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Is it time B&O gave up on making audio systems?

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Paul W
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Paul W replied on Mon, Sep 21 2015 1:06 PM

TWG is totally correct, BUT, we've all been saying this for the last 5 years and nothing has happened. Still Made in China stuff. But at the end of the day, we as adults can vote or not with our wallets. Simple thing is, if you don't approve or like it, do as I do, and don't buy into it!

Millemissen
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koning:

Amen!

Halelujah!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Doonesbury
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Jonathan:

Maybe B&O could go back to components, but for the modern age... A new stacking system sold separately.

How about an amplifier with inputs, people could connect speakers or tv through an input?

A separate digital media player that stacks on top of the amplifier, with some sort of interface?

A separate hard drive to store music files or even media files?

These could be in cabinets that match and are designed to sit on top of one another, but if not all are purchased can still look good. Something like a Beosystem 6500 without a cassette deck or turntable still looks complete. 

 

Boy, do I agree with you here!  Although, rather than say "amplifier," it would be more accurate to write preamplifier (which is what I think you meant).

And it would be great if such a preamp were designed to accept input from such things as VCRs, cassettes, and record players, not just HDMI devices.

Also, make sure that the outputs include not only Powerlink but also RCA jacks for people to use their own power amp(s).

The final thing needed is something like Audyssey (or related) for setting up the audio in home theater systems.

It might be considered a "me too" product, but having the PL outputs would be a plus.

D

jc
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jc replied on Tue, Sep 22 2015 7:00 AM

I read a lot of conservative nostalgia here. I also like the old designs, but it's 2015, you can't be serious suggesting to introducing 'old' design-tricks like motorized trays back into new audio systems. For me, that is not what B&O stands for. And thank goodness we don't see such ugliness like stacking systems anymore...Luckily we left those dark days behind.

It has always been a strongpoint of B&o to invent and to come up with new and radical designs, and they in fact still do so. At least the Beosound 5 is a very original designed audiosytem even with some beautiful industrial machined tactile feedback. You need to get up from your lazy sofa position, but hey, wasn't that what you nostalgics liked so much in the old days? 

As said, I don't like the 'coffin' like design of the Moment, but perhaps that's a matter of taste. If you like it or not, Apple invented the tablet, and everywhere it has been accepted as a design- and functional standard; in cars as much as in the audio world. That won't change very soon. The Beosound 9000 is a piece of art, but it can only be so build around the CD-format. As such, it was a very original design from Lewis. But not all Lewis/B&O design were so special, I think most of us can recall some less memorable designs from the past. Only time will tell which designs are classics-to-be.

Chris Townsend
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"you can't be serious suggesting to introducing 'old' design-tricks like motorized trays back into new audio systems."

Seems to be still very popular with the Avants speakers!

Beovision 11-55, Beolab 2, Beosound 2(old Skool) Beolit 15, Beoplay A2 Active

jc
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jc replied on Tue, Sep 22 2015 8:27 AM

You're right. But I must say that I personally feel that it is somewhat artificial. I mean; the beovision 6 was a very characteristic B&O design without this mechanical trickery. Same with the 10/11.

The Avant is, design-wise, less characteristic, so there's were the movable speakers come in to the rescue. A 'good' design doesn't need that. As B&O is a representant of the modern minimalistic school, less is more I would say.

But to stay with the audio systems; I'm happy that B&O still make them, for people who don't want to be dependent on Apple products to listen to music. Perhaps they should redesign the basic idea of the Beosound 5 by adding everything that has been said lacking. Remote operation by a ipad for example. Or a detachable part/small tablet to use as a remote like someone said before. Than you have best of both worlds. I wouldn't drop such a unique design so easily if I were B&O. Perhaps the rectangular form can be 'modernized' by something round or oval, as the designs seem to move to a more female shape (market?) these days. A nice tribute to the BS 2 anyway..   

TWG
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TWG replied on Tue, Sep 22 2015 6:44 PM
jc:

If you like it or not, Apple invented the tablet, and everywhere it has been accepted as a design- and functional standard; in cars as much as in the audio world.

Sorry, but Apple did NOT invent the tablet computer. These devices existed years before the iPad was introduced. Most of them where Windows machines with surprisingly well working handwriting input. I remember a HP tablet on german CEBIT in 2003 or 2004 in Germany where the stuff let visitors hit(!) the screen with keys etc. to let them try to destroy or scratch them. Smile

And the iPod wheel was copied by Apple and invented by B&O in their Beocom phones.

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Tue, Sep 22 2015 6:47 PM

TWG:
jc:

If you like it or not, Apple invented the tablet, and everywhere it has been accepted as a design- and functional standard; in cars as much as in the audio world.

