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On The Demise Of Audio Masters

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Jeff
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Jeff posted on Thu, Apr 21 2016 11:31 PM

I know many on this site regret that B&O is no longer making products such as the BS9000, Overture, Beocenter 9500, etc. And we've discussed the fact that in today's world such devices are of distinctly limited appeal and usefulness to most people, with the streaming and PC/NAS world upon us. I recently received an email calling my attention to the following speakers from Klipsch, a storied American brand dating back to the post WWII era when Paul Klipsch first marketed his corner horns:

http://www.klipsch.com/products/r-15pm-powered-monitors

Note that these even have an RIAA phono preamp in them so if you want to use analog LP you don't need a receiver. Seems that finally some company other than B&O is embracing active loudspeakers, also WISA for their other products. I mention Klipsch in a B&O forum as this speaker is moving in the same direction of letting people listen to music without the need for an audio master type device, or receiver, similar to what B&O does, perhaps even more flexibly. 

This is the future I believe, those of us who still like audio masters and receivers are dinosaurs I'm afraid. I haven't heard these, but I expect they sound pretty good based on previous experience with Klipsch, though I tend to find them voiced a tad bright for my tastes, I much prefer B&Os voicings.

I could see a similar implementation using an Essence or Playmaker with a phono preamp connected to the aux input. More expensive, but much more stylish and higher performance. But, the point being B&O isn't alone in trying to figure out how to move forward in today's changing entertainment market.

Jeff

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Doonesbury
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This is an intriguing speaker in some ways.  I read that Klipsch was now making active speakers so I was eager to read more about them.

However,  the specification sheet said nothing about active crossovers and separate amplifiers for each driver.  I get the impression that the manufacturer simply put an integrated amplifier in a speaker cabinet.

Needless to say, B & O does active speakers better!

D

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Apr 22 2016 2:17 AM

I think you're right, which means they won't have the full benefit of a true active design, but still interesting. 

Jeff

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Millemissen
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Actually there are a lot (socalled) active speakers on the market today - it is a booming market, indeed!

There are several different combinations - all of them offering simplicity (which is wanted today).

But like the mentioned Klipsch a lot of these are a combination of a speaker with a built-in amp (with one or more - wireless or wired - connections) and a passive  speaker....

....which is far from the concept of the BeoLabs of today.

Then again - we must also see the (BL) active speakers concept as a part of the B&O infrastructure.

For years it was a distribution of (different oldschool) sources from a master unit to the peripherial 'slaves'/linkrooms.

With the new NL concept it is units with their own sources (mainly netbased) built-in, that can be used either locally or on the network.

There is a long way from a simple active speaker (like the Klipsch) to the active concept of B&O.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

seethroughyou
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I had a home audition of these speakers from PSI, a popular studio monitor company, last year and they were by far the most detailed speakers I had ever heard and was deeply impressed. They are fully active and the amp and drive units communicate with each other but the wife said no to big purple boxes and now i'm holding out for a smaller and more affordable version of the Beolab 90 which also has room correction, beaming etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQZmLDy5oY8

I agree the days of an audiomaster are coming to an end but there is something about the pattern play of the Moment that is very attractive and stops me from fiddling with an ipad and changing tracks every 5 minutes in an ADHD fashion. I just wish the Moment wasn't as laggy and the software was better - the usual B&O complaints.

 

 

.

 

 

Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.

Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.

.

linder
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linder replied on Fri, Apr 22 2016 2:33 PM

Millemissen:

Actually there are a lot (socalled) active speakers on the market today - it is a booming market, indeed!

There are several different combinations - all of them offering simplicity (which is wanted today).

But like the mentioned Klipsch a lot of these are a combination of a speaker with a built-in amp (with one or more - wireless or wired - connections) and a passive  speaker....

....which is far from the concept of the BeoLabs of today.

Then again - we must also see the (BL) active speakers concept as a part of the B&O infrastructure.

For years it was a distribution of (different oldschool) sources from a master unit to the peripherial 'slaves'/linkrooms.

With the new NL concept it is units with their own sources (mainly netbased) built-in, that can be used either locally or on the network.

There is a long way from a simple active speaker (like the Klipsch) to the active concept of B&O.

