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Restore B&O sign

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Leif
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Leif posted on Fri, Feb 3 2017 7:19 PM | Locked

Anyone who can give me an idea about how to restore the B&O sign on Beovox 2500 Cube after repainting?

Are the 6 ohm units still to get hands on?

/Leif

 

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Dillen
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Dillen replied on Fri, Feb 3 2017 10:47 PM | Locked

The short answer is - you don't.
The B&O logo is a registrered trademark and only B&O is allowed to use it.
Strictly speaking, putting B&Os logo on something you built and/or painted yourself could lead
other people to believe that B&O endorsed the thing and it went through their quality control.

At least one of our members were confronted by B&O juridical department because of something similar.

What you do at your own kitchentable we cannot see, but I would be extremely careful when it
comes to dealing with designer-brands registrered trademark logos. They don't take misuse of
their logo lightly.
That's about as far as I can help you.

The only source for correct drivers are donor speakers, I'm afraid.

Martin

Peter
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Peter replied on Fri, Feb 3 2017 11:00 PM | Locked

And don't think of using white transfer paper with the inverse blacked out. Or putting matte lacquer over it.

Peter

Dennis
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Dennis replied on Sat, Feb 4 2017 9:58 AM | Locked

Dillen:
The short answer is - you don't.
The B&O logo is a registrered trademark and only B&O is allowed to use it.
Strictly speaking, putting B&Os logo on something you built and/or painted yourself could lead
other people to believe that B&O endorsed the thing and it went through their quality control.

At least one of our members were confronted by B&O juridical department because of something similar.

What you do at your own kitchentable we cannot see, but I would be extremely careful when it
comes to dealing with designer-brands registrered trademark logos. They don't take misuse of
their logo lightly.

I see your point, but that would mean millions of car owners are in big trouble. Following your logic, car owners aren't allowed to put emblems back on their cars if they've had it or even just a single panel resprayed, because that could lead other people to think, that it had been through the respective manufactures quality control. 

To designate putting a logo that was originally there back after a respray as misuse; I don't think that's gonna hold up in court following the above.

Guess Frede must be in trouble then as well, when he is restoring BeoMaster 5000/ BeoLab 5000 as both these have a similar logo on the front. I can see the problem with the black edition he made, as B&O never made such a thing, but otherwise it is just a matter of returning it back to it's original condition as close a possible. 

/Dennis

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sat, Feb 4 2017 12:11 PM | Locked

Dennis, did you read the copyright and trademark regulations?
Are you suggesting we just recommend ignoring them? Telling members of this B&O enthusiat forum, that it'll be alright
to put B&Os logo on whatever, "just try to make it as nice as you can"?

Peter, I seem to remember you asked B&O about excatly this a couple of years ago, could you please repeat their answer?

With regards to Frede - he is actually an ex-B&O employee and let me just say, that he knows how to steer his ship.

Martin

Dennis
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Dennis replied on Sat, Feb 4 2017 2:07 PM | Locked

Only partly, but if you have, I would be very glad if you would enlighten me. I honestly don't have a lot of knowledge in this field, but it sounds like you have, and I could imagine you have studied the law in connection with you having reproductions of various B&O parts made. 

There has never been talk of putting B&O's logo on 'whatever'. You make it sound like the OP was asking how to put a B&O logo on some plywood coffee table he hammered together in his backyard, so he could ask a premium price for it. He asked how to restore the B&O logo on an original B&O product, that has been out of production for more than 45 years. I see your point about reproducing the B&O logo, and haven't studied the law, but I don't buy your whole premise. 

Is it illegal as per the copyright and trademark regulations for me to put the pin with the Bang & Olufsen logo back on the fret of my BeoVox S22 after I have replaced the old fabric with some new, almost identical, black fabric? And can I get sued if I sell the speakers on and make some money on them? Car restorers would never get any work done if this was the case, as they would be spending all of their time in court if it was illegal.

I could imagine, that there is a clause about non-commercial and private use and work being carried out with respect for the original work. 

Frede being an ex-B&O employee alone surely doesn't make him allowed to use the  B&O logo, so that's irrelevant. Guess he must have a contract with B&O then.  

To answer Leif:

Don't know if it's legal to cut out a small piece of tape and put over the logo while you respray them, but could be an option. At least you are not reproducing the B&O logo with that method. Be careful, that the tape doesn't lift the logo though! I have no experience with BV2500, so I don't know how durable it is. Otherwise you could try and contact Frede and ask him, how he deals with it. 

/Dennis

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Sat, Feb 4 2017 2:32 PM | Locked

" I could imagine you have studied the law in connection with you having reproductions of various B&O parts made"
- I certainly have, but I am not claiming any of my parts are from B&O and I am not using their
logo, so that's irrelevant.