Sorry, but Apple did NOT invent the tablet computer. These devices existed years before the iPad was introduced. Most of them where Windows machines with surprisingly well working handwriting input. I remember a HP tablet on german CEBIT in 2003 or 2004 in Germany where the stuff let visitors hit(!) the screen with keys etc. to let them try to destroy or scratch them. Smile

And the iPod wheel was copied by Apple and invented by B&O in their Beocom phones.

So true..........

 

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Tue, Sep 22 2015 6:57 PM

B&o Audio system for 2016

 

Essence mkII + high end wall mounted monitor (size of BS5) were "what is paying now" is displayed. The essential B&o WOW factor!

Basic control by BS Essence remote; The real controlling is done by iOS or Android smartphone or tablet

 

PS: integrate monitor + remote and one has something similar to the BS5 

AnalogPlanet
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TWG:
Sorry, but Apple did NOT invent the tablet computer. These devices existed years before the iPad was introduced.

Let's be honest: Apple invented a successfull and functional tablet, first one ever that mass market loved and cared about. So this is effectively as they did invent it. Big Smile Did any of us had any tablet at home before iPad was launched? Not really, right?

OT: Essence Mk2 + external tablet... = almost Moment, although in a slightly differently designed shape.

So I say B&O's audio system for 2016 is *drumroll* Moment Mk2 with "sexier" visual tablet integration, updated basic tech specs and fully ironed-out SW (plus maybe some cool thing like electronic curtain on a tablet screen... ...ok, kidding on the last one).

AnalogPlanet
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jc:
Perhaps the rectangular form can be 'modernized' by something round or oval

But wouldn't that exactly defy your previous statement that in design less is more? Honestly, there is no other justification for oval/round than purely decorative, as your screen is always cut in rectangular shape by LCD screen manufacturers.

So that makes things more expensive, more difficult to find visual balance on the tablet side etc. I dislike poor quality of current "tablet" that's built in, but I find the shape appropriate.

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Tue, Sep 22 2015 7:52 PM

AnalogPlanet:
Let's be honest: Apple invented a successfull and functional tablet, first one ever that mass market loved and cared about. So this is effectively as they did invent it. Big Smile Did any of us had any tablet at home before iPad was launched? Not really, right?

What is your definition of inventing? 

Making a T-Ford in mass production doesn't mean Ford invented the automobile

AnalogPlanet
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We're into semantics now. Wink No, Ford did not invent the automobile, but they mass produced first relevant automobile and that automobile made all the change and impact in our civilization.

So if you really want to nitpick on my word choice then I withdraw "invent" and replace "figured out".

Millemissen
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AnalogPlanet:

Honestly, there is no other justification for oval/round than purely decorative, as your screen is always cut in rectangular shape by LCD screen manufacturers.

Maybe a curved one then  Big Smile  Big Smile

MM

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Tue, Sep 22 2015 8:18 PM

Millemissen:

AnalogPlanet:

Honestly, there is no other justification for oval/round than purely decorative, as your screen is always cut in rectangular shape by LCD screen manufacturers.

Maybe a curved one then  Big Smile  Big Smile

MM

Argh! I hate hate hate that! The only screens that should be curved are IMAX theaters. Anything smaller should be flat.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Tue, Sep 22 2015 8:26 PM

AnalogPlanet:

We're into semantics now. Wink No, Ford did not invent the automobile, but they mass produced first relevant automobile and that automobile made all the change and impact in our civilization.

So if you really want to nitpick on my word choice then I withdraw "invent" and replace "figured out".

Hey I asked you what your definition of invention is....... don't lecture me and accuse me of nit-picking

 

Steve_torque
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Maybe I am 'new school' but all I have had on show for 10+ years now, is the speakers - I've had; Linn streamer, playmaker now essence mk2, all tucked away nicely out of sight.

All my CDs are on my NAS and I use spotify. So the App is, and has been for while now, how I play music. Surely B&O are trying to offer a choice? Which makes them pretty unique I think. That's easier said than done of course - and it seems most people don't think the Moment offers them that option. I don't want to see my system, others do. I do like a good pair of speakers on show though!
Millemissen
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Jeff:

... Anything smaller should be flat.

Certainly agree with you on that - was just kidding.

Oh well - this is getting off-topic now ☺️

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Playdrv4me
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Playdrv4me replied on Wed, Sep 23 2015 10:09 AM

TWG:

I'm not only looking to B&O regarding audio equipment as other manufacturers do offer some great products, too.

