I think they work well today in that colour and it definitely sets them apart that they are not the usual black or silver.

 

And the finish is a very clear golden metal; like freshly polished brass it changes very much with the light. Together with chrome, wood and a combination of modern and antique furniture (and coloured walls) they are bound to play a part and add some drama! 🎺

 

I will get a pair of blue and green ones too. Yep.

I'm sure you're right that they'll work in the right setting, but looking at them by themselves... 

Not blue or green but colourfull Wink http://www.lauritz.com/da/auktion/bang-olufsen-par-beolab-4000-hoejttalere-2/i4570758/

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Kromer replied on Sun, Feb 26 2017 9:07 PM

Anyway, back on topic.

I stopped by my dealer on friday an picked up an ml/ml converter and set to work with my BS6500. My dealer gave this. Beonuts, is he trying to tell me something?

And in connecting everything. I had to ad a wifi extender with an ethernet port to get the BLC on network link. It is not difficult to get everything connected and started up. One thing though, in my setup it works better if the 1611 (sw 1.3) is powered on at the same time as everything else.

This isn't a plug and play product as I'm used too and I'm beginning to understand why my dealer wasn't recommending this setup. Getting it up and running wasn't difficult, mine is set to v. master, Product controlled by apps as BLC with speakers, the ML sources renamed and everythings is available on multiroom Cool The finetuning and deciding what I prefer, is a different matter though and for my part involves a lot of trial and error which is going to go on for a while.

I have decide (as I knew before I started) that there is no perfect solution. Here are some of my thoughts and findings.

-  If I want It completely synched multiroom and acces to NL sources locally the speakers has to be connected to the BLC, which means sound adjustment can't be made from MCP or BL1000. I haven't figured out how to get sound from BLC to BS6500. Adding some sort of powerlink switch seems to make operation even more complicated.

- When playing any source from BS6500 on multiroom and then changing the source locally on BS6500 multiroom follows and displays automatically. 

- App control of BS6500 gives you all the basics and works effortlessly. It's a fantastic feeling to operate a system from the late 80's on the same app that you use for brand new stuff.

- I didn't want the big IR eye so I got a 3rd party one from av-cables.dk and I haven't made it work with the beo4 yet, if at all possible.

- I have tried, under sources visible on ml, to assign tv to tuneIn from an essence. But haven't been able to use it.

- I will keep trying different solutions, but perhaps it's best suited for use in secondary rooms. I would love to keep my 6500 as my main system though.

 

StKong
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StKong replied on Sun, Feb 26 2017 10:12 PM
Kromer:

- I will keep trying different solutions, but perhaps it's best suited for use in secondary rooms. I would love to keep my 6500 as my main system though.

Thank you for an extensive write-up.

However, I am not sure what brings you to the conclusion that the system is perhaps better suited for a secondary room?
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Kromer replied on Sun, Feb 26 2017 11:20 PM

As mentioned it's just a thought. For main room I Think simple operation is key and I haven' acheived that yet. Too early for conclusions :-)

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BeoMegaMan replied on Sun, Feb 26 2017 11:26 PM
Keep going with the integration of your old and new B&O. At last years CEDIA conference we demonstrated integration of a BeoMaster/BeoGram/ Beosound with a fully NL system driven by Amazon Alexa. Smile

Ah, you know... A little B&O here, a little there 

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StKong replied on Mon, Feb 27 2017 6:45 AM
Yes, Kromer, I agree that simplicity is the most important. A process involving several (unnecessary) steps is not very B&O-like, and missing clarity and ease of operation defeats the purpose.

Keep experimenting!⭐⭐⭐

BeoMegaMan:

Keep going with the integration of your old and new B&O. At last years CEDIA conference we demonstrated integration of a BeoMaster/BeoGram/ Beosound with a fully NL system driven by Amazon Alexa. Ah, you know... A little B&O here, a little there

Can this be read about somewhere?

Smile
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Kromer replied on Sat, Mar 25 2017 10:38 PM

Just a little update, as I've been experimenting a bit and learned a lot. And spend too much time, sometimes enjoying it and sometimes hating it Wink Can't say that I completely understand it, but then again I'm more of an enthusiast than an expert...

I'm now almost satisfied with the setup. 

The BLC is placed hidden in the cabinet under the BS6500, but i could be placed in a technical room just as well. It is set to Vmaster, product controlled by apps BLC w. speakers. ML sources named appropriately, my main nl source, tunein from an essence, is visible to ml as TV and mapped to IR as such.

I've left the speakers with the BS 6500 to keep tone control and use of mcp. It is set to opt. 2. The PL from BLC goes to tape2 of BS6500 so I can "join" without interfering with what is being played on the essence.

 

To sum it up.

On the plus side:

- I've kept full functionality of BS6500, plus added Tunein, with one touch of the TV button + channel change with any remote.

-Basic control of BS6500 through app, and of course NL distribution of the old formats.

