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Beolab flickering lights and "thump"

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Piaf
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Piaf posted on Tue, Jan 10 2017 3:02 AM

When my newest addition to my B&O family arrived [Beolab 5000], I noticed that the two lamps flickered with the music when the volume was at 4-5 and I asked Soren about this.

Soren said I should post this as a question of the forum as he didn't know why this was happening, as it didn't happen when he tested the Beolab.

Soren felt "something was drawing too much power," so what do you guys think?

Also when the power button is depressed there is a rather loud THUMP in the speakers. It seems to me that I read on another thread that the Beomaster 4400 also did this, but it was of no concern.

Frankly, I was kind of pleased that my own 4400 didn't exhibit this particular trait.

Anyway, I am most interested in the flickering lights to see if it means anything needs attention. I really don't want to do anything that might damage this wonderful amp.

Jeff

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Piaf
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Answered (Verified) Piaf replied on Wed, Jan 11 2017 7:37 PM
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Hi Soren,

All help and advice is appreciated and useful. This is Canada, boringly dependable and that would most definitely include electric service.

I like "dimmed" lights so I have dimmer virtually all over the house: bathrooms, hallways, living room, media room..... you get the idea. And dimmers are SUPER sensitive to drops in voltage, if set low enough, they stay off until turned back on again, so I am very certain that voltage (either low or inconsistent) is not the problem.

I played the Beolab all day yesterday and today as well. It is playing right now as I type. It plays BEAUTIFULLY which is a tribute to your dedicated workmanship. Ditto the Beomaster 5000, which is a total delight.

If, as you said, you played the Beolab at 8 and the lamps didn't flicker, then clearly something happened in transit. Right now anything above 4 causes the red ON lamp as well as the green STEREO lamp to flicker.

At 5 the flicker becomes more pronounced. At 6 the lamps actually go out completely (briefly). As you said you took the Beolab to 8 to tired but at 6.5 it actually hurt my ears and you know that I LOVE LOUD music.Honest Soren, I don't know how you could have listened to this Beolab at 8.

As the Beolab has replaced my ailing Beomaster 4400, it is now a part of my daily extensive exercise program, so I get a lot of up close time where I can watch the Beolab and see all the flickering.

In truth..... and you know me, I will be honest, I find the flickering annoying, it grabs attention where it shouldn't, BUT it is not something I can't live with. Live comes with compromise and I really LIKE this Beolab! Smile

Jeff

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Piaf
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Answered (Verified) Piaf replied on Wed, Jan 18 2017 5:39 PM
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I am now in the process of gathering information from the cognoscenti here on BeoWorld and have a pretty fair idea of source of the power supply issue with my new Beolab.

While sorting through this the thought that occurs is the flickering lamps which are the result of a voltage drop can reasonably be used as a temporary over-load protector, that is to say, if the lights are steady there should be sufficient voltage for the amplifier itself to avoid any problem while maintaining sound quality.

The only remaining question is, is it to be expected (acceptable) for the left side of the Beolab to get actually quite hot? I have been keeping close check on the heatsinks which seldom get more than warm. I touched the left side yesterday by accident and was relatively surprised by how hot it was. Of course hot is a broad term, but more than body temperature, but not too hot to touch.

If the left side being rather toasty is of no concern I would like to spend a good bit of time letting this Beolab settle-in...... and enjoy the music while it is doing it.

If the left side temperature IS a problem, I sure hope someone will let me know.

Thanks guys.

Jeff

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Piaf
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Piaf replied on Thu, Jan 19 2017 1:29 AM

chartz:
Ok Jeff, my mistake, I thought you were talking about the heatsinks. We techs always check temperature where the power transistors are mounted.

That the left cheek should be quite hot is absolutely normal and fine!

Sorry about the confusion. And back to stage one.

Hi Jacques,

Please, no problem, I am just a bit relieved.

JUST to be absolutely clear my "surprise was the black metal left side of the Beolab was 37 degrees. If I have the order right, the left side heated up first, then a half an hour later I noticed that the heatsinks were about the same temperature (left & middle) cooler on the right. About that time I noticed that the right side which had been much cooler was close to the same temperature. Is this still OK?

I was VERY concerned when Soren said I was doing something that would have his "100 hours of work up in smoke." That really upset me, but at the same time I understood after putting so much work into a project he wouldn't want someone to carelessly damage all that work.(And I SURE didn't want that someone to be me.)

As a result, I haven't used the Beolab since.

What surprised me was with the voltage setting changed the lamp flickering stopped and I thought I had the problem addressed, at least in the short run. Plus the sound quality is SO good, it is my view that an over-stressed amp will deliver distorted sound, and that was anything but the case here.

When I first noticed the "hot" left panel I wasn't all that worried, but yet concerned enough to mention it and the reaction took me by surprise. I know that the Beolab runs hotter than my Beomaster 2400.2 and Beomaster 4500, but similar to the Beomaster 4500 which is powering S45 speakers, which should, in theory, be a good match.

So in summery I would really appreciate you and Soren confirming that after an hour at volume level 5.5; 37 degrees pretty much all over is OK.

Thanks! Smile

Jeff

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Piaf
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Piaf replied on Thu, Jan 19 2017 1:43 AM

Søren Mexico:
With the temps/ you mention go on playing, no problem.

Soren,

I hope you realize that I would never, but never do anything knowingly that would damage all your fine work, but the thought that maybe I was over taxing the amp genuinely frightened me.