If you see the raise of passion for audio quality again (e.g. Sony with its High Resolution Audio systems or Pioneer, Teac, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha network streamers etc.) I think that now it is especially a good time to develop an audio system. Not some half finished bad looking thing like the Beosound Moment, no, they need something with David Lewis style, class and substance that is reliable and of high quality!

Even Sony remembers that "Made in China" is not the holy grail and you find the proud "Made in Japan" sign even advertised on technology gadgets like the BSP-60 (which is a very nice companion by the way!).
They list "Made in Japan" as you can see on the (german) site, too:
http://eshop.sonymobile.com/de/buy/ok-smart-bluetooth-speaker-bsp60/

Have a look at the Sony HAP-Z1es. Built like a tank, easy, FAST operation, accompanied by a working(!) app on a tablet (iOS, Android). No computer required.
http://www.sony.com/electronics/audio-components/hap-z1es


Or the Astell & Kern mobile highend players...
there are enough signs that the manufacturers invest into quality audio again and I love it! We had too much cheap plastic crap that didn't work as expected and this new audio quality wave is a welcome refreshment!


Imagine a Beosound 3000 Bluray-Player system, a Beosound 9000 with CD/WAV/MP3/Bluetooth/DLNA/Airplay/WISA or a Beocenter 9500 where you can hide your phone under a motorised tray etc.
There are endless possibilities to make a statement in the market.

But Bang & Olufsen should NOT again deliver a Made in China *** like the Beosound 3 that'll die unbelievable early!
There should still be a FREE repair program for all Beosound 3 owners! :-)

So, yes, B&O should keep going and deliver an audio system that impresses, make a statement with great design and very high quality and it should be reliable again and work for 30 years like the old classics do (with servicing)!

Applause!!

Look. Here's the harsh reality about audio in 2015. The middle ground that B&O used to occupy in the 1970s, 80s and 90s simply no longer exists. The existence of portable media formats that can reside on a computer chip the size of your finger nail mean that audio has uniquely gone in two separate directions... 

"Lifestyle" electronics like bluetooth portable speakers, phones, and even the rapidly dying MP3 player... Consider the "high end" of this "lifestyle" category to be things like the Beoplay A9.

Then, after Lifestyle electronics you jump to truly *high end* audio with separates (it's very odd to me that there are people who think separates systems are "ugly" but to each their own)... i.e. McIntosh, Linn, Naim, NAD, B&W, Wilson Audio, Magico, Martin Logan, ARCAM and on and on. Many of these companies are WELL known for building their products to ultra high standards in their respective countries, or at least for having a top of the line series which is made in their respective countries.

As TWG mentioned, Sony has recently re-entered the high end fray with the HAP players, the ultra high end SS-AR1 and AR2 speakers and various other devices. 

So the truth is that if B&O really want to enter a market with a considerable amount of profit and the ability to create truly high end audio systems again, this market is where it's going to be. I for one would be ecstatic to see another system like the 7000, but modernized (Think NAD M12 Preamp and M22 amp, and take it to another level in whatever way B&O can). No harm in still including a high quality compact disc/UHD bluray/SACD whatever transport at this juncture either. Then for link room type situations you can take the Devialet example and run with that. A simple but extremely elegant system that can run in a link room *or* integration with PLAY line devices for linked rooms, they're already on track for this. Then create beautiful apps which can run all of this equipment from industry standard tablets, rather than wasting resources and costs on repurposing cheap ass Android tablet components in a pretty box. 

Thing is, I've had everything. BeoLab 5s, B&W 802 Diamonds, B&W Nautilus 803, McIntosh MC601 amplifiers, MAC6700 receiver, D100 preamp, C2300 preamp, Pioneer, JBL, almost every modern B&O speaker... yada yada yada... Do you know what the one system is that never leaves? Perhaps because I don't feel the resale would be worth it, or perhaps moreso because the performance still astonishes me to this day...

Our BeoLab Penta IIIs and Beocenter 9500. In almost every way, these two are almost everything a person could ask for. The Pentas often put other speakers costing thousands more, INCLUDING in some aspects the BeoLab 5s to shame. They're beautiful, the whole system is pure sex appeal. But the thing is, this system is what "lifestyle" electronics looked like in the 1980s/90s. This category is GONE. People have either moved UPmarket to separates or DOWNmarket to the lifestyle type systems I mentioned above. B&O is staring down the barrel at a real opportunity here. Why do you think the PLAY line has been so successful? They should keep fostering PLAY for the "low end" of the lifestyle crowd, and go back to the drawing board with their OWN spin on separates for the "high end" crowd. 