"B&O logo on some plywood coffee table he hammered together in his backyard, so he could ask a premium price for it."
- Has also been tried. There were a couple of them on Ebay, they made SONY, Versace and Ferrari ones too.
Gone now, all of it. Wonder why.

Nobody can stop you from cutting a B&O logo from one of their catalogues or posters or whatever, and stick
it onto some piece of furniture in your home. Just don't claim that the piece is a B&O and don't advertize it as such (unless it is).
Whether the limit goes at renewing speaker cloth and putting back a logo badge or not, I cannot say. That'll be for the judge to
decide in the given case, but perhaps that's a poor example since those badges are made removable and not permanently painted on.
I don't work in a juridical department, so I cannot say.
I am sure B&O wouldn't like to see their logo on a pair of Beolab 2500 cubes, one in delicate pink and the other
chess-squared. Yes, I have seen that too, both were aerosol jobs and not particularly well done to say the least.

Do what you feel is right. It's your things (and not my problem anyways). And go ahead and recommend any solution you like, just
don't expect to see an enthusiast forum moderator recommending anything that could be in conflict with
trademark or copyright regulations.

Martin

Peter
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Peter replied on Sat, Feb 4 2017 8:46 PM | Locked

Marti is completely correct. What I would say is that if you restore a piece of B&O like a pair of cube speakers and reproduce the logo and then sell them, you may well be in trouble. I suspect if you do it purely for your own use/amusement, B&O will neither know or care.

Peter

Mark
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Mark replied on Mon, Feb 6 2017 6:58 PM | Locked
this is an interesting and in-depth topic and I understand both perspectives.

I have restored cars, motorcycles and built models and freely renovated badges, motifs and name plates to make the product correct and complete.

I have also witnessed and assisted manufactures in protecting their name, image and even in one instance its colour scheme and understand how the corporate machine works.

Company logo's, trademarks and intellectual property are important and we all know famous brands are built with many years of hard work and we should respect this, luxury brands have more to loose and will rightfully protect their image harder.

In a perfect world I would like to see Bang & Olufsen have its own official restoration department but understand this will probably never happen. If I'm ever in doubt of things I always contact the manufacturer direct, the way I look at it is they are staffed with humans who normally are fanatical and willing to advise.

Personally I would not reproduce their name badge, the design lines, sound and quality, the quality of restoration and provenance should speak for itself..

we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.

vikinger
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vikinger replied on Mon, Feb 6 2017 10:57 PM | Locked

If the logos still exist on your cubes then carefully mask them when doing your paint restoration. If you can't mask them then you are faced with getting a photographic transfer that is an exact copy of the original.

I don't think there is any suggestion that the OP is trying to pass-off a non-B&O product as B&O, so I really can't follow some of the illogical logic in this thread.

Graham

vikinger
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vikinger replied on Mon, Feb 6 2017 11:36 PM | Locked

In fact the logic expressed above would suggest that as soon as Martin substitutes a capacitor in a B&O repair the product is no longer genuine B&O as manufactured .......... so where does that lead us?

Graham

BenSA
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BenSA replied on Tue, Feb 7 2017 8:16 AM | Locked

I suspect that Beoworld has to say that they do not condone the reproduction of the logo even if its for restoring purposes otherwise they would most probably get into trouble with B&O and that is totally understandable. 

Personally I don't think there is a problem with trying to restore a logo on a genuine article during restoration. Of course putting the logo on anything not designed by B&O is completely wrong. 

Its probably safer to ban any use or restoration of the logo as it then cuts out any possible misuse. I think most companies would feel the same, their logo is of the utmost importance to a company.  

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Tue, Feb 7 2017 11:12 AM | Locked

vikinger:

In fact the logic expressed above would suggest that as soon as Martin substitutes a capacitor in a B&O repair the product is no longer genuine B&O as manufactured .......... so where does that lead us?

Graham



I don't mess with B&Os logo, so your comment is completely irrelevant.

Martin

vikinger
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vikinger replied on Tue, Feb 7 2017 12:16 PM | Locked

This page on Frede's restoration site refers to new anodised panels and the restoration of printing.

The Beovox 2500 cube link says he sands and repaints them, so he must be re-creating the logos.

Maybe he has a special licence from B&O.

http://www.beolab.dk/reno-uk/reno.html

Maybe we need a separate thread on how to recreate detailed printing when restoring units instead of getting too wound up about manufacturers badges and copyright  on resprayed cars or restored hi-fi. 

Graham

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Tue, Feb 7 2017 12:32 PM | Locked

Maybe he has. Wink

- And maybe we do.

I believe the OP has been answered.
I will close this thread.

Martin

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