-Echo free NL sources.

Minusses:

-echo when playing local sources on BS6500. I suppose that could be solved with a PL Switch.

-Aux on BS6500 has to be "activated" with TV command. Just using AUX button doesn't work. As TV starts Tunein on BS Essence this is not always convenient.

-I have to get a newer BL2000 for the kitchen as the "tape version" can only join not activate TV.

I'm sure more qualified people can work out a "cleaner" setup, but I'm quite happy with it.

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Carolpa replied on Sun, Mar 26 2017 5:25 AM

Kromer:
The PL from BLC goes to tape2 of BS6500 
On your picture it shows you have connected the next chain:

BS6500 - datalink (no PL because the speakers are connected to the BS6500) - T1611 -masterlink - NL/ML converter: CORRECT assumption?

If correct why the connection: BLC -PL - BS6500?

What do you mean with

Kromer:
so I can "join" without interfering with what is being played on the essence.
?

in NL it is always possible to join from different sources without interfering with the other sources

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Kromer replied on Sun, Mar 26 2017 8:20 AM

Carolpa:

Kromer:
The PL from BLC goes to tape2 of BS6500 
On your picture it shows you have connected the next chain:

BS6500 - datalink (no PL because the speakers are connected to the BS6500) - T1611 -masterlink - NL/ML converter: CORRECT assumption?

If correct why the connection: BLC -PL - BS6500?

That is correct. It is because of what I mention about AUX on BM6500. I only get sound through AUX/datalink if it is activated with TV command from BL1000. TV command, however, activates TuneIn and thereby stops Airplay or whatever is being played.

If AUX has been activated I can change the NL source on BLC and still get sound through AUX/datalink.

As I said, I'm sure someone can come up with a better solution, but I haven't been able to. For our current use this setup is very simple in daily operation.

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Tassos replied on Sun, Mar 26 2017 10:04 AM

Hello to everyone,

I am really interested in this topic since I have recently restored a beomaster 5000 along with the rest of the pizza boxes and I would love to distribute the sound around my house. I have some spare mcl/ml converters and a.aux converters. Getting an ml/nl converter would it make it work?

I am asking simply because the 5000 series is older than the ones you mentioned above.

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Tassos replied on Sun, Mar 26 2017 10:54 AM

Small update on my post:

I have already checked in the beotech section and beomaster 5000 ia a datalink compatible product, but does it work in real life?

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Carolpa replied on Sun, Mar 26 2017 11:45 AM

Kromer:
TV command, however, activates TuneIn and thereby stops Airplay or whatever is being played.
this is your own setting in the BLC; you programmed the TV command to activate TuneIn on the Essence.

If the Essence is used for Airplay something, the same Essence can't be used at the same time as TuneIn source for your BS6500 (also not possible when one uses only NL products).

Could you explain your setup more specific?  To my opinion the BLC - PL - BS6500 is strange and should be unnecessary.

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Kromer replied on Sun, Mar 26 2017 6:12 PM

Carolpa:

this is your own setting in the BLC; you programmed the TV command to activate TuneIn on the Essence.

If the Essence is used for Airplay something, the same Essence can't be used at the same time as TuneIn source for your BS6500 (also not possible when one uses only NL products).

Could you explain your setup more specific?  To my opinion the BLC - PL - BS6500 is strange and should be unnecessary.

I know that it is because of my own settings but I haven't manager to start TuneIn with other commands from BL1000 and that is a main feature for me.

And I agree it seems unnecessary. Can you explain the difference between selecting AUX Line in with AUX command and TV command?

I can take a screenshot of the setup pages if you like. I'm more that willing to listen to suggestions :-)

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Kromer replied on Sun, Mar 26 2017 6:12 PM

Carolpa:

this is your own setting in the BLC; you programmed the TV command to activate TuneIn on the Essence.

If the Essence is used for Airplay something, the same Essence can't be used at the same time as TuneIn source for your BS6500 (also not possible when one uses only NL products).

Could you explain your setup more specific?  To my opinion the BLC - PL - BS6500 is strange and should be unnecessary.

I know that it is because of my own settings but I haven't manager to start TuneIn with other commands from BL1000 and that is a main feature for me.

And I agree it seems unnecessary. Can you explain the difference between selecting AUX Line in with AUX command and TV command?

I can take a screenshot of the setup pages if you like. I'm more that willing to listen to suggestions :-)

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Soren replied on Sun, Mar 26 2017 9:46 PM

Beomaster 6500 understand the following Video commands: TV - SAT(DTV) - V.TAPE(V.MEM) - CDV(DVD) - V.TAPE2(DVD2) it should be possible to set the BLC up so you can use one of these commands for Tunein instead. 

I am using SAT(DTV) for nettadio on my BM7000

Søren

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Kromer:

I can take a screenshot of the setup pages if you like. 

I am sure that would be helpfull!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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