Dare I say, for the "high end" crowd another thing that may be a tough pill to swallow is that perhaps it's time to leave powered speakers behind. Who else is doing this with any measure of success anymore? I can name ONE manufacturer off the top of my head and no one even thinks about them in any real serious conversation about high end audio, and that's Meridian. But Meridian is a MUCH smaller outfit than B&O in general, and has never gone after all the markets that B&O has. Yet on the flip side of this argument, companies like Rowland and NAD have proven that customers, almost amusingly, WILL buy Class D or ICEPower powered standalone amps! Aside from my Pentas, the only other speaker system that has left a permanent impression on me is the B&W Diamond series. And not even the biggest ones, I would like to own a pair of B&W 804 Diamonds at some point as they just do everything right for me and are one of the few that exceed my Pentas in *most* categories. The 802 Diamonds were just too damn big, bulky, and expensive. The performance/price ratio just wasn't there. Now that the Diamond D3 is out (and they're freaking gorgeous), the D2 Diamonds will get even cheaper... But I digress... B&O needs to change up their game and stop playing around with this Made in China crap UNLESS it's in the PLAY line where that is acceptable. Otherwise, there's not a lot of future for the company, I am sorry to say.

Aussie Michael
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Can you use the beomusic app with the avant? It's an NL product
StUrrock
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StUrrock replied on Wed, Sep 23 2015 10:26 AM
If you can't make a product that won't stream BBC radio then it's time to give up!
TWG
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TWG replied on Wed, Sep 23 2015 4:34 PM
completely round/circular displays exist: Have a look at:

- LG Watch R

- LG Watch Urbane

- LG Watch urbane LTE (such a great design!)

- Samsung Galaxy Gear S2 watch

- Huawei Smartwatch

Imagine the Essence wheel with a round white background monochrome LCD and still mechanical 4 buttons. The display could be on all day like on the Beo 4 as long as the system is on. It should only display artist, track name, selected source, room etc. the display should be backlit in red and it should have a small red standby Led and a green timer Led. The red backlight should be activated manually AND automatically with a distance and light sensor so that it goes on when you are approaching in front of the remote and should slowly fade out if the sensor doesnt't see you anymore. The sources and functions should be switchable and accessible without reprogramming the remote like it's required now! this means that I should be able to select "Light" during playback, select a light or a scene, switch it on/off or dim it with the wheel and than switch back to into the "now playing" mode.

all of these functions are old stuff and could easily be integrated by Bang & Olufsen!

Millemissen
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TWG:

all of these functions are old stuff and could easily be integrated by Bang & Olufsen!

But they did not!

They wanted to keep things simple - to include only the essence of things needed.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

TWG
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TWG replied on Wed, Sep 23 2015 6:39 PM
i know... but me personally I would love that improved version of an Essence or general B&O remote. It could be made with easy and simple usability, too. So: Win-Win for both sides, the people who only like the simple pure remote (display should be able to be switched off) or the people who want more control and feedback. Smile

jc
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jc replied on Wed, Sep 23 2015 9:32 PM

Talking about the originality of Apple design; it is common knowledge that Apple got much of it's 'inspiration' from Braun designs/ Dieter Rams etc. The similarities between Apple and B&O of course are very clear to me too. Look at the use of aluminium.

But Apple must be credited for the commercial successful marketing of design-principles in the computer-scene. That's what Americans in general always do best; marketing, not design and invention, which are more 'European' strongpoints. I myself bought Apple products because they were simply the only ones that got their priorities right. Something as simple as building a PC in one piece, without screen and computer separated, and beautiful too. It's exactly the reason I still think that B&O still holds an unique position in TV/HIFi . They are simply the only real 'interior-design' company in the business. They had a lot of difficulties to catch up with digital techniques, but things are already getting better in that respect.

 

StUrrock
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StUrrock replied on Wed, Sep 23 2015 11:07 PM

I love reading all your posts.

but back to the original post;

Is it time B&O gave up on making audio systems?

Let us ask a small focus group, business graduates like Mr Mantoni might appreciate this.

For myself and my friends who own the same system, the  BeoSound Moment, our simple desire is to listen to BBC radio without constant dropouts. 

All those who experience dropouts would probably answer a resoundng YES they should give up!

StUrrock
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StUrrock replied on Wed, Sep 23 2015 11:16 PM

Playdrv4me:

TWG:

I'm not only looking to B&O regarding audio equipment as other manufacturers do offer some great products, too.

If you see the raise of passion for audio quality again (e.g. Sony with its High Resolution Audio systems or Pioneer, Teac, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha network streamers etc.) I think that now it is especially a good time to develop an audio system. Not some half finished bad looking thing like the Beosound Moment, no, they need something with David Lewis style, class and substance that is reliable and of high quality!