I believe that the Beolab is still "settling in" and as such I have been running it all day, every day (volume level 1) when I am not in the room enjoying it. I thought I was doing the right thing by the amp so the thought that I was somehow misguided and actually damaging it.... well I felt terrible.

So just to make double sure, as I asked Jacques, do you agree that 37 degrees, pretty much everywhere is OK after an hour at volume level 5.5?  (except the front panel which is cool)

Oh, and before you ask what is the temperature at level 1, honestly I never thought to check, but I can.

Jeff

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Søren Mexico
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Thats OK Jeff, you scared the shite out of me when you said it got hot and only left side, just go on playing and lets see what happens

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Thu, Jan 19 2017 3:29 AM

Søren Mexico:
Thats OK Jeff, you scared the shite out of me when you said it got hot and only left side, just go on playing and lets see what happens

Good God Soren that was certainly NOT my intention! Maybe I need to work on my writing skills a bit more.

I was MUCH more concerned with the flickering lamps, the hot side panel was more a curiosity that I wanted to explore. With the lamps no longer flickering I thought I was on the right path. And apparently I was. 

There is other "stuff" too trivial to mention, but all "improving" and that what the "we'll see how things develop" comment referred to.

The Beolab is doing beautifully and the sound quality is a tribute to YOU.

Any possible "issues" yet to be resolved WILL be, but at least I need not be concerned with using the Beolab.

Jeff

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Søren Mexico
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Left side panel (part of the chassis) has 4 big resistors mounted to it, so that this part gets more hot than the cooling ribs or the top cover is natural

Pic showing the resistors between the small PCB and the wall

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

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Piaf replied on Thu, Jan 19 2017 6:55 AM

Muchas gracias Soren, que definitivamente explica el panel izquierdo caliente.

Jeff

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Piaf
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Piaf replied on Thu, Jan 19 2017 8:54 PM

Hey Soren,

In honour of you and the country where the Beolab was restored I am playing Sandro: Tu me enloqueces.Sandro, although from Argentina was popular in Mexico in the mid-seventies.

While I am thoroughly enjoying this period album, somehow listening to it calls for a tequila sunrise. Drinks (Oh boy, now that takes me back....)

Anyway, just enjoying my Beolab via Sandro and thinking about the man who made it possible, literally.

Jeff

 

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Søren Mexico
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 Was in the kitchen preparing a French union soup, now listening to Roxettes, drink is always cuba, I lift my glass in north westerly direction and Salud you, be careful with the Tequila, I had a long night in Copenhagen some 40 years ago with a girl my age including 2 bottles of the kind

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Piaf replied on Fri, Jan 20 2017 12:48 AM

Søren Mexico:
be careful with the Tequila, I had a long night in Copenhagen some 40 years ago with a girl my age including 2 bottles of the kind

Thanks Soren for the toast which is much appreciated. Big Smile

The thought for the Tequila was inspired solely by Sandro and his music.

I had a "similar" experience with Tequila 30 years ago. I had a friend who was literally "God's gift to women" and he asked me to go bar hopping with him. When a guy like Kent walked into a bar all the ladies eyes would be fixed on him..... like I wasn't even there.

Well at "fate" would have it, that was MY night, I was the one getting all the attention with one beautiful women after another asking me to dance and who am I to say no?

In-between dances Kent was buying me JUMBO Margaritas. I would stop for a moment, gulp down the Margarita and back on the dance floor. It was a blast! 

I remembered drinking 11 Margaritas but as we left the bar, Kent said "Try 13."

Made it home safe and sound but after that, details omitted. All I can say is I couldn't even LOOK at a bottle of Tequila for about 5 years.

OMG

Jeff

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Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sat, Jan 21 2017 7:09 PM

Hi Guys,

This WAS going to be my definitive temperature report as I have a battery for the thermometer, and while I have moderate confidence the the first few readings, after that it proved a bit too much for the medical thermometer.

None the less, left side 37.2C; Right side 36.1C; Left heatsink 42.6C, Middle heatsink 40.2C; right heatsink 37.8C.

Less scientific but probably just as useful the left side metal panel is slightly warmer than the right metal panel. The heatsinks get progressively warmer going from left to right.

All the above is after an hours play at 5.5 on the volume slider.

I am not an expert, like the rest of you guys, but I'd say it all looks pretty normal to me. Yes - thumbs up

Jeff

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Søren Mexico
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I dont see any problems there

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sat, Jan 21 2017 8:20 PM

Søren Mexico:
I dont see any problems there

Folks, I think that makes it official. Big Smile

Jeff

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Piaf
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Piaf replied on Tue, Jan 31 2017 3:09 AM

As Jacques and Soren know, electronics are not "my area of expertise" however cosmetics are.

With the Beolab and Beomaster 5000 settling in nicely to their new home I decided to do something about the "usual and to be expected" scratches on the black panel sides.

In a perfect world (my world is anything but perfect) I would have removed the panels, sanded them down and resprayed. However, that is a lot or work, so using a very fine artist's brush I filled in the scratches with semi-gloss black paint which was an improvement, but not satisfactory. Not after all the hard work Soren did.

Next step wet-sanding which flattens the surface while adding fewer scratches. Now things were looking better, so I used my favourite Cleaner/Polish wax and success, a nice even surface.

Today in full sunlight the results were satisfying. The panel surfaces may be a bit more "shiny" then factory and I can "dull" them down with very fine sandpaper, but right now I am in no hurry to lose the look of the restored finish, which (in my opinion) goes very well with Soren's work on the veneers. Smile

Jeff

 

 

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