MM

There is a UK company, ATC Loudspeakers, that has been manufacturing active loudspeakers for many years.  They are a more traditional design but are highly regarded.  This is an example along with a review.

http://www.whathifi.com/news/ces-2015-atc-to-introduce-scm40a-active-loudspeaker

http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/hifi-entry-series/scm40a/

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Apr 22 2016 3:58 PM

What got me most about the Klipsch speakers was the design that eliminated the need for any central audio master, it seems to be a good example of how things are changing. I think the Moment has great potential, marred by the usual B&O software issues sadly. The concept though is thoroughly modern and forward thinking.

My brother-in-law is a musician who also has a very good studio in his basement that he not only uses for his own work but rents time out to other musicians with him acting as studio engineer. He manages to make a fair amount of coin with both his performances and his studio work. He has a pair of 3 way, active studio monitors that I can't recall the maker, German I think. I remember being very impressed with the sound of them listening to them last time I was over there. I think they retailed for almost 5000 dollars a pair or such, but the sound was incredibly good and the bass extension from such a small speaker was impressive. I remember thinking that if I wasn't into B&O these would be an excellent speaker for any listening room.

Jeff

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tournedos
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Jeff:

He has a pair of 3 way, active studio monitors that I can't recall the maker, German I think. I remember being very impressed with the sound of them listening to them last time I was over there. I think they retailed for almost 5000 dollars a pair or such, but the sound was incredibly good and the bass extension from such a small speaker was impressive. I remember thinking that if I wasn't into B&O these would be an excellent speaker for any listening room.

Isn't the canonical choice for that purpose Genelec? (which is Finnish... Smile ) They have been making active speakers since 1978.

They have a good variety from small near-field monitors (very popular computer speakers among nerds over here) through home cinema speakers to the most demanding studio monitors. And although I personally don't like their appearance that much, they actually are designed, by Harri Koskinen who probably is internationally best known for his Block lamp by Design House Stockholm.

--mika

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Apr 23 2016 12:23 AM

These aren't Genelecs I think, though I've seen Genelecs in many studios, they have a well earned reputation as the go to company for such things.

Jeff

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Chris Townsend
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What are the best options for streaming Tidal at 1411Mbps? I'd love a touch screen Beosound 5, but they don't make them and it doesn't do Tidal anyway. The Moment just doesn't interest me.

I currently send Tidal via AirPlay. Mini IPad 4 to Apple TV 4 into a 7-55 feeding a pair of 9's. Soon to be 5's if I can. What machine would you buy or use to stream Tidal I to that setup?

Must have been so much easier when all you had was a huge stack of different machines, and enough wiring to confuse NASA.

Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.

Millemissen
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Chris Townsend:
What are the best options for streaming Tidal at 1411Mbps? I'd love a touch screen Beosound 5, but they don't make them and it doesn't do Tidal anyway. The Moment just doesn't interest me.

I currently send Tidal via AirPlay. Mini IPad 4 to Apple TV 4 into a 7-55 feeding a pair of 9's. Soon to be 5's if I can. What machine would you buy or use to stream Tidal I to that setup?

When you are not interested in what the Moment offers you, if you want to pick the music to play yourself, you might have a look at this:

Install Roon (including Tidal) on a small computer/Mac Mini..., connect it to a digital coax-inon your BV7 (configure that input and start it using AV before the choosed source button):

 https://roonlabs.com/

Get yourself an iPad Pro and install the RoonRemote in kiosk mode:

https://appsto.re/dk/ZibF8.i

MM

 

 

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

jans
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jans replied on Sat, Apr 23 2016 9:46 AM
In the B&O ecosystem I don't know. Of setups which are significantly simpler and would allow for hi-res streaming.

Have you considered options outside B&O such as the Naim 272 streamer/pre-amp? Or maybe some Linn stuff? I think they do support Tidal.
Chris Townsend
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Would it offer noticeably better sound than AirPlay to Apple TV. As a novice I have no idea, but my suspicions are yes.

I have looked at other brands, yes. Could I get a stand for my iPad mini, that talks directly to my 7 or whatever replaces it(Sounds Hevenly????)

Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.

Millemissen
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You might also go oldschool and get yourself a second hand Squeezebox (Touch)........or one of the Squeeze-installs on a Raspberry PI:

 https://www.avforums.com/threads/building-a-raspberry-pi-squeezebox-player-for-%C2%A3100.1957747/

Or run it from a NAS.

The Squeezebox server (LMS) supports Tidal too:

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/201871191-Squeezebox

Connect that to the BV using digital coax and control it with the iPeng app on the iPad:

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/2015/10/28/ipeng-moves-on-to-version-9/

Lots of possibilities out there.

MM

 

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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