Even Sony remembers that "Made in China" is not the holy grail and you find the proud "Made in Japan" sign even advertised on technology gadgets like the BSP-60 (which is a very nice companion by the way!).
They list "Made in Japan" as you can see on the (german) site, too:
http://eshop.sonymobile.com/de/buy/ok-smart-bluetooth-speaker-bsp60/

Have a look at the Sony HAP-Z1es. Built like a tank, easy, FAST operation, accompanied by a working(!) app on a tablet (iOS, Android). No computer required.
http://www.sony.com/electronics/audio-components/hap-z1es


Or the Astell & Kern mobile highend players...
there are enough signs that the manufacturers invest into quality audio again and I love it! We had too much cheap plastic crap that didn't work as expected and this new audio quality wave is a welcome refreshment!


Imagine a Beosound 3000 Bluray-Player system, a Beosound 9000 with CD/WAV/MP3/Bluetooth/DLNA/Airplay/WISA or a Beocenter 9500 where you can hide your phone under a motorised tray etc.
There are endless possibilities to make a statement in the market.

But Bang & Olufsen should NOT again deliver a Made in China *** like the Beosound 3 that'll die unbelievable early!
There should still be a FREE repair program for all Beosound 3 owners! :-)

So, yes, B&O should keep going and deliver an audio system that impresses, make a statement with great design and very high quality and it should be reliable again and work for 30 years like the old classics do (with servicing)!

Applause!!

Look. Here's the harsh reality about audio in 2015. The middle ground that B&O used to occupy in the 1970s, 80s and 90s simply no longer exists. The existence of portable media formats that can reside on a computer chip the size of your finger nail mean that audio has uniquely gone in two separate directions... 

"Lifestyle" electronics like bluetooth portable speakers, phones, and even the rapidly dying MP3 player... Consider the "high end" of this "lifestyle" category to be things like the Beoplay A9.

Then, after Lifestyle electronics you jump to truly *high end* audio with separates (it's very odd to me that there are people who think separates systems are "ugly" but to each their own)... i.e. McIntosh, Linn, Naim, NAD, B&W, Wilson Audio, Magico, Martin Logan, ARCAM and on and on. Many of these companies are WELL known for building their products to ultra high standards in their respective countries, or at least for having a top of the line series which is made in their respective countries.

As TWG mentioned, Sony has recently re-entered the high end fray with the HAP players, the ultra high end SS-AR1 and AR2 speakers and various other devices. 

So the truth is that if B&O really want to enter a market with a considerable amount of profit and the ability to create truly high end audio systems again, this market is where it's going to be. I for one would be ecstatic to see another system like the 7000, but modernized (Think NAD M12 Preamp and M22 amp, and take it to another level in whatever way B&O can). No harm in still including a high quality compact disc/UHD bluray/SACD whatever transport at this juncture either. Then for link room type situations you can take the Devialet example and run with that. A simple but extremely elegant system that can run in a link room *or* integration with PLAY line devices for linked rooms, they're already on track for this. Then create beautiful apps which can run all of this equipment from industry standard tablets, rather than wasting resources and costs on repurposing cheap ass Android tablet components in a pretty box. 

Thing is, I've had everything. BeoLab 5s, B&W 802 Diamonds, B&W Nautilus 803, McIntosh MC601 amplifiers, MAC6700 receiver, D100 preamp, C2300 preamp, Pioneer, JBL, almost every modern B&O speaker... yada yada yada... Do you know what the one system is that never leaves? Perhaps because I don't feel the resale would be worth it, or perhaps moreso because the performance still astonishes me to this day...

Our BeoLab Penta IIIs and Beocenter 9500. In almost every way, these two are almost everything a person could ask for. The Pentas often put other speakers costing thousands more, INCLUDING in some aspects the BeoLab 5s to shame. They're beautiful, the whole system is pure sex appeal. But the thing is, this system is what "lifestyle" electronics looked like in the 1980s/90s. This category is GONE. People have either moved UPmarket to separates or DOWNmarket to the lifestyle type systems I mentioned above. B&O is staring down the barrel at a real opportunity here. Why do you think the PLAY line has been so successful? They should keep fostering PLAY for the "low end" of the lifestyle crowd, and go back to the drawing board with their OWN spin on separates for the "high end" crowd. 

Dare I say, for the "high end" crowd another thing that may be a tough pill to swallow is that perhaps it's time to leave powered speakers behind. Who else is doing this with any measure of success anymore? I can name ONE manufacturer off the top of my head and no one even thinks about them in any real serious conversation about high end audio, and that's Meridian. But Meridian is a MUCH smaller outfit than B&O in general, and has never gone after all the markets that B&O has. Yet on the flip side of this argument, companies like Rowland and NAD have proven that customers, almost amusingly, WILL buy Class D or ICEPower powered standalone amps! Aside from my Pentas, the only other speaker system that has left a permanent impression on me is the B&W Diamond series. And not even the biggest ones, I would like to own a pair of B&W 804 Diamonds at some point as they just do everything right for me and are one of the few that exceed my Pentas in *most* categories. The 802 Diamonds were just too damn big, bulky, and expensive. The performance/price ratio just wasn't there. Now that the Diamond D3 is out (and they're freaking gorgeous), the D2 Diamonds will get even cheaper... But I digress... B&O needs to change up their game and stop playing around with this Made in China crap UNLESS it's in the PLAY line where that is acceptable. Otherwise, there's not a lot of future for the company, I am sorry to say.

One of the best, most thought provoking posts, I have read on this forum for a long time thank you.

Chris Townsend
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This is what I want. But also with access to Apple Music/Spotify etc. And why not have a Bluray ripper as opposed to just CD.

An all in one simple to use, unique entertainment centre. Just like the old Beocentres with tapes/CDs etc

https://www.meridian-audio.com/products/meridian-sooloos/control-15/

Beovision 11-55, Beolab 2, Beosound 2(old Skool) Beolit 15, Beoplay A2 Active

Paul W
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Paul W replied on Thu, Sep 24 2015 2:25 AM

They couldn't fit a Blu-Ray ripper Chris, severe copyright issues with Hollywood there.

Guys, it's time to move on with these day dreams of old B&O systems. If you research why Tue Montani dropped the old stuff 9000, 3200, there answer is in my reports online, back then, they weren't selling. This forum is far too tiny to represent a market for B&O. You guys really must wake up that everything has changed. The DNA of B&O is genetically modified now as the old guys have died, probably the majority pf the old B&O staff have died. It's not the company that you remember. It's a new era. It's like comparing what your Great Grandad once died to a guy in his 30s. Far far different. 

Times have moved on, and so must you. Don't rely on people and companies to do things and then be disappointed. Instead, by creative and use your own skills to create.

TWG
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TWG replied on Thu, Sep 24 2015 6:38 AM

Paul W:

They couldn't fit a Blu-Ray ripper Chris, severe copyright issues with Hollywood there.



DVD - / BluRay-Ripper's are absolutely possible! Have a look at the Kaleidescape system!

http://www.kaleidescape.com/

 

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Normann replied on Thu, Sep 24 2015 7:21 AM

Paul W:

They couldn't fit a Blu-Ray ripper Chris, severe copyright issues with Hollywood there.

Guys, it's time to move on with these day dreams of old B&O systems. If you research why Tue Montani dropped the old stuff 9000, 3200, there answer is in my reports online, back then, they weren't selling. This forum is far too tiny to represent a market for B&O. You guys really must wake up that everything has changed. The DNA of B&O is genetically modified now as the old guys have died, probably the majority pf the old B&O staff have died. It's not the company that you remember. It's a new era. It's like comparing what your Great Grandad once died to a guy in his 30s. Far far different. 

Times have moved on, and so must you. Don't rely on people and companies to do things and then be disappointed. Instead, by creative and use your own skills to create.

Big SmileYes - thumbs up

Playdrv4me
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StUrrock:

Playdrv4me:

TWG:

I'm not only looking to B&O regarding audio equipment as other manufacturers do offer some great products, too.

If you see the raise of passion for audio quality again (e.g. Sony with its High Resolution Audio systems or Pioneer, Teac, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha network streamers etc.) I think that now it is especially a good time to develop an audio system. Not some half finished bad looking thing like the Beosound Moment, no, they need something with David Lewis style, class and substance that is reliable and of high quality!

Even Sony remembers that "Made in China" is not the holy grail and you find the proud "Made in Japan" sign even advertised on technology gadgets like the BSP-60 (which is a very nice companion by the way!).
They list "Made in Japan" as you can see on the (german) site, too:
http://eshop.sonymobile.com/de/buy/ok-smart-bluetooth-speaker-bsp60/

Have a look at the Sony HAP-Z1es. Built like a tank, easy, FAST operation, accompanied by a working(!) app on a tablet (iOS, Android). No computer required.
http://www.sony.com/electronics/audio-components/hap-z1es


Or the Astell & Kern mobile highend players...
there are enough signs that the manufacturers invest into quality audio again and I love it! We had too much cheap plastic crap that didn't work as expected and this new audio quality wave is a welcome refreshment!


Imagine a Beosound 3000 Bluray-Player system, a Beosound 9000 with CD/WAV/MP3/Bluetooth/DLNA/Airplay/WISA or a Beocenter 9500 where you can hide your phone under a motorised tray etc.
There are endless possibilities to make a statement in the market.

But Bang & Olufsen should NOT again deliver a Made in China *** like the Beosound 3 that'll die unbelievable early!
There should still be a FREE repair program for all Beosound 3 owners! :-)

So, yes, B&O should keep going and deliver an audio system that impresses, make a statement with great design and very high quality and it should be reliable again and work for 30 years like the old classics do (with servicing)!

Applause!!

Look. Here's the harsh reality about audio in 2015. The middle ground that B&O used to occupy in the 1970s, 80s and 90s simply no longer exists. The existence of portable media formats that can reside on a computer chip the size of your finger nail mean that audio has uniquely gone in two separate directions... 

"Lifestyle" electronics like bluetooth portable speakers, phones, and even the rapidly dying MP3 player... Consider the "high end" of this "lifestyle" category to be things like the Beoplay A9.

Then, after Lifestyle electronics you jump to truly *high end* audio with separates (it's very odd to me that there are people who think separates systems are "ugly" but to each their own)... i.e. McIntosh, Linn, Naim, NAD, B&W, Wilson Audio, Magico, Martin Logan, ARCAM and on and on. Many of these companies are WELL known for building their products to ultra high standards in their respective countries, or at least for having a top of the line series which is made in their respective countries.

As TWG mentioned, Sony has recently re-entered the high end fray with the HAP players, the ultra high end SS-AR1 and AR2 speakers and various other devices. 

So the truth is that if B&O really want to enter a market with a considerable amount of profit and the ability to create truly high end audio systems again, this market is where it's going to be. I for one would be ecstatic to see another system like the 7000, but modernized (Think NAD M12 Preamp and M22 amp, and take it to another level in whatever way B&O can). No harm in still including a high quality compact disc/UHD bluray/SACD whatever transport at this juncture either. Then for link room type situations you can take the Devialet example and run with that. A simple but extremely elegant system that can run in a link room *or* integration with PLAY line devices for linked rooms, they're already on track for this. Then create beautiful apps which can run all of this equipment from industry standard tablets, rather than wasting resources and costs on repurposing cheap ass Android tablet components in a pretty box. 

Thing is, I've had everything. BeoLab 5s, B&W 802 Diamonds, B&W Nautilus 803, McIntosh MC601 amplifiers, MAC6700 receiver, D100 preamp, C2300 preamp, Pioneer, JBL, almost every modern B&O speaker... yada yada yada... Do you know what the one system is that never leaves? Perhaps because I don't feel the resale would be worth it, or perhaps moreso because the performance still astonishes me to this day...

Our BeoLab Penta IIIs and Beocenter 9500. In almost every way, these two are almost everything a person could ask for. The Pentas often put other speakers costing thousands more, INCLUDING in some aspects the BeoLab 5s to shame. They're beautiful, the whole system is pure sex appeal. But the thing is, this system is what "lifestyle" electronics looked like in the 1980s/90s. This category is GONE. People have either moved UPmarket to separates or DOWNmarket to the lifestyle type systems I mentioned above. B&O is staring down the barrel at a real opportunity here. Why do you think the PLAY line has been so successful? They should keep fostering PLAY for the "low end" of the lifestyle crowd, and go back to the drawing board with their OWN spin on separates for the "high end" crowd. 

Dare I say, for the "high end" crowd another thing that may be a tough pill to swallow is that perhaps it's time to leave powered speakers behind. Who else is doing this with any measure of success anymore? I can name ONE manufacturer off the top of my head and no one even thinks about them in any real serious conversation about high end audio, and that's Meridian. But Meridian is a MUCH smaller outfit than B&O in general, and has never gone after all the markets that B&O has. Yet on the flip side of this argument, companies like Rowland and NAD have proven that customers, almost amusingly, WILL buy Class D or ICEPower powered standalone amps! Aside from my Pentas, the only other speaker system that has left a permanent impression on me is the B&W Diamond series. And not even the biggest ones, I would like to own a pair of B&W 804 Diamonds at some point as they just do everything right for me and are one of the few that exceed my Pentas in *most* categories. The 802 Diamonds were just too damn big, bulky, and expensive. The performance/price ratio just wasn't there. Now that the Diamond D3 is out (and they're freaking gorgeous), the D2 Diamonds will get even cheaper... But I digress... B&O needs to change up their game and stop playing around with this Made in China crap UNLESS it's in the PLAY line where that is acceptable. Otherwise, there's not a lot of future for the company, I am sorry to say.

One of the best, most thought provoking posts, I have read on this forum for a long time thank you.

You are quite welcome :) I enjoy these discussions. 

jc
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jc replied on Thu, Sep 24 2015 7:55 AM

"It's not the company you remember" 

Of course times change, and as people grow old the staff working at a company change over time.

But the essential things that doesn't change are;

1- Music and enjoying music

2- Designing a product that is both beautiful and functional and onorthodox

Todays' staff at B&O therefore have to deal with more or less the same essentials as the old staff did. And despite all the moaning here, they still come up with some nice designs. Technical changes always did take place, in the old days there were revolutions like going from Vinyl to CD's, that didn't prevent the invention of an icon like the BS 9000. Don't forget that B&O products in the old days did not always live up to the partly imaginary superhigh standards that are expected at this forum. How good were the speakers in the 60's and 70's? How special and superb were most of the beomasters back then? Some were, but most were just doing their job, without always being so cutting edge like some think they were. Don't forget that a much appraised beocenter 9500 was a sort of end-stage of years of upgrading and gradual change of the essential Jensen design. And what did they do? The stripped it down to the 9300...Like what they did going from beogram 4000 to 4002. And the later turntables from the now-so-famous stacking systems weren't so good too, and certainly didn't live up to the standards set by a 4000, or 8000.

It wasn't all sunshine in the old days, when the old B&O still was around... 

 

Andrew
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Andrew replied on Thu, Sep 24 2015 11:43 AM

I think they have it right - the trend these days is to conceal everything and have speakers and TVs on display - the Moment and Essence are beautiful in their own right and perfect for the modern day.

I cant remember the last time I saw a lifestyle magazine featuring a stack system in an interior - not that that's wrong, just that tastes and fashions have changed and B&O have taken that onboard. Solid state products are bound to last much longer and be more reliable - so innovation will be key to keep people upgrading - difficult to predict what the future will bring.

Does a product have to state where it is made? why not just take off the Made in China sticker and replace it with "by appointment to the royal danish court" ? Some of the magic, for me at least, of B&O was the fact that it was made in Denmark - so it seemed special. 

I agree that not all of the old stuff was particularly brilliant or even sounded that good, but it had character and charm and you felt you were buying something rather special.

Andrew
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Andrew replied on Thu, Sep 24 2015 11:43 AM

I think they have it right - the trend these days is to conceal everything and have speakers and TVs on display - the Moment and Essence are beautiful in their own right and perfect for the modern day.

I cant remember the last time I saw a lifestyle magazine featuring a stack system in an interior - not that that's wrong, just that tastes and fashions have changed and B&O have taken that onboard. Solid state products are bound to last much longer and be more reliable - so innovation will be key to keep people upgrading - difficult to predict what the future will bring.

Does a product have to state where it is made? why not just take off the Made in China sticker and replace it with "by appointment to the royal danish court" ? Some of the magic, for me at least, of B&O was the fact that it was made in Denmark - so it seemed special. 

I agree that not all of the old stuff was particularly brilliant or even sounded that good, but it had character and charm and you felt you were buying something rather special.

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I could have recently spent less on a more technically advanced camera made in China. Thankfully I spent more on a beautiful piece of engineering, that's still made in Germany.

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Millemissen
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'Made in Germany' isn't anymore, what it used to be - as you probably are aware of 😒

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

AnalogPlanet
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I think you are very much right MM when it comes to huge factories like VW (for example), but smaller productions - almost manufacture like - as Leica are still good I believe from the perspective of the workforce profile. If that's what you've meant.

Either way, Chris: beauty! I bet it is also a superb tactile feeling. *dreamy*

Millemissen
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As long as there is no special software....for testers!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Chris Townsend
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AnalogPlanet:

I think you are very much right MM when it comes to huge factories like VW (for example), but smaller productions - almost manufacture like - as Leica are still good I believe from the perspective of the workforce profile. If that's what you've meant.

Either way, Chris: beauty! I bet it is also a superb tactile feeling. *dreamy*

It does thanks.

But then again, the iPhone isn't bad either

The fact is, there are still some European countries that make heritage goods that are still worth buying into. Bang and O,unseen is still one of them, but us getting less so. I had one of the first Walkmans and it had Made in Japan proudly written on it. And I was proud it did, it was fantastic.

Leica ironically also have a rebadged range of Panasonic's as their cheaper range, as part of their lens deal. But they still have a core of German made cameras, the M range which goes back to the 60's I think. And they are still selling very well.

Could Bang and Olufsen do this and how. Porsche do it, Rolex do it, Omega Leica etc etc etc

Beovision 11-55, Beolab 2, Beosound 2(old Skool) Beolit 15, Beoplay A2 Active

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